Who loses the most starters among PSU, OSU, MI, and MSU at season's end?

[Obliviax]

A lot of talk here that Miller is leaving. He said in his instagram story last week that he is staying, but "people leave based on their situation" being a guy from the inner city, it wouldnt surprise me, but I think Franklin will be in his ear.

With that being said, I dont see any Juniors leaving. Next year Boobie has a chance to be on many of the preseason watch lists, and one of the best backs in the country.. which will ultimately up his draft stock.

One of the issues is the NFL draft slotting. In 2018 a kid picked in the middle of the first round (15) got $8m. The 45th pick, Josh Jackson, is making $3.6m and the 75th pick is making $2.6m. Assuming you get six years, which is the average NFL career (outside of QB's) you will probably never make that money up.

My point is, if you get paid $8m in the first year versus $2.6 you lost $5.4m. Probability says you will never make that up in a six year career. Plus, the team is invested in your success. A third rounder brings no real investment (GM/Coach isn't being fired if 3rd round pick doesn't work out). So, if you expect to be a third rounder after your jr. year but a first rounder if you stay through your senior year, that is probably a better investment (plus, get insurance!)

 

[Osprey Lion]

We will lose 7 "starters" for sure, and as has been suggested, are liable to lose Sanders and Miller as well. If we don't lose them and some other 4th year guys who start decide to return, it will be a pretty mature team everywhere. A couple of guys who have been starters are being supplanted by underclassman, so it really should be a net plus in a couple of cases. I can envision a scenario where the glass is half full. I also think Tommy Stevens will be the real deal.

I count five. McSorley, Oruwariye, Thomkins, Farmer and Scott.

 

[Obliviax]

I would think that Patterson - this year - is no better than a 3-4-5 round pick type guy (depending on how many other guys come out - and how many teams are "QB needy")

Normally, I wouldn't think a guy like that would enter early...….

BUT: We all know from his history - that Patterson is a mercenary:
Left HS to go to IMG (IIRC)
Got Paid to go to Ol' Miss
Bailed at Ol' Miss once the Sheriff came to town, to go join Jimmah for a guaranteed starting spot..

He MIGHT be the kind of kid who says "$3 Million - w $1 Million guaranteed - for three years" (or whatever a 3/4 round pick gets) "..... versus "playing college" another year? Sounds good to me!"
He might also be the type of guy who would be very pliable to an agent pissing in his ear about him being a likely 1st rounder, or some such thing.


The last few years, Jimmah has actually been pretty successful in getting guys to STAY (much more so than at OSU, for example)….. so who knows.


BUT: Didn't their back up (McCaffrey?) suffer a pretty significant injury vs PSU?
That could certainly set beck his development time - if that forces him out until, for example, mid summer. Jimmah may end up doing a little sweating as "draft declaration day" approaches.

Don't disagree...but if you are an NFL team that needs a QB (say, the Giants) what QB would you draft? Plus, as you say, it is not like he dreamed of playing QB and wearing those silly helmets in Michigan. So UM is probably no different than the Giants or Chargers except he makes money. I'll be he goes no later than the second round.

 

[2020 is Our Year]

Well then certainly you believe Ohio St WRs Mack, Binjimin, and Hill should be leaving early with McLaurin and Campbell. Center Jordan, and RG Prince ought to make the leap. RB Webber is definitely ready. There is no doubt on Dremont Jones and Landers at DT but Cooper and Cornell at DE should be joining them. You already know Malik Harrison at LB is ready as is Sheffield, Fuller and Arnette in the secondary.


And then Patterson at UM has made his money, time for him. Also WR Perry, OL Onwenu, Bredeson, and Runyan are ready. TEs Gentry and McKeon should both go. RB Higdon has made his money too. DT Kemp and all 3 LBs Bush, Hudson, and Gil are definites and Uche probably has shown more than enough as well. Long, Mettelus, Hill, and Kinnel in the secondary are also all ready.

You agree with this right? After all they have outperformed most of the PSU players you listed. You tell us this frequently so I assume that all of those above from Ohio St and Michigan are clearly ready for the NFL.

I never said they wouldn't lose guys. You're confusing "definitely ready" or "clearly ready" with "likely will". You're all confusing "what they should do" with "what they will do".

Kids enter the draft that likely won't get drafted all the time. And that isn't new. See Freddie Scott.

I believe Patterson should go because this is a weak draft class for QBs and 2020 should be stronger.

Somehow you think me believing that players will leave early means that we can't recover from that. If Miles goes I have faith that Brown or Slade will step up. If Miller goes, which he SHOULD, someone will step up. Losing guys early is a defining characteristic of good/great/elite programs. In no way is saying a kid will, could, should, may leave early a negative.

Michigan and Ohio State will lose more underclassmen than we will. I never said otherwise. Please show me where you think I did.

