Why did Spanier and Curley have any more of a legal obligation than Dravov, Raykovitz, the high school, etc.?
Also, who went to jail or even got fired over the failure of DPW/CPS to stop JS back in 1998?
Wetzel: Last-ditch effort to reframe Joe Paterno's legacy fizzles out
- Thread starter ChiTownLion
- Start date
Also, who went to jail or even got fired over the failure of DPW/CPS to stop JS back in 1998?
it is irrelevant because michnitdimwit, once again, presents a false argument
the PSU admins violated no law in 2001
the OAG admitted it.
Oh good grief! Paterno's house was put into a trust with Sue as trustee. This was done as part of a normal estate management program. Naming Sue as trustee made immense sense since she was a dozen years younger that Joe who was in poor health.
What a sick hateful statement.
Says the guy who visited Jerry in prison.
What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
Yes, I have visited Jerry in prison. As I learned more about the details of the fiasco, I came to doubt some of the narratives in the saga that were told by the OAG and the media that made Jerry out to be a monster and I decided to do some research on my own. After I visited Jerry, my doubts became a lot stronger. I am now totally convinced that his trial was inherently unfair and believe that it is extremely unlikely that he had nefarious motives in his dealings with TSM kids. I may be wrong, but I really don't think so. Time will tell. Too many people know what went on for the truth to remain burried forever.
I am looking forward to reading Sandusky's lawyers summary briefs on his PCRA pettition regarding why he deserves a new trial which I believe are due next week. I believe they will make a very strong case and that the State will have a very difficult time rebutting it.
LOL, so his lawyers told you they have a shot!!! You literally crack me up in a sad funny way. Bless your heart. I feel like I'm dealing with a 85 year old lady here. I'm sure you think you are the epitome of unbiased too. How many other PSU fans went to visit Jerry in prison? Wow, good stuff as usual.
Laugh all that you want. It's a free country and you are entitled to your own opinions and to think whatever you want to you want to think.
FWIW, my opinions on the merits of Sandusky's PCRA petition are based on the facts, and evidence in the case as I understand them and not based on what anybody else has told me to think.
I think that you have bought into the false narratives that the OAG has been selling hook, line, and sinker. It seems to me that your story is that you learned everything that you needed to know in November 2011 and you are sticking to your story without regard to any new facts, and evidence that has surfaced in the interim.
It shows you are stone crazy. And you insist on making sure every sane person knows it by your
constant babble about your obsession with Jerry.
I think you bought into JZ's sales pitch and are too upset with what happened to deal with the reality Jerry is a serial child molestor. You are his biggest fan and you wear the crown with honor. You can pretend all you need to Steve, it's a shame you cannot accept what he is. It's a great case is denial. JS is a lying POS and played you for a fool because he knew he had a sympathetic ear.
I wonder if Steve asked for Dottie's opinion yet? When he gets it, he will be super convinced that Jerry is innocent!!!!
Are we sure "francofan" is not Franco Harris himself?
If someone wants to visit JS and/or help JS with his appeals, whatever. Fine by me, it's a free country.
But the statistics are what they are: Sandusky's batting average remains .000 in the appeals process.
francofan has posted here in the past under his real name (I'll leave it to him if he'd like to post his name again, though I don't think he's been hesitant before to share his identity). That he's been a rare supportive ally of Jerry Sandusky through all the accusations and hasty judgement in the media and the courts is a true testament to his character indeed.
I also just noticed that Trustee Lubrano signed on to the petition in support of Jerry that francofan shared here a short while ago (https://www.change.org/p/the-associated-press-justice-for-penn-state/c). It's understandable that Trustee Lubrano is unable to explicitly advocate for Jerry's innocence and exoneration, but it is good to know that we have him as a strong, outspoken ally in the quest for the truth.
Nice. I assume it is a winter place but you can claim residency and avoid
some NY taxes plus get a break on your Florida Property tax.
I haven't been to Punta Gorda in a while but have heard
it has gotten really nice. Did you get a condo or a house? When you get
here you will have to take me out and buy the beers. It's a Florida tradition
that newcomers treat.
Condo on Port Charlotte. Winter place for the next 2 years, then possibly 6 months and a day after that.
I've heard that Floridians always buy the beers as a way of welcoming new residents.
Please leave a flaming bag of shit on his doorstep for all of us.
There's no authentication on the names on that petition. You could sign as Donald Trump or Jack MeOff and it would show.
