We Are better 6/21 - Tyler Johnson

GregInPitt

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Yep. Minnesota's Tyler Johnson -- who is making a dollar or two with the TB Bucs -- was ranked in the mid-500s.

Daesean Hamilton ranked in the 400s. Heck, Chris Olave -- arguably the best WR in CFB this upcoming season -- was ranked ~400 without a lot of big offers.

Rankings are useful, but staff evaluations -- more so than ever this year -- are a key piece of the puzzle. It'll be interesting to see if Johnson picks up other P5 offers as his senior season progresses.
And this year, with no camps or workouts on campuses all but the very early H.S. stars that were identified as top 200 players were pretty much miss-graded. So more than any other year we that have not seen individual workouts really need to be of the belief that if CJF loves him we should love him.
 

GregInPitt

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Exactly.

Bitching like a toddler because we use one scholarship on a flyer is pretty stupid in the grand scheme of things.

There are valid reasons for concern re: our recruiting. But taking a kid like Johnson is not among them.

Actually, saying that CJF offered this kid "on a flyer" is almost as ridicules.

CJF and his staff worked him out in person. End of story.
 

NittanyIllinois

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And this year, with no camps or workouts on campuses all but the very early H.S. stars that were identified as top 200 players were pretty much miss-graded. So more than any other year we that have not seen individual workouts really need to be of the belief that if CJF loves him we should love him.

There have been a lot of camps lately -- national, regional, and campus-specific. Things are starting to settle back to normal as more kids attend them, but yeah, the rankings are still not where I suspect they'll be in the fall. We're going to see a lot of movement.

If kids are picking up a bunch of legit offers all of a sudden but they're still ranked way down there.......trust the offers. the rankings may or may not catch up, but the offers are more useful to watch.

Johnson's offers to date suggest a kid who will probably settle in that ~500 range.
 

NittanyIllinois

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Actually, saying that CJF offered this kid "on a flyer" is almost as ridicules.

CJF and his staff worked him out in person. End of story.
I'm using the terminology of a few others in this thread. Flyer or not......freaking out over offering a kid who isn't a "sure thing" is stupid.
 

GregInPitt

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Wrestled him away from Campbell, Charlotte, and Liberty. Smh...
Taking a commitment from a guy with an FCS offer sheet in June? Next person who makes fun of Pitt’s recruiting should be punched in the face.

What head?

You don't seem to get it that CJF and his whole staff worked this kid out. Timed him. Watched him catch the ball. ............ And in their trained minds (yes, they actually have some experience comparing WR's to talent such as Godwin, Hamilton, Hamler,.... , and all the great players their teams played against over the years, and all the kids that came to camp at PSU over the years, and all the kids they worked out at the southern camps they participated in, and all the players they saw when they were assistant coaches in the NFL and at other top 20 programs,............., AND then they offered this WR a spot on their roster. Duh, because they believe they can win games with him playing WR once he gets to campus and they develop him to his potential.

Pretty simple, really.

AND given that they/PSU already have a nucleus of highly rated WR's in this class (i.e. highly rated by CJF and his staff and the second guessers, including those on this board), plus the fact that CJF and his staff still have plenty of time to pull in more WR talent into this class between now and February given that some pretty talented uncommitted WR's still are high on PSU, it's more likely that Tyler Johnson is a really, really good WR than it is that some Bozo's on this board that are criticizing this kid have a clue.......
 
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GregInPitt

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There have been a lot of camps lately -- national, regional, and campus-specific. Things are starting to settle back to normal as more kids attend them, but yeah, the rankings are still not where I suspect they'll be in the fall. We're going to see a lot of movement.

If kids are picking up a bunch of legit offers all of a sudden but they're still ranked way down there.......trust the offers. the rankings may or may not catch up, but the offers are more useful to watch.

Johnson's offers to date suggest a kid who will probably settle in that ~500 range.
Right.

You are preaching to the choir.
 

GregInPitt

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I'm using the terminology of a few others in this thread. Flyer or not......freaking out over offering a kid who isn't a "sure thing" is stupid.
A. If CJF worked him out, CJF offering him is not a "flyer"

B. There are no "sure things" in college recruiting. Rob Bolden, Paul Jones, Sterling Jenkins, CJ Thorpe, Justin Shorter, Ricky Slade,............... And I mean no disrespect to these young men as they came to PSU to do their best and help PSU win games. It's just the nature of trying to rise up in competition and excel combined with the development that is necessary to excel - it's very competitive and not every young man continues to develop to the level required to be a P5 college star and NFL player.
 
