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OT: USA COVID-19 Vaccination Updates

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Michigan - through the roof.

Michigan-Daily-Deaths.png
 
Statistically speaking, all the deaths occur in the 65+ age group. That age group is more than 85% vaccinated. So, yes, something just isn't right.
Hospitals in the Northeast are packed to the gills right now and almost all of them are unvaccinated. So I guess that means that they aren't the 65+ age group. Maybe the data exists but it would be interesting to see trends in deaths by age and vaccination status.
 
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Michigan - through the roof.

Michigan-Daily-Deaths.png
this again goes back to the what are the vaccines doing? The January spike and early May spike in deaths above correspond to daily positive spikes that were about equal of 7000+ cases per day on daily positive in both January and late April/early May. The May spike had a lower fatality total as that point you had a decent vaccine percentage, so made sense. We have huge vaccination numbers now with boosters and yet the daily fatality is actually higher now than it was in January with basically no vaccinations.

How do you explain that. SO vaccine rates of people at risk is above 85% fully vaccinated and 95% with at least one dose yet the fatality rate is HIGHER than it was when nobody was vaccinated.

I am 100% not try to be political or flame or anything, but something is not adding up. Either the vaccines are not working or the data is faulty, those are the only conclusions that can be made.
 
No surprise based on what a "covid death" is defined as. More people dying with covid, even if less are dying due to covid
I don't get this take.

Have I not showed that there are more total deaths, which cannot be explained, except for Covid?

Cletus, can you help me here? What's he saying?

All-Deaths-USA.png
 
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I don't get this take.

Have I not showed that there are more total deaths, which cannot be explained, except for Covid?

Cletus, can you help me here? What's he saying?

All-Deaths-USA.png
I think he is trying to say that a lot of deaths being coded to Covid are not due to Covid but due to old age and co-morbidity. And that is what is skewing the numbers to look like Covid deaths are so high. Your total death curve above refutes that claim as if that was the case, total deaths should not be changing and should be on the red line.

WHich then again leads to the fact is who is dying, what is their vaccine status, and what co-morbidity do they have? WE are completely blind here on what is going on which is scary.
 
I think he is trying to say that a lot of deaths being coded to Covid are not due to Covid but due to old age and co-morbidity. And that is what is skewing the numbers to look like Covid deaths are so high. Your total death curve above refutes that claim as if that was the case, total deaths should not be changing and should be on the red line.

WHich then again leads to the fact is who is dying, what is their vaccine status, and what co-morbidity do they have? WE are completely blind here on what is going on which is scary.
@interrobang you will need to speak for yourself here. I guess Cletus is with me, in that he doesn't see your argument.

Now, I think Cletus and I will both agree that Covid is knocking off people who are within a few years of their natural end, meaning that they've all got bad hearts, are fat, etc. No one is trying to say that we're taking down 35 year old marathon runners with Covid.

But we are saying that it is really indisputable that the people who are dying now are dying NOW rather than next October because of Covid. That seems indisputable.
 
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@interrobang you will need to speak for yourself here. I guess Cletus is with me, in that he doesn't see your argument.

Now, I think Cletus and I will both agree that Covid is knocking off people who are within a few years of their natural end, meaning that they've all got bad hearts, are fat, etc. No one is trying to say that we're taking down 35 year old marathon runners with Covid.

But we are saying that it is really indisputable that the people who are dying now are dying NOW rather than next October because of Covid. That seems indisputable.
I've seen some reports recently that non covid deaths are running higher right now. Not sure what that could mean. If I can find the story I'll post it.

On your last point, when we get to the point where deaths are back to normal. I'll be curious to see if the following 12 months actually have less deaths. There should be but we will see.
 
I've seen some reports recently that non covid deaths are running higher right now. Not sure what that could mean. If I can find the story I'll post it.

