USA COVID-19 Vaccination Updates

bcspsu

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"COVID Toe?" This stuff has become ghoulish and Marvell-like. After two years, now we are hearing there is a long-term symptom named COVID Toe. If these things are true, this "flu" is not a "flu" like anything we've seen on this planet before. Has anyone ever heard of someone having "flu-toe?"

Next will be Covid penis. I can't wait for Dr. Fauci to opine about that.
 
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WPTLION

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100% agree! Vaccine was rolled out under the guise of keeping people from getting and spreading Covid. Both have been proven false. You can catch and spread when vaccinated. Natural immunity is the only way you can stop the spread.
You're right when they rolled the vaccine out they were saying you can't catch and spread it. However when they were applying for the EUA I remember hearing numerous people say you could still get it and spread it. They changed the message to get more people to bite. In PA under the age of 60 before the vaccines were available there was a 99.996% rate of survival.
 

MacNit07

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anyone who calls it "horse dewormer" has an agenda. I have no idea if it works on COVID or not, but that "horse dewormer" won a noble prize in medicine. And western science has no idea why COVID in parts of the world has been muted while it has ravaged western civilizations. So as soon as I see someone post "horse dewormer", I disregard anything else they say.

Having said that, everything I see says that the vaccines have been an effective deterrent to COVID and is a no-brainer is you are 40-ish+ years old. If you are a young man or woman in good health, you need to do the research and make a decision based on that research.
I think much of this is sound.

However, when you say “do the research,” what exactly does that mean. Consult with medical professionals (more than one, preferably)?
 

MacNit07

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"COVID Toe?" This stuff has become ghoulish and Marvell-like. After two years, now we are hearing there is a long-term symptom named COVID Toe. If these things are true, this "flu" is not a "flu" like anything we've seen on this planet before. Has anyone ever heard of someone having "flu-toe?"

Likely cooked up in Chinese lab while being partially funded by USA taxpayers.
 
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Obliviax

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I think much of this is sound.

However, when you say “do the research,” what exactly does that mean. Consult with medical professionals (more than one, preferably)?
You have to understand your personal risk tolerance. are you 17 or 71? Are you obese or fit? Do you have any of the comorbidities? If you are over age 55 and don't have some specific condition to make the vaccine high-risk, you are nuts for avoiding your shots. IMHO. But if you are age 17 and fit, the govt is nuts for making you get the shot.
 

Obliviax

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Likely cooked up in Chinese lab while being partially funded by USA taxpayers.
I don't know but tend to agree. Early on, I read an article by a virologist/researcher who said that this virus mutated faster, by far, than anything ever seen in viruses. So much so that it appeared to have been developed to mutate. It defied natural evolution. some might call that "gain of function".
 
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NC2017

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Funny in central PA I know of 4 people the Ivermectin saved their lives! One particular in hospital for 3 days took it and home the next day. Oh and 2 of the 4......vaxxed!

I live in town and I'd like to have Ivermectin around the house just in case. Was it proscribed by their primary care physicians? Thanks.
 

Obliviax

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I live in town and I'd like to have Ivermectin around the house just in case. Was it proscribed by their primary care physicians? Thanks.
You need a prescription in the USA. the animal version is NOT the same as the human version. In other nations, like Mexico, it is over-the-counter (doesn't require a prescription). There are buses full of people who go to Mexico to get over-the-counter drugs and drugs that are substantially less expensive, in border towns in the southwest. I know people who take a once a year vacation in Cabo or Cancun and load up on medicines.
 

WPTLION

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I live in town and I'd like to have Ivermectin around the house just in case. Was it proscribed by their primary care physicians? Thanks.
I know as fact the one in the hospital got it from her Primary Care Physician, Unfortunately the Doctor was then let go by the family practice she worked at. She is now starting her own practice. This happened with in the last 30 days .
 

WPTLION

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I was in the car yesterday listening to the top of the hour news. They gave all the doom and gloom of the new varient. Then at the very end of the story. "The WHO said the same things about Delta. However right now the varient doesn't appear to be more transmittable or deadly" Is this the last ditch effort to get people vaxxed? If it is they are complete morons since they are all saying it beats the vaccine.
 

