UM reaches $490 million settlement with Anderson accusers

The Kid Twist

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WHCANole

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Numerous players came to him personally to tell him what they were suffering and he IGNORED THEM! You can't compare any of this to Joe. That Bo statue should be demolished immediately!

https://www.si.com/college/michigan...otball-doctor-robert-anderson-bo-schembechler
What you posted does not indicate what you allege. It does have a similarity to the PSU scandal in that it was known about by the institution and went on for years. Joe was told about CSA back in the 70s. We have a smoking gun on Joe but I'm not seeing it for Bo.
 

WHCANole

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Ohio State also had a sicko doctor who liked to abuse people for decades and no one did anything! Do Universities just attract these sicko doctors. This low-life REALLY liked the OSU wrestling team. I didn't see any heavy coverage of this on ESPN?

https://www.si.com/college/2020/05/09/ohio-state-settlement-richard-strauss-sexual-abuse
Seems like the PSU type culture was in other institutions. Really, this is not unusual in that powerful popular institutions often cover up like PSU to hide wrongdoing. It's important that when they get caught accountability is doled out. In the case of Joe and CSS that happened.
 
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PSU2UNC

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Sandusky had contemporaneous reports as well dating back to the 70s.
This is factually incorrect. V1 is the only one who had a contemporaneous report, but was not taken serious because he had previous lied to authority figures about a variety of other issues.
Also, the accusers at Sandusky's trial were not promised anything prior to his conviction and had Sandusky been acquitted would have received nothing.
Promised? No, not promised. But PSU made it clear that they were opening their checkbook, prior to the trial. And your second sentence explains why they had a huge incentive to lie (no conviction, no $$)
So, it's purely a numbers thing? 30 accusers is a lot and would take quite a conspiracy to all coordinate their lies.
None of those 30 accusers were adequately vetted by PSU before settlement payments. Those who did not have Shubin as their attorney have different stories (including some that are ridiculous). If you think a singular attorney coaching his clients what to say to get a massive payday is a conspiracy, we have a different definition of conspiracy. I'd call it "a dishonest and unethical attorney".

What number would one have to reach to make someone guilty (in this case without a trial)? 50, 100, 500?
I feel like 1000 is pretty good.
Why did these 1000s of ADULT accusers not go to the police? Why didn't they sue beforehand rather than wait long after Anderson was dead?
You'd have to ask them that.
See, the same BS you and Ziegler use to defend Sandusky and CSS plus Joe can be used to defend Anderson but he is not a religious icon is he? That is the fascinating part to me.
1000 vs 30. Many believable contemporaneous reports vs none.

I will admit I do not know as much about the Anderson case as I do about Sandusky. But the numbers alone are staggering and point to guilt.
 

PSU2UNC

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Joe was told about CSA back in the 70s. We have a smoking gun on Joe but I'm not seeing it for Bo.
This is factually incorrect. Joe was not told about CSA in the 70s. This has been debunked by one of the accusers attorneys.
 

PSU2UNC

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Seems like the PSU type culture was in other institutions. Really, this is not unusual in that powerful popular institutions often cover up like PSU to hide wrongdoing. It's important that when they get caught accountability is doled out. In the case of Joe and CSS that happened.
On the surface, it certainly appears that way. But when you do a deep dive into the facts, it becomes clear that there was no cover up at PSU. The courts and the feds both agree.

Maybe someone will do a deep dive into Michigan to show that there was no coverup. But it doesn't seem that way.
 

WHCANole

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This is factually incorrect. V1 is the only one who had a contemporaneous report, but was not taken serious because he had previous lied to authority figures about a variety of other issues.
You are incorrect. An accuser told Joe himself in 1971 and Penn State paid him. Ruh Roh!
Promised? No, not promised. But PSU made it clear that they were opening their checkbook, prior to the trial. And your second sentence explains why they had a huge incentive to lie (no conviction, no $$)
Do you have proof that PSU told the accusers that they would get millions before the trial?
None of those 30 accusers were adequately vetted by PSU before settlement payments.
The ones from the trial too? I'd say well vetted.
Those who did not have Shubin as their attorney have different stories (including some that are ridiculous).
What are you saying about Shubin?
If you think a singular attorney coaching his clients what to say to get a massive payday is a conspiracy, we have a different definition of conspiracy. I'd call it "a dishonest and unethical attorney".
Do you have any proof of any of that? I think that's against the law.
I feel like 1000 is pretty good.
I think 32 over the course of 40 years is pretty good too. How about 50, 100? Has to be 1000?
You'd have to ask them that.
Seems like you impose that on Sandusky's victims but not Anderson's. Hmmm
1000 vs 30. Many believable contemporaneous reports vs none.
Only not believed by religious cults. Jury believed all.
I will admit I do not know as much about the Anderson case as I do about Sandusky. But the numbers alone are staggering and point to guilt.
Maybe they too lied to get money? Might be a job for Ziegler. Anyone from Michigan forming conspiracy theory groups like PS4RS?
 