OK, I'll buy. I assume you mean Charlotte Harbor. I keep my boat at my brothers on
Siesta Key. He is thinking of selling next year and I am thinking of moving it to a marina
on Charlotte Harbor. And I don't think anyone checks to see how long you stay in your
winter home. I would just claim it as my primary residence unless someone can prove otherwise.
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I know Osprey agrees with us, mostly speaking, about the facts.
But his glee over the misguided downfall of the reputation of a very good man is pretty pathetic.
He answered all my questions directly and had plausible answers for everything, He seemed sincere and to the best of my knowledge none of his answers seemed to be fabrications. I am not aware of anything that he has said in this entrie ordeal that can be shown to be less than truthful. He has consistently maintain his innocence from day 1 and has said he will fight the accusations until his last breath if that is what it will take.
Furthermore, I believe his trial was a complete railroad job. The grand jury presentment that Mike McQueary witnessed an anal rape was false and was extremely prejudicial. The lead investigators (Rossman and Leiter) used suggestive interviewing techniques in interviewing potential victims and committed perjury in their testimony. I believe the OAG illegally leaked grand jury testimony to Sara Ganim as a basis for her March, 2011 story in order to find more accusers. I believe they also illegally leaked the November 2011 grand jury presentment that was supposed to be under seal. I also believe that they charged Tim Curley and Gary Shultz in order to silence them at trial and prevent them from impeaching Mike McQueary's testimony. I also believe that the OAG knew that AM was victim 2 and that the victim 8 incident that janitor Jim Calhoun allegedly witnessed was a sham. I believe the trial was patently unfair, the results of an unfair trial are totally unreliable, and that Sandusky still deserves the presumption of innocence. That being said, I realize that that isn't going to happen. Sandusky is presumed guilty and must now prove his innocence. I hope that the Pennsylvania judicial system rules in favor of a new trial. If they do, I believe the results will be very different from the first trial.
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The truth of the matter is that Paterno in his later years didn't care about PSU"s fans and
stated as much. He practiced nepotism and favoritism to the detriment of the program.
Not to mention ignoring his oft repeated pledge to retire when he could no longer do the job.
I am not gleeful about his ruined reputation especially since it tarnished PSU's I am glad he
is no longer the coach and love Franklin to death.
Most agree that Joe stayed too long. Most were upset that Joe didn't make recruiting trips. Most agree that Joe lost patience with the media and was too grumpy. Most didn't like Jay as coach.
But it's ridiculous to say that Paterno didn't care about the fans and it's even more ridiculous to support the false narrative just because you are upset that Joe stayed too long.
P.S. In spite of staying too long:
2005: 11-1 (Conf champs)
2006: 9-4
2007: 8-4
2008: 7-5
2009: 11-2 (Conf champs)
2010: 7-6
2011: 8-1
We also had a top 5 recruiting class for 2012 until the JS broke.
Interesting how you advocate breaking the law. For some reason that seems appropriate
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Why is it funny that those closest to Sandusky are the most likely to believe he may be innocent?
I see you left out the dark years. It was during that period when fans were complaining
about PSU's anemic offense and pitiful records that Paterno stated "fans will just have to
lower their expectations". And it has been written that Paterno's coaching contribution
in his later years was minimal at best. And to bring up 2012 recruiting is really a joke.
Paterno by then rarely left his house let alone do any recruiting. Any success in
the later years was due to some hard working and loyal members of the coaching staff
And you just like the others have no idea if it is a "false narrative". The details of Paterno and Curley's conversations regarding Sandusky remain a mystery The only ridiculous thing is that this discussion has gone on for so long.
1) The CSS trials are over. If you are correct and they can dispute Mike's story, why haven't they done so. Clearly, they corroborate his story.
2) Why did the Janitor's manufacture this story? If the story was about someone other than Jerry, who was that person?
3) Why did he shower naked and alone with children late at night after being warned not to do so?
1) Curley and Schultz took a plea because of the polluted jury pool where if they went to trial the odds of being found guilty of felony convictions and being sentenced to significant jail time would have been great. Until they have served their sentence, I don't believe they are going to say anything. Gary Schultz said in a facebook post after the trial that he will eventually speak up at a time and place of his choosing.
2) Jim Calhoon in an interview with investigators said it was not Sandusky who he saw in the showers. I don't believe Calhoon ever said who he saw in the showers. I believe the OAG manufactured this story to try to include supposedly non-accuser witness testimony to stregthen their case against Sandusky and to implicate Penn State. It is amazing to me that the OAG was able to get guilty verdicts on all 5 counts for v8 when at trial there was no testimony from a victim or an eyewitness and there was no specific day and time given.
