USA COVID-19 Vaccination Updates

Cletus11

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Your last point is COMPLETELY FALSE...The CDC has previously said that in 2020 up to 4x more people had covid then knew it. Between mild or asymptomatic. Please note I've never said no one gets sick. Most people do not, sorry a mild cold is not "sick" in terms of covid. Its just factual that it happened with no vaccines too. Now do people freak out and go to the hospital for a cold normally---yes, same with covid. Thats been my argument all along for most people covid is a cold or less there by most people get no benefit from the vaccines if you can still get and and spread it. This has been a fact the media has hid for 2 years.
Seriously...here is your quote, you literally say MOST PEOPLE DON"T GET sick and now you are saying you never said that?
Not true but keep trying. For the millionth time---vaccine or no vaccine MOST PEOPLE DO NOT GET SICK!

Now you are moving the bar of what 'sick' is. Without vaccination, most poeple did have some level of symptoms from Covid. You are implying that is not correct. "getting sick' to me means you don't feel well, have some flu like symptoms. and most people got that with Covid.
 

The Spin Meister

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An altered state
oh ffs.... do you even read what's posted in THIS thread?

You need to read the content at this link slowly and THEN take up any arguments you have with the UK.


btw... I'm STILL waiting for YOUR source
From your linked study:

The previous finding of reduced overall risk of hospitalisation for Omicron compared to Delta is confirmed by the updated Study 1. In addition, both studies find a substantial reduction in risk of hospitalisation for Omicron cases after 3 doses of vaccine compared to those who are unvaccinated, with overlapping estimate.....

And.....After 3 doses of vaccine, the risk of hospitalisation for a symptomatic case identified with Omicron through community testing was estimated to be reduced by 68% (42 to 82%) when compared to similar individuals with Omicron who were not vaccinated (after adjusting for age, gender, previous positive test, region, ethnicity, clinically extremely vulnerable status, risk group status and period).


So they are comparing unvaccinated vs three shots. Later on there is a shot showing a breakdown on 0, 1, 2, or 3 shots and comparing hospitalization and death rates which shows some effectiveness of a third booster. But there are several issues with the study. One it is a small group of patients so a change in a dozen cases has large impact on data. Second, the cutoff date of study was Dec 29th which was five weeks after the announcement of Omicron in SAfrica. Hardly time for the infections to run their course.

So the booster may have some benefits. But it appears that it is far less effective against Omicron.
 

WPTLION

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Seriously...here is your quote, you literally say MOST PEOPLE DON"T GET sick and now you are saying you never said that?
Not true but keep trying. For the millionth time---vaccine or no vaccine MOST PEOPLE DO NOT GET SICK!

Now you are moving the bar of what 'sick' is. Without vaccination, most poeple did have some level of symptoms from Covid. You are implying that is not correct. "getting sick' to me means you don't feel well, have some flu like symptoms. and most people got that with Covid.
So you want to play that game...I NEVER SAID NO ONE GETS SICK....you said I said that.
what do you mean by people dont' get sick. Back 18 months ago pre-vaccine, it was thought that about 25-40% of people might have mild symptoms and that the rest had major symptoms with some going to hospital.

Saying nobody gets sick from Covid is truly crazy talk. You mean to say that most people don't goto the hospital or die from Covid. Most people have some level of sickness due to covid who are not vaccinated.

the number you quoted of 25-40% before vaccines is actually over 75% per CDC.

Hence MOST!!!!!!! people don't get sick.

Unfortunately most people even unvaxxed think if you get covid you will end up in the hospital. They are shocked to learn they've been lied to.
 
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WPTLION

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From your linked study:

The previous finding of reduced overall risk of hospitalisation for Omicron compared to Delta is confirmed by the updated Study 1. In addition, both studies find a substantial reduction in risk of hospitalisation for Omicron cases after 3 doses of vaccine compared to those who are unvaccinated, with overlapping estimate.....

And.....After 3 doses of vaccine, the risk of hospitalisation for a symptomatic case identified with Omicron through community testing was estimated to be reduced by 68% (42 to 82%) when compared to similar individuals with Omicron who were not vaccinated (after adjusting for age, gender, previous positive test, region, ethnicity, clinically extremely vulnerable status, risk group status and period).


So they are comparing unvaccinated vs three shots. Later on there is a shot showing a breakdown on 0, 1, 2, or 3 shots and comparing hospitalization and death rates which shows some effectiveness of a third booster. But there are several issues with the study. One it is a small group of patients so a change in a dozen cases has large impact on data. Second, the cutoff date of study was Dec 29th which was five weeks after the announcement of Omicron in SAfrica. Hardly time for the infections to run their course.

So the booster may have some benefits. But it appears that it is far less effective against Omicron.
If you have to do this( after adjusting for age, gender, previous positive test, region, ethnicity, clinically extremely vulnerable status, risk group status and period) for the most deadly and contagious virus ever you're really stretching to prove something that is there.
 

