What win loss record defines a successful season for Franklin this year?

marshall23

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And if rather you blame the players for every poor play, then no player could ever live up to the expectations of the legendary James Franklin.

See how this works AWS? If ultimate success evades us, is it the coach or merely the players the coach recruits? Hard to tell.
"If you blame the coaching for every poor play.....THEN NO COACH COULD EVER LIVE UP TO THE EXPECTATIONS OF THE NNNNNCAC!" fixed.
 

marshall23

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And if rather you blame the players for every poor play, then no player could ever live up to the expectations of the
Wonder if they feel strongly about Ricky Rahne one way or the other....just for fun, they might out themselves.

legendary James Franklin.

See how this works AWS? If ultimate success evades us, is it the coach or merely the players the coach recruits? Hard to tell.
Wonder how they felt about Joe (2000-04) one way or the other......they might out themselves......
 

ram2020

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Wonder how they felt about Joe (2000-04) one way or the other......they might out themselves......

You see, thats a little dishonest marshall. Didn't Joe have a catalog of success built up by then? Couple championships, a Heisman winner, pile of bowl wins. Single handedly made the program and the school famous, marketable, reputable. James's little 11-11 here the last few years is a bit like throwing up drunk before you even got to the ball.

I get it, you guys have dug in so tightly to this "support james at all cost" position you carved 3 years ago, there is no turning back. You're at the point where even if the program slid into the dumpster ablaze, you'd be okay with it so long as James let you go for the ride in his underpants. Its cool
 

AWS1022

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In many cases, "Joe the Drywaller" isn't trying to demonstrate his coaching expertise, he is trying to have a civil discussion about events and express opinions in a respectful manner. Yet you and your buddies are hell-bent to ruin any and all civil discussion, slinging insults and attacking anyone that doesn't buy in to your point of view.

Why was there no viable backup QB for the Iowa game? You think him without any fault for that? You are pleased with how he was prepared for Illinois? Some of those guys played their asses off, but you want to hang it all on them?

And just stop with the idiotic response "all the coaching expertise" crap. Pretty much 99.999999% of discussions here could fall into the category of "poster has never experienced.....".
Civil discussion? That’s funny. Have you read the posts about Franklin? Some folks twist into pretzels trying to find a way to blame him for everything that’s even slightly negative that happens. And it’s funny, the “experts” are just having a civil discussion, but anyone that disagrees with them are hell bent on ruining those discussions….so you don’t want a discussion, you want a rip on Franklin orgy.
As for the Iowa game, I don’t know what was going on with the QB….but neither do you….I’m quite sure the coaching staff didn’t spend every day in practice ignoring all the back up QB’s and walking around saying “Don’t worry about them, we won’t ever need them.” That’s what some of you actually think. Unless you’re at practice every day and know what’s going on, it’s kind of hard to make an accurate judgement. And for the Illinois game, how many opportunities do players need to fail to win before it’s the players’ fault?
 

AWS1022

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And if rather you blame the players for every poor play, then no player could ever live up to the expectations of the legendary James Franklin.

See how this works AWS? If ultimate success evades us, is it the coach or merely the players the coach recruits? Hard to tell.
Huh? So I would rather blame the players for poor plays???? Who else should I blame? A coach can’t make the plays for the players. And all players make good plays and bad plays, if they make more good plays than bad plays, then they can live up to expectations.

The problem isn’t whether ultimate success is evading us, it’s the differing definitions of ultimate success. And what compounds that problem is the imagined lofty status of this program over the past 25 years. Franklin is expected to take this program to a level it hasn’t been at since the 80’s(and maybe even higher than that). And then throw in the fact that many on here are rooting for Franklin to lose just to prove themselves right, and it gets pretty ridiculous.
 

