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OT: USA COVID-19 Vaccination Updates

I am guessing you are a graduate of a Chicago public school based on your lack of math skills and reading comprehension.
Reading comprehension - If i believed any of the 5-6 points at the beginning of your 2nd paragraph would I be vaxxed and boosted? That is like 3rd grade comprehension to understand that.
Math skills. So you say the medical community has insisted on vaccines only because they were afraid of being over run. So i showed you that the group of people "who might question getting the shot are under 40 and healthy. Perhaps another comprehension issue? Here is where your math is slipping [or non existent]
. Step 1. 2.5% of deaths are those under 40.
. Step 2. We now hear that about 50% of covid hospitalizations are with not from Covid meaning they have mild symptoms or are asymptomatic. Said another way THEY WOULD BE THERE ANYWAY. They are not there due to Covid. I'll go slow here. 2.5% x 50% is 1.25%
. Step 3 The average Covid death person had 2.9 comorbidity's. Newsflash these folks are in the healthy category. Let's be generous and say half of all under 40 Covid deaths were otherwise healthy people. 1.25% 1/2 are healthy 1/2 are not. That gives us .63% of Covid deaths [and hospitalizations] are healthy people under 40. Less than 1% is not going to over run the hospitals.
I know you are smarter than you appear. i think you are stubborn and don't read what people post.
.
You can do all the math you want but that doesn't change the fact that many hospitals are currently swamped and over loaded. Just watch any news channel when they interview local hospital staff - it's not good and it's not made up. I have many friends, neighbors and coworkers that either work for or have relatives that work for the two largest heath care networks in PA and they are really struggling. People are leaving their jobs because they can't handle the stress. The vast majority of covid patients are unvaxxed. Even if they are just in the hospital for another reason and simply have covid, they still require extra care and preventative measures to keep them from spreading it to others in the hospital.
 
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Nice to see you found some good data!! Two differences between Delta and Omicron and I'm not sure how you would go about calculating. First everyone is testing now, where as during Delta most people that were vaxxed and got a sniffle or cough didn't test, there was no need to and most were told not to. Best example was my son's college campus. No tests for vaxxed all fall, completely different now. Yet my son got it from his vaxxed friends before Thanksgiving. Second Delta came through here and in the UK(where I'm assuming theses charts are from) while people were still outside.

Like I said I have no idea how you could calculate it but if anyone can figure it out you will!
Let's give proper credit to PSUSLU for finding the data.

I just cut and pasted it from his link to the thread.

One thing I know - if you want to educate people, you have to do the work. Most are simply not going to open a link.
 
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I am guessing you are a graduate of a Chicago public school based on your lack of math skills and reading comprehension.
Reading comprehension - If i believed any of the 5-6 points at the beginning of your 2nd paragraph would I be vaxxed and boosted? That is like 3rd grade comprehension to understand that.
Math skills. So you say the medical community has insisted on vaccines only because they were afraid of being over run. So i showed you that the group of people "who might question getting the shot are under 40 and healthy. Perhaps another comprehension issue? Here is where your math is slipping [or non existent]
. Step 1. 2.5% of deaths are those under 40.
. Step 2. We now hear that about 50% of covid hospitalizations are with not from Covid meaning they have mild symptoms or are asymptomatic. Said another way THEY WOULD BE THERE ANYWAY. They are not there due to Covid. I'll go slow here. 2.5% x 50% is 1.25%
. Step 3 The average Covid death person had 2.9 comorbidity's. Newsflash these folks are in the healthy category. Let's be generous and say half of all under 40 Covid deaths were otherwise healthy people. 1.25% 1/2 are healthy 1/2 are not. That gives us .63% of Covid deaths [and hospitalizations] are healthy people under 40. Less than 1% is not going to over run the hospitals.
I know you are smarter than you appear. i think you are stubborn and don't read what people post.
.
Hey quickly.... Mr. Move the Goal posts before you move them AGAIN....who is taking up the hospital beds right now? Vaxxed or Unvaxxed? Now it's gone from how come they won't treat people prior to the symptoms getting bad to well only .63% are dying. You move the goal posts more than anyone I have ever seen, it's pretty amazing. You went from not knowing who to ask for medical advice for your grandchild just last week on the virus to trying to explain your walking contradiction of an opinion on the matter. At least then you had the common sense to ask. Then again you do know better as you are vaxxed, but still want to tow Tucker's line. Psst, he isn't a doctor and has the vaccine and you are being played. Again, you aren't a Doctor, that much is very clear. You're apparently didn't know where to take a child or who to ask for real medical advice on one, so you posted here....pretty f--king scary, but you somehow NOW think you know more than the medical community which overwhelmingly insists we all should get the vaccine. This is you in a nutshell and why the media and Social media has made people like you really think you are experts on this.