The Spin Meister

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If you have to do this( after adjusting for age, gender, previous positive test, region, ethnicity, clinically extremely vulnerable status, risk group status and period) for the most deadly and contagious virus ever you're really stretching to prove something that is there.
Well, that is necessary for accuracy but with a small patient base to begin with it can really distort the resulting data.
 

Cletus11

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So you want to play that game...I NEVER SAID NO ONE GETS SICK....you said I said that.


the number you quoted of 25-40% before vaccines is actually over 75% per CDC.

Hence MOST!!!!!!! people don't get sick.

Unfortunately most people even unvaxxed think if you get covid you will end up in the hospital. They are shocked to learn they've been lied to.
no way that 75% of people are asymptomatic. the incremental 4x, which was an estimate of 2-4X was the amount of people that had covid BUT were not TESTED. had nothign to do with those people being asymptomatic, it had to do with the fact that in the first few months of Covid back in February through June in 2020 that there was so little testing available that they assumed via the antibody studies that 2-4x the reported cases were probably out there. nothing to do with being asymptomatic. so you are wrong.
 

WPTLION

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no way that 75% of people are asymptomatic. the incremental 4x, which was an estimate of 2-4X was the amount of people that had covid BUT were not TESTED. had nothign to do with those people being asymptomatic, it had to do with the fact that in the first few months of Covid back in February through June in 2020 that there was so little testing available that they assumed via the antibody studies that 2-4x the reported cases were probably out there. nothing to do with being asymptomatic. so you are wrong.
Sorry your wrong---75% of people never knew they had it. Which means the common cold at worse. This is what covid is for most people. That's why saying a vaccine is effective at keeping people from getting sick when they don't get sick to begin with is faulty at best. Criminal at worst. By the way all those unknown cases makes Covid less deadly then the flu!
 
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tgar

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Sorry your wrong---75% of people never knew they had it. Which means the common cold at worse. This is what covid is for most people. That's why saying a vaccine is effective at keeping people from getting sick when they don't get sick to begin with is faulty at best. Criminal at worst. By the way all those unknown cases makes Covid less deadly then the flu!
Wow, just wow.
 

SLUPSU

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From your linked study:

The previous finding of reduced overall risk of hospitalisation for Omicron compared to Delta is confirmed by the updated Study 1. In addition, both studies find a substantial reduction in risk of hospitalisation for Omicron cases after 3 doses of vaccine compared to those who are unvaccinated, with overlapping estimate.....

And.....After 3 doses of vaccine, the risk of hospitalisation for a symptomatic case identified with Omicron through community testing was estimated to be reduced by 68% (42 to 82%) when compared to similar individuals with Omicron who were not vaccinated (after adjusting for age, gender, previous positive test, region, ethnicity, clinically extremely vulnerable status, risk group status and period).


So they are comparing unvaccinated vs three shots. Later on there is a shot showing a breakdown on 0, 1, 2, or 3 shots and comparing hospitalization and death rates which shows some effectiveness of a third booster. But there are several issues with the study. One it is a small group of patients so a change in a dozen cases has large impact on data. Second, the cutoff date of study was Dec 29th which was five weeks after the announcement of Omicron in SAfrica. Hardly time for the infections to run their course.

So the booster may have some benefits. But it appears that it is far less effective against Omicron.

Does any of that contradict what I posted, didn't I say that VE is about 70% effective against infection? 68% is a far cry from..."it makes almost no difference," right? Additionally, the UK numbers are based on a different mix of vaccines, a mix that includes much less of the MRNA's.

again.... what's the source that backs your position?
 
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The Spin Meister

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An altered state
Does any of that contradict what I posted, didn't I say that VE is about 70% effective against infection? 68% is a far cry from..."it makes almost no difference," right? Additionally, the UK numbers are based on a different mix of vaccines, a mix that includes much less of the MRNA's.

again.... what's the source that backs your position?
Well, this study says nothing about infection rate. It was about hospitalization and death rates. There is no way to know the infection rate since most people are asymptomatic or have miner symptoms and don’t get tested or go in for treatment.
 

Cletus11

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Does any of that contradict what I posted, didn't I say that VE is about 70% effective against infection? 68% is a far cry from..."it makes almost no difference," right? Additionally, the UK numbers are based on a different mix of vaccines, a mix that includes much less of the MRNA's.

again.... what's the source that backs your position?
are you trying to say that the current vaccines are 70% effective against infection?
 
