USA COVID-19 Vaccination Updates

tlbakernc

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What happened to this chat? For the longest time the COVID fear mongers engaged in a back-and-forth with the truth seekers, but it seems like the fear mongering crowd is running out of ammo. All that's left are the people who saw through this b.s. all along.
9/10 month after infection, still producing antibodies. Only reason, and a damn good reason, I’m not vaccinated. I miss the good old days of being called a killer or people saying I should die. Someone mentioned a few posts up about thinning the herd because a county has a low vaccination rate. One question for people like that. What eff is wrong with you? Wishing death on innocent people? That one is sure to come back on the poster.
 

PSUEngineer89

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Aug 14, 2021
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9/10 month after infection, still producing antibodies. Only reason, and a damn good reason, I’m not vaccinated. I miss the good old days of being called a killer or people saying I should die. Someone mentioned a few posts up about thinning the herd because a county has a low vaccination rate. One question for people like that. What eff is wrong with you? Wishing death on innocent people? That one is sure to come back on the poster.
Obviously, and without question, natural immunity is superior to vaccinated immunity.

Only someone as stupid as Walensky could think otherwise.

Now, does a vaccine 12 months after natural immunity occurs help? Probably.
 
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Cletus11

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Obviously, and without question, natural immunity is superior to vaccinated immunity.

Only someone as stupid as Walensky could think otherwise.

Now, does a vaccine 12 months after natural immunity occurs help? Probably.

Am I remembering correctly that around the time of the Lancet hatchet job on HCQ (which was friday afternoon news dump later shown as completely false and bought and paid for) that there was a similar set of articles that went about saying that natural immunity was not good for Covid and that it waned very quickley and that vaccination was better. I remember at the time thinking that makes zero sense from a scientific standpoint. To this day, the fact that natural immunity is not 'allowed to be considered when it can be tested for continues to show me that medical science in NOT making decision buy politics is making decisions.
 

tlbakernc

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Obviously, and without question, natural immunity is superior to vaccinated immunity.

Only someone as stupid as Walensky could think otherwise.

Now, does a vaccine 12 months after natural immunity occurs help? Probably.
Sadly we may never know. The CDC has decided vaccination is the only option. CDC has failed to track natural immunity for 2.5 years.
 

tlbakernc

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Am I remembering correctly that around the time of the Lancet hatchet job on HCQ (which was friday afternoon news dump later shown as completely false and bought and paid for) that there was a similar set of articles that went about saying that natural immunity was not good for Covid and that it waned very quickley and that vaccination was better. I remember at the time thinking that makes zero sense from a scientific standpoint. To this day, the fact that natural immunity is not 'allowed to be considered when it can be tested for continues to show me that medical science in NOT making decision buy politics is making decisions.
The only reason I continue to get tested for antibodies is keeping myself and others informed. Again, I’m 9/10 post infection and still producing antibodies. I realize everyone is different. Some may drop off after a few months others much much longer. Even if you’re not actively producing antibodies it doesn’t mean you’re not protected. Human body has away of remembering past infections and quickly fighting them off.
 
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WPTLION

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Well this is still the CDC's official stance. When the change this, the fat lady will start singing!

You should get a COVID-19 vaccine even if you already had COVID-19.

Getting sick with COVID-19 offers some protection from future illness with COVID-19, sometimes called “natural immunity.” The level of protection people get from having COVID-19 may vary depending on how mild or severe their illness was, the time since their infection, and their age. No currently available test can reliably determine if a person is protected from infection.

All COVID-19 vaccines currently available in the United States are effective at preventing COVID-19. Getting a COVID-19 vaccine gives most people a high level of protection against COVID-19 even in people who have already been sick with COVID-19.

Emerging evidence shows that getting a COVID-19 vaccine after you recover from COVID-19 infection provides added protection to your immune system. One study showed that, for people who already had COVID-19, those who do not get vaccinated after their recovery are more than 2 times as likely to get COVID-19 again than those who get fully vaccinated after their recovery.

People who were treated for COVID-19 with monoclonal antibodies or convalescent plasma or people who have a history of multisystem inflammatory syndrome in adults or children (MIS-A or MIS-C) may need to wait a while after recovering before they can get vaccinated. Talk to your doctor if you are unsure what treatments you received or if you have more questions about getting a COVID-19 vaccine.
 
