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Urban, OSU, Endowment

the unnecessary death of McNair under a twice former assistant of Meyer at Maryland,

You conveniently leave out that Durkin was most recently defensive coordinator at Michigan and worked under Harbaugh at Stanford also and under Tyrone Willingham, Gregg Brandon and Will Muschamp. Stretching it a bit?

Why would someone who has 30 or more great options pick a place with this sort of recent track record of abuses?

Putting aside the many factual points I could dispute with you about his current situation, why don't you ask Marshon Lattimore, Denzel Ward, the Bosas, Bradley Roby et cet. Will add that UM had a poor record of discipline at Florida, but not at OSU. (He has publicly said that he was too lenient at Florida, and you are welcome to name one player issue that has been problematic since he has been at OSU)
 
justify a indenfinsible point.

If you are going to call me insane, at least learn to spell. The point I was making was that under past NCAA practice, the fact that a witness may have a bias doesn't mean the NCAA will disregard the testimony of the witness.
 
Urban will be back soon, Delaney will have no comment, it will go away just like MSU. Same old, same old.
 
Great job professor, you caught me in a spelling error. That’s clearly more damaging then errors in logic and decency in your world. SM isn’t going to ever say anything bad about UM for reasons that appear to escape you. And I guess that ZS confession on a text with the victim is a fact that everyone but you are able to acknowledge. Welcome to “ Wife Beaters Are Us “.
 
Some "alleged" wife beaters are innocent.

And, as for his knowledge, no one has heard from Shelly Meyer yet and her explanation of what occurred is one of the most important, if not most important, facet of the case. Yet everyone is jumping on UM as if they know all of the important facts. If she says she kept the info from UM or downplayed it substantially, UM is off the hook.

Of course, on top of this is the issue that in my mind, UM (if he didn't interfere) should be allowed to rely on the findings of a police department in making his personnel decisions. He shouldn't have the duty to investigate the family life of his coaches and become judge and jury on domestic violence issues.

Nobody will hear from Shelley Meyer. Currently she's toting the party line, awaiting the findings of the investigation. She could very well 'take one for the team' if the decision is made to keep UM on.

UM should rely on police findings. But you do agree he has a duty to properly vet his employees. And that responsibility doesn't just stop once they're hired on. He's got an ongoing obligation to protect the brand from inappropriate behavior. If there's even a hint of scandal then he must take action.

So the question remains, if UM knew about 2015 and reported it as he claims, then why did he wait to fire ZS? And lying about not knowing certainly doesn't help his standing.
 
Six official investigations have cleared scientists of accusations of wrongdoing.

Why don't you point out the specifics of the investigation that cleared Mann of the email deletion scheme. (Who was questioned and what evidence was searched. Hint -- that is part of what the parody language was referring to)

Also, who cleared dumbo/liar Mann of lying about winning the the Nobel prize when he filed a defamation suit.

There is a link in the post 281 link (to a detailed rankexploits/ blackboard post) in my first post here that goes through the "investigations" and shows how they were not serious or didn't involve Mann at all. (For instance, British Univ of East Anglia investigations). If you want to challenge this will be happy to respond at other thread.
 
Why don't you point out the specifics of the investigation that cleared Mann of the email deletion scheme. (Who was questioned and what evidence was searched. Hint -- that is part of what the parody language was referring to)

Also, who cleared dumbo/liar Mann of lying about winning the the Nobel prize when he filed a defamation suit.

There is a link in the post 281 link (to a detailed rankexploits/ blackboard post) in my first post here that goes through the "investigations" and shows how they were not serious or didn't involve Mann at all. (For instance, British Univ of East Anglia investigations). If you want to challenge this will be happy to respond at other thread.
Coward
 
But you do agree he has a duty to properly vet his employees. And that responsibility doesn't just stop once they're hired on. He's got an ongoing obligation to protect the brand from inappropriate behavior. If there's even a hint of scandal then he must take action.

I agree with most of what you say. However, I disagree with the hint of scandal language. First, there was a hint of scandal involving Schiano last year, and Meyer properly stood behind him.

Again, Meyer should be able to rely on the police. I question the sincerity of a lot of people attacking Meyer since so little attention has been given to the police. I wouldn't be surprised if either police department screwed up. Both police departments do, and should, have much more responsibility for DV than Meyer. Meyer, and other coaches, should be able to rely on the police to do their job. Police doing their job are going to have a much more beneficial effect on preventing DV than college coaches.

I wholeheartedly support going through the records of the Powell and Florida police departments with a fine-toothed comb. Let the chips fall where they may.
 