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WHCANole

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On the surface, it certainly appears that way.
It's almost a mirror of each other.
But when you do a deep dive into the facts, it becomes clear that there was no cover up at PSU.
I have done such a dive and I see coverup all over the scandal. But I am not biased.
The courts and the feds both agree.
Neither the Feds nor Courts agree. The Feds fined PSU for not reporting Sandusky per the Clery Act. Further, the jurors believed there was a coverup. No to endanger children but to protect the image of PSU. The courts never said there was no coverup.
Maybe someone will do a deep dive into Michigan to show that there was no coverup. But it doesn't seem that way.
We'll wait for Ziggy if there is some money in it.
 
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bourbon n blues

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Seems like the PSU type culture was in other institutions. Really, this is not unusual in that powerful popular institutions often cover up like PSU to hide wrongdoing. It's important that when they get caught accountability is doled out. In the case of Joe and CSS that happened.
My friend told me evety single time he investigated CSA in some business , church, or corporate structure it was at least initially covered up. It's what they do.
 

WHCANole

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My friend told me evety single time he investigated CSA in some business , church, or corporate structure it was at least initially covered up. It's what they do.
Yes, the PSU scandal is really no different than most popular powerful institutional coverups but what is different, and fascinatingly so, is the fan base that refuses to believe it and like a cult defends the institution and it's leaders as being unjustly punished as well as an even smaller group that believes Sandusky to be innocent.

What I wish to know is what religious like love motivates them. They say truth and justice but there are any number of more legitimate causes they might pursue but this one is fascinating.

Paterno really was one of the most successful cult leaders ever. I met him once and while he was charismatic (like a lot of coaches) I never saw the draw. While talking to him I saw the godlike status he had the PSU staff but I'm sure Nick Saban has that as well.

The best idea I've heard so far came from a thread on here where the disciple told me that the school is so isolated that it breeds an insular attitude that I guess Paterno was able to take advantage of. There should be some more books about this.
 
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bourbon n blues

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Yes, the PSU scandal is really no different than most popular powerful institutional coverups but what is different, and fascinatingly so, is the fan base that refuses to believe it and like a cult defends the institution and it's leaders as being unjustly punished as well as an even smaller group that believes Sandusky to be innocent.

What I wish to know is what religious like love motivates them. They say truth and justice but there are any number of more legitimate causes they might pursue but this one is fascinating.

Paterno really was one of the most successful cult leaders ever. I met him once and while he was charismatic (like a lot of coaches) I never saw the draw. While talking to him I saw the godlike status he had the PSU staff but I'm sure Nick Saban has that as well.

The best idea I've heard so far came from a thread on here where the disciple told me that the school is so isolated that it breeds an insular attitude that I guess Paterno was able to take advantage of. There should be some more books about this.
It is just the same, it's always the same playbook. It's ah immune system response to an outside threat common to all institutions. And each institution thinks they're so special and above it and there are certain folk who buy into it. they're fans, stock holders, parishioners or those who benefit from the charity.
He's been part of a tremendous amount of cases including PSU's and it's always the same. The sad thing is now we have our fan base whining why there isn't more media coverage on all these other cases, like they actually cared about the issue prior to the Sandusky case.
 
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PSU2UNC

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You are incorrect. An accuser told Joe himself in 1971 and Penn State paid him. Ruh Roh!
Incorrect. Try to improve your reading comprehension. That article DOES NOT say that he paid.
Do you have proof that PSU told the accusers that they would get millions before the trial?
Yes, the timing of when they said (in so many words) they were opening their checkbooks.
The ones from the trial too? I'd say well vetted.
The ones from the trial have been thoroughly debunked. And if those are the "best cases' the prosecution had...whoa boy, imagine how weak the other accusers cases were.
What are you saying about Shubin?
Here's proof that he manipulated victims for personal gain:

Do you have any proof of any of that? I think that's against the law.
It is against the law. Please see link above.
I think 32 over the course of 40 years is pretty good too. How about 50, 100? Has to be 1000?
How many of those 32 were contemporaneous? How many occurred before the promise of a payday (I believe the answer is 1)?
Seems like you impose that on Sandusky's victims but not Anderson's. Hmmm

Only not believed by religious cults. Jury believed all.
Juries are mostly morons.
Maybe they too lied to get money? Might be a job for Ziegler. Anyone from Michigan forming conspiracy theory groups like PS4RS?
1000 people including former players lied for money? Seems unlikely.
 

