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OT: USA COVID-19 Vaccination Updates

I think the variants of Omicron are very closely related to Omicron where the other variants had more distinct features that were different enough to call them new variants essentially. Like a tree where Alpha and Delta and Omicron are all distinct new branches from the trunk but the variants of Omicron are just new sprouts off of the Omicron branch itself.

The whole push for vaccination of kids and boosters to healthy people with a vaccine that has basically no effect against Omicron other than some very short term boost (estimated to be 4-10 weeks) is baffling to me as well. The booster shots do literally nothing that I can see for a healthy person that has already been vaccinated or has natural immunity from previous infection. Why the CDC and FDA are pushing these is beyond explanation. Even the UK and a lot of Europe are now telling people that they don't need to get boosted unless you are high risk.
does that mean if you had any version Omicron you likely have immunity to the others? I have Covid as we speak. I wonder which version. btw almost asymptomatic.The only reason tested was my wife was also positive. Nasty cough but nothing else.
 
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does that mean if you had any version Omicron you likely have immunity to the others? I have Covid as we speak. I wonder which version. btw almost asymptomatic.The only reason tested was my wife was also positive. Nasty cough but nothing else.
that I don't think is really known right now. I think the general answer is yes, if you have Omicron original or BA2 then you generally have immunity to BA4/5 as they are close enough (for certain their are acceptations but you don't hear of much re-infection if you already had Omicron before) . If you had Alpha or Delta, then it appears that you have very minimal protection against infection and transmission although I think that most people who get re-infected have minor symptoms compared to the first time or for those that getting Omicron is the first time they are getting Covid.
 
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Not vouching for the accuracy of this but it was posted on another site.

4g0rj2jpj6891.jpg
 
Not vouching for the accuracy of this but it was posted on another site.

4g0rj2jpj6891.jpg
The headline makes no sense if I look at the chart. the red which is triple vaccinated accounts for 65% of deaths not 80%. the 84% is triple vaccinated plus double vaccinated (as close as can be read). And no idea where the 90% comes from as the graph shows like I said is about 84% (obviously the red plus orange does not go all the way down to the 10% in the chart). So I don't understand why articles try to lie about numbers as they lose all credibility when the numbers themselves are fully able to stand on their own.

And then there is the fact that of those eligible to be vaccinated in Canada, 86.5% are fully vaccinated and about 55% are triple vaccinated. So 86.5% are vaccinated and 84% of people dying are vaccinated. So all that is saying is that the vaccine really doesn't do much anymore as the percent of vaccinated people dying versus the percent of people vaccinated are the same.

So this above graph and headline is garbage.
 
Not vouching for the accuracy of this but it was posted on another site.

4g0rj2jpj6891.jpg
Similar to recent data from the UK. There may be something to it but don't hold your breath on the CDC releasing any data on this and if they do, it's likely to be misrepresented.
 
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The headline makes no sense if I look at the chart. the red which is triple vaccinated accounts for 65% of deaths not 80%. the 84% is triple vaccinated plus double vaccinated (as close as can be read). And no idea where the 90% comes from as the graph shows like I said is about 84% (obviously the red plus orange does not go all the way down to the 10% in the chart). So I don't understand why articles try to lie about numbers as they lose all credibility when the numbers themselves are fully able to stand on their own.

And then there is the fact that of those eligible to be vaccinated in Canada, 86.5% are fully vaccinated and about 55% are triple vaccinated. So 86.5% are vaccinated and 84% of people dying are vaccinated. So all that is saying is that the vaccine really doesn't do much anymore as the percent of vaccinated people dying versus the percent of people vaccinated are the same.

So this above graph and headline is garbage.
Perhaps not the best headline but it still means that boosted are dying in greater numbers than their representation in the general population.

So the correct interpretation of that data is that vaccination does not lower deaths and boosted increases chances of death rather significantly.

It is obvious from that graph that those not fully vaxxed are best protected from hospitalizations and death.
 
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Perhaps not the best headline but it still means that boosted are dying in greater numbers than their representation in the general population.

