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Why Clifford is so important.....

Cain was by far and away the biggest disappointment. We needed a strong N/S runner that could break tackles. Watching FR year, he had it. Something happened with that injury. Lee is average RB with some moves but his speed is practically laughable. Ford was a recruiting miss. I am waiting on portal for Devyn.
Wouldn't give up on Cain. If you watch the Outback replay, you'll see the old Noah begin to emerge. The kid had a major foot injury which made him leery of planting that foot, IMO. If you're going to be a fall-forward RB, ya gotta be able to plant.
 
That's how I see it as well, although if Clifford had left I believe Franklin would not name a starter until game week #1 next Fall. And even if there were only Allar and Pribula entering next Summer Franklin could find a portal QB (not a highly sought after QB) to have 3 QB's for the Fall. But Veilleux may have stayed anyway.

Clifford is not accurate, and that is after starting 3 years. He also does not have nearly the pocket escape-ability that Picket does. Picket's ability to escape sacks due to his vision, awareness, decision making, and quickness is unique among college QB's. In one of the PSU/Pitt games I believe PSU sacked Picket twice, but my impression was that PSU should have gotten him at least 5 more times. Clifford takes far too many sacks, at least some of which he could avoid by either moving out of the pocket or throwing the ball away. And this after starting 3 years. Clifford is also a very very poor deep ball passer, consistently over throwing over 50% of deep passes to very open WR's, which is abysmal. Even underthrown balls versus single coverage can turn into positive plays as the WR usually has a better track on the ball to make the catch and underthrown balls do draw some PI penalties. As one of the NFL draft analysts poi//nted out, Clifford overthrew 3 balls in just one of the games this season to Dotson that would have resulted in over 150 yards of additional yardage to Dotson's season and 3 more TD's, where Dotson was 5 yards or more behind the coverage.

And although I hate to see talented player transfer out of PSU, it is the world we live in now. So believing that Veilleux, Allar and Pribula will all be at PSU for the 2024 season is a pipe dream, and it is probably likely that the 3 of them won't all be at PSU in 2023. Franklin and Yurcich will be recruiting 1 or 2 QB's in each recruiting class and if they get in a jam going to the portal, just like every top 30 team will be doing.

And the up side of a young QB playing in 2022 would be the development of that QB and a chance to have a QB much better than Clifford, with experience, going into 2023. Some might say why do you believe that young QB will be better than Clifford? Well, because I have seen enough of Clifford to believe he is not accurate enough to win BIG games, and he does not have the decision making to pull out tough games against other great teams, as we have seen the last 3 years. Time to develop the next great PSU QB, under more consistent QB coaching, from the 3 highly recruited and talented young QB's now on the roster......... JMO, sorry for the ramble...
Good points. IMO, the bottom line re Clifford is pretty simple: a)his deficiencies aren't going away in his fifth season, and b)opposing DC's have figured out that pressure accentuates them. Hard to see much light at the end of that tunnel.
 
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Not sure who Wonder Boy is...if it's CV, he's looked good in limited action. Why not give him some reps against good competition. What do you have to lose?
He (CV) should have played more in the bowl game and that is my major concern with Franklin and MY. I just don't see anyone else getting a chance to get quality time and reps unless Clifford is hurt.
 
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Wouldn't give up on Cain. If you watch the Outback replay, you'll see the old Noah begin to emerge. The kid had a major foot injury which made him leery of planting that foot, IMO. If you're going to be a fall-forward RB, ya gotta be able to plant.
He did look much better in the bowl game which brings me to my next question...why did we abandon the run when it was working as well as it had all season? Oh thats right it wasn't a snowy bilzzard..(ok that last part was sarcasm)
 
Clifford has hit his ceiling and he is not going to get better. Look at how he performed in the Outback Bowl against an average team (Arkansas was not a good defensive team).
Not sure how you come to this conclusion. Another year with Mike Yurcich, one of the guys who coached up Justin Fields at OSU, and Clifford should be able to polish his game. I've seen QB's improve a ton during their last season at PSU (Tony Sacca, Matt McGloin, Todd Blackledge back in the day) when they have the right coaches.

Clifford can win games for us just by being a leader... keep in mind, he's had four different offensive coordinators since coming to HV and had no run game to fall back on the last two seasons.
 