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NittanyIllinois

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A. If CJF worked him out, CJF offering him is not a "flyer"

B. There are no "sure things" in college recruiting. Rob Bolden, Paul Jones, Sterling Jenkins, CJ Thorpe, Justin Shorter, Ricky Slade,............... And I mean no disrespect to these young men as they came to PSU to do their best and help PSU win games. It's just the nature of trying to rise up in competition and excel - it's very competitive and not every young man continues to develop to the level required to be a P5 college star and NFL player.

Why do you think I put it in quotes? :)
 

Tri-Power65

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Right on cue they roll out every diamond in the rough ever known to defend a pick that leaves everyone else scratching their heads.
Campbell, Charlotte, Liberty, and Vandy, lol.
We used to call that "Pitt logic"
 

marshall23

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Agreed...and especially coming out of a recruiting year post COVID, we have to trust the coaches know what they are doing with regard to talent evaluation. We've had lots of great kids go through PSU that were lightly recruited by other teams.
Trust the coaches? Bite your tongue.The coaching staff feels an individual is worthy of a scholarship.......a random poster is not impressed......LOL Another decision by the BWI Coaching ADvisory Council.
 

OhHello

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Actually, saying that CJF offered this kid "on a flyer" is almost as ridicules.

CJF and his staff worked him out in person. End of story.
Absolutely and if there ever was a year where the player rankings would be considerably more off than usual, this was it. There are going to be a ton of way over-rated and completely missed players with almost no camps and no in person visits and abbreviated or missing HS seasons.
 

The Song Remains the Same

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Agreed...and especially coming out of a recruiting year post COVID, we have to trust the coaches know what they are doing with regard to talent evaluation. We've had lots of great kids go through PSU that were lightly recruited by other teams.
20.jpg

The 3rd from left back row ABOVE says HELLO. And #34 football and #43 basketball below says HELLO, thanking JVP for his only major college scholarship offer.
19.jpg
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The Song Remains the Same

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tenor.gif


I don't care much about recruit rankings or recruiting in general anymore, but you could make a case some of the most productive/successful Penn Staters ever were relatively low ranked recruits (Paul Posluszny, Allen Robinson, Trace McSorley, DaeSean Hamilton, Daryll Clark, Sean Lee, D'Anton Lynn, Adrian Amos, Kyle Carter, Austin Johnson, Jesse James, Brandon Bell). There have been a ton of Brandon Ware's too though.
Don't forget the guy who is in the College Football Hall of Fame. Only Tom Bradley and JVP offered him a scholarship. You know him as Vinny's desert buddy.
 
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Texas Lion

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The issue here is it seems a lot like the recruitment of such notable WR as CSB, TJ Jones, Meliek Mega, and Norvel Black.

If just one of those guys would have made a difference we would all love this commitment.
 

MJG-90

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The issue here is it seems a lot like the recruitment of such notable WR as CSB, TJ Jones, Meliek Mega, and Norvel Black.

If just one of those guys would have made a difference we would all love this commitment.
Mega and Black have had one Covid filled year on campus (very limited practice). How would you expect them to have made a difference? Just because Washington and Lambert saw the field and made some plays doesn't mean everyone should.
 

Shadow99

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And this year, with no camps or workouts on campuses all but the very early H.S. stars that were identified as top 200 players were pretty much miss-graded. So more than any other year we that have not seen individual workouts really need to be of the belief that if CJF loves him we should love him.
...not to mention that Franklin has CONSISTENTLY identified talents such as Fields long before others...Fields is actually a good example because PSU didn't even end up with him...but CJF's evaluation was nevertheless proven correct.

Edit: Kaden Saunders is a more recent example of a recruit that CJF's staff prioritized very early as compared with other prominent programs.

Also, the fact that the Tyler Johnson commitment was taken so early in the process indicates a greater level of coaching staff confidence in the prospect, not less. If it was last minute just to fill a spot, such scrutiny may be better justified.
 
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Shadow99

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Mega and Black have had one Covid filled year on campus (very limited practice). How would you expect them to have made a difference? Just because Washington and Lambert saw the field and made some plays doesn't mean everyone should.
..and if I remember correctly TJ Jones was taken late in the cycle, which is not comparable to the timeline of the current situation at all.
 
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Roar More

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He was offered after a personal workout with the coaches. Considering we had already signed 2 WR’s, he must have really impressed the coaches. I trust their judgement.
We haven't "signed" anyone yet. The one thing I have learned about recruiting teenagers, their word means nothing until they sign their LOI, and even then it's not 100%. Please respect my opinions.
 