So the correct interpretation of that data is that vaccination does not lower deaths and boosted increases chances of death rather significantly.

It is obvious from that graph that those not fully vaxxed are best protected from hospitalizations and death.
Not necessarily. Those that are fully vaxxed are most likely to be in bad shape in the first place, and more likely to die of any cause. I am not a vax proponent, and I think the booster shots are worthless. But I won't go so far as to say that the greater of number of deaths in the boosted population is because being boosted increases your chances of death. Correlation does not equal causation.
 
Not necessarily. Those that are fully vaxxed are most likely to be in bad shape in the first place, and more likely to die of any cause. I am not a vax proponent, and I think the booster shots are worthless. But I won't go so far as to say that the greater of number of deaths in the boosted population is because being boosted increases your chances of death. Correlation does not equal causation.
you are partially correct. At an 86% vax rate i don't think there is any reason to think those vaxxed are the ones at the most risk. it seems the small group not getting vaxxed have strong feelings about getting vaxxed regardless of their health condition. what does seem pretty obvious is it is hard to make any case getting vaxxed and boosted helps at all.
 
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Not necessarily. Those that are fully vaxxed are most likely to be in bad shape in the first place, and more likely to die of any cause. I am not a vax proponent, and I think the booster shots are worthless. But I won't go so far as to say that the greater of number of deaths in the boosted population is because being boosted increases your chances of death. Correlation does not equal causation.
Exactly. like saying that a much higher percentage of people die that live in nursing homes than the general population therefore nursing homes kill people. nursing homes don't kill people, it is just the people that live in nursing home are very old and sick and are going to die in relatively short amount of time.

those triple vaccinated are by far the ultra high risk group mainly consisting of the very old. which as I will say for the ten thousandsth time, the vaccine is not Captain America super serum fountain of youth potion. if you are 84 years old and have a triple co-morbidity with a life expectancy of less than 12 months and are vaccinated and die of covid, it is not covid that is really the cause, it is the fact that you are 84 and very sick and it is your time.
 
you are partially correct. At an 86% vax rate i don't think there is any reason to think those vaxxed are the ones at the most risk. it seems the small group not getting vaxxed have strong feelings about getting vaxxed regardless of their health condition. what does seem pretty obvious is it is hard to make any case getting vaxxed and boosted helps at all.
I think (don't have to time to pour through it) what the data is starting to show is that a vaccine developed for the original wild strain and that worked great against Alpha and decent against Delta really does not have much effect on Omicron and certainly minimal effect on the subvariants of Omicron. Furthermore, appears to have no effect against infection and transmission from Omicron. Hence the CDC's recommendation for healthy people, especially young children to get vaccinated and/or boosted has no basis that I can see and has at this point little basis in statistical medical facts.
 
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you are partially correct. At an 86% vax rate i don't think there is any reason to think those vaxxed are the ones at the most risk. it seems the small group not getting vaxxed have strong feelings about getting vaxxed regardless of their health condition. what does seem pretty obvious is it is hard to make any case getting vaxxed and boosted helps at all.
If 86% vax rate--90% of deaths(currently reported in Canada) shouldn't be occuring! The US is no where near 86%
 
If 86% vax rate--90% of deaths(currently reported in Canada) shouldn't be occuring! The US is no where near 86%
USA is 75.3% fully vaccinated for greater than 12 years old which I think is the comparison to 86% in Canada for same group. USA has 88% with at least one dose for 12 years and older. So not like it is a huge difference. this whole USA doesn't vax is not really true and USA is not a huge amount different from most other countries at this point. And I think what we are seeing for vaccine effectiveness it that the difference between one or two or three doses is really nothing at this point. So from that standpoint the USA is basically the same vaccine status as rest of world when you look at it that one shot is not any different than multiple shots.
 