On your last point, when we get to the point where deaths are back to normal. I'll be curious to see if the following 12 months actually have less deaths. There should be but we will see.
The peaks in my curve match EXACTLY the surges in Covid deaths - April/May 2020.........Dec/Jan/Feb 2021, and Aug/Sept/Oct/Nov 2021.

So, please, everyone - give up the idea that Covid isn't killing people. It is. It isn't suicides (although I'm sure they're up some), it isn't accidents, it isn't heart attacks. It is Covid.

Failure to accept that really undermines credibility.

Yes, once we get past Covid (which is going to happen soon as we approach herd immunity), total deaths will go under the average.
 
In other words, you have no proof that Pelosi is openly profiteering like Republicans McConnell and McCarthy, but you are going to perpetuate the lie anyway.
other than people directly at NIH telling me how Nancy has been an absolute bitch to them over this whole process by pushing Pfizer to get out as soon as possible and not caring about any data, or having a former Baltimore area lawyer who worked with her family and fellow Baltimore area house member steny hoyer explain the corruption
 
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COVID is killing people. But, I wish we would illustrate who it is killing, and who it is not instead of treating everyone with a blanket policy. Maybe provide free vitamin D testing? That would be much more effective than mandating the vax. But alas, it's all about profit and that would make too much sense.
 
So, I clicked on most of the sources in this study (which was just a summary of other studies). All but one concluded that vit-D levels correspond to COVID severity. Then they conclude the opposite of most of their sources? I guess that's why you actually have to read the sources and studies before using as a supporting argument.


Vitamin D deficiency is one of the health problems people have that died with Covid. There are many others as the people are unhealthy. Screening as you suggested for vitamin d deficiency is not going to solve this.
 
I don't get this take.

Have I not showed that there are more total deaths, which cannot be explained, except for Covid?

Cletus, can you help me here? What's he saying?

All-Deaths-USA.png

He's a broken record with no data or facts to back up whatever that take is.
 
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So on CNN last night, they talked about the craziness in Michigan right now. Cases at all time high, hospitals all full, etc...and finally saw a statistic....78% of people hospitalized with Covid are not vaccinated and 87% of the patients in the ICU with Covid are not vaccinated.

WIth some quick looking around I found the following for Michigan by age:

Over 80% vaccinated for 65+, 70% for 50-64, 60% for 40-49.

So based on that one data point, this surge in hospitals and deaths appears to be mainly an un-vaccinated issue.
 
So on CNN last night, they talked about the craziness in Michigan right now. Cases at all time high, hospitals all full, etc...and finally saw a statistic....78% of people hospitalized with Covid are not vaccinated and 87% of the patients in the ICU with Covid are not vaccinated.

WIth some quick looking around I found the following for Michigan by age:

Over 80% vaccinated for 65+, 70% for 50-64, 60% for 40-49.

So based on that one data point, this surge in hospitals and deaths appears to be mainly an un-vaccinated issue.
Yep and the % vaxxed numbers are so shady too, at least here in MD. Montgomery county released something over a month ago stating the county had over 99% of its residents who were eligible, fully vaccinated. That would include HS kids and as I can tell you from working with athletic data for all 25 HS in the county, we are nowhere close to 99% just based on the HS students who are not vaccinated.

There are two things at play, one, we are a sanctuary county so there are thousands of undocumented who are not figured in that 99% denominator and many of them are not vaxxed. Two, we had a vax mandate to play winter sports, which means most of the county athletes are minority. We had to tell hundreds of players they could not play this year due to no vax. We also currently have an outbreak at a HS with less than 5% white. The narrative of only white country Trumpers not being vaxxed is far from the truth. ALmost all of our positives are AA/Hispanic
 
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Look you’re either healthy, or you’re not. COVID-19 and it’s so-called variants aren’t killing anyone. Being vaccinated is no better than being unvaccinated, especially if your healthy. You can still contract the virus and transmit it, despite being fully vaccinated. The CDC data has been purposefully misleading from the beginning, but the longer the data is seen and analyzed, the more it proves that COVID-19 is just another coronavirus (although man made in the Wuhan China Lab) and it’s already completely circulated the world and combined with other viruses/coronavirus, including the common cold, etc…
 
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So on CNN last night, they talked about the craziness in Michigan right now. Cases at all time high, hospitals all full, etc...and finally saw a statistic....78% of people hospitalized with Covid are not vaccinated and 87% of the patients in the ICU with Covid are not vaccinated.