ram2020

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Civil discussion? That’s funny. Have you read the posts about Franklin? Some folks twist into pretzels trying to find a way to blame him for everything that’s even slightly negative that happens. And it’s funny, the “experts” are just having a civil discussion, but anyone that disagrees with them are hell bent on ruining those discussions….so you don’t want a discussion, you want a rip on Franklin orgy.
As for the Iowa game, I don’t know what was going on with the QB….but neither do you….I’m quite sure the coaching staff didn’t spend every day in practice ignoring all the back up QB’s and walking around saying “Don’t worry about them, we won’t ever need them.” That’s what some of you actually think. Unless you’re at practice every day and know what’s going on, it’s kind of hard to make an accurate judgement. And for the Illinois game, how many opportunities do players need to fail to win before it’s the players’ fault?
I'm just so confused by your last sentence, the rest is at least reasonable. How you are more comfortable blaming 18-19 years old's in contrast to a coaching staff that gets paid millions is beyond me. A coaching staff that spent that week before the Illinois game talking about how the university needed to make 365 day commitments($) to the program and to James's pocket for years to come. Pedantic rants about "maybe someday we can all have a beer and talk about my contract." After a couple of those wonderfully glib interviews, our staff hit the road recruiting for the week. When they get back, they march out a team of players that THEY recruited, that THEY totally don't motivate and prepare for a physical contest. James was distracted and that team was distracted. 22 point favorites, at home, on homecoming. Truly a pathetic display, maybe the worst in a decade(couple home Maryland losses under Franklin rival it). Maybe a player makes a play or two and we win by a FG?
 
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AWS1022

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Not hard to tell for some. Any reason other than the legendary James Franklin is the root cause.
Last I checked, players did have a lot to do with winning and losing….we’re not playing PlayStation here.
 

ram2020

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Huh? So I would rather blame the players for poor plays???? Who else should I blame? A coach can’t make the plays for the players. And all players make good plays and bad plays, if they make more good plays than bad plays, then they can live up to expectations.

The problem isn’t whether ultimate success is evading us, it’s the differing definitions of ultimate success. And what compounds that problem is the imagined lofty status of this program over the past 25 years. Franklin is expected to take this program to a level it hasn’t been at since the 80’s(and maybe even higher than that). And then throw in the fact that many on here are rooting for Franklin to lose just to prove themselves right, and it gets pretty ridiculous.
No, I'm reasonable. I've clamed many times that PSU just is not going to catch OSU and Alabama at this point and it's not worth sacrificing Success with Honor to do it. Losing at home to Illinois is simply unacceptable as well. Im good with 8-9 wins a year. If we are going to be 6-7 wins a year, why even make the investment into a coach like this?
 
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AWS1022

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I'm just so confused by your last sentence, the rest is at least reasonable. How you are more comfortable blaming 18-19 years old's in contrast to a coaching staff that gets paid millions is beyond me. A coaching staff that spent that week before the Illinois game talking about how the university needed to make 365 day commitments($) to the program and to James's pocket for years to come. Pedantic rants about "maybe someday we can all have a beer and talk about my contract." After a couple of those wonderfully glib interviews, our staff hit the road recruiting for the week. When they get back, they march out a team of players that THEY recruited, that THEY totally don't motivate and prepare for a physical contest. James was distracted and that team was distracted. 22 point favorites, at home, on homecoming. Truly a pathetic display, maybe the worst in a decade(couple home Maryland losses under Franklin rival it). Maybe a player makes a play or two and we win by a FG?
It was a bad game, no doubt…bad for Franklin and the players. I can think of a lot of bad games way before Franklin ever got here. Players play bad games and it’s not always the coach’s fault. In all my years of playing sports, I never lost a game because of a coach, yet every game Penn State football loses is because of Franklin…weird.
 

ram2020

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Last I checked, players did have a lot to do with winning and losing….we’re not playing PlayStation here.
SO if the players roundly come up short why is that? Are they put in the best position to succeed? Are they playing out of position? Who recruited them to the school? Who is developing them? Are players just pieces in electric football? Throw em out there and hope they do something good?
 
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ram2020

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It was a bad game, no doubt…bad for Franklin and the players. I can think of a lot of bad games way before Franklin ever got here. Players play bad games and it’s not always the coach’s fault. In all my years of playing sports, I never lost a game because of a coach, yet every game Penn State football loses is because of Franklin…weird.

So if coaches are inert and don't decide outcomes on the field, why would we pay one $85M over 10 years to lead this team? Clearly schools, our school, don't subscribe to your notion that coaches don't win/lose games.
 