Exactly. like saying that a much higher percentage of people die that live in nursing homes than the general population therefore nursing homes kill people. nursing homes don't kill people, it is just the people that live in nursing home are very old and sick and are going to die in relatively short amount of time.

those triple vaccinated are by far the ultra high risk group mainly consisting of the very old. which as I will say for the ten thousandsth time, the vaccine is not Captain America super serum fountain of youth potion. if you are 84 years old and have a triple co-morbidity with a life expectancy of less than 12 months and are vaccinated and die of covid, it is not covid that is really the cause, it is the fact that you are 84 and very sick and it is your time.
Some of the most vulnerable are not being vaxxed at all because the side effects could be enough to kill. My own grandmother who lives in assisted living is vaxxed but not boosted because my aunt who is her medical POA felt that it was a greater risk to be boosted than not.

I posted here a couple of weeks ago that my grandmother just got over her second case of mild covid in the assisted living community. Both times was very mild for her and she is 90 years old with some dementia, blind, and with hearing loss.

I would not assume that the most vulnerable are skewed towards boosted. I don't believe that's true. My mom before she passed (cancer) wasn't either. And the most vulnerable are a small population that aren't going to significantly change the composition of the vaxxed, boosted, unvaxxed makeup.

I would add with respect to the nursing homes, a major reason there are more deaths along with age and health are that exposures are high virus dosage and 24/7 duration. There are many people sharing the same air 24/7 so the probability of many infected shedding lots of virus in enclosed space that the residents never leave is very high. When you and I get exposed to covid which is more frequently than people realize, it is generally short duration and not as dense of virus per million parts in the air. Nursing home residents exposures are nearly always very high dose and high duration which overwhelms even a healthy immune response.
 
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Some of the most vulnerable are not being vaxxed at all because the side effects could be enough to kill. My own grandmother who lives in assisted living is vaxxed but not boosted because my aunt who is her medical POA felt that it was a greater risk to be boosted than not.

I posted here a couple of weeks ago that my grandmother just got over her second case of mild covid in the assisted living community. Both times was very mild for her and she is 90 years old with some dementia, blind, and with hearing loss.

I would not assume that the most vulnerable are skewed towards boosted. I don't believe that's true. My mom before she passed (cancer) wasn't either. And the most vulnerable are a small population that aren't going to significantly change the composition of the vaxxed, boosted, unvaxxed makeup.
the definition of vulnerable is anybody over 65 years old or obese or diabetes (obese and diabetes being the two co-morbidity that have shown to make up a very high percent of those who have died from Covid). That is not a small population subset. Data shows 81% of covid deaths are over 65 years old. 91.4% of over 65 are vaccinated, 70% of that age group is boosted which is way higher than any other group.

Point it, vaccination does not appear in any data subset to be 'causing 'deaths like some people are trying to push. that is no different type of propaganda than the CDC saying to vaccinate and boost everybody regardless of health status or previous infection.
 
the definition of vulnerable is anybody over 65 years old or obese or diabetes (obese and diabetes being the two co-morbidity that have shown to make up a very high percent of those who have died from Covid). That is not a small population subset. Data shows 81% of covid deaths are over 65 years old. 91.4% of over 65 are vaccinated, 70% of that age group is boosted which is way higher than any other group.

Point it, vaccination does not appear in any data subset to be 'causing 'deaths like some people are trying to push. that is no different type of propaganda than the CDC saying to vaccinate and boost everybody regardless of health status or previous infection.
I think we are in agreement that risk is a function of age, health, exposures, exposure dosage, exposure duration, and immune function and that vaccination is an individual decision which should be informed by that personal risk. I had been a proponent of those high risk and above 65 probably choosing to be vaccinated. I also advocated young and healthy to not be vaxxed.

I am under 50, generally healthy, take vitamin C, elderberry, and get plenty of vitamin D, fresh air and exercise. To my knowledge I have never had covid. I do often visit my grandmother in an assisted living community that currently has active covid cases and has probably more than they were aware and reported. I am good with these risks and my non-vaxxed status. I am certain I have been exposed many times. My sister's family, all vaxxed, all have had covid with only minor symptoms.

My mom died recently of cancer and was partially vaxxed but never tested positive. My dad is vaxxed and not boosted and hasn't either. My grandmother is vaxxed and tested positive twice and overcoming it easily at age 90.

