Trautwein and the OL....

[PSU20]

Couldn't help but notice watching the game last night that the Chargers 1st Pick this year was an OG from BC. Zion Johnson - 6-3, 316 lbs. and an absolute horse physically. He was taken as the 17th pick overall and the Chargers were very high on him due to his physicality and his ability to move players off the line. The guy has arms the size of our heads!

A discussion was made on this board about the size matchup with our OL/DL compared to both UM and OSU. This has been ongoing for years and maybe our S&C program needs to adopt what these other teams are doing, including BC since they have been turning out good OL to the NFL for years which started with much lower players that we get. Trautwein was brought here to improve our OL; however, nothing has changed since his arrival.

 

[fkkkjm]

again - common denominator is CJF.

 

[bvillebaron]

again - common denominator is CJF.

Did he play guard or tackle last Saturday?

 

[NittanyChris]

Trautwein got here in 2020. We all know that 2020 was a disaster for many reasons. He has some recruits coming in like Birchmeier and Williams who are both 6’5” and should wind up well over 300 lbs. Also, while the offensive line is not where we want it today, it is almost certainly improved over the last season. I think Trautwein has the O Line moving in the right direction and I think there will be more improvement in the future. I haven’t lost confidence in him.

 

[bvillebaron]

Trautwein got here in 2020. We all know that 2020 was a disaster for many reasons. He has some recruits coming in like Birchmeier and Williams who are both 6’5” and should wind up well over 300 lbs. Also, while the offensive line is not where we want it today, it is almost certainly improved over the last season. I think Trautwein has the O Line moving in the right direction and I think there will be more improvement in the future. I haven’t lost confidence in him.

You may be right. Clearly running predictable running plays is not helping the OL. Last I checked, there is no law that says you can't use the pass to set up the run.

 

[SLion]

Trautwein got here in 2020. We all know that 2020 was a disaster for many reasons. He has some recruits coming in like Birchmeier and Williams who are both 6’5” and should wind up well over 300 lbs. Also, while the offensive line is not where we want it today, it is almost certainly improved over the last season. I think Trautwein has the O Line moving in the right direction and I think there will be more improvement in the future. I haven’t lost confidence in him.

At before that it was Limegrover as problem..and before that Herb Hand...are we seeing a theme yet? It is a philosophy issue with Franklin. We want flexible, pass protectors as downfield splash plays are his thing. Dominating OL via the rushing game..nope.

 

[royboy]

Trautwein got here in 2020. We all know that 2020 was a disaster for many reasons. He has some recruits coming in like Birchmeier and Williams who are both 6’5” and should wind up well over 300 lbs. Also, while the offensive line is not where we want it today, it is almost certainly improved over the last season. I think Trautwein has the O Line moving in the right direction and I think there will be more improvement in the future. I haven’t lost confidence in him.

Losing Tengwall before kickoff certainly didn't help. He's performed well IMO as a 1st-year starter; moves better than #64 who took his place. Some of the pulling plays and double teams we saw vs Auburn were either ineffective or just not tried much vs Michigan.

We need Tengwall vs Minnesota. Any updates?

 

[PSULionsDub]

All of our current Offensive Line players were good recruits, 3 and 4 Star recruits. So if they are not playing well, then the issue is coaching and development, offensive line scheme, or strength and conditioning. I do have a strong suspicion that Franklin provides guidance and a 'stay in this box' mentality to his assistant coaches in terms of the scheme and play calling. This is why Mike Yurcich's offensive play calling at Penn State looks totally different than his offensive play calling at Oklahoma State. This is also why Franklin and Kirk Ciarrocca separated after one season because Ciarrocca never got on board with Franklin's oversight of his offense.

 

[diontechristmas]

I was curious. Johnson started his career at Davidson, non-scholly FCS, and was a no star recruit. Transferred to BC and don’t think he ever played for Coach T. Unusual story, but ya our line stinks.

 

[The Spin Meister]

I was curious. Johnson started his career at Davidson, non-scholly FCS, and was a no star recruit. Transferred to BC and don’t think he ever played for Coach T. Unusual story, but ya our line stinks.

Impressive.