Obliviax

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tools of the media: "it is possible", "it could be", "it may be as bad as", "some 'experts' say", and "the way it is trending right now".


It is like taking that baseball player that hits two home runs and has five RsBI on opening day and saying "he is on pace to hit 324 home runs and drive in 810 runs!"
 

tgar

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I was in the car yesterday listening to the top of the hour news. They gave all the doom and gloom of the new varient. Then at the very end of the story. "The WHO said the same things about Delta. However right now the varient doesn't appear to be more transmittable or deadly" Is this the last ditch effort to get people vaxxed? If it is they are complete morons since they are all saying it beats the vaccine.
And the vaccine keeps you from clogging up our health care system and dying , like that 48 year old last week up in Howard outside of State College. He clogged up the health care system then died all because he was t vaxxed. Same for one of my neighbors, 56 YO woman who was an athlete at Penn State back in college.

First they clog, then they swirl. The point of the vaccine is to avoid that scenario over and over and over again.

BTW, just look at the outbreak in the Northern Tier of Pa. several counties with low Vax rates enduring a very long term outbreak at this point t ( weeks bordering on months ).

Some dumb folks never learn.
 

tgar

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tools of the media: "it is possible", "it could be", "it may be as bad as", "some 'experts' say", and "the way it is trending right now".


It is like taking that baseball player that hits two home runs and has five RsBI on opening day and saying "he is on pace to hit 324 home runs and drive in 810 runs!"
Agree with this. The messaging has been bad from day one in a lot of respects. We are in California visiting one of my sons and the limited use of Covid Mask theater isn’t going to move the needle one way or the other with regard to clogging the health care system.
 
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WPTLION

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And the vaccine keeps you from clogging up our health care system and dying , like that 48 year old last week up in Howard outside of State College. He clogged up the health care system then died all because he was t vaxxed. Same for one of my neighbors, 56 YO woman who was an athlete at Penn State back in college.

First they clog, then they swirl. The point of the vaccine is to avoid that scenario over and over and over again.

BTW, just look at the outbreak in the Northern Tier of Pa. several counties with low Vax rates enduring a very long term outbreak at this point t ( weeks bordering on months ).

Some dumb folks never learn.
There is no reason to be clogging the health care system. Give the damn therapudics. BTW my 21 year old son just got it for a day. No one else in family has gotten it. Guess where he got it.....college campus 96% vaxxed.
 

Obliviax

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And the vaccine keeps you from clogging up our health care system and dying , like that 48 year old last week up in Howard outside of State College. He clogged up the health care system then died all because he was t vaxxed. Same for one of my neighbors, 56 YO woman who was an athlete at Penn State back in college.

First they clog, then they swirl. The point of the vaccine is to avoid that scenario over and over and over again.

BTW, just look at the outbreak in the Northern Tier of Pa. several counties with low Vax rates enduring a very long term outbreak at this point t ( weeks bordering on months ).

Some dumb folks never learn.
...or move to Florida...whatever is easier.
 

tgar

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There is no reason to be clogging the health care system. Give the damn therapudics. BTW my 21 year old son just got it for a day. No one else in family has gotten it. Guess where he got it.....college campus 96% vaxxed.
The problem with “ give the damn therapeutics “ is most of these unvaxxed folks who end up in the hospital are too stupid to pursue getting therapeutics as well. Just dip un ignorant folks unable to care for themselves so they end up clogging up the health care system. The therapeutic therapies are only good in a specific time range. All of these dimwits wait until it’s too late.

BTW, if these morons don't trust the vaccine, why should you expect them to trust other experimental medicines?

Thin the herd.


yes, there is no reason to clog the health care system but the stupid ones do and by and large the stupid ones are unvaxxed. It is what it is.

I have three friends that are vaxxed and had Covid, two have progressive doctors who sent them right away for the monoclonal treatments. of course, these are intelligent folks who have all been vaxxed from the get go and have an interest in their health. ( Not obese, don’t smoke, not diabetic etc. etc and understand science and dont buy into conspiracy theories.
 
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dbsteel

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Average age of death.....78. Average age of covid death......78. Flu deaths almost zero. I love when people cherry pick data about some 48 year old they heard die last week, or some 52 year old in the hospital, yet in the past when it happened due to the flu or pneumonia, it wasnt advertised. If people want to get jabbed full of some experimental shot after shot the next 5 years, let them. Don't push it on everyone else.
 