The data that is very concerning is almost a 20% greater number of deaths by those boosted than expected by their representation in the general population (65-55)/55. Even if those boosted are highly concentrated in the highest risk categories which I think is a flawed assumption and counter to my own family and friends makeup, it would not likely account for 20% greater deaths than expected. We don't have the granularity of data to parse that out but the probability is low that all 20% of unexpected increase in deaths amongst boosted population is due to boosted population skewing towards the highest risk. 20% greater deaths than expected is very statistically significant.
 
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I don’t know if my personal experience is of any interest in this thread, but I will offer for this who may be interested.

Background
I am a double lung transplant recipient (nearly 8 years now) that was necessary due to being a Cystic Fibrosis patient. I became steroid and other required drugs diabetic post transplant as well as kidney deficient all placing me high on the chart of risk factors for severe COVID should I become infected.

Vaccine Results
I am enrolled in a study out of Johns Hopkins in which I draw a blood sample on a prescribed schedule 1-month, 3-months, 6-months post each “shot” with the schedule restarting after each shot.

The first and third months after my first set of two shots yielded negative for COVID antibodies. The first mafter my third shot, I was minimally positive and that number declined by about 30% at the third month. I received the fourth shot the first day that the fourth was made available for highly immunocompromised individuals. Both my first month and third mont post the fourth shot were barely positive and significantly less so than the third shot results.

Monoclonal Antibodies
Shortly after (within days) of my third month post the fourth shot blood draw, my number was called to receive a prophylactic dose of monoclonal antibodies. The first month after receiving this treatment, I “developed” antibody levels that were nearly the equal of the low end of what a non-immunocompromised individual would see from the vaccines themselves. I’m hopeful that my third month blood draw in about 3 weeks will yield similar results. In any event, I expect that I will be receiving this treatment every six months for the foreseeable future.

I’ve been advised to hold off on the fifth shot that I have been eligible to get for several weeks,

I hope this was interesting and not too boring for this group.
Good to hear from you. You had previously shared your double lung transplant history and was worried about you.

Have a 70 yr old sister in law that had a kidney transplant in March. Got her second booster a couple weeks prior to surgery. Two weeks ago got Covid and it was pretty mild in spite of her being on anti rejection meds along with prednisone. They cut her anti rejection drugs in half for five days after she tested positive. Had sore throat, headaches, weakness, muscle aches. But all is well now, seems fully recovered.
 
This one is very interesting. I hope it's accurate.

Interesting TWIST on reporting the data:

  • 1,594,695 laboratory-confirmed breakthrough cases of COVID-19 among fully-vaccinated people in New York State, which corresponds to 11.9% of the population of fully-vaccinated people 12-years or older.
  • 56,868 hospitalizations with COVID-19 among fully-vaccinated people in New York State, which corresponds to 0.4% of the population of fully-vaccinated people 12-years or older.

1.5 million breakthrough cases is more than 25% of the TOTAL cases in NY state since the start of Covid. And more than 50% of total cases in the last 12 months. My guess is the total is way low since those who were vaxxed didn't test last summer. Also it doesn't match other numbers from other more reliable sources.
 
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This one is very interesting. I hope it's accurate.

I believe we are now battling what is the normal flu. I don't think the latest strains of COVID are any worse than historical flus.

What does the future hold? Nobody knows. But what is scary is that the govts, media and medical industry have as little credibility as Milli Vanilli.
 
I believe we are now battling what is the normal flu. I don't think the latest strains of COVID are any worse than historical flus.

What does the future hold? Nobody knows. But what is scary is that the govts, media and medical industry have as little credibility as Milli Vanilli.
Girl you know its true!
 
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I believe we are now battling what is the normal flu. I don't think the latest strains of COVID are any worse than historical flus.

What does the future hold? Nobody knows. But what is scary is that the govts, media and medical industry have as little credibility as Milli Vanilli.
fun fact, the first concert that I ever went to was Young MC and Milli Vanilli in Allentown/Lehigh area. It was about 6 months before the scandal broke.
 
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I believe we are now battling what is the normal flu. I don't think the latest strains of COVID are any worse than historical flus.