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Obliviax

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Well, this study says nothing about infection rate. It was about hospitalization and death rates. There is no way to know the infection rate since most people are asymptomatic or have miner symptoms and don’t get tested or go in for treatment.
..and that is really the problem...nobody knows, they are just guessing. Even infection rates are a product of the strain and the number of people being tested. Case in point is the NFL....they had to postpone several games due to teams coming down with ten, fifteen and twenty positives. They change the policy to only test people that are symptomatic and we just had 12 teams eligible for the playoffs with ZERO infections.

I get why the govt did what they did. Fake it till you make it, but those days are over. We are all going to be exposed and "get" COVID. Complete avoidance is no longer an option. Mitigation is the only real play...and that includes the vax, masks and distancing when appropriate. Other than that, you gotta live life because you don't know what is going to jump up and get you.
 
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SLUPSU

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Well, this study says nothing about infection rate. It was about hospitalization and death rates. There is no way to know the infection rate since most people are asymptomatic or have miner symptoms and don’t get tested or go in for treatment.

Figure 2, page 11.

"Figure 2: Vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic diseases by period after dose 1 and dose 2 for Delta (black squares) and Omicron (grey circles) for (A) recipients of 2 doses of AstraZeneca(ChAdOx1-S) vaccine as the primary course and Pfizer (BNT162b2) or Moderna (mRNA-1273) as a booster; (B) recipients of 2 doses of Pfizer vaccine as the primary course and Pfizer or Moderna as a booster, and (C) 2 doses of Moderna as a primary course (insufficient data for boosters after a Moderna primary course) "

edit: Study was based on laboratory testing... being asymptomatic wouldn't matter.
 

Cletus11

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Yes, that's what the UK is reporting if you're boosted.
zero chance that getting a booster is 70% stopping omicron infection. if that were so, there would not be record high numbers of cases. hell, i know more people that got covid in the last 6 weeks than I knew got covid in the previous 18 months and most of them were vaxxed and boosted.
 

Cletus11

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so to summarize.

we have one person saying the vaccine is 70% effective against infection and another person saying that 75% of people who contract covid are asymptomatic.

wow, don't know what to say.
 

SLUPSU

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zero chance that getting a booster is 70% stopping omicron infection. if that were so, there would not be record high numbers of cases. hell, i know more people that got covid in the last 6 weeks than I knew got covid in the previous 18 months and most of them were vaxxed and boosted.

Certainly, it's only one source, but I beg to differ. Argue the 70% if you wish, and provide a source, but there are about 'only' 75 million in the US who have been boosted. That means there's probably a pool of about 200 million available infectees, with an estimated R0 of 10 for omicron, it's easy to see the possibility of 100's of thousands of cases.
 
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SLUPSU

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so to summarize.

we have one person saying the vaccine is 70% effective against infection and another person saying that 75% of people who contract covid are asymptomatic.

wow, don't know what to say.

Perhaps you could say that have something new to learn.
 

The Spin Meister

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An altered state
Figure 2, page 11.

"Figure 2: Vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic diseases by period after dose 1 and dose 2 for Delta (black squares) and Omicron (grey circles) for (A) recipients of 2 doses of AstraZeneca(ChAdOx1-S) vaccine as the primary course and Pfizer (BNT162b2) or Moderna (mRNA-1273) as a booster; (B) recipients of 2 doses of Pfizer vaccine as the primary course and Pfizer or Moderna as a booster, and (C) 2 doses of Moderna as a primary course (insufficient data for boosters after a Moderna primary course) "

edit: Study was based on laboratory testing... being asymptomatic wouldn't matter.
From page nine.....


The risk of being admitted to hospital for Omicron cases was lower for those who had received 2 doses of a vaccine (65% lower) compared to those who had not received any vaccination (Table 4). The risk of being admitted to hospital for Omicron cases was lower still among those who had received 3 doses of vaccine (81% lower).

So it vies from 65% without a booster to 81% with a third shot. And that is for people that symptomatic as people without symptoms don’t get tested.
 

SLUPSU

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From page nine.....


The risk of being admitted to hospital for Omicron cases was lower for those who had received 2 doses of a vaccine (65% lower) compared to those who had not received any vaccination (Table 4). The risk of being admitted to hospital for Omicron cases was lower still among those who had received 3 doses of vaccine (81% lower).

So it vies from 65% without a booster to 81% with a third shot. And that is for people that symptomatic as people without symptoms don’t get tested.

There are two sets of numbers in the study, one for infections (fig 2. A, B, C) and one for hospitalizations (tables).
 

The Spin Meister

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There are two sets of numbers in the study, one for infections (fig 2. A, B, C) and one for hospitalizations (tables).
Again, those are for ‘symptomatic disease’ . People without symptoms don’t get tested. And a lot of people with mild symptoms don’t get tested. I have had symptoms three times since Oct 1, always mild, and was never tested. If they aren’t doing full random testing of symptomatic AND asymptomatic people then they do not really know how effective the vaccines and/or booster shots are.
 