WIth some quick looking around I found the following for Michigan by age:

Over 80% vaccinated for 65+, 70% for 50-64, 60% for 40-49.

So based on that one data point, this surge in hospitals and deaths appears to be mainly an un-vaccinated issue.
Well I would like that to be true [I am vaxxed and boosted] but color me doubtful without more evidence. Everybody has an agenda. So combining your two sets of data would suggest one of two things.

Since a very high percentage of those over 50 are vaxxed.

.A very high percentage of hospitalizations and ICU would be people under age 50. OR
. An extremely high percentage of those unvaccinated are currently contracting Covid. [If true that could be a good thing for herd immunity although not good for those in the hospital]

Something seems a bit off if these 3 statements are still true
80%+ over 65 are vaccinated
87% of patients in ICU are not vaccinated
most deaths are still those over 65
 
So on CNN last night, they talked about the craziness in Michigan right now. Cases at all time high, hospitals all full, etc...and finally saw a statistic....78% of people hospitalized with Covid are not vaccinated and 87% of the patients in the ICU with Covid are not vaccinated.

WIth some quick looking around I found the following for Michigan by age:

Over 80% vaccinated for 65+, 70% for 50-64, 60% for 40-49.

So based on that one data point, this surge in hospitals and deaths appears to be mainly an un-vaccinated issue.
In PA UPMC said two days ago they had 838 Covid cases admitted system wide in PA. That is just under 25% of thier peak from last year. Yet Geisnger said they are at 120% capacity. Something isn't adding up. My question on hospitalizations is do they need to be there or are they just in the ER. We all know too many people just show up at the ER because they don't have a primary care doctor. I've heard storys that some doctors won't give someone unvaxxed any medicine...they say go to ER.
 
So on CNN last night, they talked about the craziness in Michigan right now. Cases at all time high, hospitals all full, etc...and finally saw a statistic....78% of people hospitalized with Covid are not vaccinated and 87% of the patients in the ICU with Covid are not vaccinated.

WIth some quick looking around I found the following for Michigan by age:

Over 80% vaccinated for 65+, 70% for 50-64, 60% for 40-49.

So based on that one data point, this surge in hospitals and deaths appears to be mainly an un-vaccinated issue.

Every state I'm aware of that tracks breakthrough hospitalizations, and deaths show the same, and it's typically in the 80% +/- of hospitalizations and deaths are not vaccinated.

The NYT's dashboard says that MI has a fully vacc'd rate of 86% for seniors over 65 (and ~4700 of all ages currently hospitalized), based on that number there are ~170k unvaccinated seniors, plenty of tinder still available.
 
Every state I'm aware of that tracks breakthrough hospitalizations, and deaths show the same, and it's typically in the 80% +/- of hospitalizations and deaths are not vaccinated.

The NYT's dashboard says that MI has a fully vacc'd rate of 86% for seniors over 65 (and ~4700 of all ages currently hospitalized), based on that number there are ~170k unvaccinated seniors, plenty of tinder still available.
sort of what i am thinking. we have discussed and I think it is pretty much universally accepted that 90% of the people in the world have gotten exposed or will be exposed to covid by the end of 2022 with the contagiousness of Covid and the current level of people living (ie..no longer in complete lockdown). So even though the vaccine rates of those over 65 are at 85% levels, that is still 15% of 54M (number of USA over 65) so 8M seniors over 65 that are not vaccinated. So let's say 10%+ of those 8M end up in the hospital, still talking a millon people that are going to end up there. So when you crunch a little math, it makes some sense.
 
