Unreasonable expectations

[scpsu76]

At the beginning of the season I was asked about my prediction for the season and said 9 and 3 at best. The loss of so many starters from 2017, the loss of 2 medical retirements and a new OC in 2018 made it clear to me that we were in a regrouping year.

There were far too many expectations for a team with 3 senior starters.

 

[lionpride90]

At the beginning of the season I was asked about my prediction for the season and said 9 and 3 at best. The loss of so many starters from 2017, the loss of 2 medical retirements and a new OC in 2018 made it clear to me that we were in a regrouping year.

There were far too many expectations for a team with 3 senior starters.

We are just not there up front. The interior lines of both sides of the ball are middle of the pack in the B10 at best. It's just a fact. Until that changes I do not see us being elite.

 

[AWS1022]

At the beginning of the season I was asked about my prediction for the season and said 9 and 3 at best. The loss of so many starters from 2017, the loss of 2 medical retirements and a new OC in 2018 made it clear to me that we were in a regrouping year.

There were far too many expectations for a team with 3 senior starters.

We’ve been spoiled early. No way we should have won the Big in 2016 and since we did, expectations have been ridiculous.

 

[Pennstate4life]

At the beginning of the season I was asked about my prediction for the season and said 9 and 3 at best. The loss of so many starters from 2017, the loss of 2 medical retirements and a new OC in 2018 made it clear to me that we were in a regrouping year.

There were far too many expectations for a team with 3 senior starters.

I'm very quick to admit, I of course thought losing all that we lost was going to hurt, however I made the mistake of thinking that Juwan would step right in for Hamilton and become a star, Trace's go to guy. I naively thought the young talented guys on Defense would step right in and there wouldn't be a massive drop off. I was wrong on so many levels. This is very much a rebuilding year

 

[fastlax16]

How many players did the buckeyes lose prior to winning the big ten in 2017?

 

[scpsu76]

How many players did the buckeyes lose prior to winning the big ten in 2017?

Ohio state had 10 senior starters in 2017

 

[AWS1022]

How many players did the buckeyes lose prior to winning the big ten in 2017?

And we’re not recruiting at their level.

 

[fastlax16]

Ohio state had 10 senior starters in 2017

That wasn’t my question.

They had 7 drafted prior to 2017. They had 7 drafted prior to this season as well. Penn state had 6. They had 12 in the 2016 draft and still made the playoff the following season.

 

[scpsu76]

That wasn’t my question.

They had 7 drafted prior to 2017. They had 7 drafted prior to this season as well. Penn state had 6. They had 12 in the 2016 draft and still made the playoff the following season.

You are missing my point. My point is that teams that have double digit # of Senior starters are usually more experienced, bigger and stronger than those with 3 senior starers..

 

[4INSBU]

The OLine has been a major disappointment this season. We might have been shut out if Sanders didn't make those two big runs yesterday.

 

[fastlax16]

You are missing my point. My point is that teams that have double digit # of Senior starters are usually more experienced, bigger and stronger than those with 3 senior starers..

You talk like we are starting 11 freshmen on each side of the ball. There are only 5 freshman/sophomores starting on both sides of the ball and two of those sophomores were redshirts so they’ve been in the program for 3 years. Put another way, only 3 starters have spent less than 3 years in the program. The youth excuse is just that, an excuse.

 

[wolve1972]

And we’re not recruiting at their level.

I think that's the key. Recruiting monsters like OSU and Alabama can plug in new people the next year after so many leave because they play many players during the course of the year. Many don't start but have experience for the following year. You constantly hear stuff about OSU's depth and it really becomes evident when they turn players over every year

 

[sluggo72]

At the beginning of the season I was asked about my prediction for the season and said 9 and 3 at best. The loss of so many starters from 2017, the loss of 2 medical retirements and a new OC in 2018 made it clear to me that we were in a regrouping year.

There were far too many expectations for a team with 3 senior starters.

It's unreasonable to expect to beat MSU at home?? Ok I'll lower mine

 

[WarrentonLion]

I agree about expectations, but I do think it is totally reasonable to expect more from our coaching staff and players. Piss poor play clock management, awful special teams gaffes, dropped balls, missed assignments. These are all things we need to do MUCH better regardless of losing talent and changes on the staff.

 

[Nitwit97]

Don’t like the premise. It is justifying coming up short after the fact. I don’t think it is unreasonable to think that you could hold onto a 12 point lead with 8 minutes left or unreasonable to beat a 14 point underdog with a bye week to prep. That isn’t unreasonable, and that is where the frustration from the fan base stems. It is magnified by the fact that the trend of leading the biggest games and coming up short is now in its second year. When this team cut its teeth in 2016, it’s hallmark was finishing strong and/or coming from behind to win in the biggest moments (Ohio State and Wisconsin), now it seems the team
Fails just as it is on the cusp of achieving major goals.

