USA COVID-19 Vaccination Updates

interrobang

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Im sure that’s part of it. But there is also concern vaccinated people can still carry the virus in their nostrils and then sneeze it out, and infect people that way. I dont believe that scenario is very likely, but I’ll still wear my mask in public until the CDC gives the all clear.


I would imagine this could only happen if you have a few people standing next to each other and someone dropped a can of pepper and everyone started sneezing on each other.
 

Cletus11

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1.8M shots yesterday so total up to 53.80M with the 7 day rolling average at 1.68M. 76.8% of shots administered is the national average, 11.8% of population with 1+ dose (note this is percent of population that has been given 1 or 2 doses, so total percent that have been pricked by a needle), 4.4% with double dose. So far, 38.8 million have received at least one dose. At least 14.5 million people have completed the two-dose vaccination regimen.

Doses delivered is 70.0M compared to yesterday 69.85M. 9.96 doses recorded delivered last week (I assume that was the target 10M doses discussed by the admin). 9.4M doses delivered last week. Week will flip to start fresh tomorrow. Heard on news last week that it was expected to increase to 11M doses per week so will see if that occurs this week.

64,297 positives reported yesterday compared to 91,215 week over week. 7-day rolling average as such continues it's downward trend to 92,487. Sunday always a low reporting day but not been that low since late October.

Fatality was 1111 compared to 2272 yesterday and 1315 week over week, 7-day rolling fatality at 2569.

For Hospitalizations, Total hospitalizations in USA with Covid is 67,023 down from yesterday 69,283.

0.8M shots yesterday so total up to 54.61M with the 7 day rolling average at 1.64M. 78.0% of shots administered is the national average, 11.9% of population with 1+ dose (note this is percent of population that has been given 1 or 2 doses, so total percent that have been pricked by a needle), 4.5% with double dose. So far, 39.2 million have received at least one dose. At least 14.9 million people have completed the two-dose vaccination regimen. Obviously the weather was a major issue yesterday as that is a lowest single daily total in a month.

Doses delivered is 70.0M compared to yesterday 70.0M. So no doses delivered recorded. 9.96 doses delivered last week, 9.4M doses delivered week before.

52,785 positives reported yesterday compared to 90,326 week over week. 7-day rolling average as such continues it's downward trend to 87,603. So I assume the same issue with vaccines was in positive results yesterday as that number is crazy low as if that is real that is lowest daily total since mid October.

Fatality was 954 compared to 1111 yesterday and 1578 week over week, 7-day rolling fatality at 2481.

For Hospitalizations, Total hospitalizations in USA with Covid is 65,455 down from yesterday 67,023.

So will be very interesting how this week plays out as was yesterday all about the weather in middle of the country or was there just a large step change occur.
 
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Cletus11

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Feels like we are seeing light at the end of the tunnel?

The head Covid doctor for Children's Hospital of Philadelphia (considered the best Children's Hospital in the world, so somebody he knows what he is talking about and was very impressive) was on last night. To paraphrase, he mentioned a study in November on antibody testing that showed 3-4 times the antibodies found versus positives such postulating that since 28M people have tested positive that somewhere around 100M people have probably been infected. He said then add to that the 40M people that have had at least one shot of vaccine and you are in the 125M+ range of people that have some level of antibodies and he said that value, which he believed to be realistically true, is the start of herd immunity and why we are seeing the numbers going down.

He also mentioned that as of now, the variants should not worry people. That if you have antibodies from previous infection or vaccine, that the variants might get you infected and slightly sick (he said think sick like a common cold) but that the data shows that no severe sickness (that would lead to a hospital stay or fatality) will occur which is the most important.

So this guy was very bullish that if we can keep up the vaccine rate, that we are going to beat this thing and the numbers will keep going down.
 

The Spin Meister

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An altered state
The head Covid doctor for Children's Hospital of Philadelphia (considered the best Children's Hospital in the world, so somebody he knows what he is talking about and was very impressive) was on last night. To paraphrase, he mentioned a study in November on antibody testing that showed 3-4 times the antibodies found versus positives such postulating that since 28M people have tested positive that somewhere around 100M people have probably been infected. He said then add to that the 40M people that have had at least one shot of vaccine and you are in the 125M+ range of people that have some level of antibodies and he said that value, which he believed to be realistically true, is the start of herd immunity and why we are seeing the numbers going down.