PSU2UNC

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I have done such a dive and I see coverup all over the scandal.
Your deep dive was into the shallow end.
But I am not biased.
To take a page from your book: 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Neither the Feds nor Courts agree.
Wrong. The courts did not convict on any conspiracy charges. The Feds (Snedden) cleared Spanier and determined there was no cover up.
The Feds fined PSU for not reporting Sandusky per the Clery Act.
That's true; they also got dinged for not reporting other crimes. As do MANY, MANY universities every year (the Clery act is well meaning, but poorly written and almost impossible to implement). PSU got dinged for not reporting a crime it didn't know happened and wasn't officially a crime until it was charged in 2011.
Further, the jurors believed there was a coverup. No to endanger children but to protect the image of PSU. The courts never said there was no coverup.
No conspiracy charges = no cover up. Do you need me to explain this to you again?
We'll wait for Ziggy if there is some money in it.
It's hysterical to me that you think he made any money from the Sandusky investigation/reporting.
 

PSU2UNC

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The best idea I've heard so far came from a thread on here where the disciple told me that the school is so isolated that it breeds an insular attitude that I guess Paterno was able to take advantage of. There should be some more books about this.
The school is isolated and that fosters a sense of community. Which is a good thing, not a bad thing. Only someone who has no community or sense of place in the world would view community as a bad thing.
 
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PSU2UNC

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Check this out And they paid him.
Since you never provide links here you go:
Key quote from the attorney of one of the accusers:
"“The headlines of these stories is Paterno knew of Sandusky’s molestation in the ’70s, ‘76 or ’77. I’m unaware of direct, irrefutable evidence that that’s the case,” Boni said. “Believe me, I’m the last person to defend the guy, but I am the first person to believe in our justice system. And I think you need more than anecdotal evidence or speculative evidence.” -- Michael Boni
 

bourbon n blues

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Your friend sounds like a biased moron.
You're the biased moron. How many of these cases have you investigated? What part of the Sandusky case you did you work? What PSP materials have you seen?
The answer is zero , I'll trust someone I know who worked the case and what he told me over a deluded fan boy who should really get a new hobby. They all knew from 1998 at a minimum ( coaching staff and higher ups in the administration at a minimum) and royally screwed the pooch.
But keep chasing ghosts and rumors, you obviously have some obsessive reason to "believe".
 
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PSU2UNC

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You're the biased moron. How many of these cases have you investigated? What part of the Sandusky case you did you work? What PSP materials have you seen?
The answer is zero , I'll trust someone I know who worked the case and what he told me over a deluded fan boy who should really get a new hobby. They all knew from 1998 at a minimum ( coaching staff and higher ups in the administration at a minimum) and royally screwed the pooch.
But keep chasing ghosts and rumors, you obviously have some obsessive reason to "believe".
If you actually have a friend who works for the PSP (doubtful), they are biased. That is part of the problem with this case (and with LE/OAG in general) is that they lock onto "their suspect" and refuse to ever admit they are wrong.
There are no "secret" files that "prove they all knew in 1998." We've seen everything that is out there. And it proves quite the opposite.
 
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WHCANole

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Unfounded allegation.
Yet they paid
The article does not say that they paid him, and I do not believe they did. (or at least we do not know if they paid him, but I believe it has come out that accusers from that long ago were not paid).
From the article: "He did however receive a settlement from Penn State, acknowledging that he was in fact a victim of Sandusky,"
 
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WHCANole

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Incorrect. Try to improve your reading comprehension. That article DOES NOT say that he paid.
I answered that above.
Yes, the timing of when they said (in so many words) they were opening their checkbooks.
Link?
The ones from the trial have been thoroughly debunked. And if those are the "best cases' the prosecution had...whoa boy, imagine how weak the other accusers cases were.
Not debunked by any court of law or anyone other than conspiracy theorists. Going thru a trial and being cross examined is pretty good vetting.
Here's proof that he manipulated victims for personal gain:
Ziegler's podcast is not authoritative but merely his view of his conspiracy theory. Has any complaints been filed against the lawyer Shubin for unethical behavior with the state bar? Has the OAG pressed charges? So, you have no proof as we have discussed before.
It is against the law. Please see link above.
Why hasn't he been charged?
How many of those 32 were contemporaneous?
I've mentioned those. And they were paid.
How many occurred before the promise of a payday (I believe the answer is 1)?
None. The victims were never promised a payday before the trial where they testified. You admitted that earlier.
Juries are mostly morons.
Yeah, that's your opinion and I disagree.
1000 people including former players lied for money? Seems unlikely.
30 plus kids lied for money? Seems unlikely.
 