PSUEngineer89

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Average age of death.....78. Average age of covid death......78. Flu deaths almost zero. I love when people cherry pick data about some 48 year old they heard die last week, or some 52 year old in the hospital, yet in the past when it happened due to the flu or pneumonia, it wasnt advertised. If people want to get jabbed full of some experimental shot after shot the next 5 years, let them. Don't push it on everyone else.
The anecdotal stuff is nonsense. It means nothing. Zilch. Nada. Anyone can lie about any anecdote they tell.

These anecdotes always further the point of view of the story teller.

Smart people use statistics to describe the probabilities and make rational decisions from there.

That said, calling the vaccine "experimental" is also not very scientific. Everything is "experimental" to some degree or other, especially in the first few years.

It is impossible to know the long term effects at this point. We have good reason to believe that the vaccine provides reasonable benefit (VE about 85% or so against death). Does this mean that a lot of vaxxed people are going to die? Sure. It sure does.

But for the old and vulnerable, the vaccine works pretty well.

Now should it be mandated? Given that it is only mildly contributing to herd immunity, and looks like we will simply have to wait until everyone has natural immunity, there is no case for a vaccine mandate. None.
 

WPTLION

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The anecdotal stuff is nonsense. It means nothing. Zilch. Nada. Anyone can lie about any anecdote they tell.

These anecdotes always further the point of view of the story teller.

Smart people use statistics to describe the probabilities and make rational decisions from there.

That said, calling the vaccine "experimental" is also not very scientific. Everything is "experimental" to some degree or other, especially in the first few years.

It is impossible to know the long term effects at this point. We have good reason to believe that the vaccine provides reasonable benefit (VE about 85% or so against death). Does this mean that a lot of vaxxed people are going to die? Sure. It sure does.

But for the old and vulnerable, the vaccine works pretty well.

Now should it be mandated? Given that it is only mildly contributing to herd immunity, and looks like we will simply have to wait until everyone has natural immunity, there is no case for a vaccine mandate. None.
I know you good with numbers, the biggest problem with saying its 85% efficient against death is....99% of people survived anyway. Unless you are telling me that 85% is only in the vulnerable population--if it is thats great news. Back to my earlier anecdote....I know they are for the most part meaningless. However personally I will be anxious to see if my wife, daughter or myself get it this time. We are 99% convinced we had it in Feb 2020 obviously with no tests then you can't be 100% certain. Obviously having a son back from college in the house for 6 days before it got bad enough to test the chances of us not getting it are slim(we were puppy sitting, thought it was allergies). Could our natural antibodies be strong enough to fight it off? Could we have it but not test positive.(we've been doing rapid tests everyday, same one he tested positive with before a PCR confirmed).

Back to my son, he called his track coach and he asked where he thought he got it. He said it would have had to be the track team. They were the only people he was with his last 2 days on campus. The Campus is 96% vaxxed and there are only 2 track athletes not vaxxed. Here's the next problem the trainers don't know what the 7 day protocol is to get back to compete. They have a meet Saturday, NCAA has said you can train at home to get through your protocol. Will be interesting to see how they handle it.
 

PSUEngineer89

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I know you good with numbers, the biggest problem with saying its 85% efficient against death is....99% of people survived anyway. Unless you are telling me that 85% is only in the vulnerable population--if it is thats great news. Back to my earlier anecdote....I know they are for the most part meaningless. However personally I will be anxious to see if my wife, daughter or myself get it this time. We are 99% convinced we had it in Feb 2020 obviously with no tests then you can't be 100% certain. Obviously having a son back from college in the house for 6 days before it got bad enough to test the chances of us not getting it are slim(we were puppy sitting, thought it was allergies). Could our natural antibodies be strong enough to fight it off? Could we have it but not test positive.(we've been doing rapid tests everyday, same one he tested positive with before a PCR confirmed).