3) Sandusky has stated that he was told after the 1998 incident never to shower again with v6 and he never did. He also said that after the 2001 incident he was told not to bring TSM kids on campus again and he never did.
That's why you think I was laughing?
The reason it was funny was that Steve was even more convinced that Jerry was innocent after talking to him. JerBear probably said "hey, I didn't do it" and Steve went "WOW!!!!"
LOL.
I don't know about a tainted jury pool but you have to ask what would have happened if found guilty without a plea. Perhaps somebody can help me with this but let's assume 1 year in jail. It sounds like they thought they would only get a couple of months of house arrest y taking a plea. So what would you do in that situation?
- 2 months house arrest
- 75% chance not guilty, 25% chance 1 year in jail
IMO the bigger question is why didn't MM. dad, Dranov, Raykovitz, DPW, CPS, AG, etc. have any liability? They were all in an equally strong position to stop JS but didn't do so. In the end they simply said not my fault and walked away unscathed.
I agree Joe was long in the tooth for gis coaching days, but I always tuned in just to watch him scream at Mcqueary the entire game. Turns out it probably had nothing to do with tge game. He was probably calling him a pussy repatedly for not knocking JS out.
As far as his coaching in his later days, he delegated. It seems that CJF delegates just as much but you have a man crush on him. I do too, but I also recognize he couldn't fill an iota of Joe's shoes on the national level at this point.
The jury pool was definately tainted as evidenced by the survey of potential jurrors in Attachment B of Sandusky's 2nd Amended PCRA Petition. Attachment B is on pages 172-195 of the following document.
http://co.centre.pa.us/centreco/media/upload/SANDUSKY SECOND AMENDED PCRA PETITION.pdf
Key results of the survey for Dauphin County residents include:
1. % of people who thought Curley was definately or probably guilty: 65.0%
2. % of people who thought Schultz was definately or probably guilty: 65.6%
3. % of people who thought most of the people in the county feel Curley and Schultz are guilty: 73.2%
4. % of people who believe that if Freeh concluded a cover-up then Curley and Schultz are guilty: 68.1%
5. % of people who feel that even if Curley and Schultz are not guilty of any crimes, then they should be punished: 46.9%
I think the odds of Curley and Schultz being found guilty in a trial would be a lot more than 25%. I think it would have been more like 75% and proably closer to 90%.
If they had been found guilty of any felonies, I believe they would have been sentened to a lot more than 12 months. I would guess at least 24 months and probably more. More to the point, I believe that their pensions would be at risk if they had been found guilty of any felonies.
You make a good point about why MM. dad, Dranov, Raykovitz, DPW, CPS, AG, etc. escaped any liability. I believe the reason was that it wasn't consistent with Tom Corbett's and the OAG's objectives for the prosecution. I don't think there should be any liability for the 2001 incident. I agree with NCIS Special Agent John Snedden that there wasn't any sex scandal at Penn State, just a political hit job.
http://www.bigtrial.net/2017/04/federal-agent-no-sex-scandal-at-penn.html
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CJF is early in his career. He has shown great promise, and seems to be getting better at some of the 'CEO' expectations as he learns and grows as a head coach. Not saying he will be another JVP, as very, very few coaches ever climb into that highest tier of coaching greats, but I'm enjoying watching his progression so far. The post-JVP PSU job would have been a huge challenge for anyone, under any circumstances, regardless of prior experience.
Regarding delegation.... I sometimes think people perhaps don't understand that basically all coaches delegate a significant amount of the operation during the game. The HC is the overseer. Unless an HC is also a coordinator, like O'Brien was, the coaches plan and prepare all week and all off-season to be able to delegate specific things during the games via the coords and other coaches. When the HC can no longer depend on the Coords or the other coaches to pick up the delegated responsibilities, coaching changes are made. But probably all experienced HCs and 99% of all great coaches delegate heavily during the game. But they put in countless hours through the week and off-season in order to be able to do that.
Fran Ganter used to say that when he was OC, at certain times during some games, Joe would say to him 'I'm going to take over for a while' and start to call the plays. Fran said it was because Joe was so good at picking up subtle things either on the PSU side or the opponent's side that sometimes it was easier for him to take it over than to explain and relay the plays he wanted. He would do that for a couple series, and then when things got back from being 'outta whack', he would turn it back to Fran. He did that less with Galen Hall. Plus Galen was in the coaches box upstairs, while Fran was on the field (and in the direct line of fire!).
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