He also mentioned that as of now, the variants should not worry people. That if you have antibodies from previous infection or vaccine, that the variants might get you infected and slightly sick (he said think sick like a common cold) but that the data shows that no severe sickness (that would lead to a hospital stay or fatality) will occur which is the most important.

So this guy was very bullish that if we can keep up the vaccine rate, that we are going to beat this thing and the numbers will keep going down.
Poor guy will probably get cancelled now. Did he say anything about schools opening? As a children’s expert he would be the guy that knows.

One hundred million exposed is a big number. Since this has been going around since Nov of 2019 it’s possible. So a third have antibodies now. Remove the under 16 yrs old that rarely get it and that number is even better.

Don’t think that is close to herd immunity but since it is the most at risk that have been vaccinated and logic would say that the most at risk are most likely to have been exposed/with antibodies, then it makes sense that spread and sickness are in decline.
 

Cletus11

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Poor guy will probably get cancelled now. Did he say anything about schools opening? As a children’s expert he would be the guy that knows.

One hundred million exposed is a big number. Since this has been going around since Nov of 2019 it’s possible. So a third have antibodies now. Remove the under 16 yrs old that rarely get it and that number is even better.

Don’t think that is close to herd immunity but since it is the most at risk that have been vaccinated and logic would say that the most at risk are most likely to have been exposed/with antibodies, then it makes sense that spread and sickness are in decline.

he didn't say it was 'herd immunity' he said it was the START of herd immunity and that is why we are seeing the numbers across all metrics come down, coupled with the vaccination of the high risk proceeding at a very good pace. Herd immunity isn't a light switch that turns on one day, it is gotten to gradually over time. There is a starting point and and eventual ending point and we are at the staring point now. The guy had all the numbers immediately at hand and spoke very well, really impressive.
 

The Spin Meister

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he didn't say it was 'herd immunity' he said it was the START of herd immunity and that is why we are seeing the numbers across all metrics come down, coupled with the vaccination of the high risk proceeding at a very good pace. Herd immunity isn't a light switch that turns on one day, it is gotten to gradually over time. There is a starting point and and eventual ending point and we are at the staring point now. The guy had all the numbers immediately at hand and spoke very well, really impressive.
No comment about schools opening?
 

WPTLION

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How long after? What did he/she die of? Was it related to the vaccine? A history of allergic reactions?

The day after the second shot, the person(26 year old, male, healthy, no underlying conditions) Lost sense of taste and couldn't breath. Went to hospital, put on ventilator. Hospital said no way he has covid. Did a test, had it(apparently) 4 days later died. (this was an employees brother) Doctor said some people immune system can't handle the second shot. He had no issues with the first. If a Doctor is saying this(at UPMC Susquehanna) why is no one talking about it. I will say UPMC has been the one hospital group not buying into everything that has been put out on the virus.
 

WPTLION

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It’s a good thing none of the vaccines are gene therapy then. But you should see how good my 5G reception after receiving the first Moderna injection. Amazing stuff.

Except they are...at least the two that are currently being used. J&J is not, there is actually virus in that. Not sure about the others that are coming.
 

WPTLION

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he didn't say it was 'herd immunity' he said it was the START of herd immunity and that is why we are seeing the numbers across all metrics come down, coupled with the vaccination of the high risk proceeding at a very good pace. Herd immunity isn't a light switch that turns on one day, it is gotten to gradually over time. There is a starting point and and eventual ending point and we are at the staring point now. The guy had all the numbers immediately at hand and spoke very well, really impressive.

My point was you can't get herd immunity from something that doesn't give you immunity. How can you have immunity if you can still spread it? If they want everyone to get it and it created immunity tell everyone when they get it they can lose the mask and no more social distancing. Now if you want to say people who have the shot won't get sick or as sick if they get it then you can get to herd immunity after they get it.
 