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SR108

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We haven't "signed" anyone yet. The one thing I have learned about recruiting teenagers, their word means nothing until they sign their LOI, and even then it's not 100%. Please respect my opinions.
Correction:
We have two verbals from WR's, we have signed none in the 2022 class.
 
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PSU20

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Go back a few years when USC signed the #1, and #3 WR's in the country. Both big and fast. Neither one could break the starting lineup at USC. One transferred to NW and was a backup, the other to Houston. And, one went to the Canadian League for a couple years, the other quit football after college.
 

marshall23

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...not to mention that Franklin has CONSISTENTLY identified talents such as Fields long before others...Fields is actually a good example because PSU didn't even end up with him...but CJF's evaluation was nevertheless proven correct.

Edit: Kaden Saunders is a more recent example of a recruit that CJF's staff prioritized very early as compared with other prominent programs.

Also, the fact that the Tyler Johnson commitment was taken so early in the process indicates a greater level of coaching staff confidence in the prospect, not less. If it was last minute just to fill a spot, such scrutiny may be better justified.
I'm pretty sure CJF is recognized as an "elite" judge of talent.....just about everywhere but here.
 

marshall23

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Saquon's best option was Rutgers at one time..just remember that. This Tyler Johnson kid looks great. Great change in direction and burner speed to take it distance. This is Jahan type player.
Think about what kind of workout this kid must have had to be offered a scholarship virtually "on the spot." In addition, I doubt it was the opinion of one coach. I'll wager that Franklin, Yurich and Stubs were all "wowed."
 

Texas Lion

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Mega and Black have had one Covid filled year on campus (very limited practice). How would you expect them to have made a difference? Just because Washington and Lambert saw the field and made some plays doesn't mean everyone should.
seems like every other team had covid filled years. Why are the Penn state guys immune from not developing. Kind of why 4-5 is ok as well.
 
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Thomas1945

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We haven't "signed" anyone yet. The one thing I have learned about recruiting teenagers, their word means nothing until they sign their LOI, and even then it's not 100%. Please respect my opinions.
Stop begging us to respect your opinion. I’d have a lot more respect for your opinion if you told all to “go fu”k off if you don’t like my opinion”. Now that’s how you get respect for your opinion. Of course that’s just my opinion.
 
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Shadow99

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seems like every other team had covid filled years. Why are the Penn state guys immune from not developing. Kind of why 4-5 is ok as well.
...but even in a 4-5 season, Dotson developed even more, Parker Washington (a freshman) had a breakout season and Lambert-Smith, who was in the same class as Meiga and Black, played a significant # of snaps...so putting aside any general discussions about player development, not sure why fellow first-year WR's Meiga and Black are more relevant than Washington and Lambert-Smith...
 
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MJG-90

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seems like every other team had covid filled years. Why are the Penn state guys immune from not developing. Kind of why 4-5 is ok as well.

I didn't notice anyone here being critical of first year players on any other team. If I missed that, please point it out and I'll gladly respond to that post as well.
 

SR108

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There have been a lot of camps lately -- national, regional, and campus-specific. Things are starting to settle back to normal as more kids attend them, but yeah, the rankings are still not where I suspect they'll be in the fall. We're going to see a lot of movement.

If kids are picking up a bunch of legit offers all of a sudden but they're still ranked way down there.......trust the offers. the rankings may or may not catch up, but the offers are more useful to watch.

Johnson's offers to date suggest a kid who will probably settle in that ~500 range.
The kid is from a very small out of the way community and school. I doubt the school or his parents have the money to send him to any camps.
 

bmw199

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The kid is from a very small out of the way community and school. I doubt the school or his parents have the money to send him to any camps.
This. Even though a bunch of camps have started the rankings are still currently trash. The rankers also have to deal with the reactions of recruits, coaches, and worst of all parents. That means they can't take some of the guys who were originally 5 stars because at 14 they were 6-5 220 and projected to be all pro left tackles (hypothetically of course) or a guy that suffered 2 ACL tears before he was 17 (also hypothetical) and just make them a 3*. They have to slowly move other guys up over them and without many of the teams have high school seasons or the ones that did not allowing fans those casual corrections haven't happened. I expect the rankings will be totally different in December otherwise just trust the offers.

In Johnson's case, he hasn't gone out to get those offers because he wanted one here. The same people complaining now are the ones that would be bashing him if he went out and tested for Bama, UGA, or OSU to get those offers.