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PSUEngineer89

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Am I remembering correctly that around the time of the Lancet hatchet job on HCQ (which was friday afternoon news dump later shown as completely false and bought and paid for) that there was a similar set of articles that went about saying that natural immunity was not good for Covid and that it waned very quickley and that vaccination was better. I remember at the time thinking that makes zero sense from a scientific standpoint. To this day, the fact that natural immunity is not 'allowed to be considered when it can be tested for continues to show me that medical science in NOT making decision buy politics is making decisions.
You remember correctly.

However, readers of this thread knew that natural immunity was superior to vaccinated immunity many, many months ago.
 

Obliviax

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My daughter got a notice from her school on Sunday that she had been contact traced. A swim team member had tested positive. The email stated that she needed to get a "proctored" test (I found out later that this meant the home tests were not good enough) in order to return to the team or any other school-sponsored activity. After we emailed the principle, we were told she can go to school but not events. Go figure.

So she got tested on Monday and were told it would take three days (what good is the test?). So she went to school on Tuesday but skipped swim practice. Then we got the test back as "negative" so she went to the swim meet Wednesday. The rule is that if you don't practice, you can't swim so she didn't think she'd race.

So she went to the swim meet. The coach asked her why she missed practice Tuesday and she said she got contact traced and was told she couldn't participate. The coach shrugged and said that this was news to him. My daughter told him that she was surprised they practiced at all tuesday since the entire team would have been contact traced. Again, coach said that was news to him. She raced Wednesday night.

Why can you go to school but not participate in activities? Why did the coach not get informed that a player and all of the team, would have been contact traced? Why did the other swimmers either ignore or not read their emails? fsad

1ee22ef4-b4b2-4174-a440-3ad978f2e691_text.gif
 

WPTLION

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My daughter got a notice from her school on Sunday that she had been contact traced. A swim team member had tested positive. The email stated that she needed to get a "proctored" test (I found out later that this meant the home tests were not good enough) in order to return to the team or any other school-sponsored activity. After we emailed the principle, we were told she can go to school but not events. Go figure.

So she got tested on Monday and were told it would take three days (what good is the test?). So she went to school on Tuesday but skipped swim practice. Then we got the test back as "negative" so she went to the swim meet Wednesday. The rule is that if you don't practice, you can't swim so she didn't think she'd race.

So she went to the swim meet. The coach asked her why she missed practice Tuesday and she said she got contact traced and was told she couldn't participate. The coach shrugged and said that this was news to him. My daughter told him that she was surprised they practiced at all tuesday since the entire team would have been contact traced. Again, coach said that was news to him. She raced Wednesday night.

Why can you go to school but not participate in activities? Why did the coach not get informed that a player and all of the team, would have been contact traced? Why did the other swimmers either ignore or not read their emails? fsad

1ee22ef4-b4b2-4174-a440-3ad978f2e691_text.gif
Our school effective Jan 1st no longer require isolation for close contact unless they have symptoms!

Locally I was told there was a study that of all the kids forced home for close contact only 2% ever tested positive.

SCIENCE!!
 

The Spin Meister

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An altered state
My daughter got a notice from her school on Sunday that she had been contact traced. A swim team member had tested positive. The email stated that she needed to get a "proctored" test (I found out later that this meant the home tests were not good enough) in order to return to the team or any other school-sponsored activity. After we emailed the principle, we were told she can go to school but not events. Go figure.

So she got tested on Monday and were told it would take three days (what good is the test?). So she went to school on Tuesday but skipped swim practice. Then we got the test back as "negative" so she went to the swim meet Wednesday. The rule is that if you don't practice, you can't swim so she didn't think she'd race.

So she went to the swim meet. The coach asked her why she missed practice Tuesday and she said she got contact traced and was told she couldn't participate. The coach shrugged and said that this was news to him. My daughter told him that she was surprised they practiced at all tuesday since the entire team would have been contact traced. Again, coach said that was news to him. She raced Wednesday night.

Why can you go to school but not participate in activities? Why did the coach not get informed that a player and all of the team, would have been contact traced? Why did the other swimmers either ignore or not read their emails? fsad

1ee22ef4-b4b2-4174-a440-3ad978f2e691_text.gif
These people do have the slightest clue to the science but a) they feel they have to do something to show they care and are doing their jobs, and b)lawyers saying do something as a CYA just in case.
 

