OT: USA COVID-19 Vaccination Updates

[Cletus11]

The govt is going to have to start tracking the third shot. Stats coming in from Israel are really bad in terms of how quickly the vax is losing effectiveness and infection rates for those vaxxed. I mean, like less than 65% effective for those jabbed early on. But preliminary data, today, is showing the booster is taking that back up to 90%+, even against Delta.

yeah, with the third booster shot, the vaccine numbers are going to start to get jumbled. Almost need to just look purely at the percentage of eligible and percent of total population that have been vaccinated. I might start adding those specifically to the daily report.

definitely seems like Delta is evading the vaccine (and natural antibody from previous infection) at a much higher rate than anything before it. The article yesterday postulated that instead of the 90%+ we had initially that number is somewhere between 40-65% now with no really good data out there to actually figure that out closer than that.

One thing that I am seeing in general is that basically we are hearing more and more people starting to say that we just have to learn to live with Covid. That Covid is going to be around, going to continue to mutate, going to continue to evade antibodies and that we have to learn to live with this sort of new normal. My personal hope is that Delta is sort of the last hurrah and that we don't see any more mutations out there that basically are same or worse then delta and we go through this all over again with large spiking (even amonst the vaccinated) sometime later this year.

 

[Obliviax]

yeah, with the third booster shot, the vaccine numbers are going to start to get jumbled. Almost need to just look purely at the percentage of eligible and percent of total population that have been vaccinated. I might start adding those specifically to the daily report.

definitely seems like Delta is evading the vaccine (and natural antibody from previous infection) at a much higher rate than anything before it. The article yesterday postulated that instead of the 90%+ we had initially that number is somewhere between 40-65% now with no really good data out there to actually figure that out closer than that.

One thing that I am seeing in general is that basically we are hearing more and more people starting to say that we just have to learn to live with Covid. That Covid is going to be around, going to continue to mutate, going to continue to evade antibodies and that we have to learn to live with this sort of new normal. My personal hope is that Delta is sort of the last hurrah and that we don't see any more mutations out there that basically are same or worse then delta and we go through this all over again with large spiking (even amonst the vaccinated) sometime later this year.

I read an article that stated the statistics show decreasing effectiveness of two shots over time and suggested that there were statistics showing a decline by month. However, they did not show the stats or link to them. IIRC, it was done in Israel. The other comments were that, despite the leakage, the severity of infection was lower. Finally, they stated that the goal of "herd immunity" was all but over. Given the leakage, the time to get the third shot out, and the ability of jabbed people to spread COVID was combining to suggest this was no longer a realistic goal.

 

[Waltwam]

700k vaccinations per day puts us over 6 months away from getting 90% (over 12) fully vaccinated (if we actually keep up that rate) which is what the few epidemiologists (the ones willing to use a model and give an estimate) estimate will put us at herd immunity. We need closer to 2.5M vaccinations per day, what we were doing in April.

Current daily vaccination rate is too slow and there is no way even that rate will be sustained. It is too slow because inevitably a variant (I get you say there isn't one identified yet, but it's really a matter of time) that is less responsive to the vaccine and just as communicable and deadly will emerge.

There are too many people who are entrenched and will never get the vaccine even if you bring it to their door. In fact if you bring it to their door, you might get shot.

CDC employees are only at 60%. Has to be a reason they are hesitating!

 

[LaJollaLion]

CDC employees are only at 60%. Has to be a reason they are hesitating!

Physicians are at 96%, same logic apply here?

 

[Waltwam]

Physicians are at 96%, same logic apply here?

I don't know. There are physicians I trust with my life, and physicians I would trust as far as I could throw them. I guess everyone has to follow their own conscience.

 

[Cletus11]

I read an article that stated the statistics show decreasing effectiveness of two shots over time and suggested that there were statistics showing a decline by month. However, they did not show the stats or link to them. IIRC, it was done in Israel. The other comments were that, despite the leakage, the severity of infection was lower. Finally, they stated that the goal of "herd immunity" was all but over. Given the leakage, the time to get the third shot out, and the ability of jabbed people to spread COVID was combining to suggest this was no longer a realistic goal.

correct about the herd immunity considering the vaccinated are now not only getting it but transmitting it. I think that was a shock to most and a very bad revelation.