 

[The Spin Meister]

All of our current Offensive Line players were good recruits, 3 and 4 Star recruits. So if they are not playing well, then the issue is coaching and development, offensive line scheme, or strength and conditioning. I do have a strong suspicion that Franklin provides guidance and a 'stay in this box' mentality to his assistant coaches in terms of the scheme and play calling. This is why Mike Yurcich's offensive play calling at Penn State looks totally different than his offensive play calling at Oklahoma State. This is also why Franklin and Kirk Ciarrocca separated after one season because Ciarrocca never got on board with Franklin's oversight of his offense.

Well, our O is totally different this year. No RPOs and a back lining up eight yards deep. So that also means the line blocking is complete different. It has improved and hopefully will continue to do so.

And the play calling was pretty vanilla. Don’t know why. Always wondered about how much freedom the OCs have and if that is one reason for Coach C to leave after one season. Have a feeling there was a lot of friction over the schemes. Franklin stayed with the RPO too long when it did fit the skill set of his player.

Top two backs are true freshmen...does that limit the playbook? Is Yurcich concerned that he does yet have the players to work his full offense? Is he restricted by Franklin? Or are the guys just not good enough? None of us know the answers.

 

[PSU20]

I was curious. Johnson started his career at Davidson, non-scholly FCS, and was a no star recruit. Transferred to BC and don’t think he ever played for Coach T. Unusual story, but ya our line stinks.

I think your are correct as I tried to find Johnson in the recruit search with no luck. Anyway, BC has been turning out really good OL to the NFL for years, and most of them were not highly rated coming out of high school. Johnson is a beast; what is their secret?

 

[PSU20]

One more note: We barely threw to our TE's during the game since they have had to stay on the LOS to help block. This was not the case with UM. Rivals has been touting our TE's as some of the best in the country, but all three of them have been assigned to the OL. Not good for a talent like Johnson who has a couple years left at PSU, I hope.

 

[SLion]

I think your are correct as I tried to find Johnson in the recruit search with no luck. Anyway, BC has been turning out really good OL to the NFL for years, and most of them were not highly rated coming out of high school. Johnson is a beast; what is their secret?

Not sure it is a secret per se. BC as a whole has been god awful for a dozen years as can't compete since joining ACC. They have built their program on strong run game and strong OL with less focus on passing attack and defense. It is same as Wisconsin but Badgers had some strong Ds to compete in BT West (but failed against more talented East). It is philosophical for Franklin. Trautwein is being tasked with creating OL that focuses on complex pass blocking schemes. Franklin thinks we don't need to outmuscle when we can outscheme. It won't work over time.

 

[The Spin Meister]

I think your are correct as I tried to find Johnson in the recruit search with no luck. Anyway, BC has been turning out really good OL to the NFL for years, and most of them were not highly rated coming out of high school. Johnson is a beast; what is their secret?

Must be all the smoothies, SuperBeets, free range chickens, and organic eating.

 

[Texas Lion]

The OL is perfectly fine. The best line in the NFL couldn't block with our "mesh point" rides and slow developing run plays.

 

[bvillebaron]

The OL is perfectly fine. The best line in the NFL couldn't block with our "mesh point" rides and slow developing run plays.

Nonsense.

 

[jbenedict]

At before that it was Limegrover as problem..and before that Herb Hand...are we seeing a theme yet? It is a philosophy issue with Franklin. We want flexible, pass protectors as downfield splash plays are his thing. Dominating OL via the rushing game..nope.

He is all about the splash play/chunk play. Yes he is the constant.

 

[royboy]

One more note: We barely threw to our TE's during the game since they have had to stay on the LOS to help block. This was not the case with UM. Rivals has been touting our TE's as some of the best in the country, but all three of them have been assigned to the OL. Not good for a talent like Johnson who has a couple years left at PSU, I hope.

Did 84 even play vs Michigan?

 

[lazydave841]

Yurcich has very little history of using the TEs on a regular, consistent basis. We've had games where they were used prominently and then stretches where they see 1 target.

My confusion goes back to this: we have 2 potential TE commits in our class right now (the one is likely destined for DL but we'll see). Both a receiver types, not big thick blocking types.

Why? Where is the disconnect?

 

[Parkerdam555]

Losing Tengwall before kickoff certainly didn't help. He's performed well IMO as a 1st-year starter; moves better than #64 who took his place. Some of the pulling plays and double teams we saw vs Auburn were either ineffective or just not tried much vs Michigan.

We need Tengwall vs Minnesota. Any updates?