Obliviax

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These people do have the slightest clue to the science but a) they feel they have to do something to show they care and are doing their jobs, and b)lawyers saying do something as a CYA just in case.
I saw this kind of thing in Russia. Its a black market. You show the govt all the right moves and then do what is common sense and practical. This is what happens when the govt has zero credibility and led to the fall of the Soviet Union. The black market, untaxed, was larger than the real market.
 
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psualt

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We don’t need the CDC. We only need data on who has gotten infected twice.

Out of 21 fully vaxxed Pittsburgh Penguins, 20 have been infected, but only two were reinfected.

QED
My son contracted last spring and again this month. I assume the difference is omicron. Honestly though even if you can contract it and it keeps you from getting sick isn’t that good enough? I would think so.
 
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jjw165

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My daughter got a notice from her school on Sunday that she had been contact traced. A swim team member had tested positive. The email stated that she needed to get a "proctored" test (I found out later that this meant the home tests were not good enough) in order to return to the team or any other school-sponsored activity. After we emailed the principle, we were told she can go to school but not events. Go figure.

So she got tested on Monday and were told it would take three days (what good is the test?). So she went to school on Tuesday but skipped swim practice. Then we got the test back as "negative" so she went to the swim meet Wednesday. The rule is that if you don't practice, you can't swim so she didn't think she'd race.

So she went to the swim meet. The coach asked her why she missed practice Tuesday and she said she got contact traced and was told she couldn't participate. The coach shrugged and said that this was news to him. My daughter told him that she was surprised they practiced at all tuesday since the entire team would have been contact traced. Again, coach said that was news to him. She raced Wednesday night.

Why can you go to school but not participate in activities? Why did the coach not get informed that a player and all of the team, would have been contact traced? Why did the other swimmers either ignore or not read their emails? fsad

1ee22ef4-b4b2-4174-a440-3ad978f2e691_text.gif
My daughter got a notice from her school on Sunday that she had been contact traced. A swim team member had tested positive. The email stated that she needed to get a "proctored" test (I found out later that this meant the home tests were not good enough) in order to return to the team or any other school-sponsored activity. After we emailed the principle, we were told she can go to school but not events. Go figure.

So she got tested on Monday and were told it would take three days (what good is the test?). So she went to school on Tuesday but skipped swim practice. Then we got the test back as "negative" so she went to the swim meet Wednesday. The rule is that if you don't practice, you can't swim so she didn't think she'd race.

So she went to the swim meet. The coach asked her why she missed practice Tuesday and she said she got contact traced and was told she couldn't participate. The coach shrugged and said that this was news to him. My daughter told him that she was surprised they practiced at all tuesday since the entire team would have been contact traced. Again, coach said that was news to him. She raced Wednesday night.

Why can you go to school but not participate in activities? Why did the coach not get informed that a player and all of the team, would have been contact traced? Why did the other swimmers either ignore or not read their emails? fsad

1ee22ef4-b4b2-4174-a440-3ad978f2e691_text.gif
There’s so much guidance people are having trouble keeping track of it. It’s become a boondoggle. 🥸
 

PSUEngineer89

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Aug 14, 2021
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My daughter got a notice from her school on Sunday that she had been contact traced. A swim team member had tested positive. The email stated that she needed to get a "proctored" test (I found out later that this meant the home tests were not good enough) in order to return to the team or any other school-sponsored activity. After we emailed the principle, we were told she can go to school but not events. Go figure.

So she got tested on Monday and were told it would take three days (what good is the test?). So she went to school on Tuesday but skipped swim practice. Then we got the test back as "negative" so she went to the swim meet Wednesday. The rule is that if you don't practice, you can't swim so she didn't think she'd race.

So she went to the swim meet. The coach asked her why she missed practice Tuesday and she said she got contact traced and was told she couldn't participate. The coach shrugged and said that this was news to him. My daughter told him that she was surprised they practiced at all tuesday since the entire team would have been contact traced. Again, coach said that was news to him. She raced Wednesday night.

Why can you go to school but not participate in activities? Why did the coach not get informed that a player and all of the team, would have been contact traced? Why did the other swimmers either ignore or not read their emails? fsad

1ee22ef4-b4b2-4174-a440-3ad978f2e691_text.gif
Why can you go to school but not participate in events?

Why, you ask?

Because we are led by morons in virtually all our institutions.
 