ThePennsyOracle

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Except they are...at least the two that are currently being used. J&J is not, there is actually virus in that. Not sure about the others that are coming.

So do you think my genes are now making microchips and increasing 5G reception by themselves?
 

ThePennsyOracle

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My point was you can't get herd immunity from something that doesn't give you immunity. How can you have immunity if you can still spread it? If they want everyone to get it and it created immunity tell everyone when they get it they can lose the mask and no more social distancing. Now if you want to say people who have the shot won't get sick or as sick if they get it then you can get to herd immunity after they get it.

And what "evidence" do you have that the mRNA shots don't give you any immunity, and that the mRNA vaccines still don't prevent spreading the virus to others?
 

The Spin Meister

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The day after the second shot, the person(26 year old, male, healthy, no underlying conditions) Lost sense of taste and couldn't breath. Went to hospital, put on ventilator. Hospital said no way he has covid. Did a test, had it(apparently) 4 days later died. (this was an employees brother) Doctor said some people immune system can't handle the second shot. He had no issues with the first. If a Doctor is saying this(at UPMC Susquehanna) why is no one talking about it. I will say UPMC has been the one hospital group not buying into everything that has been put out on the virus.
Really strange because the vaccine has no virus in it so it couldn’t have caused Covid. Perhaps he got it prior to second shot as first shot gives only 50% immunity. Or it was some kind of reaction to the shot.....or even nothing to do with shot but coincidental. This needs further research to understand just what happened.

Very sorry to hear about your friend’s loss.
 

interrobang

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Except they are...at least the two that are currently being used. J&J is not, there is actually virus in that. Not sure about the others that are coming.


But they aren't. I know it's a fun thing for the anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists to harp on, but mRNA vaccines simply are not gene therapy since they don't interact with DNA.

Both J&J and AstraZeneca use deactivated adenovirus (common cold ) as the delivery mechanism.
 

WPTLION

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Really strange because the vaccine has no virus in it so it couldn’t have caused Covid. Perhaps he got it prior to second shot as first shot gives only 50% immunity. Or it was some kind of reaction to the shot.....or even nothing to do with shot but coincidental. This needs further research to understand just what happened.

Very sorry to hear about your friend’s loss.

Right it could be a coincidence but the DR said the second shot causes issues with some people's immune system. And I agree there is something there that needs looked into
 

WPTLION

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And what "evidence" do you have that the mRNA shots don't give you any immunity, and that the mRNA vaccines still don't prevent spreading the virus to others?

Well what "evidence" do you have that they do? Ummm listen to Fauci he said you can still spread it. I mean he is GOD right? I've heard ZERO people talk about not being able to spread it. So if you can spread it and get it you aren't immune.

But they aren't. I know it's a fun thing for the anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists to harp on, but mRNA vaccines simply are not gene therapy since they don't interact with DNA.

Both J&J and AstraZeneca use deactivated adenovirus (common cold ) as the delivery mechanism.


But the aren't vaccines....very similar to Richard Levine...you can say he's a woman but he's not. Just because someone says its a vaccine doesn't make it one when it doesn't make you immune. The J&J and AZ based on everything I heard are....and they sound like they have the same success rate as the flu shot.
 

The Spin Meister

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Well what "evidence" do you have that they do? Ummm listen to Fauci he said you can still spread it. I mean he is GOD right? I've heard ZERO people talk about not being able to spread it. So if you can spread it and get it you aren't immune.


But the aren't vaccines....very similar to Richard Levine...you can say he's a woman but he's not. Just because someone says its a vaccine doesn't make it one when it doesn't make you immune. The J&J and AZ based on everything I heard are....and they sound like they have the same success rate as the flu shot.

The vaccine makes the body make antibodies to the spike proteins on the virus thus making people immune to getting the disease. But it is POSSIBLE that people can still spread it because the virus can lodge in the sinuses and be spread by coughing. No one knows how likely this is, how likely such an exposure would cause illness, if it actually would happen. Talk about spreading after vaccination is mostly fear porn. Slightly possible and even if possible it would be rare.
 