 

[2020 is Our Year]

In my opinion, it isn’t just getting there the soonest, but how do you maximize the small number of NFL paydays. 1st or 2nd round money will far outweigh an extra year at 5th round money.

I'm sorry but Sanders is never getting first or second round money
Backs should always go pro if they can be drafted. Always. I don't care if you play for Penn State, Ohio State or Akron. You go pro.

 

[Obliviax]

Maybe it didn't come through..... but I think I more or less am in the same line of thinking - - - - - - - once you look at all the variables (NOTE: I sure as hell can't read that kid's mind, nor do I have any desire to follow closely enough to get a good read on his decision)

Although I don't normally pay much attention to NFL Draft stuff, I did look a while back at the QB draft class.
It was AMAING - to me - how many guys who were at one time considered solid QB options for the 2019 draft, who have fallen off the radar (at least wrt being higher round picks)…..


Browning at UW fell off a cliff
The kid at Clemson decided to transfer and sit out a year
The UGA kid - Eason - also decided to transfer and sit out 2018
Bentley at USCe has been in the crapper
Lewerke has been injured all year, and will almost certainly be back for his senior year to try to rebuild his stock
Our own TMc has been in the dumper (relatively)
Francios at FSU was once considered a nice prospect... I don't think he is anymore
Thorson has been lousy.


There ain't much left...…. the kid at Oregon, Finley at NC State, I hear the kid from MIzzou mentioned a lot - but haven't seen him play.
But are there even 5 real legit options in the 1/2/3/4 round level? IDK

Maybe a guy like Patterson (even Haskins?) takes a look at that draft class (and has an agent pissing in his ear)…. and also recognizes that some of those other guys were ONCE considered top prospects, but not so much anymore, and decides to fly the coop of college football.



.

They mentioned it last night in talking about the Giants taking Barkley over Darnell. One of the problems is no good QB's in this draft. They had three, the only one I know anything about is the 6' 2" kid out of WVU. But not one of them is as highly rated as the top four from last year (Mayfield, Darnell, Allen and Rosen....throw in Jackson as well.

 

[Obliviax]

Oh yeh … Grier is the WVU kid.... I had forgotten about him.

But he probably has some of the same Qs about him that some folks have had vav McS (though he is not quite so "small" for a QB as McS is)

Right....he was a four start that went to FL and had a pretty decent FR season. He then got popped for substance abuse and left the team (not sure if he was cut or quit). He then Xfered to WVU. So he also has a bit of a checkered past but we all know the NFL doesn't care much about that.

 

[AdvanSix]

From the standpoint of who are the seniors with no eligibilty left after this year I can answer the Michigan question.

On offense RB Higdon, RT J Bushel-Beatty must leave after this year, nine 2018 starters can return.

On Defense DT-Mone, DE - Winovich, SS-Kinnel, CB-Watson ,ust leave, seven 2018 starters can return.

Sixteen starters from 2018 can return.

Now how many underclassmen will go pro is the most important question:

On Offense all nine underclassmen INCLUDING Shea Patterson are expected to come back according to inside information on the rival site.

On defense DE-Rashan Gary, LB- Devin Bush, CB-David Long are expected to leave.

Good post but David Long not likely to leave. UM offense will be an even bigger force to be reckoned with next year with Higdon only meaningful loss.

Defense losing Mone and Marshall at NT but void easily filled by Dwomfour Kemp, Jeter - so no harm there. BWatson has been a terrific nickel back this year. Winovich and Gary are big losses but Paye, Hutchinson, Uche et al aren't a huge drop off. Paye has been spectacular this year and is a more than adequate replacement. Kinnel is easily replaced by Woods or Hawkins. Punter, KO and K all return.

Hard to say, but looks like Michigan will be a Top 5 team in 2019 when rankings first come out.

 

[81b&w]

Yep..... it's becoming clear.

That level of "analysis" can only be coming from one of the Board's long lost brethren.

And his agenda against Sanders continues, but he is being more subtle with it

 

[AdvanSix]

^^^ Alabama has conceded next 5 MNCs to the SkunkBears ^^^


Typical WalMart Wolverine...….. program hasn't won dick in 20 years, but they have a shot to win the B10 (ain't even done that yet), and Donkey-Nut-Fuzz licker has them down for the Team of the Decade already.

Must be the lead in all that Michigan tap water that leads to the delusions.

I'll type slower so you can follow:

1. Top 5 does not equate to me thinking UM is better than Bama. Reading comprehension, a lost art
2. Program has beat PSU consistently whether its 1, 3, 5, 10 or 20 years - so there's that
3. You have serious anger management issues
4. Making fun of kids in Flint many of whom have Legionnaires disease from water - must make your fellow Nits pretty damn proud - what a pathetic display of human existence you are
5. Thank God "stormingnorm" is one of yours. Stay classy

 

[2020 is Our Year]

Yep..... it's becoming clear.