The Spin Meister

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Nah, just the obvious ones. After a couple of years it’s pretty easy. Even you can do it.
Classic egocentric elitist. Think you can look at an obit and know how someone died when the obit has no mention of how the death occurred. I know three people over eighty that died in the last six months and none had even the slightest indication of Covid. All died at home.

Hopefully, you do realize that when you make such exaggerated claims it hurts what little credibility you may have had left.
 

WPTLION

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Classic egocentric elitist. Think you can look at an obit and know how someone died when the obit has no mention of how the death occurred. I know three people over eighty that died in the last six months and none had even the slightest indication of Covid. All died at home.

Hopefully, you do realize that when you make such exaggerated claims it hurts what little credibility you may have had left.
And im sure tgar lot's of explainations for this. https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/why-the-risk-ratios-that-supposedly
 

dirge999

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Dec 22, 2010
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Am I remembering correctly that around the time of the Lancet hatchet job on HCQ (which was friday afternoon news dump later shown as completely false and bought and paid for) that there was a similar set of articles that went about saying that natural immunity was not good for Covid and that it waned very quickley and that vaccination was better. I remember at the time thinking that makes zero sense from a scientific standpoint. To this day, the fact that natural immunity is not 'allowed to be considered when it can be tested for continues to show me that medical science in NOT making decision buy politics is making decisions.
 

WPTLION

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I am not concerned about credibility or your viewpoint. Swirling the drain and booting anti vaxxers are what they are at this point and here in small town Merica it’s pretty easy to spot them.

Send them home from the ER with a Get well card. Buy the ticket, take the ride as they say.

Cheer them on.

Shrug your shoulders when they boot.
Except they aren't the ones dying MORON. Open your eyes , youve been lied.....3x vax are now more likely to end up in hospital in the uk then unvaxxed....oops
 

The Spin Meister

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An altered state
I am not concerned about credibility or your viewpoint. Swirling the drain and booting anti vaxxers are what they are at this point and here in small town Merica it’s pretty easy to spot them.

Send them home from the ER with a Get well card. Buy the ticket, take the ride as they say.

Cheer them on.

Shrug your shoulders when they boot.
You are a disgusting human being.

Please tell me you are not Penn State grad.
 

tgar

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You are a disgusting human being.

Please tell me you are not Penn State grad.
LOL. Hey, don’t get vaxxed, stay home. Live or die with your decision. Why do so many anti vaxxers turn out to be pussies when push comes to shove?
 

The Spin Meister

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LOL. Hey, don’t get vaxxed, stay home. Live or die with your decision. Why do so many anti vaxxers turn out to be pussies when push comes to shove?
You are an arrogant, egotistical, condescending, rude, cold, low life. You put down anyone with a different opinion. Strike out in anger with vulgarities. Sure you’re not Donald Trump? You have the exact same personality.
 

tgar

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You are an arrogant, egotistical, condescending, rude, cold, low life. You put down anyone with a different opinion. Strike out in anger with vulgarities. Sure you’re not Donald Trump? You have the exact same personality.
LOL, who gives a ****. Me and Donald are smart enough to be vaxxed.
 

tgar

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Probably why you hate him. You see all your worst character flaws in him.
Awwwwwwww LOL. Nobody cares, nobody. But you understand that. And i am not talking about Donald. but you understand that.

Get well card.
Swirl
boot.

buy the ticket, take the ride or be a pussy.
 

PSUEngineer89

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This is what happens when you don't act scientifically.

All the data shows that the vaccine DOES help some. Now, does it stop the spread - no.

But when you take a stance and decide to search for data that supports the stance, you are subject to getting smashed in debate.

Tgar is a midwit, but he's right about this singular issue.

The risk of a reaction to a vaccine, and all the POSSIBLE impacts to your immune system in the future (which I doubt) do not outweigh the benefits for the elderly and vulnerable.

Right- and now the media is spinning the narrative that "not everyone who died or is in the hospital was becasue of Covid, it was just with Covid." Which is what everyone has been saying for over a year........ but the numbers are killing this admin, so they need to flip the script.

Except they aren't the ones dying MORON. Open your eyes , youve been lied.....3x vax are now more likely to end up in hospital in the uk then unvaxxed....oops

You are a disgusting human being.

Please tell me you are not Penn State grad.

LOL, who gives a ****. Me and Donald are smart enough to be vaxxed.
 