So no, it is not unreasonable that the goals before the final week of September were a possible playoff berth. I think heading in, most though this was anywhere between an 8 to 10 win team, and after the season plays out, the results will be judged against that. But you cannot put a blind eye to the events of the last two games to justify lowered expectations.

 

[fastlax16]

Don’t like the premise. It is justifying coming up short after the fact. I don’t think it is unreasonable to think that you could hold onto a 12 point lead with 8 minutes left or unreasonable to beat a 14 point underdog with a bye week to prep. That isn’t unreasonable, and that is where the frustration from the fan base stems. It is magnified by the fact that the trend of leading the biggest games and coming up short is now in its second year. When this team cut its teeth in 2016, it’s hallmark was finishing strong and/or coming from behind to win in the biggest moments (Ohio State and Wisconsin), now it seems the team
Fails just as it is on the cusp of achieving major goals.

So no, it is not unreasonable that the goals before the final week of September were a possible playoff berth. I think heading in, most though this was anywhere between an 8 to 10 win team, and after the season plays out, the results will be judged against that. But you cannot put a blind eye to the events of the last two games to justify lowered expectations.

This. It’s not unreasonable to expect the team to win games it leads in the 4th quarter.

 

[GregInPitt]

We are just not there up front. The interior lines of both sides of the ball are middle of the pack in the B10 at best. It's just a fact. Until that changes I do not see us being elite.

Agree 100%. Our OL and DL match up decently against the average and below average teams we play, but not against the teams we need to beat to get to to consideration for a playoff spot.

The OL is now average, coming from dismal a few years back. Not until we get top talent on the OL will we be able to really compete for a playoff spot with a legit chance to actually win the 2 playoff games it takes to win a MNC. It takes an OL with at least a couple legit NFL players. Our OT situation is the worst part of the line in my opinion. Bates could be an NFL caliber Guard, IF we had better OT's. The 2018 class was supposed to provide those NFL caliber OT's, but now Big Nana is out of football and Walker, still a top talent, has shown his off the field decisions may also be a factor in his journey to being a top OT. CJF needs to find at least one top OT to finish the 2018 class. We seem to be in better shape in the interior OL, with Menet having years to play and improve, along with the two Guards having another year to play and get better. But having to move Thorpe to D is a hit for the future of the OL if he stays on D.

And the DL is in the same spot, with the lack of top DT talent on the roster. Hopefully Mustopher proves to be the next NFL caliber PSU DT. Handsard was a highly sought after DT, but has yet to show much, but he is still young so we'll see what his future brings. Hope his injury yesterday is not serious, but it did not look good. So we are thin at DT in depth and talent. DE seems to be in better shape, with Miller and the improving YGM, but it's not like we have a DE that can dominate the play the way someone like Bosa does or Nassib did. Adding a player like Harrisat fielding 3 experienced and talented LB's, which we have not done in a few years, would make the DL look better........

 

[nits74]

You talk like we are starting 11 freshmen on each side of the ball. There are only 5 freshman/sophomores starting on both sides of the ball and two of those sophomores were redshirts so they’ve been in the program for 3 years. Put another way, only 3 starters have spent less than 3 years in the program. The youth excuse is just that, an excuse.

Playing the sanctions card is getting a little old also.

 

[ILLINOISLION]

Reasonable or unreasonable expectations, this team tried to give away the App St game but failed. They did give away tOSU game. They did give away the MSU game.

This team has been as self-destructive as any PSU team that I remember.

Another team beats you, hey, that’s football. When you beat yourself (time after time after time after time after time), no excuses.

 

[ncgolfer]

One of the main reasons we keep losing games in the last quarter is the front 7 on defense. The starting D-Line this year is average (perhaps the higher end of average) for the Big Ten. The LBing is at best average. Our front seven on defense is not even as good as Michigan State. I thought going into the season 9-3 would be good. I still think it is. The receiving core (except Hamler) has been the biggest disappointment this season to me.......especially Johnson. The rest of the team has played to the level that I thought they would except for Freiermuth who’s has clearly played very well. Sanders too. Franklin needs to give serious thought to replacing Pinegar with Gillikin. Pinegar is just not getting it done.

 

[Wandering Spectator]

How many players did the buckeyes lose prior to winning the big ten in 2017?

Yea but they overcame their sanctions much quicker than we are overcoming ours. Oh wait...

Keep the faith. I love what CJF is doing for this program - on and off the field.

 

[fastlax16]

Yea but they overcame their sanctions much quicker than we are overcoming ours. Oh wait...