AWS1022

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No, I'm reasonable. I've clamed many times that PSU just is not going to catch OSU and Alabama at this point and it's not worth sacrificing Success with Honor to do it. Losing at home to Illinois is simply unacceptable as well. Im good with 8-9 wins a year. If we are going to be 6-7 wins a year, why even make the investment into a coach like this?
The Illinois loss was bad, but not nearly as bad as some are making it out to be. It’s not like it was a last place MAC team. Illinois beat Minn (should they fire Fleck?) they beat NW (should they fire Pat?), they beat Neb (should they fire Frost?) they only lost by 4 to Purdue. They weren’t great, but they were a competitive team. And I’m good with 8-9 wins a year with 10 wins every once in a while, but we’re also going to have some 7 win seasons every now and then. With our division, I see 10 wins as our ceiling every year regardless of who’s coaching, so 7-9 wins is about the norm.
 

AWS1022

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SO if the players roundly come up short why is that? Are they put in the best position to succeed? Are they playing out of position? Who recruited them to the school? Who is developing them? Are players just pieces in electric football? Throw em out there and hope they do something good?
Even the best players have bad games. And sometimes they are put in a position to succeed and don’t and sometimes they are put out of position and they don’t succeed (and sometimes they are put in a wrong position and still succeed). It’s a mix, but to many on here, every bad play is bad coaching. It just gets old.
 

bourbon n blues

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When you are paid 7-8 million dollars a year to work in your chosen profession.....you laugh at couch coaches who call you a failure.
10 more years!
The market prices are one thing, competentcy is a different thing. I don’t think my orthopedic surgeon makes that much per year but I bet he csn fix knees better than Franklin can coach .
 
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ram2020

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The Illinois loss was bad, but not nearly as bad as some are making it out to be. It’s not like it was a last place MAC team. Illinois beat Minn (should they fire Fleck?) they beat NW (should they fire Pat?), they beat Neb (should they fire Frost?) they only lost by 4 to Purdue. They weren’t great, but they were a competitive team. And I’m good with 8-9 wins a year with 10 wins every once in a while, but we’re also going to have some 7 win seasons every now and then. With our division, I see 10 wins as our ceiling every year regardless of who’s coaching, so 7-9 wins is about the norm.
Don't disagree, but big difference in my mind between 7 and 9 wins. I think we play 3 laughers a year, I'd like to see 8-9 wins + a bowl win as sort of the benchmark.
Even the best players have bad games. And sometimes they are put in a position to succeed and don’t and sometimes they are put out of position and they don’t succeed (and sometimes they are put in a wrong position and still succeed). It’s a mix, but to many on here, every bad play is bad coaching. It just gets old.

Yeah, that's fair. Much like the QB the HC probably gets too much credit for wins and too much credit for losses. That said, outside of a few years with JoeMo, Franklin hasn't quite proven to me he is a good coach. I guess you might argue there really aren't good or bad coaches just players making more good plays than the team they are playing.
 
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bourbon n blues

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The Illinois loss was bad, but not nearly as bad as some are making it out to be. It’s not like it was a last place MAC team. Illinois beat Minn (should they fire Fleck?) they beat NW (should they fire Pat?), they beat Neb (should they fire Frost?) they only lost by 4 to Purdue. They weren’t great, but they were a competitive team. And I’m good with 8-9 wins a year with 10 wins every once in a while, but we’re also going to have some 7 win seasons every now and then. With our division, I see 10 wins as our ceiling every year regardless of who’s coaching, so 7-9 wins is about the norm.
Honestly, I’m not good with that . Before the recent changes you could say I have brand loyalty . I don’t anymore because the players are not Penn state students anymore.
They are mercenaries , hired guns. I demand the highest level of performance from them because they are not us anymore. Failure to meet my expectations means I don’t buy the product .
Team loyalty is for suckers because they don’t care about us. That is what set college sports apart from other sports , pro sports to be specific .
 