Dunning-Kruger effect, in psychology, a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence in a given intellectual or social domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or to the performance of their peers or of people in general.

So when the medical community says for everyone to get the shot and your response but I know more than they do I watch Tucker at night or Facebook tells me......read the above line to yourself over and over again. Figure it out, you really do not know more than them. You see I'm not a Doctor nor would I be so arrogant as to pretend I know more than they do as to tell others to not listen to them, but I do listen to them over folks like you during an actual pandemic......and you know why, I believe them over your nightly Fox fixation where you get aroused watching Tucker. Are we clear where I am coming from yet or do you want this dance to continue?
 
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Let's give proper credit to PSUSLU for finding the data.

I just cut and pasted it from his link to the thread.

One thing I know - if you want to educate people, you have to do the work. Most are simply not going to open a link.
That's the data the UK has been putting out since July. Its really a treasure trove of info, its the data I always mention and have linked numerous times but like you said, you have to do the work for everyone but they still won't believe it.
 
You can do all the math you want but that doesn't change the fact that many hospitals are currently swamped and over loaded. Just watch any news channel when they interview local hospital staff - it's not good and it's not made up. I have many friends, neighbors and coworkers that either work for or have relatives that work for the two largest heath care networks in PA and they are really struggling. People are leaving their jobs because they can't handle the stress. The vast majority of covid patients are unvaxxed. Even if they are just in the hospital for another reason and simply have covid, they still require extra care and preventative measures to keep them from spreading it to others in the hospital.
My sister is an RN on a Covid wing in PA. Worker shortages are factoring into the issue. The staff shortages are causing issues with capacity and other treatments. Life Flight is now using RN’s cause they can’t find EMT’s. The hospital is now hiring LPN’s with huge signing bonuses after purging them a few years ago. She just got a $10,000 incentive to stay for 2 years. If the worker mandate on vaccinations is pushed thru things will get worse. You can count on losing at approximately 5% of healthcare workers.
 
Saw a good point yesterday made. Talked about how 50% of the covid hospitalizations are WITH covid and not for Covid, ie...Johnny fell off his bike and broke his arm and tested positive for covid. So numbers are skewed. But the guy made a good point in that when Johnny gets tested positive with covid, he becomes a much more difficult patient to handle now. all of the covid infectious disease procedures need put in place (even though just a broken arm) and that means that dealing with him takes substantial more time. One of the reasons the hospitals are so full is so much time per patient as when covid positive it is so much more difficult (even though zero covid symptoms being treated).
 
My sister is an RN on a Covid wing in PA. Worker shortages are factoring into the issue. The staff shortages are causing issues with capacity and other treatments. Life Flight is now using RN’s cause they can’t find EMT’s. The hospital is now hiring LPN’s with huge signing bonuses after purging them a few years ago. She just got a $10,000 incentive to stay for 2 years. If the worker mandate on vaccinations is pushed thru things will get worse. You can count on losing at approximately 5% of healthcare workers.

I think 5% is a bit high overall, but it could depend upon the region too.

 
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Saw a good point yesterday made. Talked about how 50% of the covid hospitalizations are WITH covid and not for Covid, ie...Johnny fell off his bike and broke his arm and tested positive for covid. So numbers are skewed. But the guy made a good point in that when Johnny gets tested positive with covid, he becomes a much more difficult patient to handle now. all of the covid infectious disease procedures need put in place (even though just a broken arm) and that means that dealing with him takes substantial more time. One of the reasons the hospitals are so full is so much time per patient as when covid positive it is so much more difficult (even though zero covid symptoms being treated).
It takes staff a lot of time to remove all PPE gear and then put it all back on for every patient. Very time consuming.
 
