Where do you have Saban and Meyer in your all-time cfb coaches list?

[john4psu]

I'd have to think about it, but off the top of my head, my top 10 would include (in no order as of yet):
Saban, Meyer, Joe, Rockne, Leahy, Wilkinson, Hayes, Bryant, Bowden and Osborne.

With Saban tying the Bear with six national titles last year, and going for a record seventh this year, it led me to wonder, how many national championships would Bear Bryant have won if the college football playoff existed back then?

https://johnbaranowski.wordpress.co...e-won-if-he-had-the-college-football-playoff/

 

[LemonEars]

I'd have to think about it, but off the top of my head, my top 10 would include (in no order as of yet):
Saban, Meyer, Joe, Rockne, Leahy, Wilkinson, Hayes, Bryant, Bowden and Osborne.

With Saban tying the Bear with six national titles last year, and going for a record seventh this year, it led me to wonder, how many national championships would Bear Bryant have won if the college football playoff existed back then?

https://johnbaranowski.wordpress.co...e-won-if-he-had-the-college-football-playoff/

Also, I have to wonder how many national championships Joe would have won with the playoff in place. We had many great teams in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s that got screwed by the football elite.

 

[Nitt1300]

Saban is #1, after that Joe, the Bear, and Bobby Bowden

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

Saban is #1, after that Joe, the Bear, and Bobby Bowden

I’d put Bear ahead of Joe, and I’d possibly include Meyer and Carroll right around there if we take character off the table and include Joe’s good and the bad, including some down years, losing streaks and organizational decisions. Joe at his best is def top 3 for me, possibly 2. But whether Joe goes 2, 3 or 5 or whatever, he’s still ahead of Bowden, Osborne, stoops, and Hayes. I’ll include Spurrier and Holtz on the list just because I liked them for college football and they were great and successful coaches as well.

But the thing with Joe was being a great coach and so much more.

 

[Eric_M]

Saban is in top 5. Meyer should be somewhere in the 15 to 20 range. Simply like the baseball players who are kept out of the HOF for cheating, so should Meyer be judged on his off the field actions and leadership.

 

[harbest]

I think you have to weigh how much a coach actually uses his personnel against how well he attracts athletes to his program. Just to throw names out, put Saban or Meyer at Indiana or Illinois with the current personnel for 4 years and see what their records are.

 

[GregInPitt]

Saban is in top 5. Meyer should be somewhere in the 15 to 20 range. Simply like the baseball players who are kept out of the HOF for cheating, so should Meyer be judged on his off the field actions and leadership.

Saban never won big anywhere, college or NFL, until he got to the SEC where he could cheat and have a leg up on most of college football, so I would not even have him in my top 10. Meyer won big everywhere he was head coach, including Bowling Green and Utah, a much better resume.

 

[fairgambit]

I won't rank them other than to say that in his prime no one did a better job of producing student athletes than Joe.

 

[Achowalogan]

Depends on the criteria to make the list.
For the areas I feel are most important, education among them, Joe Paterno tops the list.

 

[psualt]

I think you have to weigh how much a coach actually uses his personnel against how well he attracts athletes to his program. Just to throw names out, put Saban or Meyer at Indiana or Illinois with the current personnel for 4 years and see what their records are.

I don’t understand this. A coach is judged by wins and losses. No one cares who the best X&Os guy is. Recruiting is at least half the battle.

 

[Aardvark86]

Not actually sure I’d put meyer there. He’s relied a lot on finding a single freakish qb and just riding him in non-qb-traditional ways

 

[nits74]

Saban never won big anywhere, college or NFL, until he got to the SEC where he could cheat and have a leg up on most of college football, so I would not even have him in my top 10. Meyer won big everywhere he was head coach, including Bowling Green and Utah, a much better resume.

What evidence do you have that Saban cheated? And if so, was he not winning big against competition that , according to you, also cheats? This sounds like sour grapes.

 

[GregInPitt]

What evidence do you have that Saban cheated? And if so, was he not winning big against competition that , according to you, also cheats? This sounds like sour grapes.

Signing to way above the 85 limit and then cutting down after Spring practice gives Saban an unfair advantage and keeps the playing field from being level with other conferences. Call it what you want. I call it cheating, and he never won anywhere until he got to a place where he had an advantage on the competition. Couldn't win big at MSU. Couldn't win big in the NFL where every organization has rules to follow including the draft and salary cap. Just a mediocre coach that fell into it.... Sorry, but it's just my opinion.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

Not actually sure I’d put meyer there. He’s relied a lot on finding a single freakish qb and just riding him in non-qb-traditional ways

Huh?