That level of "analysis" can only be coming from one of the Board's long lost brethren.



(FWIW: Sanders is probably in the top 6-8 RBs - maybe higher, depending on how some teams view smaller backs like Bryce Love and the kid from OkieState - in THIS year's draft - - - - if he were to come out, which I think is less than 50/50)

Top 6-8 gets you in the first or second round? Maybe that's where we disagree. I think Sanders has had a great year and is going to be a good NFL back so I'm confused by your response.

2020s RB class is stronger than 2019 which is another reason I believe he should enter. It's about the kid not our program.

 

[2020 is Our Year]

http://walterfootball.com/draft2019QB.php

Here's one opinion of the QBs in this class. I honestly think you could make an argument for a lot of them to go first including Herbert, Lock, Stidham & Grier. I don't think any should go in the first round though probably 3-5 will. Hopefully the Giants sign Bridgewater or trade for someone that can be productive. Though Eli didn't look bad last night.

 

[indynittany]

I don't think any of our underclassmen should go early.

 

[NedFromYork]

Browning 20th!

 

[ImaWright]

Top 6-8 gets you in the first or second round? Maybe that's where we disagree. I think Sanders has had a great year and is going to be a good NFL back so I'm confused by your response.

2020s RB class is stronger than 2019 which is another reason I believe he should enter. It's about the kid not our program.

Yeah because no other underclassmen will declare at the position in 19. I would be interested in hearing which Ohio St players you feel should depart early. You know, something you are a bit more knowledgeable about.

 

[2020 is Our Year]

Yeah because no other underclassmen will declare at the position in 19. I would be interested in hearing which Ohio St players you feel should depart early. You know, something you are a bit more knowledgeable about.

Not an Ohio State fan and, I'm factoring in the early entrees. I mean, is accusing me of being an Ohio State fan the best you have

 

[ImaWright]

Not an Ohio State fan and, I'm factoring in the early entrees. I mean, is accusing me of being an Ohio State fan the best you have

So you are unwilling to comment on who should depart Ohio St early but everyone eligible at PSU should go and you think Patterson should leave UM. Ok, thanks for letting us know exactly where you stand.

 

[2020 is Our Year]

So you are unwilling to comment on who should depart Ohio St early but everyone eligible at PSU should go and you think Patterson should leave UM. Ok, thanks for letting us know exactly where you stand.

Find me where I said everyone eligible at Penn State should go? I said Miller & Sanders SHOULD go. That's two out of all the people that are RS JRs and JRs. There's others that may or may not go but I'm never surprised when a kid goes early.

Ohio State will probably lose half a dozen or so guy early. Obviously Bosa is gone. Jonathan Cooper, Malik Harrison, Dwayne Haskins, KJ Hill, Jordan Fuller, etc all will at least consider it. Mike Weber SHOULD go if the NFL advisory council tells him he's likely to get drafted. There's a ton of guys on that team that should go. I haven't spent enough time on other teams yet regarding the draft to make a definite statement. I'll let you know for sure as we approach bowl season

Can you explain why it bothers you that I think they should go pro because it's best for them?

 

[jimjim47]

Patterson and his family know he needs another year under Harbaugh to grade out higher and very strong indications are he returns next year (MLB drafted like 260 , not serious chance).

Second string on defensive line is strong (Dwumbfour, Solomon, Paye, Hutchinson all played a lot this year).

Secondary will almost all be new, a weak spot.

Losing Bush at LB is big (fastest LB at Michigan and leader of the defense), replacement is Ross who has played some and/or Jordan Anthony (5 star RS freshman from NJ).

Things change. The word now by insiders on the Michigan board is that it is most likely Shea Patterson leaves to try the NFL after this year.

I know this will not break many hearts on this board.

I love having McCaffery (6'5", excellent arm, great genetics (if that counts)) at QB next year but he is not as mobile or able to throw on the run as well as Patterson.

 

[2020 is Our Year]

Things change. The word now by insiders on the Michigan board is that it is most likely Shea Patterson leaves to try the NFL after this year.

I know this will not break many hearts on this board.

I love having McCaffery (6'5", excellent arm, great genetics (if that counts)) at QB next year but he is not as mobile or able to throw on the run as well as Patterson.

McCaffrey's pretty mobile (nice 40+ yard TD run against Wisconsin) but losing Shea definitely hurts them.

 

[jimjim47]

AKA:

As everyone who could fog a mirror knew anyway...… You and your cited "Insiders" don't know dick
Then... or now.

PS
Are you still lost?

WTF. Trying to give reasonable update on status of returning players on other Big Ten teams which was originally requested in the OP. You are a little man living a sorrowful life.