It takes staff a lot of time to remove all PPE gear and then put it all back on for every patient. Very time consuming.
correct. so if the 50% of the patients 'with' covid take an extra 25% time due to all the PPE procedures that need to be put in place, etc...that greatly reduces the amount of patients that can be processed in a given time. Throw in the reduction in staffing over the past 18 months due to covid and medical workers leaving due to stress, covid issues, etc...and all of a sudden the hospital capacity is down 10-15% due to staffing and now down another 10-15% due to taking so much time per patient and you see the issues of why the hospitals are struggling.
 
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correct. so if the 50% of the patients 'with' covid take an extra 25% time due to all the PPE procedures that need to be put in place, etc...that greatly reduces the amount of patients that can be processed in a given time. Throw in the reduction in staffing over the past 18 months due to covid and medical workers leaving due to stress, covid issues, etc...and all of a sudden the hospital capacity is down 10-15% due to staffing and now down another 10-15% due to taking so much time per patient and you see the issues of why the hospitals are struggling.
And that has nothing to do with that 50% having the vax. That 50% probably wouldn't even know they had it if they weren't at the hospital. How many people still can't grasp that most people don't get sick from this without being vaxxed? We know the answer is a lot.
 
My sister is an RN on a Covid wing in PA. Worker shortages are factoring into the issue. The staff shortages are causing issues with capacity and other treatments. Life Flight is now using RN’s cause they can’t find EMT’s. The hospital is now hiring LPN’s with huge signing bonuses after purging them a few years ago. She just got a $10,000 incentive to stay for 2 years. If the worker mandate on vaccinations is pushed thru things will get worse. You can count on losing at approximately 5% of healthcare workers.
I've got a friend who is a nurse who works in, mostly, heart patients. She recently quit and was retained as an independent contractor as she can make 20% more than as an employee. She is covered for insurance under her husband's benefits. She also is a smoker and the hospital was putting pressure on her to quit, threatening to fire her. No such restrictions on contractors. But what happened is she got used to working the hours she wanted. So instead of working the same hours to get the additional 20%, she works less hours to make the same money.
 
And that has nothing to do with that 50% having the vax. That 50% probably wouldn't even know they had it if they weren't at the hospital. How many people still can't grasp that most people don't get sick from this without being vaxxed? We know the answer is a lot.
of course, the other 50% in the hospital due to covid would be much lower most likely as a large percentage of those are unvaxed. and not sure what your statement has to do with anything. are you saying that the hosptial should not be testing admitted patients for covid and just wing it and allow covid positive patients to infect staff and potentially other very sick people in the hospital, you do know that is very stupid.
 
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of course, the other 50% in the hospital due to covid would be much lower most likely as a large percentage of those are unvaxed. and not sure what your statement has to do with anything. are you saying that the hosptial should not be testing admitted patients for covid and just wing it and allow covid positive patients to infect staff and potentially other very sick people in the hospital, you do know that is very stupid.
Yes thats what im suggesting. Qre they going to test going forward for everything when you walk in the hospital? This is why this wont go away. People who arent sick are being told they are sick. Going forward they must test everyone everyday for the flu. Again most people have mild symptoms at worse. Just think how many of those mild cases wouldnt be going to hospital for care without a test. Weve created a mental illness with this virus. And it wont ever end.
 
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Yes thats what im suggesting. Qre they going to test going forward for everything when you walk in the hospital? This is why this wont go away. People who arent sick are being told they are sick. Going forward they must test everyone everyday for the flu. Again most people have mild symptoms at worse. Just think how many of those mild cases wouldnt be going to hospital for care without a test. Weve created a mental illness with this virus. And it wont ever end.
it is not about people going to the hospital with mild symptons being the issue. you cannot have covid shedding patients in a hospital that then infect the really sick people there.
 
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Hey quickly.... Mr. Move the Goal posts before you move them AGAIN....who is taking up the hospital beds right now? Vaxxed or Unvaxxed? Now it's gone from how come they won't treat people prior to the symptoms getting bad to well only .63% are dying. You move the goal posts more than anyone I have ever seen, it's pretty amazing. You went from not knowing who to ask for medical advice for your grandchild just last week on the virus to trying to explain your walking contradiction of an opinion on the matter. At least then you had the common sense to ask. Then again you do know better as you are vaxxed, but still want to tow Tucker's line. Psst, he isn't a doctor and has the vaccine and you are being played. Again, you aren't a Doctor, that much is very clear. You're apparently didn't know where to take a child or who to ask for real medical advice on one, so you posted here....pretty f--king scary, but you somehow NOW think you know more than the medical community which overwhelmingly insists we all should get the vaccine. This is you in a nutshell and why the media and Social media has made people like you really think you are experts on this.