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So the question remains, if UM knew about 2015 and reported it as he claims, then why did he wait to fire ZS?

Because the child custody issue (that is what prompted the criminal trespass claim) became front page news, and no matter whether ZS was completely innocent or not, every child custody issue that arises in the future (there have been 5 already) will become front page news. If OSU has breached ZS's contract (salary of $340,000 per year), it is easier to fire him and take the contractual damages hit than to be subject to unpredictable front page issues arising at virtually any time, no matter how trivial a child custody matter may turn out to be.
 
You conveniently leave out that Durkin was most recently defensive coordinator at Michigan and worked under Harbaugh at Stanford also and under Tyrone Willingham, Gregg Brandon and Will Muschamp. Stretching it a bit?



Putting aside the many factual points I could dispute with you about his current situation, why don't you ask Marshon Lattimore, Denzel Ward, the Bosas, Bradley Roby et cet. Will add that UM had a poor record of discipline at Florida, but not at OSU. (He has publicly said that he was too lenient at Florida, and you are welcome to name one player issue that has been problematic since he has been at OSU)
This is my favorite argument of all fans who’s coaches are shady....yeah, he was sketchy at his previous schools, but he’s cleaned up his act now that he’s at my school....I hear it all the time as I live in Kentucky and Coach Cal is suddenly a saint. Scorpion and the frog, coaches are who they are.
 
yeah, he was sketchy at his previous schools, but he’s cleaned up his act now that he’s at my school.

I never said he was "sketchy" at other schools. I would presume that he had a reasonably good past record to that point to be hired as Michigan's defensive coordinator. Harbaugh had any number of people who he could choose, and it is unlikely that he would choose someone with a sketchy past to work at Michigan. To me, it appears that Durkin, working for a weak Maryland program. succumbed to pressure and went over the top there.
 
I never said he was "sketchy" at other schools. I would presume that he had a reasonably good past record to that point to be hired as Michigan's defensive coordinator. Harbaugh had any number of people who could choose, and it is unlikely that he would choose someone with a sketchy past to work at Michigan. To me, it appears that Durkin, working for a weak Maryland program succumbed to pressure and went over the top there.
I was talking about Meyer.
 
Does OSU want to be known as primarily a football school, or a good academic school that also has a powerful football program?

They are already the latter. But their decision here in the next few weeks could make many in the general public think they are only the former.

President Drake's decision here will likely be the defining decision of his OSU Presidency.

Put everything else aside --- Urban lied at B1G Media Days 19 days ago and that lie has been exposed, thus embarrassed the University. That, IMO, is really cause enough for a firing.

If I had to bet - I think he's fired. We will see.
Didn't read all the follow up posts, but IIIRC he can be terminated for dishonesty/lying per his contract.
 
I disagree with your point, but it is a fair point to make. Again, I would ask for someone to point to a player/discipline matter that Meyer has mishandled at OSU.
How would we know? We didn’t know he had a spouse abuser on his staff (and he didn’t learn from having him on his staff at Florida). Maybe these coaches don’t change, maybe they just get better at keeping it hidden. I’m sure coaches that have problems learn how to hide them better at each new school (hello Coach Cal).
 
OSU's average ACT score has risen from something like 23 five years ago to 29 last year. It costs $10,000 a year for in-state tuition at OSU compared to about $30,000 at PSU (I believe I saw that here several months ago). The UM issue will have zero impact on OSU's academics or status. To the extent that a few, uninformed Leftist snowflakes may raise a ruckus, I say good riddance.

My son is a senior in HS this year, and I know that OSU is a very good deal. For instance, better than Miami of Ohio or Bowling Green.

In terms of the impact of one lie, it should be compared to a prominent member of PSU's faculty, Michael Mann, who has been caught lying and in an email deletion scheme and his efforts there were whitewashed by PSU in a non-investigation. See https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/07/climategate-and-the-big-green-lie/59709/ (PSU investigation so poor "it would be difficult to parody." From what I can see, this sorry episode hasn't affected PSU at all.)

Also, Mann lied about having received a Nobel prize. See https://canadafreepress.com/article...l-mann-for-falsely-claiming-he-was-awarded-th (I will anticipate one response. He later said he made a mistake because he received a certificate [that about 400 other people received for an award to the IPCC of which he was a member] and was mistaken. However, how could he honestly state he received the prize when he didn't receive Nobel money) Responses to this issue were discussed in detail on another thread, and I won't respond to Mann issues here again. Here is the thread. https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threa...fore-it-was-sealed.213663/page-8#post-3584634 (the 8th page)

Ah, Michael Mann again.