Josh Harris, Alex Smith (not really a freak), Chris Leak, Tebow (freak), Miller, Barrett, Jones, Haskins... I only count one freak (possibly two). Cam Newton would have counted but be didn’t play enough to be “ridden” in any way at UF. Meyer had some great spread offenses and got creative using Tebow, but how’s either a bad thing? You lost me.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

he never won anywhere until he got to a place where he had an advantage on the competition. Couldn't win big at MSU... Just a mediocre coach that fell into it...

You must have missed what he was putting together at MSU. Especially in 1999. Then he left for LSU and his team beat a solid Florida team.

 

[Nitt1300]

I’d put Bear ahead of Joe, and I’d possibly include Meyer and Carroll right around there if we take character off the table and include Joe’s good and the bad, including some down years, losing streaks and organizational decisions. Joe at his best is def top 3 for me, possibly 2. But whether Joe goes 2, 3 or 5 or whatever, he’s still ahead of Bowden, Osborne, stoops, and Hayes. I’ll include Spurrier and Holtz on the list just because I liked them for college football and they were great and successful coaches as well.

But the thing with Joe was being a great coach and so much more.

I agree- and I meant to say "in no particular order" after Saban

 

[PSUSignore]

It's too hard to rank across different eras of the game. That said, I think Saban has made a strong case for #1. Urban is more complicated.

 

[kijanacat]

I don't believe there is any one great coach. There is a pantheon of great coaches. Joe produced six national championship caliber teams--1968, 1969, 1973, 1982, 1986 and 1994. The fact that most did not get voted number one is irrelevant as the voting has been shown to be heavily biased. (votes in 1994 being a major case in point.) I think Nick Satan gets short shrift in Lion Land but his ability to recruit is beyond question, at least with the Alabama support he gets, both the University and community. Plus he plugs the rights pegs in the right holes.

 

[GregInPitt]

You must have missed what he was putting together at MSU. Especially in 1999. Then he left for LSU and his team beat a solid Florida team.

Yep, if he ever won the B10 I surely must have missed it.....

 

[AWS1022]

Saban never won big anywhere, college or NFL, until he got to the SEC where he could cheat and have a leg up on most of college football, so I would not even have him in my top 10. Meyer won big everywhere he was head coach, including Bowling Green and Utah, a much better resume.

He wasn’t all that outstanding at LSU other than one year, so he didn’t really hit his greatness until he got to Bama.

 

[harbest]

I don’t understand this. A coach is judged by wins and losses. No one cares who the best X&Os guy is. Recruiting is at least half the battle.

How do you arrive at those wins and losses? Coaching can only take you so far, if you are ignoring the technical aspect of football, you are ignoring the recipe for success of a lot of football teams. It's how a below average Maryland team almost upset a superior OSU team. The NFL network has a show on Wednesdays at 6:30 pm that delves into the x's and o's of football. It shows how David can compete with Goliath and sometimes beat them.

 

[wplion]

Not actually sure I’d put meyer there. He’s relied a lot on finding a single freakish qb and just riding him in non-qb-traditional ways

Urban is 82 - 9 in 7 years in the Big Ten. He has only lost to 4 Big Ten teams, Penn State, Michigan State, Iowa and Purdue. He has never lost to his biggest rival. He won National Championships at 2 schools. I don't really like Urban Meyer, but he is clearly a GREAT coach.

 

[heckmans]

I'd have to think about it, but off the top of my head, my top 10 would include (in no order as of yet):
Saban, Meyer, Joe, Rockne, Leahy, Wilkinson, Hayes, Bryant, Bowden and Osborne.

With Saban tying the Bear with six national titles last year, and going for a record seventh this year, it led me to wonder, how many national championships would Bear Bryant have won if the college football playoff existed back then?

https://johnbaranowski.wordpress.co...e-won-if-he-had-the-college-football-playoff/

I dislike all of these GOAT lists. Everyone has different criteria and it's nearly impossible to compare across eras. How does longevity play into it? Paterno had 40 years. Petey Caroll had 8. Both have 2 MNC.

I prefer the Ty Webb method

 

[doc69]

You hit the nail on the head, about Joe.

 

[JeffClear]

I dislike all of these GOAT lists. Everyone has different criteria and it's nearly impossible to compare across eras. How does longevity play into it? Paterno had 40 years. Petey Caroll had 8. Both have 2 MNC.