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WHCANole

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Your deep dive was into the shallow end.
I think you bumped your head when you dove in
To take a page from your book: 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You are a PSU grad and a member of the cult. I am neither, so I think you are the one who is biased.
Wrong. The courts did not convict on any conspiracy charges.
Conspiracy and coverup are not the same.
The Paterno 3 did indeed coverup for Sandusky. A coverup is not a crime, in and of itself. The jury found there was not a conspiracy. A coverup and a conspiracy are two different things.

§ 903. Criminal conspiracy.

(a) Definition of conspiracy.--A person is guilty of conspiracy with another person or persons to commit a crime if with the intent of promoting or facilitating its commission he:

(1) agrees with such other person or persons that they or one or more of them will engage in conduct which constitutes such crime or an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime; or

(2) agrees to aid such other person or persons in the planning or commission of such crime or of an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime."

Coverup, which is not a legal term, is:

"1. an attempt to prevent people's discovering the truth about a serious mistake or crime."

Spanier, not telling the BOT fully about the 2001 incident, covered up the Paterno 3 lack of action regarding Sandusky. It was not a crime to do so.
The Feds (Snedden) cleared Spanier and determined there was no cover up.
Snedden only investigated Spanier's clearance. The Department of Education fined PSU for not reporting Sandusky so if Snedden cleared PSU as you say then there would have been no fine.
That's true; they also got dinged for not reporting other crimes. As do MANY, MANY universities every year (the Clery act is well meaning, but poorly written and almost impossible to implement).
But they were dinged specifically for Sandusky. Whataboutism noted.
PSU got dinged for not reporting a crime it didn't know happened and wasn't officially a crime until it was charged in 2011.
That's not true. Otherwise they would not have been fined.
No conspiracy charges = no cover up. Do you need me to explain this to you again?
Conspiracy and coverup are not the same.
The Paterno 3 did indeed coverup for Sandusky. A coverup is not a crime, in and of itself. The jury found there was not a conspiracy. A coverup and a conspiracy are two different things.

§ 903. Criminal conspiracy.

(a) Definition of conspiracy.--A person is guilty of conspiracy with another person or persons to commit a crime if with the intent of promoting or facilitating its commission he:

(1) agrees with such other person or persons that they or one or more of them will engage in conduct which constitutes such crime or an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime; or

(2) agrees to aid such other person or persons in the planning or commission of such crime or of an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime."

Coverup, which is not a legal term, is:

"1. an attempt to prevent people's discovering the truth about a serious mistake or crime."

Spanier, not telling the BOT fully about the 2001 incident, covered up the Paterno 3 lack of action regarding Sandusky. It was not a crime to do so.
It's hysterical to me that you think he made any money from the Sandusky investigation/reporting.
How do you know he didn't? Have you seen his financial records? Church members are sending him money.
 
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WHCANole

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The school is isolated and that fosters a sense of community. Which is a good thing, not a bad thing. Only someone who has no community or sense of place in the world would view community as a bad thing.
If that "sense of community" causes those in it to cover up crimes then it is a bad thing. Sometimes good things get warped. Like loyalty.
 

WHCANole

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Since you never provide links here you go:
Key quote from the attorney of one of the accusers:
"“The headlines of these stories is Paterno knew of Sandusky’s molestation in the ’70s, ‘76 or ’77. I’m unaware of direct, irrefutable evidence that that’s the case,” Boni said. “Believe me, I’m the last person to defend the guy, but I am the first person to believe in our justice system. And I think you need more than anecdotal evidence or speculative evidence.” -- Michael Boni
Here's one you left out. "
Tom Kline, a lawyer who settled an abuse allegation with Penn State, said he and other lawyers were aware of claims dating back to the ’70s.
Kline said the new disclosure “provides one more link in the chain which has been repeatedly denied by those who refuse to come to terms with the tragic reality here.” I just provided a link earlier.
 
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WHCANole

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If you actually have a friend who works for the PSP (doubtful), they are biased. That is part of the problem with this case (and with LE/OAG in general) is that they lock onto "their suspect" and refuse to ever admit they are wrong.
There are no "secret" files that "prove they all knew in 1998." We've seen everything that is out there. And it proves quite the opposite.
He might have such a friend. Just because you don't like what he knows does not make him a moron. People who disagree with you aren't morons. They are right.
 