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Cletus11

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No comment about schools opening?

the segment was supposed to touch on that but did not. The other person that was interviewed at same time as the CHOP doctor was a former health director for city of Baltimore. her opening statement literally blamed Trump for kids not being in school due to his failed policy and Trump put these kids and teachers at risk. It was really bad talking points and not germane to the interview. after the CHOP doctor talked, her next question she turned to the masking and how everybody has to wear masks and to not wear masks is bad, etc...and her final question she went on how variants are coming and we are going to be right back to where we were before and the numbers are down but still way more than the summer so we are still in a really bad situation that if Trump would have done his job we would not be in. she was just horrible as she added nothing to the conversation medically, scientifically or policy wise, purely their to hatchet and spew talking points.

so when you heard he answers which were 100% political and then heard the CHOP doctor talk it was just strikingly different.

The commentator did say the CDC guidelines are dumb as 89% of schools are in the 'red zone' meaning they cannot open up so what was the point of putting those guidelines out especially when the data shows schools can open up safely as many schools have and things are going fine in all those locations they have studied. Also agreed that there is no reason teachers are not all vaccinated as highest priority as that would settle everything and has no idea why that is not happening.
 
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ThePennsyOracle

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Well what "evidence" do you have that they do? Ummm listen to Fauci he said you can still spread it. I mean he is GOD right? I've heard ZERO people talk about not being able to spread it. So if you can spread it and get it you aren't immune.




But the aren't vaccines....very similar to Richard Levine...you can say he's a woman but he's not. Just because someone says its a vaccine doesn't make it one when it doesn't make you immune. The J&J and AZ based on everything I heard are....and they sound like they have the same success rate as the flu shot.

Fauci has repeatedly said that it is unclear whether COVID can be spread after mRNA vaccination, as has Scott Gottleib, former FDA chair. Put down the crack pipe and get away from Breitbart and OAN.
 
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Cletus11

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Fauci has repeatedly said that it is unclear whether COVID can be spread after mRNA vaccination, as has Scott Gottleib, former FDA chair. Put down the crack pipe and get away from Breitbart and OAN.

what i heard also. or they said if you are 'infectious' it will be for a much shorter time and less contagious as the viral load will be greatly decreased.

WPT....are you saying we should not be vaccinating? What is your point in all of this.
 

LMTLION

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The day after the second shot, the person(26 year old, male, healthy, no underlying conditions) Lost sense of taste and couldn't breath. Went to hospital, put on ventilator. Hospital said no way he has covid. Did a test, had it(apparently) 4 days later died. (this was an employees brother) Doctor said some people immune system can't handle the second shot. He had no issues with the first. If a Doctor is saying this(at UPMC Susquehanna) why is no one talking about it. I will say UPMC has been the one hospital group not buying into everything that has been put out on the virus.
Covid requires 2 to 14 days to incubate, and it takes 14 days after second dose to get to actual full immunity. This person got covid prior to dose 2 and prior to immunity 14 days later. These two vaccines work by stimulating the body to produce a protein that mimics the virus. There is no virus in the vaccine. It is literally impossible to get covid from the vaccines. There is so much misinformation out there it is unbelievable.
 

Cletus11

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0.8M shots yesterday so total up to 54.61M with the 7 day rolling average at 1.64M. 78.0% of shots administered is the national average, 11.9% of population with 1+ dose (note this is percent of population that has been given 1 or 2 doses, so total percent that have been pricked by a needle), 4.5% with double dose. So far, 39.2 million have received at least one dose. At least 14.9 million people have completed the two-dose vaccination regimen. Obviously the weather was a major issue yesterday as that is a lowest single daily total in a month.

Doses delivered is 70.0M compared to yesterday 70.0M. So no doses delivered recorded. 9.96 doses delivered last week, 9.4M doses delivered week before.

52,785 positives reported yesterday compared to 90,326 week over week. 7-day rolling average as such continues it's downward trend to 87,603. So I assume the same issue with vaccines was in positive results yesterday as that number is crazy low as if that is real that is lowest daily total since mid October.

Fatality was 954 compared to 1111 yesterday and 1578 week over week, 7-day rolling fatality at 2481.

For Hospitalizations, Total hospitalizations in USA with Covid is 65,455 down from yesterday 67,023.

