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Discussion in 'BWI / McAndrew Board' started by john4psu, Feb 8, 2018.
Currently finishing up an old pulp/noir novel: Cassidy’s Girl by David Goodis.
Book of Revelation.......
There is a reason that it is the 2nd most read book of all time.
I'm embarrassed that I had not read it before now.
I finished this late last week. You know its a good history book when you're a) sorry you've come to the end, b) searching the Notes and bibliography sections to identify other history books that might be a good read.
There are lots of books about the battles of the Rev War, about the Founding Fathers, and about the military leaders on both sides. There have been a few books that looked at parts of the story of what happened to the loyalists that left with the British. This is the most complete analysis I've read about the loyalists that left, the difficulties and successes that they encountered, how they were treated by the British government, etc.
Maya Jasanoff, has been (I think) a professor at UVA and at Harvard. She has the enviable ability to bring academic rigor to her investigation, as well as a writing style that makes the subject a more enjoyable read than an academic paper.
Approximately 60,000 loyalists (including former slaves that were granted their freedom by fighting for the British, as well as Native Americans that had fought with the British) as well as approximately 15,000 slaves owned by the aforementioned loyalists, departed in advance of, or with, the British evacuations of Savannah, Charleston, and finally New York City (on Nov. 25, 1783).
Many of the loyalists went to multiple locations, in part because things did not work out as well as they had hoped in their first stop. Of particular note, many of those that evacuated Savannah and Charleston went to East Florida (about 12,000 loyalists and slaves). The peace treaty that Britain signed with Spain and France in 1783 included Britain ceding East and West Florida to Spain, so those loyalists suffered a second wave of evacuations to multiple locations.
So where did the loyalists go? The largest number went to the Maritimes (Nova Scotia and New Brunswick). A large number of Mohawks as well as some white loyalists went to the Quebec region. As previously noted, many made an interim move to East Florida. Less than most would likely guess went to Britain. Some went to the Bahamas, while others went to Jamaica.
Jasanoff does a nice job of examining the problems that these loyalists groups had in each of the aforementioned locations. She examines the leaders in these locations, and how they dealt with this large influx of individuals. She also takes an in-depth look at several families that were spread throughout the diaspora, and how their situations compared to their pre-Rev War situations.
This book had been sitting on my shelf for several years (it was published in 2011), and I'm glad I finally got around to reading it. For those that have an interest in this era, it's a very interesting read.
No one can read them all. At least you're making "Progress".
Shoe Dog by Phil Knight
I have some Tory stock (the Wheelocks went to Nova Scotia) myself along with my Revolutionary War ancestors. Oddly enough, some of those Nova Scotians were Mayflower descendants. Sounds like a good read.
For me, a recent one was the book pictured below. Yes, the author has ties to Fox News, which may put some off (and interest others) but aside from the preface, which contained a small amount of material relating this situation to today's world, this was pretty much a straight historical account, wherein the reader can make up their own minds. One of the things I found fascinating was the disagreement between Adams and Jefferson on the issue (Adams was for tribute over war) which led in part to their estrangement--which was resolved later in their lives. The author does close with that. It always touched me how both died on the same day--the 50th anniversary of Independence.
Tom, have you read this?
Tom, do you have any good reads about the PA German experience in the Rev War?
The Ghost: The Secret Life of CIA Spymaster James Jesus Angleton.
Dont know if "Liberty's Exiles" touched upon him, but I was heartbroken to learn of the long, tragic demise of Robert Rogers. "White Savage" is a good book re the St Francis raid and more.
I think "Northwest Passage" was probably the favorite movie that my Dad and I watched together so many times.
I believe there's only one mention of a Wheelock in the book, but that's going from the index (i.e., I can't guarantee that there aren't other mentions). Unfortunately, the mention doesn't deal with a Wheelock in Nova Scotia. Early in the book, there's talk about Thayendanegea, who was also known as Joseph Brant. He was a leader of the Mohawks, and lead countless raids on patriots in NY and in NE PA during the Rev War. The book mentions how at 18, Joseph, who was already a decorated veteran of the Seven Years' War, had gone to Connecticut to attend the well-known Indian school, run by Eleazer Wheelock.
While most Americans have a rosy view of the American Revolution, it was far more muddled than the common perception. Heck, even the delegates at the First Continental Congress struggled as to what was the best way to handle their grievances, and some of these delegates went on to become leading loyalists after the Second Continental Congress issued the Declaration of Independence. Gallop wasn't around to poll the colonists as to their views. Historians tend to think that loyalists made up somewhere between 20 - 40% of the population, with the numbers changing based on the particular state, local issues, who had the upper hand during the Rev War, etc. In many cases, it split families, communities, religious groups, etc.
