Warning to all of CFB - Jordan McNair died due to heatstroke

[N&B4PSU]

No doubt there are any number of ways to train/prepare players. As part of the process, it is incumbent on the training staff to closely monitor the condition of all players, just as it is during games.

We have specific rules for camp/practice for HS football here in MD. No back to back 2 a days, days with shells only, practice times based off of heat index, mandatory water, etc. Summer weigh room and conditioning follow them too. Kids that dont come to the summer workouts have a 7 day heat acclimation period the first week of practice. If HS programs have conditioning programs that are Dr/trainer approved at the state level, all colleges have similar ones. It just seems Durkins staff didnt follow rules.

I appreciate your insight. Question for me regards what was happening in june.. were kids in pads etc.... my guess is the coaches were likely way over the line.

Bigger issue was the (alleged) lack of responsiveness to the situation... according to the lawyer (again, alleged) roughly an hour elapsed between observation of apparent seizure and calling for help... if that is true... oh my.

Again.. thank you!

 

[dbaguy]

Yours is a fair question that I don't know the answer to. But there is a safe way to do it because teams do it all the time. We played in Alabama in September in 2010. In Miami in September in 1999. Our teams were prepared to play so there's a safe way to do it. Obviously, there are unsafe ways to do it as well.

I think that you are misusing cause and effect. The fact that players did not die at Alabama, Miami and other place does not necessarily mean that PSU, UA et al used a "safe way" whatever that means.

 

[Madsol]

I think that you are misusing cause and effect. The fact that players did not die at Alabama, Miami and other place does not necessarily mean that PSU, UA et al used a "safe way" whatever that means.

Oh good grief.

 

[demlion]

I think that you are misusing cause and effect. The fact that players did not die at Alabama, Miami and other place does not necessarily mean that PSU, UA et al used a "safe way" whatever that means.

Seems the problem here was not so much in the training method used as in the remedy once he dropped.

From what I have read, the guy was doing the f#cking carp dance. Once that starts, he needs to get in a tub of ice, RIGHT AWAY, to get his body temp down. His temp was 106 when he hit the hospital.

I also noted that he had a LIVER TRANSPLANT before he died. So they let his liver get cooked. As long as you don't do that, this does not happen. It is not training methods. It is medical care.

 

[sluggo72]

We have specific rules for camp/practice for HS football here in MD. No back to back 2 a days, days with shells only, practice times based off of heat index, mandatory water, etc. Summer weigh room and conditioning follow them too. Kids that dont come to the summer workouts have a 7 day heat acclimation period the first week of practice. If HS programs have conditioning programs that are Dr/trainer approved at the state level, all colleges have similar ones. It just seems Durkins staff didnt follow rules.

This is truly unbelievable having today's guidelines to protect these athletes from heat related illness for this specific reason. Offensive lineman running 110 yard dashes in the current heat index. Why would this be put into the schedule. Durkins mental set "we are going to make you tough" God please intercede in all your power to soothe the pain of the McNair Family.

To above according to the article they did follow the rules and.....
pretty common actually running 110
Watch
http://www.stack.com/video/2107751001/university-of-tennessee-football-110-conditioning-test

 

[SUPERTODD]

pretty common actually running 110
Watch
http://www.stack.com/video/2107751001/university-of-tennessee-football-110-conditioning-test

Pretty common doesn’t it make it the “correct” way to do things. In what aspect of the game would an OL have to perform 10 or more 110 yards sprints? For what are they being conditioned? It’s like soccer coaches who have their players run 5 miles at a shot. Soccer doesn’t work that way. It’s a game of explosion, not necessarily endurance.

The problem is the meat head football culture in this country that has to go. You don’t make players “tougher” by abusing them. You change them mentally into the next generation of assholes who think coaching is all about “making people tough” instead of better.

 

[sluggo72]

Pretty common doesn’t it make it the “correct” way to do things. In what aspect of the game would an OL have to perform 10 or more 110 yards sprints? For what are they being conditioned? It’s like soccer coaches who have their players run 5 miles at a shot. Soccer doesn’t work that way. It’s a game of explosion, not necessarily endurance.

The problem is the meat head football culture in this country that has to go. You don’t make players “tougher” by abusing them. You change them mentally into the next generation of assholes who think coaching is all about “making people tough” instead of better.

Well if u bother to watch the tape they explain why. UT was having them do 16 110 yd in a period of time. The game is over 3 hrs long. You have to be in some kind of contion to play at that level. No one wants a kid to die, that’s a tradegy no way around that. But you still have to be in shape to play the game

 

[dbaguy]

No, they don't.