Dunning-Kruger effect, in psychology, a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence in a given intellectual or social domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or to the performance of their peers or of people in general.

So when the medical community says for everyone to get the shot and your response but I know more than they do I watch Tucker at night or Facebook tells me......read the above line to yourself over and over again. Figure it out, you really do not know more than them. You see I'm not a Doctor nor would I be so arrogant as to pretend I know more than they do as to tell others to not listen to them, but I do listen to them over folks like you during an actual pandemic......and you know why, I believe them over your nightly Fox fixation where you get aroused watching Tucker. Are we clear where I am coming from yet or do you want this dance to continue?
I am curious LaJolla, you seem to bring up “Tucker” a lot. You must watch quite a bit of him as well since he seems to be at the center of many of your posts?

From what I have seen of Tucker on any COVID policies is that he advocates asking questions and getting info multiple, credible sources of information.

Disclosure: I took that general approach, and am a big believer in the advances in medical science in the USA, am aware of vaccines here that date back to American Revolution, and fully support and am fully vaccinated and boosted.

I don’t think the process I used above is out of line with anything I have seen related in Tucker. But perhaps you watch him more than I do and I missed something?
 
I am curious LaJolla, you seem to bring up “Tucker” a lot. You must watch quite a bit of him as well since he seems to be at the center of many of your posts?

From what I have seen of Tucker on any COVID policies is that he advocates asking questions and getting info multiple, credible sources of information.

Disclosure: I took that general approach, and am a big believer in the advances in medical science in the USA, am aware of vaccines here that date back to American Revolution, and fully support and am fully vaccinated and boosted.

I don’t think the process I used above is out of line with anything I have seen related in Tucker. But perhaps you watch him more than I do and I missed something?
He advocates questions and uncertainty on something he took, his employer mandates, and why would he do that? What does he gain by saying pump the breaks even though he had taken the shot already? Who are his viewers and why would he want them to distrust the medical and science fields? It's not really a tough question when you think about it....and I get it, he's towing the network/party line.
 
He advocates questions and uncertainty on something he took, his employer mandates, and why would he do that? What does he gain by saying pump the breaks even though he had taken the shot already? Who are his viewers and why would he want them to distrust the medical and science fields? It's not really a tough question when you think about it....and I get it, he's towing the network/party line.
I think every situation is different and comes down to individual choice or choice for children.

Fair point, If Tucker has been vaccinated. He should be transparent about it (if he has not).

I don’t believe those two (advocating individual/circumstance-driven evaluation and choice and being vaccinated) are mutually exclusive.
 
I think every situation is different and comes down to individual choice or choice for children.

Fair point, If Tucker has been vaccinated. He should be transparent about it (if he has not).

I don’t believe those two (advocating individual/circumstance-driven evaluation and choice and being vaccinated) are mutually exclusive.
I disagree...Tucker, nor anyone else, should have to give up their personal health situation. If Tucker has an issue with the vaccines, like an allergy or a key reason why the vaccine is dangerous, he shouldn't be required to disclose that. Tucker has been much more correct than wrong. And the facts are, and getting stronger by the day, that if you are young and don't have any comorbidities, the vaccines don't do much, if anything. Personally, I think we are nuts to be requiring a vaccine that has only been in use for a year to people that just don't need it. I believe our govt is requiring the vaccine for those that don't need it to make is simple to ID someone unvaxxed to disallow them into a restaurant or office or school. It is pretty much a given that getting vaccinated doesn't help stop the spread of COVID.

the whole reason for HIPAA laws was to protect people from being discriminated against based on their medical history.
 
I disagree...Tucker, nor anyone else, should have to give up their personal health situation. If Tucker has an issue with the vaccines, like an allergy or a key reason why the vaccine is dangerous, he shouldn't be required to disclose that. Tucker has been much more correct than wrong. And the facts are, and getting stronger by the day, that if you are young and don't have any comorbidities, the vaccines don't do much, if anything. Personally, I think we are nuts to be requiring a vaccine that has only been in use for a year to people that just don't need it. I believe our govt is requiring the vaccine for those that don't need it to make is simple to ID someone unvaxxed to disallow them into a restaurant or office or school. It is pretty much a given that getting vaccinated doesn't help stop the spread of COVID.

the whole reason for HIPAA laws was to protect people from being discriminated against based on their medical history.
Not as requirement but as a way of building credibility.