 

[richie83]

Dumb question but how can they call it a vaccine when it only works for 6 months?? And how does a vaccine get FDA approval for 6 months of effectiveness??

 

[Obliviax]

We need to differentiate breakthrough cases from severity of illness. Admittedly the latter can be difficult to assess from the available information. Still, as I understand it, DELTA is worse for the unvaccinated than the vaccinated.

Yes but that is really a challenge now. First shot, second, third, delta, not delta, age, comorbidity, and so many more variables. When did you get your first and second shot? How about the J&J which was only one shot? Now that you have two shots and need a third, are you still compliant? Can you still go on a cruise, work for certain companies, attend a Raiders game? What about COVID survivors who continue to show much better resistance?

The challenge now is that everything is so fractured. The govt is going to lose control soon (or any semblance of control).

 

[interrobang]

Dumb question but how can they call it a vaccine when it only works for 6 months?? And how does a vaccine get FDA approval for 6 months of effectiveness??

It's a lot longer than 6 months for most people.

But the flu vaccine only lasts 3-4 months

 

[Cletus11]

Dumb question but how can they call it a vaccine when it only works for 6 months?? And how does a vaccine get FDA approval for 6 months of effectiveness??

There isn't data out there saying it only last 6 months. Based on the reviewing what we think we know, it appears that resistance to Covid in some people decrease in time. And we are talking about the delta variant and not the original strains. Science evolves with data and we are living real time right now. If you read the article yesterday, you will also note although not perfect or near as good as it was against the original variants, the vaccine still decreases your likelihood of getting Covid by over 50% and decreases your chances of severe issues by another 5 or 6 times. So the vaccine is still the best defense (besides a healthy immune system) that is out there and substantially better than nothing.

 

[The Spin Meister]

Yes but that is really a challenge now. First shot, second, third, delta, not delta, age, comorbidity, and so many more variables. When did you get your first and second shot? How about the J&J which was only one shot? Now that you have two shots and need a third, are you still compliant? Can you still go on a cruise, work for certain companies, attend a Raiders game? What about COVID survivors who continue to show much better resistance?

The challenge now is that everything is so fractured. The govt is going to lose control soon (or any semblance of control).

OMG......don’t tell the government they are losing control! That’s like throwing holy water on a witch!

 

[BobPSU92]

Yes but that is really a challenge now. First shot, second, third, delta, not delta, age, comorbidity, and so many more variables. When did you get your first and second shot? How about the J&J which was only one shot? Now that you have two shots and need a third, are you still compliant? Can you still go on a cruise, work for certain companies, attend a Raiders game? What about COVID survivors who continue to show much better resistance?

The challenge now is that everything is so fractured. The govt is going to lose control soon (or any semblance of control).

Biden’s got this, with FAUCI. backing him up. We’re in good hands. 🥰

 

[BobPSU92]

There isn't data out there saying it only last 6 months. Based on the reviewing what we think we know, it appears that resistance to Covid in some people decrease in time. And we are talking about the delta variant and not the original strains. Science evolves with data and we are living real time right now. If you read the article yesterday, you will also note although not perfect or near as good as it was against the original variants, the vaccine still decreases your likelihood of getting Covid by over 50% and decreases your chances of severe issues by another 5 or 6 times. So the vaccine is still the best defense (besides a healthy immune system) that is out there and substantially better than nothing.

What would vaccine effectiveness had looked like if DELTA had arrived in April, when many people in the U.S. had just gotten vaccinated?

 

[Cletus11]

OMG......don’t tell the government they are losing control! That’s like throwing holy water on a witch!

yeah, that govt. control and trust ship sailed a while back with Covid. not sure they can gain it back without switching up some players (essentially get a new spokesperson and relegate Fauci to behind the scenes and take CDC director Walensky and greatly reduce her public appearances). Would need a new face on Covid that people can trust as Fauci has lost that for a huge amount of the population and zero way to get that back.