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Not sure who Wonder Boy is...if it's CV, he's looked good in limited action. Why not give him some reps against good competition. What do you have to lose?
Caleb Williams in the Wonder Boy.

What do you have to lose? A lot.
 
I respect your opinion on Clifford, but Picket always had the ability to extend plays, as was evident in the last PSU/Pitt game. And Picket improved year to year, versus Clifford's regression, or at least failure to improve, in results and decision making.

And I believe you are being unfair to Allar. If he is indeed the #1 QB coming out of H.S., with the way QB's coming out have had improved coaching and the top one's have hit the ground running, I don't see how discounting the probability that Allar could succeed is fair. Look at what Williams did at OK, what the top QB's have done in their first seasons at Clemson, Bama,..... And even without Clifford, the competition among Veilleux, Allar, and Pribula this Spring and into Summer would have made all 3 better. Really, I would have expected Veilleux to win that battle - he did a great job in his limited audition and he showed accuracy beyond what Clifford has shown in 3 years.

We'll just have to agree to disagree and hope Clifford improves. If not I hope he is on a short leash....
All this love for Clifford is laughable. Can he win us some games? Yes. Is he able to win us big games in the clutch? No. Simple as that. Not sure what he brings us that Villeaux cannot do with another year under his belt or Allar or even Pribula. I know Allar is untested as a true Freshman but you don't get to be the #1 QB in the nation for no reason. He also faced good HS competition.

It would have been refreshing to have an off season with 3 young QBs all hungry to win a starter role. Now they are all playing for the #1 backup role barring some unforeseen turn of events. This will inhibit their development.

Back to Clifford, he has bad offensive lines and that has not helped but a really good QB can elevate above that. Maybe not completely to a point of leading a team to a NC but certainly would do better than Clifford. His accuracy, decision making and pocket presence is nowhere near where we need it to be after so many years in the program. Not sure what people expect out of him at this point. It is what it is. IF we get a great offensive line with a powerhouse running game then he would perform well but so would CV, Allar and Pribula.

At the end of 2022 we will lose at least one of the three between Allar, CV and Pribula. I know the coaches know this. We may very well lose two guys as no one wants to be a backup to a guy the same age or certainly younger than they are.

Finally, Pribula is the wildcard in all this. PA kid grew up loving PSU. There was talk of a position change not sure about that and I know just conjecture at this stage. I am anxious to see him compete and hope he gets a fair shot
 
We went 11-2 and won Cotton Bowl with Clifford. Why? I think a dominant running game with Brown had a lot to do with it. If you are relying on Clifford to make all the throws, play mistake free, ad-hoc runs, play through injuries to win games..that is recipe for disaster for any QB. We are asking too much of him.
It's easier for fans to just throw all the blame on the QB. Aside from not having a competent run game and playing through injuries as you mentioned, he was working with his 3rd OC in 3 years this past season.

I have high expectations for Allar, but I think it's hilarious fans want to watch an 18-year-old start off his career by going to Purdue, Auburn, and Michigan and also playing Ohio state all within his first 6 collegiate games. For every time that someone tells me that PSU won't be "elite" unit it has an elite QB, I'll likely be reminding them that Stetson Bennet was a National Champion after Monday night.
 
Stetson Bennet was a National Champion after Monday night.

Crazy story. 5'11 Walk-on at UGA, transfers to community college, transfers back to UGA after Fields leaves only to see highly touted JT Daniels transfer in. Good for him. Having a elite DL and OL matters more than anything. You need a QB that is protected and accurate - not elite cannon arm or all world speed. All those times we lost to OSU after leading in 4th - could not run ball on their DL and could not generate pressure with their OL. End of story.
 
It's easier for fans to just throw all the blame on the QB. Aside from not having a competent run game and playing through injuries as you mentioned, he was working with his 3rd OC in 3 years this past season.

I have high expectations for Allar, but I think it's hilarious fans want to watch an 18-year-old start off his career by going to Purdue, Auburn, and Michigan and also playing Ohio state all within his first 6 collegiate games. For every time that someone tells me that PSU won't be "elite" unit it has an elite QB, I'll likely be reminding them that Stetson Bennet was a National Champion after Monday night.
Well said.