Agree - this is private.
 
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Saw a good point yesterday made. Talked about how 50% of the covid hospitalizations are WITH covid and not for Covid, ie...Johnny fell off his bike and broke his arm and tested positive for covid. So numbers are skewed. But the guy made a good point in that when Johnny gets tested positive with covid, he becomes a much more difficult patient to handle now. all of the covid infectious disease procedures need put in place (even though just a broken arm) and that means that dealing with him takes substantial more time. One of the reasons the hospitals are so full is so much time per patient as when covid positive it is so much more difficult (even though zero covid symptoms being treated).
I love how the numbers aren't getting better, so they are suddenly flipping the narrative. CDC, Fauci, whoever. Many have been saying that all along.
 
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I love how the numbers aren't getting better, so they are suddenly flipping the narrative. CDC, Fauci, whoever. Many have been saying that all along.
Like I've said before, the so-called "experts" like Dr. F had no better ideas about how to fight this virus at the beginning of this whole sad chapter than us amateur epidemiologists. Then, they became overtly political and threw real science away. Dr. F now reminds me of what Jack Nicholson's character in The Shining eventually became. He has no business having anything to do with this matter. Anyway, anyone with a brain knew all along that the numbers were being cooked.

In the end, despite all of the ridiculous measures that were forced down peoples' throats which never had been implemented to fight any previous pandemic, and vaccines and other therapeutics, this virus always was going to follow its own course and only will leave us on its own terms. Meanwhile, you have these politicians and other ghouls who continually are looking for ways to destroy peoples' lives for the farsical reason of fighting a virus. God help us if we ever are faced with a virus with the death rate of meningitis, when we will need to use serious measures to fight it. I just hope that we will have learned from the mistakes of the past two years, but I doubt it.
 
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Wow. Pennsylvania is really stacking them up.

Another huge day, 204 dead so far.

Every day seems like this now.
 
correct. so if the 50% of the patients 'with' covid take an extra 25% time due to all the PPE procedures that need to be put in place, etc...that greatly reduces the amount of patients that can be processed in a given time. Throw in the reduction in staffing over the past 18 months due to covid and medical workers leaving due to stress, covid issues, etc...and all of a sudden the hospital capacity is down 10-15% due to staffing and now down another 10-15% due to taking so much time per patient and you see the issues of why the hospitals are struggling.
Forcing healthcare workers to get vaccinated has played a hand in worker shortages. I’ve seen estimates that 5%-10% of healthcare workers are not vaccinated, don’t want to be vaccinated. 5%-10% may be quitting their jobs to avoid vaccination. Many of these workers have natural immunity. If the supreme court doesn’t overturn the Biden mandates worker shortages will only worsen.
 
Vaccine Effectiveness against Omicron by time. For Infection, not death. Terrible.

I haven't found data for "death" yet.

VE-infection-Omicron-vs-Delta.png
it would be interesting to see the VE is boosted. I suspect the VE if not boosted is dropping fast for Delta as well. My point is have the vaccines lost most of their VE or is Omicron evading it.
 
You can do all the math you want but that doesn't change the fact that many hospitals are currently swamped and over loaded. Just watch any news channel when they interview local hospital staff - it's not good and it's not made up. I have many friends, neighbors and coworkers that either work for or have relatives that work for the two largest heath care networks in PA and they are really struggling. People are leaving their jobs because they can't handle the stress. The vast majority of covid patients are unvaxxed. Even if they are just in the hospital for another reason and simply have covid, they still require extra care and preventative measures to keep them from spreading it to others in the hospital.
To be clear my debate with LaJolla was IMO very specific. i said anyone over 40 should be vaxxed and anyone over 60 should be vaxxed and boosted AND anyone under 40 who has other compromising conditions should be vaxxed. I said I am unsure about kids or HEALTHY adults under 40.
For those comments he called me an anti vaxxer.
I don't dispute how full the hospitals are but unless someone shows me data that shows the hospitals are over run with folks under 40 who are unvaxxed, who are otherwise healthy, and are in there due to Covid not with Covid I remain doubtful it is this SPECIFIC group of unvaxxed people causing the problem.
 
it would be interesting to see the VE is boosted. I suspect the VE if not boosted is dropping fast for Delta as well. My point is have the vaccines lost most of their VE or is Omicron evading it.