Do you realize you are the ONLY person here who wants to talk about Michael Mann (in the context of Urban Meyer)?

Besides, as I showed the other day (and as Shendojoe showed elsewhere in this thread), there were a number of other independent organizations that didn't find Mann guilty of academic wrong-doing.
 
I never said he was "sketchy" at other schools. I would presume that he had a reasonably good past record to that point to be hired as Michigan's defensive coordinator. Harbaugh had any number of people who he could choose, and it is unlikely that he would choose someone with a sketchy past to work at Michigan. To me, it appears that Durkin, working for a weak Maryland program. succumbed to pressure and went over the top there.

You are so fanatical that your ‘arguments’ fold in on themselves (boxing you in) and are completely devoid of ratiionality. I hope your not someone that must use logic to support a family or a company’s direction. You remain a pot-shooting coward.
 
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Are you insane? Now you’re using Cam Newton and his shady past as a valid defense for UM! Some people have no shame when trying to justify a indenfinsible point.

dailybuck77 will do anything to divert attention from these facts:

(1) Urban Meyer lied at B1G Media Days 19 days ago.

(2) that lie led to Ohio State University being embarrassed,

(3) President Drake may take a "very dim view" of one his University's most visible employees acting this way.
 
there were a number of other independent organizations that didn't find Mann guilty of academic wrong-doing.

See link particularly, Blackboard / rankexploits for detailed explanation instead of superficial summary of reports, many of which only tangentially deal with the 2 issues I raised pertaining to Mann.
 
that lie led to Ohio State University being embarrassed,

I am mildly embarrassed. OSU, like virtually all of academia, is a Leftwing organization and it embarrasses itself in much worse ways. Such as its diversity office asking people not to wear green or red during the Christmas season.
 
See link particularly, Blackboard / rankexploits for detailed explanation instead of superficial summary of reports, many of which only tangentially deal with the 2 issues I raised pertaining to Mann.

Again - the topic of this thread is Urban Meyer.

You're the only person on the planet who is bringing up Michael Mann in the context of Urban Meyer.

If you really want to talk about Mann, you should start another thread.
 
I am mildly embarrassed. OSU, like virtually all of academia, is a Leftwing organization and it embarrasses itself in much worse ways. Such as its diversity office asking people not to wear green or red during the Christmas season.

Do you know what embarrasses me?

People who find ways to interject politics into EVERYTHING.

What the hell does (1) OSU's diversity office, (2) OSU being a leftwing organization, or (3) Michael Mann have to do with the topic of this thread (Urban Meyer)?

The answer is nothing. Your presence in this thread is being nothing more than a "political jag-off."

You know where the political board is. Go over there.
 
You conveniently leave out that Durkin was most recently defensive coordinator at Michigan and worked under Harbaugh at Stanford also and under Tyrone Willingham, Gregg Brandon and Will Muschamp. Stretching it a bit?



Putting aside the many factual points I could dispute with you about his current situation, why don't you ask Marshon Lattimore, Denzel Ward, the Bosas, Bradley Roby et cet. Will add that UM had a poor record of discipline at Florida, but not at OSU. (He has publicly said that he was too lenient at Florida, and you are welcome to name one player issue that has been problematic since he has been at OSU)

So Durkin was most influenced by both Meyer and Harbaugh. Who cares? We are discussing Meyer.

And at Ohio St both of his current coordinators have a laundry list of scandals and abuse issues- Def Coord Schiano (coached under Sandusky, fired by Tampa over autocratic style, and rejected by Tenn for his stink), Off Coord. Kevin Wilson (fired at Indiana for mistreatment of players including forcing them to play with serious injuries).

Do you deny that your current AD and administration permitted the sexual assault of Ohio St athletes for decades?

Do you admit that Urban Meyer hired someone he knew personally to be abusive or at least alleged to be abusive before he sent his fixers to shut it down?

Do you admit that Ohio St not only didn't fire Smith after the 2015 incident but continued to promote and give generous raises (except during the year of the 2015 incident)?

Do you admit that 3 sports at Ohio St are currently involved in scandals involving abuse?

For the life of me, I cannot understand why you can't see why firing Meyer, both coordinators at minimum, and the AD isn't the best move for Ohio St. Otherwise, you are permanently damaged goods as a program.