What the hell kind of program loses kids in pre game warm ups? Like I said, they need to take a SERIOUS LOOK at the strength and conditioning staff.

 

[Thomas1945]

The OL is perfectly fine. The best line in the NFL couldn't block with our "mesh point" rides and slow developing run plays.

That bothers me to. But then again can someone explain why Wake Forest is successful running their crazy offense. After the ball is snapped the QB and the RB just stand next to each other with the ball for what seems minutes until one of them actually takes the ball. Just weird, but it’s effective.

 

[ryoder1]

That bothers me to. But then again can someone explain why Wake Forest is successful running their crazy offense. After the ball is snapped the QB and the RB just stand next to each other with the ball for what seems minutes until one of them actually takes the ball. Just weird, but it’s effective.

Put Wake Forest in the Big10 then come back and judge if they are successful.

 

[Thomas1945]

Put Wake Forest in the Big10 then come back and judge if they are successful.

Thanks a lot. You know I just wanted a reasonable reply about the scheme and how it operates. Not a wise ass remark about the wonders of the all powerful, unable to win Natties, corrupt officiating, fu$k everyone except OSU and UM Big10.

 

[The Spin Meister]

The OL is perfectly fine. The best line in the NFL couldn't block with our "mesh point" rides and slow developing run plays.

Have you watched any games this year?

 

[lazydave841]

That bothers me to. But then again can someone explain why Wake Forest is successful running their crazy offense. After the ball is snapped the QB and the RB just stand next to each other with the ball for what seems minutes until one of them actually takes the ball. Just weird, but it’s effective.

One thought about it is that on these slow mesh plays, the QB knows he's giving the ball to the RB. DEs don't tend to crash it very hard because if he does, the QB will pull it and hit a slant, or bubble. (Compare to us, our zone reads got hurt majorly by DEs crashing our mesh vs QB or RB) Back to the QB, he also adds an extra blocker on these slow mesh runs (he uses his back or butt) which doesn't allow the crashing defender to make the tackle from behind. It also allows the OL to duo block and get to the 2nd level block before the back takes off.



This video is a little deeper into it from WF side. It's RPO. Here they get into the passing off the slow mesh. QB essentially gets to look at 2, sometimes 3 defenders before making a throw. Additionally, slow mesh allows for deeper passing vs the usual hitches, slants, bubbles, and outs. Putting safeties in conflict post snap vs making the read pre snap and hoping you aren't being deceived.

 

[Thomas1945]

View embedded media

One thought about it is that on these slow mesh plays, the QB knows he's giving the ball to the RB. DEs don't tend to crash it very hard because if he does, the QB will pull it and hit a slant, or bubble. (Compare to us, our zone reads got hurt majorly by DEs crashing our mesh vs QB or RB) Back to the QB, he also adds an extra blocker on these slow mesh runs (he uses his back or butt) which doesn't allow the crashing defender to make the tackle from behind. It also allows the OL to duo block and get to the 2nd level block before the back takes off.

View embedded media

This video is a little deeper into it from WF side. It's RPO. Here they get into the passing off the slow mesh. QB essentially gets to look at 2, sometimes 3 defenders before making a throw. Additionally, slow mesh allows for deeper passing vs the usual hitches, slants, bubbles, and outs. Putting safeties in conflict post snap vs making the read pre snap and hoping you aren't being deceived.

Thank you, your explanation and the videos made sense. I saw it for the first time in their Bowl game last year against Rutgers. Then this year against Clemson and Fl. State (neither of which are chopped liver) and it intrigued me.

 

[RickinDayton]

Thanks a lot. You know I just wanted a reasonable reply about the scheme and how it operates. Not a wise ass remark about the wonders of the all powerful, unable to win Natties, corrupt officiating, fu$k everyone except OSU and UM Big10.

Well, they scored alot against Clemson who has a very stout front 7 (comparable to Michigan), so they must be doing something right/different with their scheme that allows them to be effetive. IMHO, PSU seems to have a scheme problem. I don't understand the nuances, but I can see teams with less talent adapting their schemes to their talent/strengths. PSU seems to be missing the boat on putting people in a position to excel. They are frustrating to watch when playing B1G teams.

 

[royboy]

Wake also has stability and consistency in their offensive approach.

Both the head coach Dave Clawson and O-Coordinator Warren Ruggiero have been there 9 years.