Just starting Shadow of the Almighty, a biography of Jim Elliot written by his wife Elisabeth. My son gave it to me to read while he is in Indonesia for the Summer, beginning next week.....
Posts this long are to be immediately skipped no matter whose board it is. Are you the type of guy that leaves long voicemails?
She is buried in the same cemetery in Hamilton, MA, as my immigrant ancestor's son Deacon John Gilbert (d 1723), whose marker is still extant (to bring it full circle with the US history books we've been discussing).
I understand it's a good book. I think Mrs KG has read it, and I may have read part of it (don't recall--I have read about him, however).
Foster, North, Newcomb, and Pineo families too--the last one is the Mayflower connection.
Her first husband Jim is apparently buried in Ecuador near where he was killed.
I don't believe Robert Rogers is mentioned in the book.
He was more famous for his exploits in the French and Indian War, where he commanded Rogers' Rangers. After the war, he was the Royal Governor of Michilimackinac, during which he was searching for the Northwest Passage. Unfortunately for him, Thomas Gage replaced Jeffrey Amherst as commander of the British Forces in America, and Gage despised Amherst, and Rogers was an ally of Amherst. Gage couldn't directly remove Rogers, as he was an appointee of King George III, but he made a number of efforts to prove that Rogers was not worthy of his post. He eventually had him arrested on treason, on the questionable charges of offering Michilimackinac to the French. He stood trial in Canada, which was being run by friends and associates of his friend, Jeffrey Amherst, and ended up being acquitted of the charges.
Rogers was frequently in bad shape, both financially and from alcohol. After he was acquitted in Canada, he went to England to petition the Royal Court for debt relief. King George III liked Rogers, but didn't want to undercut Gen. Gage, so Rogers ended up in debtors' prison. While in prison, he sued Gen. Gage for false imprisonment. In an odd twist, Gen. Gage settled out of court, by offering Rogers half-pay as a Major in the British forces in return for dropping the suit.
In the Rev War, Rogers was all over the map. Due to his prior service with the British, he was arrested by a local Committee of Safety as a spy. He was paroled on the stipulation that he not serve against the colonies (a somewhat common practice, on both sides, especially for higher level individuals). The Continental Congress offered him a commission in their forces, but he declined on the grounds that he was a British officer. But a short time later, he wrote a letter to Gen. Washington seeking a command, but Washington had him taken into custody as a suspected spy. He escaped from his prison (another common occurrence in the Rev War), and offered his services to the British Army. He formed a unit that was similar to Rogers' Rangers, and it was called the Queen's Rangers. He was part of the group that arrested Nathan Hale in 1776. By 1777, he had to retire due to his health. He returned to England, but alcoholism and poor finances again caused him problems. In 1779 he agreed to go to Canada and lead another rangers group, called the King's Rangers. He had to give that up in a year or so due to alcoholism. He was on a British ship when it was captured by an American privateer (I can't recall if that was in 1781 or 1782). Once they realized who he was, he was sent to an American prison, but he escaped that in 1782, and made his way to New York City. He was part of the group of loyalists that was evacuated from NYC in 1783, and he went to Britain. He was an alcoholic, and his finances were a mess, and he died a debtor in 1795.
Stick with Twitter
hmm, the subject comes up as a small subset in many Rev War books that I've read. I can't recall one that I've read that was primarily focused on that. The closest I've come to a book on that subject is Dangerous Guests, by Ken Miller. It focuses on enemy captives during the Rev War, and the communities that surrounded where they were imprisoned. One of the major prisons the patriots set up for British and German prisoners was in Lancaster, which had a large PA German community.
It's a very good book, which was up for a lot of awards after it came out in 2014. It does address, to a larger extent that any other book I've read, the experience about which you asked.
Twisted Prey /John Sandford
I'm currently reading The Retirement Savings Time Bomb and How to Diffuse It by Ed Slott. This is all about how to handle IRAs and 401k accounts so that the government doesn't get half the value of the account either during your lifetime or upon your demise. It is a must read for those who have assets in these type of retirement accounts. The IRS rules on these accounts are much more complex than you think!