Football has been full of 5* QBs going nowhere because they didn't have the supporting pieces they needed. Granted, I think Allar will have solid WRs and a stud RB, but the OL is the obvious missing piece. I suspect he'll be a great QB regardless, but we're aiming for championships here.....and we're not getting over the hump without far better line play.
 
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It's easier for fans to just throw all the blame on the QB. Aside from not having a competent run game and playing through injuries as you mentioned, he was working with his 3rd OC in 3 years this past season.

I have high expectations for Allar, but I think it's hilarious fans want to watch an 18-year-old start off his career by going to Purdue, Auburn, and Michigan and also playing Ohio state all within his first 6 collegiate games. For every time that someone tells me that PSU won't be "elite" unit it has an elite QB, I'll likely be reminding them that Stetson Bennet was a National Champion after Monday night.
Was it because he was working with his 3rd OC that he overthrows a wide open TE for a TD or can't see a guy wide open for a score and instead throws into coverage for a pick in the endzone to seal our fate. Just a couple highlights from the Outback Bowl that we had a good shot winning with a competent QB.

Not all the blame is on Clifford but he is not performing to expectations. Do we need a better O-Line? Of course! Do we need better LBs besides Jacobs? Hell Yes! This is about the leader of your team, the field general, the guy who will make it happen in the clutch. The bottom line is he is not going to lead us to more wins than CV or Allar could. Do you really think he goes into Auburn and gets us a W? Wins at scUM? Pulls us out a W against OHowIHate? With his track record I say no. Who says Allar could not start and beat Purdue? Who cares that he is a true Frosh, it is all about talent and confidence. Sure experience is good but overrated in this case with Clifford. The JoePa 1970's thinking is on line 1. We have seen this bad movie. This kind of traditional stuck in the mud thinking that an average 6th year guy is best for PSU football is killing us right now. We need innovative, different thinking all over.
 
I think a lot of folks are going to be shocked to find out that most of the offensive line problems can be fundamentally traced to the quarterback.
Here is why:
1. In 2019 nobody knew who the quarterback was. He had a good, not great, season. The team was carried to double digit wins by the cast.....Parsons, Gross-Matos, Hamler, Dotson, Freiermuth & Journey. That is an elite supporting cast that encompassed at least 4 players who could have arguable claimed to be the best in the entire country at their position in Brown, Parsons, Freier & Matos. That's elite. That's 4 guys that were at a minimum top 5 in the country at their respective position.
2. Teams, especially the like talented ones, figured out the key to stopping Clifford was putting pressure on him. Cliford has some of the lowest ratings in the country, per PFF, when either blitzed or pressured. One of the absolute worst.
3. So what have opposing teams done? They have attacked the Penn State offensive line as the main part of their defensive game plan. The defensive plan is to just straight up put all the pressure on the line, which will breakdown, thus making the QB breakdown who is one of the worst at handling such a situation. This came to a head versus a completely undermanned opponent in the Illini.
4. At no time have defenses feared what the QB would do to them in those situations. Yeah, sometimes they get burnt but most times they didn't, hence the low scoring offense. They want Sean Clifford to run, one because he's not really a threat and two the hits will take a toll. Watch a read option, they don't even care about Clifford at the mesh point.
5. Teams have figured out that Clifford will try to use his athleticism, which is good but doesn't make a good QB, to deal with this pressure. He will not find the open man and will not find the check-down. They know he can't punish them. Pro QB's not named Jackson or Murray (exceptions) do not deal with pressure in this way, they use their head and arm.
6. If Penn State's offensive line has been so bad under Franklin, as many contend, then how come Menet, Bates, McGovern and Fries are playing in the NFL?

The moral of the story is that it will be magical how much the offensive line improves when the offense is led by a player that requires the defense to be multiple and not singularly focused on attacking the offensive line. The Ravens and Steelers blitz the most in all of football at 46% and 41% of the time. I think I heard that Clifford is blitzed about 44% of the time. That is the plan for teams, blitz Clifford. Alabama has one of the lowest blitz rates in the country. Wisconsin has one of the highest blitz rates in the country at 36%. Saw an article about how Bama would not blitz Joe Burrow because they knew he would punish them for it, a few years back.
 
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Hard to predict the future as far as who starts, who stays and who leaves. What I do know is that I don't think Clifford is a good enough QB to win big games or a conference championship in 2022. I'd rather take my chances with one of the young guys. Maybe he'll be better than Cliff, but if not, at least you're giving him experience for 2023.
 