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LaJollaLion

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I answered that above.

Link?

Not debunked by any court of law or anyone other than conspiracy theorists. Going thru a trial and being cross examined is pretty good vetting.

Ziegler's podcast is not authoritative but merely his view of his conspiracy theory. Has any complaints been filed against the lawyer Shubin for unethical behavior with the state bar? Has the OAG pressed charges? So, you have no proof as we have discussed before.

Why hasn't he been charged?

I've mentioned those. And they were paid.

None. The victims were never promised a payday before the trial where they testified. You admitted that earlier.

Yeah, that's your opinion and I disagree.

30 plus kids lied for money? Seems unlikely.
There are people on this planet that think the earth is flat. They think JFK Junior didn't die and is coming back to team up with a certain orange man. Here you have people who have been in denial about JS for a decade. They point to JZ like he isn't some nutbag because he says what they want to hear. I can only imagine how many he grifted here for money as he was collecting donations. Con men going to con.
 
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WHCANole

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There are people on this planet that think the earth is flat. They think JFK Junior didn't die and is coming back to team up with a certain orange man. Here you have people who have been in denial about JS for a decade. They point to JZ like he isn't some nutbag because he says what they want to hear. I can only imagine how many he grifted here for money as he was collecting donations. Con men going to con.
What motivates them? This is the question I seek the answer to. CSS were no different or better than the admins at UM, MSU, OSU, The Roman Catholic Church or The Boy Scouts. Where does this delusion come from?
 

bourbon n blues

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What motivates them? This is the question I seek the answer to. CSS were no different or better than the admins at UM, MSU, OSU, The Roman Catholic Church or The Boy Scouts. Where does this delusion come from?
The same delusions as any other group, denial and a self serving attitude protecting their own best interests.
 
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LaJollaLion

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What motivates them? This is the question I seek the answer to. CSS were no different or better than the admins at UM, MSU, OSU, The Roman Catholic Church or The Boy Scouts. Where does this delusion come from?
They were upset Joe was blasted in the process and this was their form defense for him. They hid it under the guise of justice for everyone, but in fact went on to attack the victims in the case and did it for years. How and why Tom let that BS stand was crazy to me. It was pretty f--king disgusting. We had people driving by the victims houses and doxing them. You literally had people from this site visiting Jerry the pedo in prison and taking shots at all of the victims to make themselves feel better. Listen Joe and the admins got caught up in the political PC BS witch hunt, but according to one of the nations leading experts on this abuse, Jerry was in the top 1% of predators. The BOT turned on them as they just wanted it gone so they were fine with them being the fall guys.

Now you see how many more "nice guy" predators are out there and you see how awful it really is. You won't catch me conversing with these folks on this site anymore, it's a lost cause. They have a little social circle around JZ and a few other nuts, but this ship has sailed. It's not returning.
 
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bourbon n blues

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He might have such a friend. Just because you don't like what he knows does not make him a moron. People who disagree with you aren't morons. They are right.
If you actually have a friend who works for the PSP (doubtful), they are biased. That is part of the problem with this case (and with LE/OAG in general) is that they lock onto "their suspect" and refuse to ever admit they are wrong.
There are no "secret" files that "prove they all knew in 1998." We've seen everything that is out there. And it proves quite the opposite.
Listen , it's hard to come to terms that you're wrong when you've devoted so much time to this F Ed up hobby of yours, but you're
100% wrong.
Get a new hobby. Something healthier than this.
 
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WHCANole

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They were upset Joe was blasted in the process and this was their form defense for him. They hid it under the guise of justice for everyone, but in fact went on to attack the victims in the case and did it for years. How and why Tom let that BS stand was crazy to me. It was pretty f--king disgusting. We had people driving by the victims houses and doxing them. You literally had people from this site visiting Jerry the pedo in prison and taking shots at all of the victims to make themselves feel better. Listen Joe and the admins got caught up in the political PC BS witch hunt, but according to one of the nations leading experts on this abuse, Jerry was in the top 1% of predators. The BOT turned on them as they just wanted it gone so they were fine with them being the fall guys.

Now you see how many more "nice guy" predators are out there and you see how awful it really is. You won't catch me conversing with these folks on this site anymore, it's a lost cause. They have a little social circle around JZ and a few other nuts, but this ship has sailed. It's not returning.
It has a religious aroma to it. I know one of the cultists is very staunchly anti-religious so I'm thinking the worship of the institution is a fulfillment of a spiritual need. This is how demagogues get power from folks like this. JZ is their High Priest.