Look you’re either healthy, or you’re not. COVID-19 and it’s so-called variants aren’t killing anyone. Being vaccinated is no better than being unvaccinated, especially if your healthy. You can still contract the virus and transmit it, despite being fully vaccinated. The CDC data has been purposefully misleading from the beginning, but the longer the data is seen and analyzed, the more it proves that COVID-19 is just another coronavirus (although man made in the Wuhan China Lab) and it’s already completely circulated the world and combined with other viruses/coronavirus, including the common cold, etc…
When this whole sad and drawn out saga is analyzed a hundred years from now, your take probably is going to proven to be much more right than wrong, and the disgraceful thing is that the people who have been promulgating these useless mandates and other "safety" measures probably knew this by the spring or summer of 2020.
 
sort of what i am thinking. we have discussed and I think it is pretty much universally accepted that 90% of the people in the world have gotten exposed or will be exposed to covid by the end of 2022 with the contagiousness of Covid and the current level of people living (ie..no longer in complete lockdown). So even though the vaccine rates of those over 65 are at 85% levels, that is still 15% of 54M (number of USA over 65) so 8M seniors over 65 that are not vaccinated. So let's say 10%+ of those 8M end up in the hospital, still talking a millon people that are going to end up there. So when you crunch a little math, it makes some sense.
And then what percentage of the aren't vaxxed because they can't be, which would mean they are more then likely comprimised. It's been there in black and white for 2 years and the powers that be still won't admit it.
 
So on CNN last night, they talked about the craziness in Michigan right now. Cases at all time high, hospitals all full, etc...and finally saw a statistic....78% of people hospitalized with Covid are not vaccinated and 87% of the patients in the ICU with Covid are not vaccinated.

WIth some quick looking around I found the following for Michigan by age:

Over 80% vaccinated for 65+, 70% for 50-64, 60% for 40-49.

So based on that one data point, this surge in hospitals and deaths appears to be mainly an un-vaccinated issue

Well I would like that to be true [I am vaxxed and boosted] but color me doubtful without more evidence. Everybody has an agenda. So combining your two sets of data would suggest one of two things.

Since a very high percentage of those over 50 are vaxxed.

.A very high percentage of hospitalizations and ICU would be people under age 50. OR
. An extremely high percentage of those unvaccinated are currently contracting Covid. [If true that could be a good thing for herd immunity although not good for those in the hospital]

Something seems a bit off if these 3 statements are still true
80%+ over 65 are vaccinated
87% of patients in ICU are not vaccinated
most deaths are still those over 65

Every state I'm aware of that tracks breakthrough hospitalizations, and deaths show the same, and it's typically in the 80% +/- of hospitalizations and deaths are not vaccinated.

The NYT's dashboard says that MI has a fully vacc'd rate of 86% for seniors over 65 (and ~4700 of all ages currently hospitalized), based on that number there are ~170k unvaccinated seniors, plenty of tinder still available.

Well, I was very skeptical, not trusting governments at all.

However, I think I was wrong.

The numbers make sense....believe it or not.

I'll work through them.....

Prior to vaccine, we had a death to case rate in Michigan of approximately 110 / 7000 (took the last big peaks prior to vaccines being available).

Then, we have two figures for vaccination - 85% for 65+ (where all the deaths are) and 59% overall.

We have two figures for vaccine effectiveness - 85% for death, and 60% for catching it.

Right now, the peak is roughly 8000 cases per day.

That means that there are 8000 * 0.59 * (1 - 0.60) = 1888 cases expected per day vaccinated.....and therefore 6112 cases expected per day among unvaccinated.

Now for those 6112 cases per day among unvaccinated, we expect: 6112 * (110/7000) = 96 Unvaccinated deaths per day.

And among the 1888 cases vaccinated per day, we expect 1888 * (110/7000) * (1-.85) = 4.5 deaths per day.

So, that's 100 deaths per day projected and we're seeing about 120....close enough.