So will be very interesting how this week plays out as was yesterday all about the weather in middle of the country or was there just a large step change occur.

1.5M shots yesterday so total up to 56.10M with the 7 day rolling average at 1.67M. 78.3% of shots administered is the national average, 12.2% of population with 1+ dose (note this is percent of population that has been given 1 or 2 doses, so total percent that have been pricked by a needle), 4.7% with double dose. So far, 40.2 million have received at least one dose. At least 15.6 million people have completed the two-dose vaccination regimen.

Doses delivered is 71.65M compared to yesterday 70.0M. 1.65M doses delivered this week. 9.96M doses delivered last week, 9.4M doses delivered week before.

63,398 positives reported yesterday compared to 96,857 week over week. 7-day rolling average as such continues it's downward trend to 82,841.

Fatality was 1787 compared to 954 yesterday and 3265 week over week, 7-day rolling fatality at 2270.

For Hospitalizations, Total hospitalizations in USA with Covid is 64,533 down from yesterday 65,455.

So either the weather is having some large reporting effect or we are in the process of a huge downswing. We just dropped 25K positives per day in a week in the 7 day rolling average and the last 3 days are 25K lower than last week for the same day. Fatality chart just dropped 635 fatalities per day in the 7 day in the last week. Both charts are now in true free fall. If we can keep this up this week, will be a monumental pivotal week that people look back and say this is the week that was the turning point.
 
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interrobang

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There have been delays in shipping the vaccine this week due to the weather, but I'd imagine that rebounds fast.
 
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Cletus11

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There have been delays in shipping the vaccine this week due to the weather, but I'd imagine that rebounds fast.

yeah, hopefully mother nature plays nice here the next month and milds out some so we don't have these issues around the country with cold and snow that set things back a few days. at the same time, very cold and snow also act sort of like a lockdown as nobody is doing anything but staying home in those areas, so i think it balances out a little bit in some respect.

I am really anxious to see the numbers rest of week to see if the last few days are weather related reporting or real numbers as if they are real, then wow. I mean if these are real, and J&J gets approved next week and start shipping out first week of March, and March weather holds up such that we can average 2M per day of vaccines, we can break Covid's back by end of March and put it to bed in April/May.
 

interrobang

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But the aren't vaccines....very similar to Richard Levine...you can say he's a woman but he's not. Just because someone says its a vaccine doesn't make it one when it doesn't make you immune. The J&J and AZ based on everything I heard are....and they sound like they have the same success rate as the flu shot.

THen many of the things we call vaccines aren't vaccines, including the flu shot (which is actually much LESS effective than these covid vaccines are projected to be)
 
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Cletus11

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Well what "evidence" do you have that they do? Ummm listen to Fauci he said you can still spread it. I mean he is GOD right? I've heard ZERO people talk about not being able to spread it. So if you can spread it and get it you aren't immune.
But the aren't vaccines....very similar to Richard Levine...you can say he's a woman but he's not. Just because someone says its a vaccine doesn't make it one when it doesn't make you immune. The J&J and AZ based on everything I heard are....and they sound like they have the same success rate as the flu shot.

Again...what is the point you are trying to make in all this? I don't get it other than being contrarian?
 

Steve G

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Well what "evidence" do you have that they do? Ummm listen to Fauci he said you can still spread it. I mean he is GOD right? I've heard ZERO people talk about not being able to spread it. So if you can spread it and get it you aren't immune.




But the aren't vaccines....very similar to Richard Levine...you can say he's a woman but he's not. Just because someone says its a vaccine doesn't make it one when it doesn't make you immune. The J&J and AZ based on everything I heard are....and they sound like they have the same success rate as the flu shot.

In mid-January, the number of COVID-19 cases and hospitalization started to decline, with a larger and earlier decrease among older individuals. This trend was more evident in early-vaccinated compared to late-vaccinated cities. Such a pattern was not observed in the previous lockdown. Our analysis demonstrates evidence for the real-life effectiveness of a national vaccination campaign in Israel on the pandemic dynamics.
 