Back to my son, he called his track coach and he asked where he thought he got it. He said it would have had to be the track team. They were the only people he was with his last 2 days on campus. The Campus is 96% vaxxed and there are only 2 track athletes not vaxxed. Here's the next problem the trainers don't know what the 7 day protocol is to get back to compete. They have a meet Saturday, NCAA has said you can train at home to get through your protocol. Will be interesting to see how they handle it.
85% vaccine effectiveness is for the vulnerable population (age 65+). It's the best I can do. Various calculations give varying results, but the numbers seem to zero in on about 85% effective against death.

For preventing infection and transmission, the vaccine is far less effective. It is more like 60%. There is no question at this point that a fully vaxxed community is STILL going to spread Covid. Really, none. I did a calculation on another thread - seems like the R(t) factor after vaccination is about 3.0 or so. Meaning that it isn't close to not spreading due to vaccination.

But with time, natural immunity is going to put an end to this pandemic. I think we are there in the south after this recent bout. But the northern, and midwest states have another bout to go.
 
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Obliviax

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PSUEngineer89

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Let's take a look at when the pandemic surged and where, and which states have fared the best/worst. This takes into account the age of the population of various states - so the older states get proportional credit in the denominator.

As you can see, Texas actually is the worst, followed by NJ and NY.

Virginia has done the best.

Cumulative-Death-Rates-for-Larger-States-Age-Adjusted.png
 

BringBackStoneys

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Let's take a look at when the pandemic surged and where, and which states have fared the best/worst. This takes into account the age of the population of various states - so the older states get proportional credit in the denominator.

As you can see, Texas actually is the worst, followed by NJ and NY.

Virginia has done the best.

Cumulative-Death-Rates-for-Larger-States-Age-Adjusted.png
Why do you think Texas and Florida have had such steep rises since July 21 when all states were essential flat?
 

PSUEngineer89

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Why do you think Texas and Florida have had such steep rises since July 21 when all states were essential flat?
It's pretty well known that the virus spreads via prolonged exposure in enclosed spaces. So, the theory that makes the most sense is that when it is summertime, the South is inside with the A/C, while the North is outside enjoying the weather. Then, as the weather turns, the South goes outside, while the North goes inside.

Look now at how badly things are going in Michigan and Pennsylvania now, while Florida seems to be down to almost zero now.

Michigan-Daily-Deaths.png


Florida especially was a reasonably well vaccinated state at the time. Very much on par with Pennsylvania.

The theory that it was the unvaxxed driving Florida while Pa was sitting at a very low number never made sense and was simply stupid and propagated by media members (who are, almost by definition, stupid, mathematically illiterate people).
 
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Cletus11

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It's pretty well known that the virus spreads via prolonged exposure in enclosed spaces. So, the theory that makes the most sense is that when it is summertime, the South is inside with the A/C, while the North is outside enjoying the weather. Then, as the weather turns, the South goes outside, while the North goes inside.

Look now at how badly things are going in Michigan and Pennsylvania now, while Florida seems to be down to almost zero now.

Florida especially was a reasonably well vaccinated state at the time. Very much on par with Pennsylvania.

The theory that it was the unvaxxed driving Florida while Pa was sitting at a very low number never made sense and was simply stupid and propagated by media members (who are, almost by definition, stupid, mathematically illiterate people).

It is tough to guage but also appears that although positive cases are spiking in a lot of Northern areas, we are seeing nowhere near the spiking of fatality to go along with it. Look at a state like New Jersey and they have been below 20 daily fatalities since late May even though daily positives during that time have ranged between 240 per day to 2000 per day but the fatality number really doesn't change.

also the CDC and politicians need to start accepting the fact that these new variants are not like the original Alpha variant that the vaccine basically prevented the vaccinated from getting and transmitting. Now the vaccine basically has maybe a small effect on prevention and transmission but the vaccinated can still get and transmit at high numbers. so the vaccine is now more about protecting yourself from hospitalization and severe reaction to covid and NOT, NOT, NOT about herd immunity and transmission like originally thought. And once you make the simple decision, then most of the mandates and masking, etc..no longer are needed hence why we don't see it.

When somebody can give me any shred of a logical medical reason why a person that tests positive for antibody's from previous infection is not the same as being vaccinated, then and only then will I believe the CDC and politicians are acting in good faith and not out of control.
 