A Gentleman in Moscow By Amor Towles who also wrote Rules for Civility (which perhaps should be read by some on this Board). In 1922, Count Alexander Rostov is deemed an unrepentant aristocrat by a Bolshevik tribunal, and is sentenced to house arrest in the Metropol, a grand hotel across the street from the Kremlin. It’s one of the best written books I’ve ever read. Every sentence is perfectly phrased.
“The Unthinkable”, by Amanda Ridley (about who survives a disaster and why)
Out G the G
Chopsticks are ridiculous save for a few food items
I have not read that. But recently read a couple books by Jim Lange on that subject that confirmed my strategy to convert regular IRA and 401K money into Roth IRA money in the years between when you retire and when you take SS. These lower income years when you are in a lower tax bracket should be used to convert money into Roth, paying taxes at lower rates. In the long run, including your heirs inheriting some of your assets, a $1 Million portfolio starting just before retirement ends up millions ahead in the long run (including your heirs)...
This is next for me
Thanks Tom! Looking forward to reading it.
“Far From the Madding Crowd.” Being that I don’t teach in the summer, each summer I try to go back to my literature roots and read multiple books by one author. I decided this summer to go back, after thirty years, to Hardy. (I tried him last year but wasn’t able to persist; he puts his characters in really depressing situations and I just couldn’t soldier through.) Next up: “The Return of the Native.”
I played golf recently w Tom Coyne, an journalism professor at St Joes, author, and really nice guy. He has a handful of golf books out, and I am in the middle of A Course Called Ireland, where he literally walked from town to town in Ireland playing golf courses and meeting people. It is great. His new book about Scotland is due out in a few weeks and I am looking forward to it.
He also wrote a book called Paper Tiger about trying to make the PGA tour via Q School. Haven't started that one yet.
Good idea, Greg. I am older and have been taking SS for quite some time.
Just finished "The Nix" by Nathan Hill. Outstanding debut novel. I could not recommended it more.
I finished this book earlier today. Its focus is on the meeting between Admiral Lord Richard Howe, and Ben Franklin, John Adams, and Edward "Ned" Rutledge (South Carolina) -- a meeting between the British government and members of the Continental Congress. They met on Sep. 11, 1776, at Billopp House (now called Conference House) on southeastern Staten Island.
Admiral Lord Richard Howe, along with his brother General William Howe, had been appointed peace commissioners by Lord North's government, to try to end the problems between England and the colonies. The Tory government was concerned that the Howes would make too many concessions, which would weaken the government, so they came up with instructions which basically doomed the commissioners efforts. All they could offer to the colonies were pardons for anybody that had taken up arms against England, but only after they had laid down their arms and submitted to Parliament's authority.
The meeting between the aforementioned four men has come to be called the Staten Island Conference. In the grand scheme of the Revolutionary War, it's a very minor part. That said, it's also a part of the Rev War that is not known by most Americans -- similar in many ways to the Hampton Roads Conference between the USA and the CSA in Feb. 1865 near the end of the American Civil War.
Thomas McGuire is excellent at weaving together narratives of different participants in large events. He does an excellent job of bringing forth the perspectives, writings, etc. of various participants from both sides of the conflict. That said, because the Staten Island Conference was so brief, and accomplished nothing noteworthy, if I have a complaint about the book it is that it spends too much time on other aspects of what was taking place in July, August, and September 1776, and not enough time discussing the actual events at the conference on Sep. 11, 1776.
This is a long thread and I didn't go back to look at all the responses but I'm into Mike Tyson's "Undisputed Truth." It's a very good read and funny. I'm only 1/6 of the way through it. Long tome. He was a one-man crime wave and a very driven and focused kid for not all the best reasons. Cus D'Amato was just as nuts as Mike. I am unapologetically a Tyson fan. He is the same age as me and my high school friends and we followed his career very closely in the wake of the Rocky sequel movies that came out just before Tyson exploded onto the scene. Boxing was as big then as it ever was in my lifetime. Ali was done by then. Tyson was compelling and this is a compelling read.
Don't get your hopes up. We're talking Mr. Herschel Walker and all that SEC speed...
Just finished Stephen King's new one called The Outsider. Pretty good.
Its in the same, pardon the pun, vein as the Mercedes Killer Trilogy.
I see now its been optioned for a 10 part mini series.
Hmmm. Its pretty graphic in a couple of child murders so they will have to be careful with that.
I've heard the Mercedes Killer series was really well done but I don't have Prime.
Very enjoyable. It's the first part of his life up to the start of Monty Python.
Bobby Kennedy A Raging Spirit by Chris Matthews
what did you think of it? I was considering adding it to my book list.