What does the future hold? Nobody knows. But what is scary is that the govts, media and medical industry have as little credibility as Milli Vanilli.
I had it three weeks ago. Vaxxed (not boostered). Mine was a step below the flu. The flu usually kicks my a** due to the fever. I don't do well battling a fever. Thank God I only head slight chills, body aches and a headache. The headache was the worst part for me. It took me a solid 10 days to get my energy back. Not sure if it was Covid related or if I got used to being lazy. We are also wearing masks at the office again here in San Francisco due to our safety director panicking over a small outbreak in our office. We all made it back unharmed, but alas we are wearing masks again.
 
I believe we are now battling what is the normal flu. I don't think the latest strains of COVID are any worse than historical flus.

What does the future hold? Nobody knows. But what is scary is that the govts, media and medical industry have as little credibility as Milli Vanilli.

..and yet there are still ~120k dying per year due to covid based on current lower numbers projected into the future, a lot more than a typical flu year during which ~35k die.
 
..and yet there are still ~120k dying per year due to covid based on current lower numbers projected into the future, a lot more than a typical flu year during which ~35k die.
I am not sure. are you talking "with" or "of". I think the stats you are looking at are "with". This is something we didn't really test for prior to COVID. in many cases, especially the elderly, if someone died of the flu it was called pneumonia or congestive issues. We aren't comparing apples to apples.
 
I am not sure. are you talking "with" or "of". I think the stats you are looking at are "with". This is something we didn't really test for prior to COVID. in many cases, especially the elderly, if someone died of the flu it was called pneumonia or congestive issues. We aren't comparing apples to apples.
When you take away "with" covid then the numbers make covid look like the flu. Of course if you add "with" the flu then the Flu looks like covid!
 
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When you take away "with" covid then the numbers make covid look like the flu. Of course if you add "with" the flu then the Flu looks like covid!
Agreed...but we never tracked the flu with this level of scrutiny before. I've known people who died of "natural causes". they had COPD and caught a cold. Was it the COPD or was it the cold? Fact is, the body couldn't process the excess body fluids. today, if someone with COPD dies and happens to test positive for COVID, it is considered a "by COVID" death.
 
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I am not sure. are you talking "with" or "of". I think the stats you are looking at are "with". This is something we didn't really test for prior to COVID. in many cases, especially the elderly, if someone died of the flu it was called pneumonia or congestive issues. We aren't comparing apples to apples.

lol... you guys are so predictable. I'd love to see some of your facts/evidence that support the "with" and "of" talking point on which you base your opinion, @PSUEngineer89 and I have agreed that the excess death numbers shoot that talking point out of the water.
 
lol... you guys are so predictable. I'd love to see some of your facts/evidence that support the "with" and "of" talking point on which you base your opinion, @PSUEngineer89 and I have agreed that the excess death numbers shoot that talking point out of the water.
OK, whatever.

June 1 2022
 
OK, whatever.

June 1 2022
Last year, Alameda County in California admitted that their numbers were inflated, and that's just one example.

Also, you're right about how the flu, which just is another corona virus, never has been treated with the level of scrutiny with which this virus, which now is going on three years old, has been treated. I'm still amazed that teams are still under protocols for this.
 
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Agreed...but we never tracked the flu with this level of scrutiny before. I've known people who died of "natural causes". they had COPD and caught a cold. Was it the COPD or was it the cold? Fact is, the body couldn't process the excess body fluids. today, if someone with COPD dies and happens to test positive for COVID, it is considered a "by COVID" death.
That was my point as well, if we tracked the flu like covid no one would leave their house. Up until two years ago I never heard of a flu test. I'm sure they were always there. But if I started throwing up I knew I had the flu. And for most people covid wasnt as bad as the flu---even when not vaxxed!
 
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Last year, Alameda County in California admitted that their numbers were inflated, and that's just one example.

Also, you're right about how the flu, which just is another corona virus, never has been treated with the level of scrutiny with which this virus, which now is going on three years old, has been treated. I'm still amazed that teams are still under protocols for this.
Massachussets also revised some of their fatality data as they were counting people that had Covid weeks and months before dying as Covid deaths.
 