Keep the faith. I love what CJF is doing for this program - on and off the field.

The sanctions are not an excuse for this. Sorry.

 

[mn78psu83]

The sanctions aren’t not an excuse for this. Sorry.

They aren't or they aren't not?

 

[Carl Spackler]

They aren't or they aren't not?

Absolutely.

 

[fastlax16]

They aren't or they aren't not?

Typing on my phone.

 

[Nitwit97]

Reasonable or unreasonable expectations, this team tried to give away the App St game but failed. They did give away tOSU game. They did give away the MSU game.

This team has been as self-destructive as any PSU team that I remember.

Another team beats you, hey, that’s football. When you beat yourself (time after time after time after time after time), no excuses.

Amen! Preach the word! Spot on, every point.

 

[AWS1022]

Playing the sanctions card is getting a little old also.

How did other teams do after similar sanctions? Oh that’s right, no one had them that bad except SMU and it’s only been what 30 years and they still suck. USC still isn’t back and theirs weren’t as severe as ours.

 

[michnittlion]

How did other teams do after similar sanctions? Oh that’s right, no one had them that bad except SMU and it’s only been what 30 years and they still suck. USC still isn’t back and theirs weren’t as severe as ours.

That's revisionist history at its finest.

Here are some actual numbers:

Penn State:

Players who leveraged their free-transfer rights in July 2012: 9. MINUS 9.
February 2013: Could only sign 15 instead of 25. MINUS 10.
February 2014: Could only sign 20 instead of 25. MINUS 5.
Feburary 2015: Could sign the usual 25. MINUS 0.

Total loss = 24

USC:

February 2012: Could only sign 15 instead of 25. MINUS 10.
February 2013: Could only sign 15 instead of 25. MINUS 10.
February 2014: Could only sign 15 instead of 25. MINUS 10.
February 2015: Could sign the usual 25. MINUS 0.

Total loss = 30

 

[AWS1022]

That's revisionist history at its finest.

Here are some actual numbers:

Penn State:

Players who leveraged their free-transfer rights in July 2012: 9. MINUS 9.
February 2013: Could only sign 15 instead of 25. MINUS 10.
February 2014: Could only sign 20 instead of 25. MINUS 5.
Feburary 2015: Could sign the usual 25. MINUS 0.

Total loss = 24

USC:

February 2012: Could only sign 15 instead of 25. MINUS 10.
February 2013: Could only sign 15 instead of 25. MINUS 10.
February 2014: Could only sign 15 instead of 25. MINUS 10.
February 2015: Could sign the usual 25. MINUS 0.

Total loss = 30

You’re forgetting the tarnished reputation and the “icky” opinion of PSU that kept kids from coming here. That number can’t be measured.

 

[fastlax16]

You’re forgetting the tarnished reputation and the “icky” opinion of PSU that kept kids from coming here. That number can’t be measured.

And none of it is an excuse for this season, unless you want to say that 2016 and 2017 were fluke seasons and shouldnt have happened.

 

[michnittlion]

You’re forgetting the tarnished reputation and the “icky” opinion of PSU that kept kids from coming here. That number can’t be measured.

How convenient for your "argument" ---- I present numbers, you talk about stuff "that can't be measured."

Besides, as fastlax16 said: none of that nonsense is an excuse for what's happening here in 2018.

 

[kgilbert78]

Agree 100%. Our OL and DL match up decently against the average and below average teams we play, but not against the teams we need to beat to get to to consideration for a playoff spot.

The OL is now average, coming from dismal a few years back. Not until we get top talent on the OL will we be able to really compete for a playoff spot with a legit chance to actually win the 2 playoff games it takes to win a MNC. It takes an OL with at least a couple legit NFL players. Our OT situation is the worst part of the line in my opinion. Bates could be an NFL caliber Guard, IF we had better OT's. The 2018 class was supposed to provide those NFL caliber OT's, but now Big Nana is out of football and Walker, still a top talent, has shown his off the field decisions may also be a factor in his journey to being a top OT. CJF needs to find at least one top OT to finish the 2018 class. We seem to be in better shape in the interior OL, with Menet having years to play and improve, along with the two Guards having another year to play and get better. But having to move Thorpe to D is a hit for the future of the OL if he stays on D.

And the DL is in the same spot, with the lack of top DT talent on the roster. Hopefully Mustopher proves to be the next NFL caliber PSU DT. Handsard was a highly sought after DT, but has yet to show much, but he is still young so we'll see what his future brings. Hope his injury yesterday is not serious, but it did not look good. So we are thin at DT in depth and talent. DE seems to be in better shape, with Miller and the improving YGM, but it's not like we have a DE that can dominate the play the way someone like Bosa does or Nassib did. Adding a player like Harrison could make DE depth look much better in 2019 if CJF can pull it off. But I must add the fielding 3 experienced and talented LB's, which we have not done in a few years, would make the DL look better........