Warren Ruggiero - Football Coach - Wake Forest University Athletics

Warren Ruggiero, who has coordinated the most prolific offenses in Wake Forest history over the past six seasons and was a Broyles Award finalist in 2021, ...

godeacs.com

Warren Ruggiero, who has coordinated the most prolific offenses in Wake Forest history over the past five seasons and was a Broyles Award finalist in 2021, is set to enter his ninth season as Wake Forest’s offensive coordinator and quarterback coach in 2022.

Ruggiero, head coach Dave Clawson and their offensive staff have engineered an offense that has rewritten the record books at Wake Forest. The Deacons have set over 350 school records including marks for points scored, points per game, total offensive yards, first downs and passing yards over the past five seasons. Also, the Deacs are the only football program in the ACC to average at least 30 points per game each year since 2017.

 

[PSUcup1]

One thing to keep in my mind regarding Trautweins success has an OL coach at BC is that the head coach was Steve Addazzio.

who while me may not be a good head guy, he’s a very very good OL coach. I’m sure he had as much impact on the line there as Traut did …

 

[SLion]

Wake also has stability and consistency in their offensive approach.

Both the head coach Dave Clawson and O-Coordinator Warren Ruggiero have been there 9 years.

Clawson would be high on my list if we ever moved on from CJF. I don't know what more a coach can do. He has won at many places. He has absolutely killer offense each year with little talent. He has very good mixture of rush and pass. The OL does a great job in both regards. He needs to score alot because defense does not have enough secondary talent to hold faster/more skilled teams like Clemson. DL is still solid. The part I really like about Wake is that they understand how a lead alters the complexion of a game. They can ball control, get first downs and finish drives. Defense can play more aggressive in coverage. I look at first drive by PSU when Singleton tries to get outside and swarmed on 3 and 1. It was vanilla BS that got blown up easily. Everyone knew it was coming. If SC fakes handoff then Strange has block on only defender on other side of field. He releases from block and SC can hit for 50-60 yard gain, maybe TD.

Not sure he wants to leave WF. He exceeds expectations. He can make it work and thought of as successful, no matter what.

 

[lazydave841]

What those guys are running at Wake Forest has been a work in progress for nearly 30 years. As was mentioned, they've been at Wake for 9 years together now. When they got there, they said nobody they inherited at Wake would have started at Bowling Green (where they left to coach at Wake).

Wake might never produce a national title for them, but they aren't going to be run off in 2 years for only winning 6 games either.

This offense is very similar to what Moorhead ran here with us. The key is modifying the scheme to the talent on hand. 3 WR seems to be the most dangerous passing version, but you play with the best players you have and make due.

 

[diontechristmas]

Clawson would be high on my list if we ever moved on from CJF. I don't know what more a coach can do. He has won at many places. He has absolutely killer offense each year with little talent. He has very good mixture of rush and pass. The OL does a great job in both regards. He needs to score alot because defense does not have enough secondary talent to hold faster/more skilled teams like Clemson. DL is still solid. The part I really like about Wake is that they understand how a lead alters the complexion of a game. They can ball control, get first downs and finish drives. Defense can play more aggressive in coverage. I look at first drive by PSU when Singleton tries to get outside and swarmed on 3 and 1. It was vanilla BS that got blown up easily. Everyone knew it was coming. If SC fakes handoff then Strange has block on only defender on other side of field. He releases from block and SC can hit for 50-60 yard gain, maybe TD.

Not sure he wants to leave WF. He exceeds expectations. He can make it work and thought of as successful, no matter what.

Smart man. Clawson would be my first choice as well, and I was laughed at on here for suggesting.

The guy is smart and detailed and his teams reflect that.

 

[Ian]

Trautwein got here in 2020. We all know that 2020 was a disaster for many reasons. He has some recruits coming in like Birchmeier and Williams who are both 6’5” and should wind up well over 300 lbs. Also, while the offensive line is not where we want it today, it is almost certainly improved over the last season. I think Trautwein has the O Line moving in the right direction and I think there will be more improvement in the future. I haven’t lost confidence in him.

Has it really improved? Or is it just because they have a better rb running the ball? Scruggs and Wallace have been at it for three yrs and appear avg at best. Oli is a good one but he’ll be gone after a yr. Jury is still out on Wormley and Tengwall. Ivy transfers haven’t helped. Still am not impressed with offensive system and haven’t been for awhile. It’s slow and much too predictable.