The Spin Meister

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yeah, hopefully mother nature plays nice here the next month and milds out some so we don't have these issues around the country with cold and snow that set things back a few days. at the same time, very cold and snow also act sort of like a lockdown as nobody is doing anything but staying home in those areas, so i think it balances out a little bit in some respect.

I am really anxious to see the numbers rest of week to see if the last few days are weather related reporting or real numbers as if they are real, then wow. I mean if these are real, and J&J gets approved next week and start shipping out first week of March, and March weather holds up such that we can average 2M per day of vaccines, we can break Covid's back by end of March and put it to bed in April/May.
Great news! Just like I was telling you in Dec!
 
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katchthis

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My point was you can't get herd immunity from something that doesn't give you immunity. How can you have immunity if you can still spread it? If they want everyone to get it and it created immunity tell everyone when they get it they can lose the mask and no more social distancing. Now if you want to say people who have the shot won't get sick or as sick if they get it then you can get to herd immunity after they get it.
The definition of immunity says nothing about the ability of the immune person to prevent the transfer the infection to another person. The antibody and associated immune response seen by the mRNA vaccines far exceeds the levels seen in the wild infections.
im·mu·ni·ty
/iˈmyo͞onədē/
Learn to pronounce

noun

  1. the ability of an organism to resist a particular infection or toxin by the action of specific antibodies or sensitized white blood cells.

 
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crazytoadie

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Well what "evidence" do you have that they do? Ummm listen to Fauci he said you can still spread it. I mean he is GOD right? I've heard ZERO people talk about not being able to spread it. So if you can spread it and get it you aren't immune.




But the aren't vaccines....very similar to Richard Levine...you can say he's a woman but he's not. Just because someone says its a vaccine doesn't make it one when it doesn't make you immune. The J&J and AZ based on everything I heard are....and they sound like they have the same success rate as the flu shot.

You’re incorrect on most points about the vaccine.

1) The mRNA vaccines do induce production of antibodies to increase your immune response. A brief summary of the antibodies levels for Moderna’s vaccine can be found at https://www.fda.gov/media/144583/download (see slides 24 -26). It is patently false to claim that “you need the virus to build antibodies”.

2) It takes 10 - 14 days from first vaccine dose develop around 60+% vaccine efficacy so it is entirely possible to contract COVID naturally between the first and second doses. Since your immunity from vaccine is still developing through 14 days or so from second dose, your immunity is limited not absolute during this period. In other words, your friend was vaccinated but not yet immunized. The timing of his infection is very unfortunate as he was days away from likely having sufficient immunity and we are all sympathetic to your loss.

3) These are not regulated as gene therapies because they don’t repair, replace, add, or delete a genetic sequence nor are they of recombinant origin. Some may consider mRNA as a gene therapy broadly because it contains genetic material but it is different than what is regulated as a “gene therapy” product by FDA.

4) The Janssen vaccine (J&J) does not contain actual SARS-CoV-2 virus. It contains only a portion of DNA that codes for the spike protein of the SARS-CoV-2 virus within an adenovirus. The adenovirus used is a modified virus that doesn’t replicate in the cell or cause infection. It is patently false that the J&J vaccine or Astra-Zeneca vaccine use actual SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus.
 
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LCFP79

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1) The mRNA vaccines do induce production of antibodies to increase your immune response. A brief summary of the antibodies levels for Moderna’s vaccine can be found at https://www.fda.gov/media/144583/download (see slides 24 -26). It is patently false to claim that “you need the virus to build antibodies”.

Thanks for the link. The issue about a mRNA vaccine producing immunity needs to be clarified. The vaccine could prevent disease without preventing infection. I'm quite sure the vaccine makers know if this is the case but they haven't told us. We have been told that the vaccines stimulate production of neutralizing antibodies. These are IgG antibodies in the bloodstream. If the surface lining cells in your nose or lungs or gut get infected these antibodies will prevent the virus from spreading throughout your body and you may have no symptoms. The disease has been prevented but you are still infected. You probably can spread the virus to other people. Eventually you will develop "real" immunity and you will eliminate the virus from your nose, or your gut whatever.