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PSUEngineer89

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It is tough to guage but also appears that although positive cases are spiking in a lot of Northern areas, we are seeing nowhere near the spiking of fatality to go along with it. Look at a state like New Jersey and they have been below 20 daily fatalities since late May even though daily positives during that time have ranged between 240 per day to 2000 per day but the fatality number really doesn't change.

also the CDC and politicians need to start accepting the fact that these new variants are not like the original Alpha variant that the vaccine basically prevented the vaccinated from getting and transmitting. Now the vaccine basically has maybe a small effect on prevention and transmission but the vaccinated can still get and transmit at high numbers. so the vaccine is not more about protecting yourself from hospitalization and severe reaction to covid and NOT, NOT, NOT about herd immunity and transmission like originally thought. And once you make the simple decision, then most of the mandates and masking, etc..no longer are needed hence why we don't see it.

When somebody can give me any shred of a logical medical reason why a person that tests positive for antibody's from previous infection is not the same as being vaccinated, then and only then will I believe the CDC and politicians are acting in good faith and not out of control.
New Jersey seems to be doing really well from a "cases to death" ratio.

But Michigan death toll right now is about 75/day, whereas the absolute peak before was about 135/day....so Michigan is in a tough spot now.
 

WPTLION

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It is tough to guage but also appears that although positive cases are spiking in a lot of Northern areas, we are seeing nowhere near the spiking of fatality to go along with it. Look at a state like New Jersey and they have been below 20 daily fatalities since late May even though daily positives during that time have ranged between 240 per day to 2000 per day but the fatality number really doesn't change.

also the CDC and politicians need to start accepting the fact that these new variants are not like the original Alpha variant that the vaccine basically prevented the vaccinated from getting and transmitting. Now the vaccine basically has maybe a small effect on prevention and transmission but the vaccinated can still get and transmit at high numbers. so the vaccine is not more about protecting yourself from hospitalization and severe reaction to covid and NOT, NOT, NOT about herd immunity and transmission like originally thought. And once you make the simple decision, then most of the mandates and masking, etc..no longer are needed hence why we don't see it.

When somebody can give me any shred of a logical medical reason why a person that tests positive for antibody's from previous infection is not the same as being vaccinated, then and only then will I believe the CDC and politicians are acting in good faith and not out of control.
The day anyone in the Biden adminstration admits that the vaccines aren't going to end covid hell will freeze over. There is literally no reason any one that is healthy should get the shot or booster right now. You saw how well its done against delta and they actually think it will do anything against the new one? So what Biden do....double down. Push more booster, push more businesses to require vaccines. I mean most of the media are inept at best. They won't admit they are wrong either. The good news...the FDA will fast track any changes made to the vaccines...oh boy by the time they get here there will be another varient. Maybe they should try an old fashion vaccine.
 
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bcspsu

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The day anyone in the Biden adminstration admits that the vaccines aren't going to end covid hell will freeze over. There is literally no reason any one that is healthy should get the shot or booster right now. You saw how well its done against delta and they actually think it will do anything against the new one? So what Biden do....double down. Push more booster, push more businesses to require vaccines. I mean most of the media are inept at best. They won't admit they are wrong either. The good news...the FDA will fast track any changes made to the vaccines...oh boy by the time they get here there will be another varient. Maybe they should try an old fashion vaccine.
Since this virus in its various strains is going to be around long after we're gone, people are going to continue to contract it, just like other viruses through history, and no vaccine, which is just a therapeutic, or mask wearing or staying in a basement is going to eradicate it. Therefore, the number of people who test positive for this is frankly irrelevant now. What is relevant is whether there are treatments and therapeutics that can control its effects adequately, which there obviously are. Thus, the obsession with this needs to end.

Unfortunately, every year, there are going to be a certain number of people who are going to contract this virus and die from it; that's reality. However, just like with the Spanish influenza, which still is around, more and more people with every passing year will develop an immunity to it.
 

bcspsu

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It's pretty well known that the virus spreads via prolonged exposure in enclosed spaces. So, the theory that makes the most sense is that when it is summertime, the South is inside with the A/C, while the North is outside enjoying the weather. Then, as the weather turns, the South goes outside, while the North goes inside.

Look now at how badly things are going in Michigan and Pennsylvania now, while Florida seems to be down to almost zero now.