The sanctions, much as everyone hates to hear it, are still an issue. That's why we don't have the 4th and 5th year seniors you usually would have. Yet. We're a little light on depth too, for the same reason, which is one reason why holding a lead in the 4th is tougher. We should be in much more of a regular rotation in terms of classes going forward.

 

[fastlax16]

The sanctions, much as everyone hates to hear it, are still an issue. That's why we don't have the 4th and 5th year seniors you usually would have. Yet. We're a little light on depth too, for the same reason, which is one reason why holding a lead in the 4th is tougher. We should be in much more of a regular rotation in terms of classes going forward.

2016 should have never happened if the situation is as dire as you paint it. I assume you think expectations need to be low next year since the QB will be a first year starter.

 

[Linedrivedad02]

I think blaming the o-line is misdirected frustration. This line is AS TALENTED as those in the b10. The o-line coach was/is one of the tops at his position. This is an offensive scheme and strategy issue. You must be able to get under center and line up with or without a fullback and force your will on the other team by pounding the ball. Look at Clemson osu Bama They all do this with regularity. Physically punishing your opponent breaks their will and opens other options for success.

Until this offensive thought process changes, you won’t put teams away, I’m afraid what we see will be the norm.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

You’re forgetting the tarnished reputation and the “icky” opinion of PSU that kept kids from coming here. That number can’t be measured.

Not to mention the four or five (4* or better) guys OSU swiped when everything hit. It's not an excuse anymore, but it hurt for a while. IIRC Jabrill Peppers said it factored into his decision.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

I think blaming the o-line is misdirected frustration. This line is AS TALENTED as those in the b10. The o-line coach was/is one of the tops at his position. This is an offensive scheme and strategy issue. You must be able to get under center and line up with or without a fullback and force your will on the other team by pounding the ball. Look at Clemson osu Bama They all do this with regularity. Physically punishing your opponent breaks their will and opens other options for success.

Until this offensive thought process changes, you won’t put teams away, I’m afraid what we see will be the norm.

Talent doesn't always equal results. When Franklin praised the OL in the pre-season (noting he rarely gives praise without warrant), what was he praising? Talent? Honest question. IMO, that's why they're a big disappointment - he singled them out and they haven't delivered (or the scheme hasn't).

 

[jrd23psu]

We are never going to be elite with Franklin. He is an average coach who is a great recruiter. That makes him a good coach. You need to be a hell of a lot better than a good coach if you want to compete for the B1G every year.

We will continue to be good. 8-4 to 10-2 on a regular basis good. Once every 4-5 years if all of the bounces go our way (like 2016) we might win the B1G and end up ranked 6-9 heading into bowl games. Franklin isn't a guy who will take us to the promise land (the CFB playoff) but he's going to be consistently good.

 

[Nitwit97]

We are never going to be elite with Franklin. He is an average coach who is a great recruiter. That makes him a good coach. You need to be a hell of a lot better than a good coach if you want to compete for the B1G every year.

We will continue to be good. 8-4 to 10-2 on a regular basis good. Once every 4-5 years if all of the bounces go our way (like 2016) we might win the B1G and end up ranked 6-9 heading into bowl games. Franklin isn't a guy who will take us to the promise land (the CFB playoff) but he's going to be consistently good.

Plus 1. It is a shame, because the guy is a walking promo for the school. Hopefully he sees the light and gets top notch coordinators, then he had a chance. Otherwise, you hit it right on the head.

 

[IANit]

At the beginning of the season I was asked about my prediction for the season and said 9 and 3 at best. The loss of so many starters from 2017, the loss of 2 medical retirements and a new OC in 2018 made it clear to me that we were in a regrouping year.

There were far too many expectations for a team with 3 senior starters.

I'd be happy with 9-3 right now. Iowa, @Michigan and Wisconsin in 3 straight weeks would be tough if the team was playing great.

 

[AWS1022]

And none of it is an excuse for this season, unless you want to say that 2016 and 2017 were fluke seasons and shouldnt have happened.

Ok, using your numbers, how fast did USC bounce back? Oh wait, they still haven’t. Yet we have a Big championship and a NY6 bowl win in far less time. Bottom line, sanctions usually hurt for a lot of years, so to ignore them simply because CJF has had success is very short sighted. If he came in on a level playing field, then you might have an argument, but he didn’t so it’s impossible to say that the sanctions shouldn’t still be having an effect on the program (all evidence points to the opposite).