I prefer the Ty Webb method

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That’s why they are called opinions, there is no true objective way to judge a college football coach.
But in my opinion, longevity counts but so does knowing when to walk away. I think Paterno in his prime was as good as anyone but he and Bowden get negative marks for not knowing when to step away like Osborne and Spurrier.
Have to give Urban props for being good everywhere he went and never had a bad team. I don’t think he’s had a team with a losing record.

 

[Hotshoe]

What is the criteria? Wins and loses? Who won and actually contributed the most to the game? It's college so yes, graduation rates must be taken into consideration. Minority impact? If you're looking at the full list of criteria, no one is in Joe's league.

 

[PennStateNate]

Saban never won big anywhere, college or NFL, until he got to the SEC where he could cheat and have a leg up on most of college football, so I would not even have him in my top 10. Meyer won big everywhere he was head coach, including Bowling Green and Utah, a much better resume.

Never understood this thinking. Is there open proof he is cheating?? I don’t like Saban, but give him his due.

 

[JoeDidntKnow]

Every win Saban and Meyers have should be accompanied by an asterisk because they win without following the rules or ethics.
When it comes to the complete package, no one is in Joe's league. There will never be another like him. He was robbed of 5 NC's and everyone knows it

 

[GregInPitt]

Never understood this thinking. Is there open proof he is cheating?? I don’t like Saban, but give him his due.

His due is that he never won big anywhere until he got to the SEC where it is standard practice to max every recruiting class, backfilling, and over signing to as big a number as possible before cutting down after Spring practice. That practice runs an easy 110-120 or more top athletes through the roster over the course of the classes that make up their roster which is an unfair advantage over conferences that allow only minimal oversigning. I believe it was reported that the B10 allows 3 or 4 over the 85 to allow for some attrition.

Is this an NCAA violation? No. But in the sense of going into the homes of recruits and telling their parents that their sons will be student-athletes it does not support the student-athlete model of the B10 and other conferences. In the sense that there is a scholarship limit, it is an unfair advantage that many people would describe as cheating. If Saban has recruited 125 or 130 players over that last 5 years, and then cut down 10+ each Spring to get his 85 roster. And then plays against teams that have recruited 95 to 110 players over those 5 years, is that fair? No. Until the SEC plays by the same rules as the B10 why would anyone praise their coaches for winning and being better coaches? I won't.

It would be like giving an NFL coach 2 or 3 extra draft choices every year and some extra cap space, and then when that teams wins declaring the coach a genius. But when Sabin was in the NFL no one gave him extra draft choices or $20million of extra cap space so he was just another NFL coach that struck out. So he went where he at least had an advantage over most of the other teams in the "league", the NCAA and just like a genie coming out of a lamp he wins.....

 

[theXbomber]

I have to admit it, but if you give me a one game scenario I'll take Meyer over Saban. Was 2 and 1 against Saban when everything was on the line with arguably less talent.

 

[Keyser Soze 16801]

I couldn't care less about who makes the list but I hope Franklin is central to these discussions in 10 years

 

[Pinkhippo PeanutButter]

His due is that he never won big anywhere until he got to the SEC where it is standard practice to max every recruiting class, backfilling, and over signing to as big a number as possible before cutting down after Spring practice. That practice runs an easy 110-120 or more top athletes through the roster over the course of the classes that make up their roster which is an unfair advantage over conferences that allow only minimal oversigning. I believe it was reported that the B10 allows 3 or 4 over the 85 to allow for some attrition.

Is this an NCAA violation? No. But in the sense of going into the homes of recruits and telling their parents that their sons will be student-athletes it does not support the student-athlete model of the B10 and other conferences. In the sense that there is a scholarship limit, it is an unfair advantage that many people would describe as cheating. If Saban has recruited 125 or 130 players over that last 5 years, and then cut down 10+ each Spring to get his 85 roster. And then plays against teams that have recruited 95 to 110 players over those 5 years, is that fair? No. Until the SEC plays by the same rules as the B10 why would anyone praise their coaches for winning and being better coaches? I won't.

It would be like giving an NFL coach 2 or 3 extra draft choices every year and some extra cap space, and then when that teams wins declaring the coach a genius. But when Sabin was in the NFL no one gave him extra draft choices or $20million of extra cap space so he was just another NFL coach that struck out. So he went where he at least had an advantage over most of the other teams in the "league", the NCAA and just like a genie coming out of a lamp he wins.....

I'd swear you be were a Russian troll.