 

[BobPSU92]

yeah, that govt. control and trust ship sailed a while back with Covid. not sure they can gain it back without switching up some players (essentially get a new spokesperson and relegate Fauci to behind the scenes and take CDC director Walensky and greatly reduce her public appearances). Would need a new face on Covid that people can trust as Fauci has lost that for a huge amount of the population and zero way to get that back.

How could I have forgotten Rochelle, Rochelle above? She’s got this too. Leadering.

 

[BobPSU92]

I‘m getting my first Pfizer prick today. While I‘m not completely sold on these vaccines, I do believe they are the best protection we have (even though I am healthy and take zinc and D3 daily). Simply put, I don’t want to take a chance with DELTA. Similar to a point Cletus made today, I’m hoping DELTA is the last bad variant we see with this. By getting pricked late in the game, maybe I won’t need a booster. I won’t bet the house on that, but I can hope.

Whatever. I‘m screwed. 😞

 

[The Spin Meister]

I‘m getting my first Pfizer prick today. While I‘m not completely sold on these vaccines, I do believe they are the best protection we have (even though I am healthy and take zinc and D3 daily). Simply put, I don’t want to take a chance with DELTA. Similar to a point Cletus made today, I’m hoping DELTA is the last bad variant we see with this. By getting pricked late in the game, maybe I won’t need a booster. I won’t bet the house on that, but I can hope.

Whatever. I‘m screwed. 😞

Methinks getting the vax is a wise choice. Even if you get Delta it should be much less severe. Getting it this late may work out well for you if there are no more nasty variants. By the time your eight month is up, this may be pretty much over. And even if it is still raging, we may have advanced vaccines by then as several more are under way.

 

[Obliviax]

I‘m getting my first Pfizer prick today. While I‘m not completely sold on these vaccines, I do believe they are the best protection we have (even though I am healthy and take zinc and D3 daily). Simply put, I don’t want to take a chance with DELTA. Similar to a point Cletus made today, I’m hoping DELTA is the last bad variant we see with this. By getting pricked late in the game, maybe I won’t need a booster. I won’t bet the house on that, but I can hope.

Whatever. I‘m screwed. 😞

totally agree. if you are over 50 and/or have a comorbidity it is a no-brainer. But if you are under the age of 30 and healthy, it is a challenging decision. Good luck finding a table that walks you through the risks by age group and comorbidities. But, overall, one has to yield to the notion that the vaccines are less risky overall.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

Dumb question but how can they call it a vaccine when it only works for 6 months?? And how does a vaccine get FDA approval for 6 months of effectiveness??

It isn't like you wake up at 6 months and effectiveness is totally gone.

The first two doses given so close together act more like a prime dose than two separate immunizations to provide lasting immunity. Many theories circulating right now surmise that Moderna and its 28-day schedule provides a more durable immune response--and that the UK's strategy of delaying second doses accounts for its low hospitalization numbers. Many vaccines on the market have doses spaced far apart for this reason--this time around, vaccine companies/researchers went with what would provide the most immunity soonest.

 

[tgar]

Not helpful. With the continuing reality of comorbidity and hospitalization/mortality having the greatest impact on COVID impact we need to message that. My father in law who is an ER doc said in June of 2020 that we don’t have a COVID problem we have an obesity problem. Nothing from the government or media that if you are obese you need the vaccine. It is a joke. Healthy individuals both vaccinated and unvaccinated are fine. Yes there will be the .001 that is impacted that is healthy but that is the risk we need to take. Tired of the broad brush. We are a country of fat f**** and the longer we pretend this is the same for everyone we do a greater disservice to the country. The fact that we have known this and haven’t started a community health program to educate individuals to this reality is criminal.

In Centre County if you were / are obese, you went to the head of the line in March to get vaccinated.

 

[tgar]

you know the crazy part. The progressives are pretty cutthroat ruthless in that regard. They are basically forbidding that type of data and discussion to occur as they say it would be discriminating against obese people. But at the same time, by not having that discussion, obese people (the people whose feeling they are trying to protect) are put hugely at risk of hospitalization and dying but are not being told that is the case. So protect their feeling at the expense of some of their lives. Just really backward thinking.