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Clifford’s problems can be summed up quite succinctly: he makes too damn many mistakes. Period, end of story. He doesn’t throw to wide open receivers, he overthrows wide open receivers, he throws into coverage and gets intercepted, he runs into sacks, and he chokes trying to engineer come-backs (int in the end zone of the Outback bowl that could have made it a one score game is the latest example). In short - he is Anthony Morrelli without a good running game. Inaccurate, mind-boggling bad decisions, chokes in big spots.

Will any of those flaws be improved with another spring/summer practice? The past 2 seasons performance strongly suggests not.
 
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For all of you hating Cliff coming back. I want you to pay attention:

Cliff comes back, holds the spot, and we go in to next year with Cliff, CV, Allar, Pribula, and Stahl in the QB Room.

Cliff doesn't come back.....Allar beats out the other 3 in spring ball. CV portals after spring and we go in to Fall with a QB Room of Allar, Pribula, and Stahl.


For the good of the program we need Cliff to stay, win the job, and at worst go in to fall with Cliff, Allar, Pribula, and Stahl and at best still have all 5.

No way in hell.

Very flawed thinking but you are intitled to your opinion; no matter how incorrect IMO.
 
For all of you hating Cliff coming back. I want you to pay attention:

Cliff comes back, holds the spot, and we go in to next year with Cliff, CV, Allar, Pribula, and Stahl in the QB Room.

Cliff doesn't come back.....Allar beats out the other 3 in spring ball. CV portals after spring and we go in to Fall with a QB Room of Allar, Pribula, and Stahl.


For the good of the program we need Cliff to stay, win the job, and at worst go in to fall with Cliff, Allar, Pribula, and Stahl and at best still have all 5.

Clifford could NEVER be a starting QB at Georgia, Alabama, Ohio St. Texas A&M to name a few.

He'd be lucky to be a ball-boy IMO.

He couldn't even beat out the starting QB at the University of Cincinnati!!!
 
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Clifford’s problems can be summed up quite succinctly: he makes too damn many mistakes. Period, end of story. He doesn’t throw to wide open receivers, he overthrows wide open receivers, he throws into coverage and gets intercepted, he runs into sacks, and he chokes trying to engineer come-backs (int in the end zone of the Outback bowl that could have made it a one score game is the latest example). In short - he is Anthony Morrelli without a good running game. Inaccurate, mind-boggling bad decisions, chokes in big spots.

Will any of those flaws be improved with another spring/summer practice? The past 2 seasons performance strongly suggests not.
Clifford’s problems can be summed up quite succinctly: he makes too damn many mistakeS

BINGO!!!!
 
Clifford’s problems can be summed up quite succinctly: he makes too damn many mistakeS

BINGO!!!!
For those who have been watching Tom Brady's Man in the Arena, which is terrific, I might add.........
Tom says in episode 3 that the primary job of the quarterback is to "NOT LOSE THE GAME". He straight up says this is the job #1. But what does Tom Brady know? If you need your QB to win every game for you, you're probably not that good of a team.
I think a lot of people think the job of the QB is to win the game, when in reality it is only to handle and distribute the ball every play. The other players make all the plays, for the most part. The quarterback cannot make mistakes, you can have all the athletic talent in the world but if you regularly make mistakes, or questionable decisions it won't matter and nobody will view you as good. If you think the weight of the world is on your shoulders and you need to save the game with every play, you are probably playing the wrong position.
I've said for years that one of Clifford's biggest problems is he never knows when to abort and get to the next play. You can't win the game on a 2nd and 4 with 11 minutes and 13 seconds to play in the second quarter. The game doesn't work that way.
Another thing that has become quite clear viewing this series is that the game is about players, not coaches. Teams are as good as the players they have, not the coaches on the sideline. I know everyone wants to blame coaches when things aren't going well but it has more to do with the players not performing, not executing, not being clutch and the chemistry between them than it is about what somebody on the sideline told them to do. At one point Brady goes on to say that during the Pat's 21 game win streak the coaches couldn't even coach because the players were just performing at such a high level nothing else mattered and that Belicheck was actually ready for a loss so he had an excuse to do a little bit of coaching. All plays work when executed properly.
 
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