Without those firings, you are the program that is known for abusing it's own athletes, spouses, etc. Don't you want to rid yourself of this well deserved image that is the result of quite a few data points in a very broad and undeniable trend at Ohio St?
 
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Do you deny that your current AD and administration permitted the sexual assault of Ohio St athletes for decades?

No. I believe Andy Geiger was AD during the last years when Strauss was doc who assaulted people. Michael Drake, the current OSU president has only been president since 2014. Since 1996, OSU has had about 6 presidents.

Do you admit that Ohio St not only didn't fire Smith after the 2015 incident but continued to promote and give generous raises (except during the year of the 2015 incident)?

He did receive raises, but so did everyone at OSU. He was the lowest paid assistant on the staff. So what.

Do you admit that 3 sports at Ohio St are currently involved in scandals involving abuse?

No. The wrestling issues ended in 1996. Besides, the dead doctor who committed felonies, the worst that anyone at OSU did, was commit the misdemeanor crime of not reporting a felony. This duty if applicable (close question whether witnesses would know that Doc was committing felonies that would prompt their criminal law duty to report) was equally applicable to all of the student wrestlers as it was was to assistant coach Jim Jordan.

The diving issue is Mickey Mouse. Upon finding out about the misdeeds, the coach was fired within 2 weeks.

We will see in the next week or so whether there was a football scandal involving UM. The mother of CS says that CS was not a victim. We still haven't heard from the most important witness, Shelly Meyer.

So, what I see is a lynch mob trying to tie superficially related events to smear OSU before all of the evidence is in.
 
I question the sincerity of a lot of people attacking Meyer since so little attention has been given to the police.
Hmmm. You mean like the media, NCAA, and B1G attempting to destroy Penn State without even looking at TSM?
Give me your Reader's Digest version (if you've given it, I didn't see it) of the Sandusky scandal and Joe Paterno's involvement. Thank you.

OL
 
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Hmmm. You mean like the media, NCAA, and B1G attempting to destroy Penn State without even looking at TSM?
Give me your Reader's Digest version (if you've given it, I didn't see it) of the Sandusky scandal and Joe Paterno's involvement. Thank you.

OL

With respect to Joe Pa, he was definitely a victim. He reported what he was told and the prosecutor has said that Joe Pa was not covering up. I said this in a Jim Jordan thread about 4 weeks ago, before UM situation arose.
 
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F*ck ohio state.

F*ck michigan state.

F*ck michigan.

F*ck maryland.

F*ck the b1g.

F*ck everyone.
 
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OSU's average ACT score has risen from something like 23 five years ago to 29 last year. It costs $10,000 a year for in-state tuition at OSU compared to about $30,000 at PSU (I believe I saw that here several months ago). The UM issue will have zero impact on OSU's academics or status. To the extent that a few, uninformed Leftist snowflakes may raise a ruckus, I say good riddance.

My son is a senior in HS this year, and I know that OSU is a very good deal. For instance, better than Miami of Ohio or Bowling Green.

In terms of the impact of one lie, it should be compared to a prominent member of PSU's faculty, Michael Mann, who has been caught lying and in an email deletion scheme and his efforts there were whitewashed by PSU in a non-investigation. See https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/07/climategate-and-the-big-green-lie/59709/ (PSU investigation so poor "it would be difficult to parody." From what I can see, this sorry episode hasn't affected PSU at all.)

Also, Mann lied about having received a Nobel prize. See https://canadafreepress.com/article...l-mann-for-falsely-claiming-he-was-awarded-th (I will anticipate one response. He later said he made a mistake because he received a certificate [that about 400 other people received for an award to the IPCC of which he was a member] and was mistaken. However, how could he honestly state he received the prize when he didn't receive Nobel money) Responses to this issue were discussed in detail on another thread, and I won't respond to Mann issues here again. Here is the thread. https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threa...fore-it-was-sealed.213663/page-8#post-3584634 (the 8th page)
Inaccuracies presented as facts, ad hominem attacks, and whataboutism. One of the best and most reliable ways to judge the merit and intent of an argument is to look for logical and rhetorical fallacies. ^ This fails the test badly.
 
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Inaccuracies presented as facts, ad hominem attacks, and whataboutism.

Generalizations unsupported by specifics. The fallacy of not knowing what you are talking about and the inability to logically or factually support your undisclosed opinions related to the subject at hand.
 
Generalizations unsupported by specifics. The fallacy of not knowing what you are talking about and the inability to logically or factually support your undisclosed opinions related to the subject at hand.
My point was simple and direct. You didn’t refute any part of it in any way. I’m embarrassed for you.
 
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