VE addressed in posts 6900 and 6901
 
thanks i think. Is PSU engineer 89 accurate in 6901 where he says they are 60 effective if boosted.

Sort of, the 60% (VE infection) applies to AZ primary with MRNA booster, it's more like 70% with 2 shots of Pfizer with either of the MRNA's as a boost. The time period is still short however, those numbers are for 5-9 weeks after the booster.
 
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Hey quickly.... Mr. Move the Goal posts before you move them AGAIN....who is taking up the hospital beds right now? Vaxxed or Unvaxxed? Now it's gone from how come they won't treat people prior to the symptoms getting bad to well only .63% are dying. You move the goal posts more than anyone I have ever seen, it's pretty amazing. You went from not knowing who to ask for medical advice for your grandchild just last week on the virus to trying to explain your walking contradiction of an opinion on the matter. At least then you had the common sense to ask. Then again you do know better as you are vaxxed, but still want to tow Tucker's line. Psst, he isn't a doctor and has the vaccine and you are being played. Again, you aren't a Doctor, that much is very clear. You're apparently didn't know where to take a child or who to ask for real medical advice on one, so you posted here....pretty f--king scary, but you somehow NOW think you know more than the medical community which overwhelmingly insists we all should get the vaccine. This is you in a nutshell and why the media and Social media has made people like you really think you are experts on this.

Dunning-Kruger effect, in psychology, a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence in a given intellectual or social domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or to the performance of their peers or of people in general.

So when the medical community says for everyone to get the shot and your response but I know more than they do I watch Tucker at night or Facebook tells me......read the above line to yourself over and over again. Figure it out, you really do not know more than them. You see I'm not a Doctor nor would I be so arrogant as to pretend I know more than they do as to tell others to not listen to them, but I do listen to them over folks like you during an actual pandemic......and you know why, I believe them over your nightly Fox fixation where you get aroused watching Tucker. Are we clear where I am coming from yet or do you want this dance to continue?
Last comment then i think i will take a pass on any dialogue with you. You talk about moving goal posts. you are the classic. You read something you disagree with and then suggest that person is the extreme. Let's see who is really moving the posts
. My original comment was if you are under 40 and healthy I am "not sure" if a vaccine makes sense. Everyone else should be vaxxed and if you are over 60 should be boosted. I also said I was vaxxed and boosted. You immediately called me an anti vaxxer. I'll let anyone else reading this decide who moved the goal posts.
. Then you asked how I arrived at my conclusions. I provided data from CDC and Statistica to show you how I arrived at my conclusion. [less than 2.5% of deaths were under 40 and clearly some of them were unhealthy and or had been vaxxed] I did make the leap that the general relationship between hospitalization and death is reasonably consistent across age groups. Then you went off on the unvaxxed filling up the hospitals. I never disputed that. The only people I ever questioned were the under 40 healthy individuals who are unvaxxed and in the hospital because of Covid . If that is the group filling up hospitals I will admit I am wrong. Again going from a very small subset of folks to all unvaxxed is you moving the goal posts.
. Then you suggest I am giving advice. My only comment ever in this thread was "I am not so sure" moving goalposts?
. Finally when all else fails you launch into the ad hominon attacks. FTR you probably watch Tucker more than I do. I probably watch Tucker less then 4 times PER MONTH and I couldn't begin to tell you his feelings on vaccines
 
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To be clear my debate with LaJolla was IMO very specific. i said anyone over 40 should be vaxxed and anyone over 60 should be vaxxed and boosted AND anyone under 40 who has other compromising conditions should be vaxxed. I said I am unsure about kids or HEALTHY adults under 40.
For those comments he called me an anti vaxxer.
I don't dispute how full the hospitals are but unless someone shows me data that shows the hospitals are over run with folks under 40 who are unvaxxed, who are otherwise healthy, and are in there due to Covid not with Covid I remain doubtful it is this SPECIFIC group of unvaxxed people causing the problem.
Anti-vaxxer, you are not.

Lajolla is not an honest debater.