Oh, you mean, in particular, that it is not done at UT? (By way of sluggo72.)
http://www.stack.com/video/2107751001/university-of-tennessee-football-110-conditioning-test

 

[sluggo72]

Oh, you mean, in particular, that it is not done at UT? (By way of sluggo72.)
http://www.stack.com/video/2107751001/university-of-tennessee-football-110-conditioning-test

It actually pretty common. Marc Trestman while HC w the Lions had them do a series of 300 yd gassers.
Iirc Andy Reid had them do a 110 yd contioning test. When George Hageman (?} failed. He had him push a blocking sled for hours. Iirc he was cut The next day

 

[bison13]

All sports have short sprint, long sprint, short distance (jog) and long distance conditioning. Soccer players need to run 5 miles a pop to develop the endurance to run for 90 minutes. Basketball players are constant start and stop but still run 5 miles at a time in the preseason in addition to the line sprints, etc. Baseball pitchers will run 2-3 miles a couple times a week in winter/spring training to develop the endurance to pitch 100+ pitches. As the season goes on they generally run 'poles' which can be in various patterns or 100 yard or so sprints/jogs and guys like Greg Maddux used to get on a bike after a start for 30+ minutes. All of these various cardio patterns develop the heart/lungs etc for not only the running portion of the game but the intensity level that goes with it.

 

[jbenedict]

To above according to the article they did follow the rules and.....
pretty common actually running 110
Watch
http://www.stack.com/video/2107751001/university-of-tennessee-football-110-conditioning-test

Thanks

 

[78SweetRevenge]

Pretty common doesn’t it make it the “correct” way to do things. In what aspect of the game would an OL have to perform 10 or more 110 yards sprints? For what are they being conditioned? It’s like soccer coaches who have their players run 5 miles at a shot. Soccer doesn’t work that way. It’s a game of explosion, not necessarily endurance.

The problem is the meat head football culture in this country that has to go. You don’t make players “tougher” by abusing them. You change them mentally into the next generation of assholes who think coaching is all about “making people tough” instead of better.

Wow

 

[jbenedict]

Well if u bother to watch the tape they explain why. UT was having them do 16 110 yd in a period of time. The game is over 3 hrs long. You have to be in some kind of contion to play at that level. No one wants a kid to die, that’s a tradegy no way around that. But you still have to be in shape to play the game

Good info. When I played we did the 16 x110 in camp. Many of us fretted just thinking about it. The only difference was it was not self paced. It was coach timed, you know "Men on the line, your MaMa isn't here"

 

[Jbwest31]

So I’m a Maryland fan and I’ve been looking around the BIG at other teams response to our situation. Yeah just wanted to say thank you. Above all the other teams I wanted to thank you guys.

 

[jbenedict]

So I’m a Maryland fan and I’ve been looking around the BIG at other teams response to our situation. Yeah just wanted to say thank you. Above all the other teams I wanted to thank you guys.

JB a very sad situation over there in Maryland. If this was a self paced run test then there should have been adequate time between sprints to observe symptoms of heat illness. I have been there before and I wasn't right for a couple weeks. Heat is nothing to play with. All Ncaa athletes should recognize this young man in some way while they play the game, You are welcome

 

[SheldonJoe2215]

Do we need to start putting weight limits in football similar to what they did with wrestling heavyweights years ago? Back in the 80s there was a run of obese 400lb+ wrestlers like tab Thacker from NC State in the hwt division. Tab, an NCAA champion, died at 45.

It's pretty obvious that it isn't healthy for these football players to top 300+ pounds. And once they put on all that weight, the vast majority can't manage to get back down to a healthy weight after their playing career is over.

 

[N&B4PSU]

Pretty common doesn’t it make it the “correct” way to do things. In what aspect of the game would an OL have to perform 10 or more 110 yards sprints? For what are they being conditioned? It’s like soccer coaches who have their players run 5 miles at a shot. Soccer doesn’t work that way. It’s a game of explosion, not necessarily endurance.

The problem is the meat head football culture in this country that has to go. You don’t make players “tougher” by abusing them. You change them mentally into the next generation of assholes who think coaching is all about “making people tough” instead of better.

Two different things, imo.

First, i have no problem with the 110's. So long as it is controlled, the players are monitored, and PROPERLY hydrated.

As to the BS going on at UMd re the abuse, that's another animal and that staff needs to be gone. For everyone's sake.

Again.. imo.

 

[dbaguy]

Two different things, imo.

First, i have no problem with the 110's. So long as it is controlled, the players are monitored, and PROPERLY hydrated.

As to the BS going on at UMd re the abuse, that's another animal and that staff needs to be gone. For everyone's sake.

Again.. imo.

" ... that staff needs to be gone." based upon ESPN?

 

[N&B4PSU]

" ... that staff needs to be gone." based upon ESPN?

That's fair... more so on what has been reported -- presuming accuracy. Might just be a few disgruntled players but it sounds like a lot more than that.

 

[bison13]

Notice how afterlast years good class with many of MD's top talent committing to MD that they cant get the top kids this year? Its because current players are telling recruits whats really going on.