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Massachussets also revised some of their fatality data as they were counting people that had Covid weeks and months before dying as Covid deaths.
that's right...it was the "with" and "from" argument. people that died in a motorcycle accident got counted as a COVID death. That case got people to start looking closer and realized anyone who tested positive was counted as a COVID death. And we know how those tests, at least early on, were very unreliable. Even coach CJF lamented on how many players were testing positive. They ended up adopting a policy to test once, if positive, test again. If conflicting, one + and one -, to test a third time. But the average + test was not retested for normal people.

I also believe that there was govt money when someone was + or died who was + so there may have been a finger on the scale.

gym-scale.gif
 
lol... you guys are so predictable. I'd love to see some of your facts/evidence that support the "with" and "of" talking point on which you base your opinion, @PSUEngineer89 and I have agreed that the excess death numbers shoot that talking point out of the water.
I don't think anybody is saying that Covid has not caused any excess deaths, the question is how many. My guesstimate based on the information from other countries that track 'with' and 'from' better, Alameda county review, Massachusetts, article, and some random other tidbits of information that I read over the past 18+ months is that probably Covid deaths are between 20-35% over accounted for being 'With' instead 'Of' covid. I would go further to say that another 10-15% of Covid deaths were really people essentially on their death bed and that they might have died of Covid but if they did not die of Covid, would have died of their age/co-morbidity within a few months.
 
I don't think anybody is saying that Covid has not caused any excess deaths, the question is how many. My guesstimate based on the information from other countries that track 'with' and 'from' better, Alameda county review, Massachusetts, article, and some random other tidbits of information that I read over the past 18+ months is that probably Covid deaths are between 20-35% over accounted for being 'With' instead 'Of' covid. I would go further to say that another 10-15% of Covid deaths were really people essentially on their death bed and that they might have died of Covid but if they did not die of Covid, would have died of their age/co-morbidity within a few months.
to this day, the average age of a person who died of COVID is over the life expectancy age in the state of Ohio.
 
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to this day, the average age of a person who died of COVID is over the life expectancy age in the state of Ohio.
be quiet, that is the secret the CDC and government doesn't want you to know.

as for Omicron and vaccine effectiveness, we don't have any real good data but I think it basically is not doing much anymore just from what we hear out of the CDC.

Against Alpha....very effective, and a lot of talk by the CDC and rightfully so. basically stopped infection/transmission 90%+.

Against Delta...less effective against infection/transmission but still some, and data showing it helped a lot against hospitlization/deaths.

Against Omicrcon....we know it has little effect against infection/transmission and we hear nothing at all like we did with Alpha and Delta. Some data coming out with recent months (so any data that uses the entire subset is skewed due to Alpha and Delta effectiveness)that only has Omicron as the main variant of infection is showing the vaccine really is doing nothing at this point against it. And when we hear articles about the booster it is about antibody counts, but antibody counts against an Alpha variant that does not exist is about worthless. So the way they are talking about vaccines now and not talking about keeping out of hospital or only talking about antibody counts tells me that vaccine and Omicron is about worthless.
 
I don't think anybody is saying that Covid has not caused any excess deaths, the question is how many. My guesstimate based on the information from other countries that track 'with' and 'from' better, Alameda county review, Massachusetts, article, and some random other tidbits of information that I read over the past 18+ months is that probably Covid deaths are between 20-35% over accounted for being 'With' instead 'Of' covid. I would go further to say that another 10-15% of Covid deaths were really people essentially on their death bed and that they might have died of Covid but if they did not die of Covid, would have died of their age/co-morbidity within a few months.
Your 10-15% "guess" is not unreasonable but I think your 20-35% guess is. You have to have something more/better than random tidbits. You'd think, considering the massive cottage industry of data-twisting studies available these days, would have come with SOMETHING by now that supports the "with" and "from" argument. I'm not arguing that this argument is totally wrong or nonexistent, I just believe that the excess death numbers show/prove that it's insignificant.
 
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