SLUPSU

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Again, those are for ‘symptomatic disease’ . People without symptoms don’t get tested. And a lot of people with mild symptoms don’t get tested. I have had symptoms three times since Oct 1, always mild, and was never tested. If they aren’t doing full random testing of symptomatic AND asymptomatic people then they do not really know how effective the vaccines and/or booster shots are.

Yes, they are, so? You're getting side-tracked, and you're not making the case that ALL the numbers in the study represent VE for hospitalization only. You do NOT need a random sample that includes asymptomatic cases to determine vaccine effectiveness.
 

The Spin Meister

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Yes, they are, so? You're getting side-tracked, and you're not making the case that ALL the numbers in the study represent VE for hospitalization only. You do NOT need a random sample that includes asymptomatic cases to determine vaccine effectiveness.
Fine, you think is a great study. I don’t. I am done.
 
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Ski

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I lied. One more update. My pool teammate is also the league operator. His wife posted this on Friday on his league's web page:

"We would like to apologies for paperwork not being on time but XXX has been seriously in bad shape. He has gotten Covid, but he has 2 types of Covid. He has the Omicron and the Delta variant viruses. We don't know how bad it is going to get, but as soon as he starts getting better we will let everyone know. Also, we will let all teams know if we will have league next week.
Thanks, XXX"

My pool teammate/friend was finally well enough to play last night, so I had a chance to talk with him at length. Because he previously had Covid and because of the symptoms he was presenting when he went to Urgicare, they ordered the additional Covid tests on him. His tests were sent out to a lab where they could do more advanced testing and the results came back 3 days later. He and his spouse did not hear the doctor incorrectly. He had both variants.

As to the primary care doctor that would not prescribe monoclonal antibodies for him, the doctor is an old-timer, near retirement, and stuck in the past. My friend previously had multiple back surgeries and is having back issues again with bad pain and this same doctor would not refer him to a neurologist or an orthopedic surgeon, as "it is not necessary." The doctor is a quack and my friend is in the process of finding a new one.

Last update on this subject. My friend will live and will have a better primary care doctor in the future. The doctor he last saw, not his PCM, told him that it could take 6 months for his lungs to fully clear.
 
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SLUPSU

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Canada's about as Covid psycho as it gets: Vaxed vs Unvaxed Stats


More BS scare tactic game playing with the stats. Canada is a highly vaccinated country, so assuming those charts are correct (coming from someone like McIntyre I wouldn't trust them but that's beside the point) it wouldn't be much of a surprise if vaccinated are "driving the numbers," there are a LOT more of them. Cases are spiking for everyone, and Canada booster rates aren't particularly high at about 30%.

When you pay attention to rates then the story is different

"Based on data from nine provinces and territories for the eligible population 12 years or older, each week for the period 28 November to 25 December 2021, adjusting for age, on average the rate of new COVID-19 cases among unvaccinated individuals was 2 times higher, and the rate of COVID-19 hospitalized cases among unvaccinated individuals was 16 times higher than in fully vaccinated individuals. However, there are differences observed between age groups. From 28 November to 25 December 2021, adjusting for age, average weekly rates indicate that:  Among youth and adults aged 12 to 59 years, unvaccinated people were 16 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 than fully vaccinated people, while  Among older adults aged 60 years or older, unvaccinated people were 17 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 than fully vaccinated people"

 

Cletus11

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More BS scare tactic game playing with the stats. Canada is a highly vaccinated country, so assuming those charts are correct (coming from someone like McIntyre I wouldn't trust them but that's beside the point) it wouldn't be much of a surprise if vaccinated are "driving the numbers," there are a LOT more of them. Cases are spiking for everyone, and Canada booster rates aren't particularly high at about 30%.

When you pay attention to rates then the story is different

"Based on data from nine provinces and territories for the eligible population 12 years or older, each week for the period 28 November to 25 December 2021, adjusting for age, on average the rate of new COVID-19 cases among unvaccinated individuals was 2 times higher, and the rate of COVID-19 hospitalized cases among unvaccinated individuals was 16 times higher than in fully vaccinated individuals. However, there are differences observed between age groups. From 28 November to 25 December 2021, adjusting for age, average weekly rates indicate that:  Among youth and adults aged 12 to 59 years, unvaccinated people were 16 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 than fully vaccinated people, while  Among older adults aged 60 years or older, unvaccinated people were 17 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 than fully vaccinated people"

what the graph tells me is that basically omicron is hardly effecting anyone under 60 and the difference between vax and unvax under 60 is hardly anything. that omicron is effecting people 60+. also again, we know nothing of co-morbidity conditions although anybody in the 80+ range has co-morbidities almost by definition.
 

Obliviax

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FJd3QVNWYAIHOiC
 
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john4psu

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Do you have a link to this German study?

I could only find a Danish study which did not conclude that the vaccine weakens the immune system.