But if the vaccine stimulates production of secretory IgA antibodies then it can prevent infection. These antibodies are secreted through your mucosal lining cells into the secretions that you blow out of your nose etc and they can neutralize the virus BEFORE it infects those lining cells. Any virus that you inhale does not replicate in those lining cells and you do not disperse billions of virus particles whenever you cough, sneeze or just exhale. You not only don't have the disease, you are not infected.

For some reason I can't find any studies or producer info that mention production of S-IgA. If someone can find it that would be helpful. I am quite sure Pfizer and Moderna know if this is the case. If these antibodies are produced they probably would have told us. Since they didn't my guess is that they are not produced. Perhaps the above poster knows about this.
 
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interrobang

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At the end of the day all the vaccines do the exact same thing: trigger an immune response against the spike protein that covid uses to attach to cells

Debate how they do that, but that's what they do.
 

MJG-90

Well-Known Member
Jan 23, 2018
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The day after the second shot, the person(26 year old, male, healthy, no underlying conditions) Lost sense of taste and couldn't breath. Went to hospital, put on ventilator. Hospital said no way he has covid. Did a test, had it(apparently) 4 days later died. (this was an employees brother) Doctor said some people immune system can't handle the second shot. He had no issues with the first. If a Doctor is saying this(at UPMC Susquehanna) why is no one talking about it. I will say UPMC has been the one hospital group not buying into everything that has been put out on the virus.

Over 15 million people in the US (and who knows how many worldwide) have received two doses of a vaccine. If this situation was even remotely common we probably would be talking about it.

My point was you can't get herd immunity from something that doesn't give you immunity. How can you have immunity if you can still spread it?

Why do you keep saying the vaccines don't give you immunity? If the vaccine prevents the coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) from giving you COVID-19, you have immunity. That also doesn't prevent you from passing the coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) to someone else. Although the book is still being written on that second part.


If you'd read the CDC website more, you could get both questions answered:

COVID-19 vaccines help our bodies develop immunity to the virus that causes COVID-19 without us having to get the illness. Different types of vaccines work in different ways to offer protection, but with all types of vaccines, the body is left with a supply of “memory” T-lymphocytes as well as B-lymphocytes that will remember how to fight that virus in the future.

It typically takes a few weeks for the body to produce T-lymphocytes and B-lymphocytes after vaccination. Therefore, it is possible that a person could be infected with the virus that causes COVID-19 just before or just after vaccination and then get sick because the vaccine did not have enough time to provide protection.

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The Spin Meister

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Nov 27, 2012
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An altered state
Thanks for the link. The issue about a mRNA vaccine producing immunity needs to be clarified. The vaccine could prevent disease without preventing infection. I'm quite sure the vaccine makers know if this is the case but they haven't told us. We have been told that the vaccines stimulate production of neutralizing antibodies. These are IgG antibodies in the bloodstream. If the surface lining cells in your nose or lungs or gut get infected these antibodies will prevent the virus from spreading throughout your body and you may have no symptoms. The disease has been prevented but you are still infected. You probably can spread the virus to other people. Eventually you will develop "real" immunity and you will eliminate the virus from your nose, or your gut whatever.

But if the vaccine stimulates production of secretory IgA antibodies then it can prevent infection. These antibodies are secreted through your mucosal lining cells into the secretions that you blow out of your nose etc and they can neutralize the virus BEFORE it infects those lining cells. Any virus that you inhale does not replicate in those lining cells and you do not disperse billions of virus particles whenever you cough, sneeze or just exhale. You not only don't have the disease, you are not infected.

For some reason I can't find any studies or producer info that mention production of S-IgA. If someone can find it that would be helpful. I am quite sure Pfizer and Moderna know if this is the case. If these antibodies are produced they probably would have told us. Since they didn't my guess is that they are not produced. Perhaps the above poster knows about this.
Please define what your definition of immunity is. To me, it means the virus cannot enter any cells and replicate. If the antibodies prevent this from happening, then you have immunity. Having a few viruses existing.....viruses are not alive.......in your mucosal fluids or on your body doesn't mean you are infected. If that were the definition then the vast majority of us is infected with dozens of diseases.
 
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