Omar81

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Nov 12, 2014
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This is what happens when you don't act scientifically.

All the data shows that the vaccine DOES help some. Now, does it stop the spread - no.

But when you take a stance and decide to search for data that supports the stance, you are subject to getting smashed in debate.

Tgar is a midwit, but he's right about this singular issue.

The risk of a reaction to a vaccine, and all the POSSIBLE impacts to your immune system in the future (which I doubt) do not outweigh the benefits for the elderly and vulnerable.
Key phrase in the above: “for the elderly and vulnerable.”

And it should be surprising, but isn’t, which side of this discussion has the arrogant, condescending a-holes. Or that not only are they a-holes, but they’re perversely proud of it.
 

PSUEngineer89

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Key phrase in the above: “for the elderly and vulnerable.”

And it should be surprising, but isn’t, which side of this discussion has the arrogant, condescending a-holes. Or that not only are they a-holes, but they’re perversely proud of it.
Well, I can be quite the arrogant condescending ahole myself.

The problem in all of this is that people choose a side, then refuse to allow observations to modify their stance.

Of course, complicating it is that there is so much lying and misleading going on that it is easy, and sometimes justified, for people to discount data that goes against their theory.
 

WPTLION

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This is what happens when you don't act scientifically.

All the data shows that the vaccine DOES help some. Now, does it stop the spread - no.

But when you take a stance and decide to search for data that supports the stance, you are subject to getting smashed in debate.

Tgar is a midwit, but he's right about this singular issue.

The risk of a reaction to a vaccine, and all the POSSIBLE impacts to your immune system in the future (which I doubt) do not outweigh the benefits for the elderly and vulnerable.
Sorry, but you do know why we have to look at other countries for info right...because others doesn't provide it. Hell look at what Massachusetts just put out....

The number of cases in vaccinated people may be undercounted due to discrepancies in the names and dates of birth of individuals, resulting in an inability to match records across systems. Hospitalization data is likely also undercounted as identification and reporting of hospitalized cases relies on that information being obtainable by case investigators through patient interview.

PA says this:

  • Vaccination status in the hospitalization data is not able to be verified by matching to a vaccination registry and may represent self-reporting by the patient or patient's family.
  • People hospitalized with COVID-19 often need to be re-hospitalized. The numerator of the hospitalization rate counts hospitalizations (thus double-counting persons hospitalized more than once), whereas the denominator counts persons, not hospitalizations.


The US has been running a disinformation campaign on the vaccines for months. The data is garbage most states put out. You are great at running stats but you can only use the data given. The UK at least puts the info out and then trys to explain it away by saying "vaccinated people care more about their health and thats why they test more."
 

The Spin Meister

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Key phrase in the above: “for the elderly and vulnerable.”

And it should be surprising, but isn’t, which side of this discussion has the arrogant, condescending a-holes. Or that not only are they a-holes, but they’re perversely proud of it.
Funny but there are....or at least were before the split......a half dozen lefty loons that act just like Trump. Always amazed me how they hate him but have all the same personality traits.
 
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PSUEngineer89

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Sorry, but you do know why we have to look at other countries for info right...because others doesn't provide it. Hell look at what Massachusetts just put out....

The number of cases in vaccinated people may be undercounted due to discrepancies in the names and dates of birth of individuals, resulting in an inability to match records across systems. Hospitalization data is likely also undercounted as identification and reporting of hospitalized cases relies on that information being obtainable by case investigators through patient interview.

PA says this:

  • Vaccination status in the hospitalization data is not able to be verified by matching to a vaccination registry and may represent self-reporting by the patient or patient's family.
  • People hospitalized with COVID-19 often need to be re-hospitalized. The numerator of the hospitalization rate counts hospitalizations (thus double-counting persons hospitalized more than once), whereas the denominator counts persons, not hospitalizations.


The US has been running a disinformation campaign on the vaccines for months. The data is garbage most states put out. You are great at running stats but you can only use the data given. The UK at least puts the info out and then trys to explain it away by saying "vaccinated people care more about their health and thats why they test more."
There is little doubt that the CDC and the states' health agencies have tried to skew the data, and the presentation of the data, as much as possible to show that vaccines are better than they really are.

I have no doubt that the numbers I've calculated wrt vaccine effectiveness are a little skewed high.