AWS1022

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So if coaches are inert and don't decide outcomes on the field, why would we pay one $85M over 10 years to lead this team? Clearly schools, our school, don't subscribe to your notion that coaches don't win/lose games.
Coaches should be judged on the whole, not on a game by game or play by play basis. Every coaching decision can be second guessed in hindsight, that’s why it’s not fair to do it. Also, a lot of stuff goes on in practice during the week that fans know nothing about, so again, not fair to judge game by game. It’s also easy to sit on your Lay-Z Boy and yell that he should have done this or that as opposed to being on the field in the heat of the moment with your whole career riding on the decisions.

Then you judge the coach on their whole body of work, not what have you done for me lately. Franklin has proven he can win (he did it at Vandy and 42 wins in four years here). If he can’t get back to that level every three or four years, then the university should move on if they think they can improve on that.
 
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AWS1022

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Don't disagree, but big difference in my mind between 7 and 9 wins. I think we play 3 laughers a year, I'd like to see 8-9 wins + a bowl win as sort of the benchmark.


Yeah, that's fair. Much like the QB the HC probably gets too much credit for wins and too much credit for losses. That said, outside of a few years with JoeMo, Franklin hasn't quite proven to me he is a good coach. I guess you might argue there really aren't good or bad coaches just players making more good plays than the team they are playing.
But many on here criticized the hell out of JoeMo too…it’s funny how much better our coaches are judged on here after they leave. They did win 11 games after JoeMo left, so there’s that. There are good and bad coaches, but more importantly, there are schools that are in a better position to win than others (recruiting area, NIL, facilities, etc.). Why do the same handful of schools win the NC in basketball every year even after they change coaches?
 

AWS1022

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Honestly, I’m not good with that . Before the recent changes you could say I have brand loyalty . I don’t anymore because the players are not Penn state students anymore.
They are mercenaries , hired guns. I demand the highest level of performance from them because they are not us anymore. Failure to meet my expectations means I don’t buy the product .
Team loyalty is for suckers because they don’t care about us. That is what set college sports apart from other sports , pro sports to be specific .
Unfortunately we don’t have the access to as many “mercenaries” as some other schools, so we’re at a disadvantage. We also have a university that hasn’t bought into the mercenary mindset. So we’re still looking at a ceiling of 10 wins in most years.
 

ram2020

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But many on here criticized the hell out of JoeMo too…it’s funny how much better our coaches are judged on here after they leave. They did win 11 games after JoeMo left, so there’s that. There are good and bad coaches, but more importantly, there are schools that are in a better position to win than others (recruiting area, NIL, facilities, etc.). Why do the same handful of schools win the NC in basketball every year even after they change coaches?

I think(I hope) most here want James to succeed. If James succeeds, that means the program is winning ball games. James is mostly likeable and I think he represents the University well. I think he has the players interests at heart. He absolutely has to start adapting to life in the Big 10 and producing a physical offensive line. He did a wonderful job recruiting to get Allar into the school(deserves a ton of credit). Let's hope they can have a positive year this year, let's call it 8 wins, competitive in the losses(I think that is fair and reasonable) and then build a tough team around Allar and some of the talent in the backfield in 23. If he wins 7 this year and 7 next year, this thing is going to be off track and it won't matter who we blame, James won't see the balance of the years on that contract.
 

crm114psu

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I think(I hope) most here want James to succeed. If James succeeds, that means the program is winning ball games. James is mostly likeable and I think he represents the University well. I think he has the players interests at heart. He absolutely has to start adapting to life in the Big 10 and producing a physical offensive line. He did a wonderful job recruiting to get Allar into the school(deserves a ton of credit). Let's hope they can have a positive year this year, let's call it 8 wins, competitive in the losses(I think that is fair and reasonable) and then build a tough team around Allar and some of the talent in the backfield in 23. If he wins 7 this year and 7 next year, this thing is going to be off track and it won't matter who we blame, James won't see the balance of the years on that contract.
Agree with a lot of this. I think most here want the program to succeed regardless of who is at the helm. I think he has certain players' interest at heart but not all. Not in full agreement about representing the University, anyone that keeps their noses clean and is a decent person could do that.

The main problem is that a lot of people here want Saban/Smart/Swinney results but aren't willing to buy in to those personalities for a HC. If that ever changes then the program could enjoy some success in the future. Otherwise, look forward to mediocre with a rare 10/11 win season every 8-10 years.
 