I am sure if everyone consults their physician and they should, if they are obese they will be told the situation. The problem is getting fat people to take responsibility and act on their health issues. .

there was a good thread on here recently on losing weight which maybe needs to be resurrected.

 

[TheBigUglies]

I‘m getting my first Pfizer prick today. While I‘m not completely sold on these vaccines, I do believe they are the best protection we have (even though I am healthy and take zinc and D3 daily). Simply put, I don’t want to take a chance with DELTA. Similar to a point Cletus made today, I’m hoping DELTA is the last bad variant we see with this. By getting pricked late in the game, maybe I won’t need a booster. I won’t bet the house on that, but I can hope.

Whatever. I‘m screwed. 😞

Lambda variant is on the horizon or so they say: https://www.khou.com/article/news/h...iant/285-c8db586b-7673-4405-9c7a-11386c3782e8

I think after the Lambdas, we are going to have to worry about the Omega Mu variant!!!

 

[Cletus11]

It isn't like you wake up at 6 months and effectiveness is totally gone.

The first two doses given so close together act more like a prime dose than two separate immunizations to provide lasting immunity. Many theories circulating right now surmise that Moderna and its 28-day schedule provides a more durable immune response--and that the UK's strategy of delaying second doses accounts for its low hospitalization numbers. Many vaccines on the market have doses spaced far apart for this reason--this time around, vaccine companies/researchers went with what would provide the most immunity soonest.

remember when many were calling the UK the devil for daring to vaccinate with one dose only in order to get as many first doses as possible out there as fast as possible before getting everybody the second dose. They were internationally scorned for taking that 'huge risk'. Now seems to have not only been fine, but looking like it was the best medical course of action.

Another media driven hysteria that turned out to be completely wrong yet nobody is apologizing or even recognizing they were wrong.

 

[interrobang]

Figure they will roll out LAMBDA. in another two weeks. Still plenty of letters left.

They've already tried to fearporn Lambda (which has been around for over a year) but it hasn't caught on.

 

[indynittany]

....the vaccine still decreases your likelihood of getting Covid by over 50% and decreases your chances of severe issues by another 5 or 6 times. So the vaccine is still the best defense (besides a healthy immune system) that is out there and substantially better than nothing.

Ivermectin decreases the likelihood of getting Covid by 85% and is particularly effective in early treatment. It is proven safe over decades of use and billions of doses. It's widely available and very inexpensive. With all that we don't know about the long term effects or efficacy of the vaccines and legitimate concern over the deaths and adverse events, about which we do know, how can you argue "the vaccine is still the best defense"?

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

remember when many were calling the UK the devil for daring to vaccinate with one dose only in order to get as many first doses as possible out there as fast as possible before getting everybody the second dose. They were internationally scorned for taking that 'huge risk'. Now seems to have not only been fine, but looking like it was the best medical course of action.

Another media driven hysteria that turned out to be completely wrong yet nobody is apologizing or even recognizing they were wrong.

I remember it very well--and what you describe is lacking context. The UK made decisions based on the ancestral strain and B117. Delta wasn't a "thing" when then. It just so happened Delta made the UK's decision "right" as of this moment.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

Ivermectin decreases the likelihood of getting Covid by 85% and is particularly effective in early treatment. It is proven safe over decades of use and billions of doses. It's widely available and very inexpensive. With all that we don't know about the long term effects or efficacy of the vaccines and legitimate concern over the deaths and adverse events, about which we do know, how can you argue "the vaccine is still the best defense"?

Do the world a favor and shoot yourself up of all the horse parasite medicine you want.

 

[Obliviax]

LOL...I just noticed that the "Rage Against the Machine" concert is for vaccinated people only.

 

[91Joe95]

LOL...I just noticed that the "Rage Against the Machine" concert is for vaccinated people only.

I bet the Street Sweepers Social Club is the same.

 

[AWS1022]

Lambda variant is on the horizon or so they say: https://www.khou.com/article/news/h...iant/285-c8db586b-7673-4405-9c7a-11386c3782e8

I think after the Lambdas, we are going to have to worry about the Omega Mu variant!!!