Michigan-Daily-Deaths.png


Florida especially was a reasonably well vaccinated state at the time. Very much on par with Pennsylvania.

The theory that it was the unvaxxed driving Florida while Pa was sitting at a very low number never made sen
It's pretty well known that the virus spreads via prolonged exposure in enclosed spaces. So, the theory that makes the most sense is that when it is summertime, the South is inside with the A/C, while the North is outside enjoying the weather. Then, as the weather turns, the South goes outside, while the North goes inside.

Look now at how badly things are going in Michigan and Pennsylvania now, while Florida seems to be down to almost zero now.

Michigan-Daily-Deaths.png


Florida especially was a reasonably well vaccinated state at the time. Very much on par with Pennsylvania.

The theory that it was the unvaxxed driving Florida while Pa was sitting at a very low number never made sense and was simply stupid and propagated by media members (who are, almost by definition, stupid, mathematically i
se and was simply stupid and propagated by media members (who are, almost by definition, stupid, mathematically illiterate people).
It's pretty well known that the virus spreads via prolonged exposure in enclosed spaces. So, the theory that makes the most sense is that when it is summertime, the South is inside with the A/C, while the North is outside enjoying the weather. Then, as the weather turns, the South goes outside, while the North goes inside.

Look now at how badly things are going in Michigan and Pennsylvania now, while Florida seems to be down to almost zero now.

Michigan-Daily-Deaths.png


Florida especially was a reasonably well vaccinated state at the time. Very much on par with Pennsylvania.

The theory that it was the unvaxxed driving Florida while Pa was sitting at a very low number never made sense and was simply stupid and propagated by media members (who are, almost by definition, stupid, mathematically illiterate people).
So basically it's the same pattern as last year, which probably will be the same pattern for every year.
 

Cletus11

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something crazy......

December 2, 2020 -- Daily 7-day average for positives was 169,690, 7-day average for fatality was 1910.

December 2, 2021 -- Daily 7-day average for positives is 93,680, 7-day average for fatality is 937.

So 93,680/169,690 = 55% of daily positive compared to last year.

So 937/1910 = 49% of daily fatality compared to last year.

Last year at this time we had no vaccinations, the total cases have also gone from 15M to 50M per the data. So an incremental 35M people have tested positive (with some percent of them having natural antibodies).

So when I look at those numbers, the vaccinations (and all the additional exposures with natural antibody's) have done nothing? We are at half the cases and half the death total.

What am I missing?
 

NC2017

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something crazy......

December 2, 2020 -- Daily 7-day average for positives was 169,690, 7-day average for fatality was 1910.

December 2, 2021 -- Daily 7-day average for positives is 93,680, 7-day average for fatality is 937.

So 93,680/169,690 = 55% of daily positive compared to last year.

So 937/1910 = 49% of daily fatality compared to last year.

Last year at this time we had no vaccinations, the total cases have also gone from 15M to 50M per the data. So an incremental 35M people have tested positive (with some percent of them having natural antibodies).

So when I look at those numbers, the vaccinations (and all the additional exposures with natural antibody's) have done nothing? We are at half the cases and half the death total.

What am I missing?

Delta, the dominant variant since last March, is more contageous and less lethal than the original Alpha.
 

bcspsu

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Delta, the dominant variant since last March, is more contageous and less lethal than the original Alpha.
And that's why the number of present cases is irrelevant now. It appears as if subsequent strains are more easily contracted but less deadly, which basically means that this virus, as it mutates, and it always was going to mutate, is behaving like all viruses when they mutate.
 

Cletus11

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Delta, the dominant variant since last March, is more contageous and less lethal than the original Alpha.

but that is not what the data says.

93680/937 = 1 fatality per 100 positive cases using today's numbers.

169690/1910 = 1 fatality per 88 positive cases using last years numbers

so 13% less fatality per case rate which is within the margin of error of how many people are actually getting tested and reported as positive. And that is shocking considering 70% of the population is vaccinated which is supposed to make the fatality numbers go way, way, way down. But we are not seeing that based on the above. You would think with 70% of the population vaccinated (and all the deaths due to Covid already, ie...the dry timber theory) that the fatality per positive would be an order of magnitude different more in the 1 fatality per 500 to 1000 cases, not 1 per 100 cases.