 

[NittanyChris]

Has it really improved? Or is it just because they have a better rb running the ball? Scruggs and Wallace have been at it for three yrs and appear avg at best. Oli is a good one but he’ll be gone after a yr. Jury is still out on Wormley and Tengwall. Ivy transfers haven’t helped. Still am not impressed with offensive system and haven’t been for awhile. It’s slow and much too predictable.

I think it’s a bit of both. Singleton and Allen have definitely been upgrades. Fashanu has been absolutely fantastic. Tengwall is improving and showing he can fulfill his potential in his first year starting. I even think Wormley has been solid. With some young studs on the horizon in Shelton, Birchmeier and Williams, the future is looking bright!

 

[royboy]

I think it’s a bit of both. Singleton and Allen have definitely been upgrades. Fashanu has been absolutely fantastic. Tengwall is improving and showing he can fulfill his potential in his first year starting. I even think Wormley has been solid. With some young studs on the horizon in Shelton, Birchmeier and Williams, the future is looking bright!

Some good trends and good young players/recruits, but no quick fix I'm afraid.

 

[scrivener]

I think it’s a bit of both. Singleton and Allen have definitely been upgrades. Fashanu has been absolutely fantastic. Tengwall is improving and showing he can fulfill his potential in his first year starting. I even think Wormley has been solid. With some young studs on the horizon in Shelton, Birchmeier and Williams, the future is looking bright!

Fantastic is a little strong, but Olu has certainly been the best on the line..no doubt. Audrey had a piece in The Athletic after the Michigan game with not so favorable numbers for the run game: Penn State running backs averaged just 1.0 yards before contact, according to TruMedia — the fourth time in six games that number has been 1.1 or lower." So, let's not make it like the OL has taken HUGE strides...they are still a work in progress, and for the most part, wildly inconsistent. Are they better then last year? Sure...of course. But, that doesn't take much. There isn't a single guy that pulverizes their man in front of them, nor anyone that you can truly run behind. As Ian said, the offensive system is slow at the mesh point and doesn't seem to benefit the offense much. However, the OL isn't reliable enough yet to get the job done when they need to in order to keep a drive going, or to get a few first downs so as not to have the defense back on the field. Once again...Effner nearly got the same amount of snaps as Caedan who had a very rough first half, per the article...and came back in the 4th quarter. There are still way too many ?'s up front for anyone to be truly confident.

 

[PSU20]

This OL is still very weak when it comes to run blocking. UM's OL was not any bigger than ours, yet they looked so much bigger and more physical. We had a TE blocking both DE's, Morris and Upshaw trying to run the edge with Singleton. Our TE's got stuffed and tackled Singleton for a 1 yard loss. Pathetic when your OL can't even block the DE's which makes you keep you talented receiver TE's at the LOS.

UM center, Oluwatimi is 6-3, 307; Scuggs is 6-3, 310, yet Oluwatimi looks 30 lbs. heavier and plays like it. He was all over sealing the edge on running plays and knocking our LB's around like pin ball. Something needs to be done to make our OL more physical since the run blocking is pathetic!

 

[scrivener]

This OL is still very weak when it comes to run blocking. UM's OL was not any bigger than ours, yet they looked so much bigger and more physical. We had a TE blocking both DE's, Morris and Upshaw trying to run the edge with Singleton. Our TE's got stuffed and tackled Singleton for a 1 yard loss. Pathetic when your OL can't even block the DE's which makes you keep you talented receiver TE's at the LOS.

UM center, Oluwatimi is 6-3, 307; Scuggs is 6-3, 310, yet Oluwatimi looks 30 lbs. heavier and plays like it. He was all over sealing the edge on running plays and knocking our LB's around like pin ball. Something needs to be done to make our OL more physical since the run blocking is pathetic!

Physically, we just don't look the part at certain positions compared to our peers. I don't know if it's the strength program or the vision that the staff has for it. But, we just don't look imposing....and for sure don't play like it.

 

[Parkerdam555]

Physically, we just don't look the part at certain positions compared to our peers. I don't know if it's the strength program or the vision that the staff has for it. But, we just don't look imposing....and for sure don't play like it.

Linebackers are small. Despite pj, most dt positions are small, de positions are small.