Those Mus sure can party!

 

[CentexLion]

You can buy it OTC at various farm stores like Tractor Supply.

Not saying you should but that is where some people get it.

Kind of. For about 2+ years, its been under lock and key in the horse aisle. There are many different brands, most with 1.87% active ingredient, but the prices vary from $5 to $20 a tube. I use it every 3 months for my horses, donkeys, and goats, and you should be on a rotation of brands/types every quarter. No prescription needed. They are tubes graduated for 1250 or 1500 pounds of animal and in a cardboard box. Idiots were changing out the $20 tubes and putting them in the $5 boxes, so Tractor Supply put them under lock and key pre-Covid. Sept 1 is my next application on the animals, so I'll see if there are any left, or if it becomes a pain like buying Sudafed now (which I haven't purchased for many years now).

 

[BlueLion]

yeah, that govt. control and trust ship sailed a while back with Covid. not sure they can gain it back without switching up some players (essentially get a new spokesperson and relegate Fauci to behind the scenes and take CDC director Walensky and greatly reduce her public appearances). Would need a new face on Covid that people can trust as Fauci has lost that for a huge amount of the population and zero way to get that back.

The people who don't trust Dr Fauci would find stupid reasons to not trust the next person. Fauci isn't the problem. Fuking idiots are the problem.

 

[AWS1022]

The people who don't trust Dr Fauci would find stupid reasons to not trust the next person. Fauci isn't the problem. Fuking idiots are the problem.

And Fauci is a fuking idiot, so there’s that.

 

[BlueLion]

And Fauci is a fuking idiot, so there’s that.

Fauci's turds are smarter than you.

 

[BobPSU92]

totally agree. if you are over 50 and/or have a comorbidity it is a no-brainer. But if you are under the age of 30 and healthy, it is a challenging decision. Good luck finding a table that walks you through the risks by age group and comorbidities. But, overall, one has to yield to the notion that the vaccines are less risky overall.

I‘m 51 with no comorbidities. Perhaps my biggest concern with COVID is that I have a history of bad pneumonia. Not often, mind you, but I‘ve has two bad bouts of pneumonia in the past eight years. Pneumonia isn’t COVID, but it is a respiratory illness.

My lungs hate me.

 

[Cletus11]

I remember it very well--and what you describe is lacking context. The UK made decisions based on the ancestral strain and B117. Delta wasn't a "thing" when then. It just so happened Delta made the UK's decision "right" as of this moment.

Many in the media were saying how bad UK was to go against 'the science' and spread out the shots. Regardless of Delta or not, that decision ended up not being a bad one. Take delta out of it, there is general discussion now that the shots were given to close together and that spreading them out provides a longer and higher antibody level. Point going, it wasn't a wrong decision for them and worked out on all fronts.

 

[Cletus11]

The people who don't trust Dr Fauci would find stupid reasons to not trust the next person. Fauci isn't the problem. Fuking idiots are the problem.

that is not correct. Fauci has lost credibility amongst many in the medical community as well as bulk of the critical thinking population. He has been shown to flip flop much too often and anybody that took any time to read his emails has seen he is way more politician then medical doctor.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

Many in the media were saying how bad UK was to go against 'the science' and spread out the shots. Regardless of Delta or not, that decision ended up not being a bad one. Take delta out of it, there is general discussion now that the shots were given to close together and that spreading them out provides a longer and higher antibody level. Point going, it wasn't a wrong decision for them and worked out on all fronts.

And there's the cletus we all know and love. Don't stop, my friend.

 

[BobPSU92]

They've already tried to fearporn Lambda (which has been around for over a year) but it hasn't caught on.

They are still getting plenty of mileage out of DELTA. They will use LAMBDA when they need it.

 

[BobPSU92]

And Fauci is a fuking idiot, so there’s that.

that is not correct. Fauci has lost credibility amongst many in the medical community as well as bulk of the critical thinking population. He has been shown to flip flop much too often and anybody that took any time to read his emails has seen he is way more politician then medical doctor.