He makes up straw men - "masks don't help at all" is what he says we say. The truth is that the smart people say, "Based on the predominant mode of infection, only an N95 mask can work (if properly fitted), and with a regular mask, the benefits are quite small."
 
correct. so if the 50% of the patients 'with' covid take an extra 25% time due to all the PPE procedures that need to be put in place, etc...that greatly reduces the amount of patients that can be processed in a given time. Throw in the reduction in staffing over the past 18 months due to covid and medical workers leaving due to stress, covid issues, etc...and all of a sudden the hospital capacity is down 10-15% due to staffing and now down another 10-15% due to taking so much time per patient and you see the issues of why the hospitals are struggling.
You make good points and everything contributes. A quick question and not to be snarky but to make a point. If Johnny is vaxxed and is asymptomatic but has Covid and falls off his bike and breaks his arm but tests positive is he considered a vaccinated young person in the hospital with Covid? If Bobby is unvaxxed and asymptomatic, breaks his arm goes in hospital and tests positive is he part of the "pandemic of the unvaxxed crowd".
I understand both kids put a burden on the system just wondering.
 
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I am curious LaJolla, you seem to bring up “Tucker” a lot. You must watch quite a bit of him as well since he seems to be at the center of many of your posts?

From what I have seen of Tucker on any COVID policies is that he advocates asking questions and getting info multiple, credible sources of information.

Disclosure: I took that general approach, and am a big believer in the advances in medical science in the USA, am aware of vaccines here that date back to American Revolution, and fully support and am fully vaccinated and boosted.

I don’t think the process I used above is out of line with anything I have seen related in Tucker. But perhaps you watch him more than I do and I missed something?
Well said
 
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I think every situation is different and comes down to individual choice or choice for children.

Fair point, If Tucker has been vaccinated. He should be transparent about it (if he has not).

I don’t believe those two (advocating individual/circumstance-driven evaluation and choice and being vaccinated) are mutually exclusive.
I presume [haven't seen the show much in the last year or two] if la jolla knows he has been vaxxed he has been transparent. Otherwise those two are really close.
 
To be clear my debate with LaJolla was IMO very specific. i said anyone over 40 should be vaxxed and anyone over 60 should be vaxxed and boosted AND anyone under 40 who has other compromising conditions should be vaxxed. I said I am unsure about kids or HEALTHY adults under 40.
For those comments he called me an anti vaxxer.
I don't dispute how full the hospitals are but unless someone shows me data that shows the hospitals are over run with folks under 40 who are unvaxxed, who are otherwise healthy, and are in there due to Covid not with Covid I remain doubtful it is this SPECIFIC group of unvaxxed people causing the problem.
So you are for a mandate for folks that fall into your categories? Locally numerous 40, 50, and 60 year old unvaxxed folks have swirled and booted. One of my neighbors was 56, also healthy from what I understand.
 
I think every situation is different and comes down to individual choice or choice for children.

Fair point, If Tucker has been vaccinated. He should be transparent about it (if he has not).

I don’t believe those two (advocating individual/circumstance-driven evaluation and choice and being vaccinated) are mutually exclusive.
I presume [haven't seen the show much in the last year or two] if la jolla knoews he has been vaxxed he has been transparent. Otherwise those two are really close.
So you are for a mandate for folks that fall into your categories? Locally numerous 40, 50, and 60 year old unvaxxed folks have swirled and booted. One of my neighbors was 56, also healthy from what I understand.
Do I think all those I have mentioned should get vaxxed. Yes Do i think it should be a legal requirement. No

To the extent if they don't get vaxxed it is at their own risk.[ I think it is clear the vaccines do not do ggod job of preventing catch and spread] Absolutely To the extent these folks if not vaxxed are clogging hospitals is a tricky issue. Until we as a society decide to hold people personally responsible for their health I don't think we can penalize those who made the wrong choice regarding Covid. Before you say it is different between Covid and diseases like heart disease, diabetes, obesity, lung cancer, [from smoking] et al IMO opinion it is only in volume.And remember the thing we are hearing now id 50% of hospital admissions are in for another reason and then test positive. How many I wonder are in the above group.
Said another way is the guy who is 75 lbs overweight and hospitalized for diabetes and tests positive and is unvaccinated "part of the problem". or how many folks if healthy, whether vaxxed or not unvaxxed could survive the virus without being hospitalized. I think i read yesterday in a post by psuengineer 89 that the average covid death had 2.9 comorbidity's. How many are controllable and how many would have been "okay" if healthy. Who knows?
 
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