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lazydave841

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While JoeMo was here, the same "fire Franklin" guys were pissed that he ran Saquon into the back of the OL with a long mesh point and ruined his Heisman hopes.

Now, he's the only competent coach Franklin ever hired and the only reason for our minor success under Franklin.

Yet JoeMo hasn't won 11 games as a OC or HC anywhere he's been since.

We even have one poster claiming 2016 wasn't a great season. Winning the conference, beating Ohio State. That's ultimately what any seasons goal should be, yet revisionist history has deemed that less than great to some posters here.

Even the mighty Alabama would disappoint some expectations. Has nothing to with Franklin apologist or haters. It's just reality.
 

Fletchster1

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Beat all teams we're supposed to beat and go 3-1 in the tough games. No horseshlt losses to Indiana, Illinois, Maryland, Nebraska like in recent years.

Purdue - Win (1-0)
Ohio - Win (2-0)
Auburn - Loss (2-1)
Central Michigan - Win (3-1)
Northwestern - Win (4-1)
Michigan - Win (5-1)
Minnesota - Win (6-1)
Ohio State - Loss (6-2)
Indiana - Win (7-2)
Maryland - Win (8-2)
Rutgers - Win (9-2)
Michigan State - Win (10-2)
 
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AWS1022

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I think(I hope) most here want James to succeed. If James succeeds, that means the program is winning ball games. James is mostly likeable and I think he represents the University well. I think he has the players interests at heart. He absolutely has to start adapting to life in the Big 10 and producing a physical offensive line. He did a wonderful job recruiting to get Allar into the school(deserves a ton of credit). Let's hope they can have a positive year this year, let's call it 8 wins, competitive in the losses(I think that is fair and reasonable) and then build a tough team around Allar and some of the talent in the backfield in 23. If he wins 7 this year and 7 next year, this thing is going to be off track and it won't matter who we blame, James won't see the balance of the years on that contract.
Very reasonable. Even though many on here accuse anyone who supports Franklin as being a coach worshipper, I want him to do well because that means the team is doing well. If he leaves or gets let go, I will hope the next guy (assuming PSU doesn’t decide to be the first P-5 school to hire a female head coach) does well also.
 
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ram2020

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Agree with a lot of this. I think most here want the program to succeed regardless of who is at the helm. I think he has certain players' interest at heart but not all. Not in full agreement about representing the University, anyone that keeps their noses clean and is a decent person could do that.

The main problem is that a lot of people here want Saban/Smart/Swinney results but aren't willing to buy in to those personalities for a HC. If that ever changes then the program could enjoy some success in the future. Otherwise, look forward to mediocre with a rare 10/11 win season every 8-10 years.

Yeah, I don't know enough off the field stuff. Im willing to give Franklin the benefit of doubt about representing the university.
Very reasonable. Even though many on here accuse anyone who supports Franklin as being a coach worshipper, I want him to do well because that means the team is doing well. If he leaves or gets let go, I will hope the next guy (assuming PSU doesn’t decide to be the first P-5 school to hire a female head coach) does well also.
I can get behind that.
 

AWS1022

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Agree with a lot of this. I think most here want the program to succeed regardless of who is at the helm. I think he has certain players' interest at heart but not all. Not in full agreement about representing the University, anyone that keeps their noses clean and is a decent person could do that.

The main problem is that a lot of people here want Saban/Smart/Swinney results but aren't willing to buy in to those personalities for a HC. If that ever changes then the program could enjoy some success in the future. Otherwise, look forward to mediocre with a rare 10/11 win season every 8-10 years.
Swinney wouldn’t have the results at PSU that he has had at Clemson due to conference strength. I’m not sure Smart would either due to lack of in state recruiting talent….I think Saban or Meyer are the only two coaches that could get that level of success here, but only if the university made some changes as well. I’m just curious what the people who want Franklin gone at all costs will do when the next guy comes in and has the same results….fire him too? Then fire the next guy, and the next guy? How many will we have to go through before people realize we’re not in the 80’s anymore in terms of recruiting and we’re not independent anymore.