That's hard for me to believe....but I think it is right.
 
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That means that there are 8000 * 0.59 * (1 - 0.60) = 1888 cases expected per day unvaccinated.....and therefore 6112 cases expected per day among unvaccinated

Did you mean the bolded above to read, "vaccinated" ?
 
Well, I was very skeptical, not trusting governments at all.

However, I think I was wrong.

The numbers make sense....believe it or not.

I'll work through them.....

Prior to vaccine, we had a death to case rate in Michigan of approximately 110 / 7000 (took the last big peaks prior to vaccines being available).

Then, we have two figures for vaccination - 85% for 65+ (where all the deaths are) and 59% overall.

We have two figures for vaccine effectiveness - 85% for death, and 60% for catching it.

Right now, the peak is roughly 8000 cases per day.

That means that there are 8000 * 0.59 * (1 - 0.60) = 1888 cases expected per day vaccinated.....and therefore 6112 cases expected per day among unvaccinated.

Now for those 6112 cases per day among unvaccinated, we expect: 6112 * (110/7000) = 96 Unvaccinated deaths per day.

And among the 1888 cases vaccinated per day, we expect 1888 * (110/7000) * (1-.85) = 4.5 deaths per day.

So, that's 100 deaths per day projected and we're seeing about 120....close enough.

That's hard for me to believe....but I think it is right.
The weakest spot in my argument is that I don't have data that comes from each age group. So, we are assuming proportionality in cases to age groups. In other words, I'm assuming that the number of infections is distributed proportionally across age groups. That probably isn't the case.......
 
When this whole sad and drawn out saga is analyzed a hundred years from now, your take probably is going to proven to be much more right than wrong, and the disgraceful thing is that the people who have been promulgating these useless mandates and other "safety" measures probably knew this by the spring or summer of 2020.

I'm sure you believe that, but I don't think a hundred years from now people are going to congratulate selfish people who couldn't get a simple shot or wear a mask when it meant helping out a fellow human. Throughout history people have had to suffer from real oppression. Wearing a mask or taking a shot is pretty low on that totem pole....hard to look like you were fighting for some real freedom there when vaccine mandates go back to colonial times. People trying to find a way to look oppressed is a joke.
 
I'm sure you believe that, but I don't think a hundred years from now people are going to congratulate selfish people who couldn't get a simple shot or wear a mask when it meant helping out a fellow human. Throughout history people have had to suffer from real oppression. Wearing a mask or taking a shot is pretty low on that totem pole....hard to look like you were fighting for some real freedom there when vaccine mandates go back to colonial times. People trying to find a way to look oppressed is a joke.
You wear your N95 mask and then you don't have to worry about what I do.

Period.

End of story.
 
You wear your N95 mask and then you don't have to worry about what I do.

Period.

End of story.
Didn't you say you got the shot already? So you don't wear seat belts? No driver licenses as why should the government tell us who can drive and when? You weren't vaccinated to go to school? I could go on an on but you're the simpleton that Tucker counts on to listen to him every night. GFY and have a great selfish life.
 
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How does that matter? Seriously.

How about this: "You wear your N95 mask, then you don't have to be concerned what other people do"

The principle is: Help yourself before you ask others to help you. Period.
Some people won't ever get the common sense part. There no sense in trying to explain it to them. N95 is probably the only mask that works anyway...and needs to be worn properly.
 
Some people won't ever get the common sense part. There no sense in trying to explain it to them. N95 is probably the only mask that works anyway...and needs to be worn properly.
Well, I'm not sure it isn't more of a lack of principles on the left.

Many very intelligent people have observed that the standard leftist holds power as his over-riding principle. Truth - subordinate to Power. Morality - subordinate to Power. Human dignity - subordinate to Power.

As such, you get the entire left chanting for lockdowns, mask mandates, vaccine passports. Yet all they have to do to protect themselves is wear an N95 mask, properly fitted.

But wearing an N95 mask does not grant them power. Mandates do.
 
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