BUT I HAVE NO DOUBT, NONE WHATSOEVER, THAT THE VACCINE HELPS PEOPLE SURVIVE COVID.

So, rail against the mandate (because I'd be against the mandate almost no matter what) because in a free country, there is no place for either a mask or vaccine mandate.

But please do not try to minimize the role the vaccine has had, and can continue to have (although even more reduced due to Omicron) in preventing deaths.
 

WPTLION

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There is little doubt that the CDC and the states' health agencies have tried to skew the data, and the presentation of the data, as much as possible to show that vaccines are better than they really are.

I have no doubt that the numbers I've calculated wrt vaccine effectiveness are a little skewed high.

BUT I HAVE NO DOUBT, NONE WHATSOEVER, THAT THE VACCINE HELPS PEOPLE SURVIVE COVID.

So, rail against the mandate (because I'd be against the mandate almost no matter what) because in a free country, there is no place for either a mask or vaccine mandate.

But please do not try to minimize the role the vaccine has had, and can continue to have (although even more reduced due to Omicron) in preventing deaths.
But see thats the problem. The vaccines have had a minimal role reducing deaths because the survival rate was already so high. In PA as of 12/31/20 before anyone was vaxxed, the under 60 population had a survival rate of 99.9996%. Again, I go to the UK where since July vaccinated deaths as a percentage of total deaths has been within a few percentage points of their population that was vaxxed. Of course we know a lot of unvaxxed deaths could not be vaccinated so that skews that number a bit. I've never said the vaccines were worthless for the vulnerable population, and more then likely that group is almost completely vaccinated. But they are still dying in large numbers. The fact that we can't trust the US government to be honest with these numbers is scary. The question is why are they so skewed?
 
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Cletus11

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This has really turned

and everything she said is true, that is why the tide is starting to turn. even as she said, the liberals are seeing that there is just not end and you cannot 'stop' a virus and to be in this perpetual state of open then close then open and stupidity of cloth masks and 4th booster shots, etc....

one thing that I think has been horrible in this whole pandemic is what she said about if as a liberal she comes out and says things like 'cloth masks do nothing' and 'vaccine passports make no sense' that she is labelled as a far right white supremacist, science denying Trumper shows how horrible this country and MSM and Social Media have gone in a horrible direction. we now know that cloths masks don't work, that the Wuhan lab was the most likely origin of the virus, that lockdowns don't work and yet 18 months ago you were literally banned from social media from saying something like this, that is actually really scary.

And I hope that the drum of how this has horribly effected childer and teenagers starts to be really pushed as they are a huge group that has lost 18-24 months of their life and development that cannot come back. that is a rallying cry that both liberals and conseratives should be able to agree and to push to end all this nonsense.
 

PSUEngineer89

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6,217
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But see thats the problem. The vaccines have had a minimal role reducing deaths because the survival rate was already so high. In PA as of 12/31/20 before anyone was vaxxed, the under 60 population had a survival rate of 99.9996%. Again, I go to the UK where since July vaccinated deaths as a percentage of total deaths has been within a few percentage points of their population that was vaxxed. Of course we know a lot of unvaxxed deaths could not be vaccinated so that skews that number a bit. I've never said the vaccines were worthless for the vulnerable population, and more then likely that group is almost completely vaccinated. But they are still dying in large numbers. The fact that we can't trust the US government to be honest with these numbers is scary. The question is why are they so skewed?
But you have to use the vaccination rate of the group where all the deaths are happening.

The 65+ age group.

They are almost 100% vaxxed.

So, of course, all deaths will be among the vaxxed.

I calculated it.

Showed VE against death was 60%.

But I was worried that the calculation was sensitive to small changes in vaxx rate.
 

dirge999

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2010
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But see thats the problem. The vaccines have had a minimal role reducing deaths because the survival rate was already so high. In PA as of 12/31/20 before anyone was vaxxed, the under 60 population had a survival rate of 99.9996%. Again, I go to the UK where since July vaccinated deaths as a percentage of total deaths has been within a few percentage points of their population that was vaxxed. Of course we know a lot of unvaxxed deaths could not be vaccinated so that skews that number a bit. I've never said the vaccines were worthless for the vulnerable population, and more then likely that group is almost completely vaccinated. But they are still dying in large numbers. The fact that we can't trust the US government to be honest with these numbers is scary. The question is why are they so skewed?

this isnt 'news' - but it is getting out there