Toyota once the darling of the green crowd is now being demonized.

meanmiJ01

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Jan 2, 2003
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Own two and the next one will be one as well. One 2020 hybrid Camry the other a 2016 Tacoma. Will continue to get my 45 mpg and full up in 5 minutes. Wife needs a vehicle but waiting on prices to stabilize.

Hybrid is the best way forward for the next 20years if these stupid lefties wouldn’t keep subsidizing ev.
 

m.knox

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Own two and the next one will be one as well. One 2020 hybrid Camry the other a 2016 Tacoma. Will continue to get my 45 mpg and full up in 5 minutes. Wife needs a vehicle but waiting on prices to stabilize.

Hybrid is the best way forward for the next 20years if these stupid lefties wouldn’t keep subsidizing ev.

It's all self congratulations.... They are SAVING PLANET EARTH!!!
 

pawrestlersintn

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So, I'm due for a new company car. Currently in a Nissan Pathfinder, with 90K, putting 40Kish on per year. If I want to order immediately, my choices are Camry hybrid or RAV4 hybrid. They're trying to add the Highlander Hybrid, but won't know for a month. Fleet manager says trucks are impossible to come by.

There's no way I'm moving from Pathfinder to Camry. So, my choice now is to wait on a decision on the Highlander, or order the RAV4 now, and wait 6 months.
 

1Hammers1

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I can't believe how many people I talk to that are in a rush to get a new gas powered car. They act like 23 will be the last year to get a car that runs on gas.
 
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jjw165

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Jan 18, 2005
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Own two and the next one will be one as well. One 2020 hybrid Camry the other a 2016 Tacoma. Will continue to get my 45 mpg and full up in 5 minutes. Wife needs a vehicle but waiting on prices to stabilize.

Hybrid is the best way forward for the next 20years if these stupid lefties wouldn’t keep subsidizing ev.
My cousin has a Toyota Tacoma with 268,000 miles on it. It’s a beast.
 

rll1957

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Everyone cheering all this today will eventually face the same it never stops. It can’t hey good f ing luck they’ll kill me off and eventually you too
 
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LionDeNittany

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I'm a fan of hybrids but most companies are going full electric

I think people in this thread are missing that Toyota views the US market as mature and their growth is in Asia and the middle east.

Electric cars are OK for the mature markets. But not so much for growth markets.
 
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rll1957

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I think people in this thread are missing that Toyota views the US market as mature and their growth is in Asia and the middle east.

Electric cars are OK for the mature markets. But not so much for growth markets.
No this is insanity. We still have to use fossil fuels to make the electricity and that system is maxed out. Here’s what you do wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one get full first.
 
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junior1

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May 29, 2001
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Toyota will clean up. I bought 2 brand new Toyotas in the 80's. May have to buy another.. have been looking for a new van.. GM and Ford are going to be sold off for penny's on the dollar if they continue with the EV push.
EVs still don't make economic sense for a lot of americans..............and to a lot of people, it's unclear if EVs are best for the environment
 
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bdgan

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EVs still don't make economic sense for a lot of americans..............and to a lot of people, it's unclear if EVs are best for the environment
I think EVs are definitely better than gas powered cars for the environment. I'm not sure if they're better than hybrids.

The problems with EVs are:
  • Current grid is not prepared to handle capacity.
  • EVs are more expensive to manufacture and require government subsidies.
  • The U.S. becomes more dependent on foreign countries.
 
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The Spin Meister

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An altered state
I think EVs are definitely better than gas powered cars for the environment. I'm not sure if they're better than hybrids.

The problems with EVs are:
  • Current grid is not prepared to handle capacity.
  • EVs are more expensive to manufacture and require government subsidies.
  • The U.S. becomes more dependent on foreign countries.
Add carbon footprint of mining and processing minerals. And difficult recycling/disposal of old batteries
 
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Obliviax

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Toyota refuses to go all in on EVs and is continuing with a good lineup of gasoline and hybrid vehicles. The Green idiots are upset.

Posted her before but worth a second look. https://www.prageru.com/video/whats-wrong-with-wind-and-solar
For the time being, the hybrid path is pretty cool. As I've said, I purchased a Jeep 4xe and am getting north of 40MPG in normal driving for a 3600 lb car. However, I can take it on long trips without having to worry about recharging and am getting ~26 mpg on the highway. While it introduced a lot more to fail (two propulsion systems) it also is the best of both worlds. I won't be held hostage by a CA "rolling blackout" situation and can take long trips without having to search for, and hope it works, super charger system.
 

JR4PSU

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Sep 27, 2002
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SE PA
Last edited:

bdgan

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Add carbon footprint of mining and processing minerals. And difficult recycling/disposal of old batteries
Agreed, but I believe the negative environmental impact of that is less than the environmental impact of drilling, shipping, and refining oil.

But here's the thing. I've read if we are all EV by 2035 it will have cooled the climate by 1/10th of 1 degree after 50 years. The cost is higher prices for cars, higher government subsidies (debt), fewer American jobs, and greater dependence on countries like China and Afghanistan.
 
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Obliviax

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Agreed, but I believe the negative environmental impact of that is less than the environmental impact of drilling, shipping, and refining oil.

But here's the thing. I've read if we are all EV by 2035 it will have cooled the climate by 1/10th of 1 degree after 50 years. The cost is higher prices for cars, higher government subsidies (debt), fewer American jobs, and greater dependence on countries like China and Afghanistan.
Toyota is funding Fuel Cell research. So is BMW. This may well be a better alternative, from both a business and environmental standpoint. People much smarter than I have said that Fuel Cells are a much better path than EVs (but the politicos have decided EVs are the way to go).

 

m.knox

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You have to drive the average EV 80,000 miles before even breaking even with the total carbon footprint of an average combustion engine car. The EV costs FAR more in carbon footprint to manufacture compared to a combustion engine car. It is almost twice as much.

So they aren't saving shit.

https://insideevs.com/news/549267/manufacturing-evs-70percent-more-emissions/

Thanks for sharing that article. I had been wondering about that.

The left is sooooooo emotional. They do not think rationally or scientifically. As long as humans exist, they will consume. Period. The only solution is to eat the babies.

 

junior1

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May 29, 2001
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I think EVs are definitely better than gas powered cars for the environment. I'm not sure if they're better than hybrids.

The problems with EVs are:
  • Current grid is not prepared to handle capacity.
  • EVs are more expensive to manufacture and require government subsidies.
  • The U.S. becomes more dependent on foreign countries.
I was referring to the entire process of getting from raw materials to finished product.
I was listening to a scientific "expert" the other night that went theough the entire process of locating raw materials, mining them, processing them, transporting, manufacturing into batteries, more transporting, incorporating into automobile, electricity generation for charging, emissions from battery use and decay, destruction/storage of batteries and finally auto use.
As he went through the process he had "facts" and figures on emissions and other environmental impacts and a "rational" person could come away from his presentation thinking that focusing only on emissions from the finished product is only a small part of what should be considered about EVs.
It's a shame that we're so polarized that there isn't a factual discussion of all of the variables that go into the EV world so that rational decisions could be made. But, it seems as if you're a democrat no matter what "facts" are presented they're wrong - EV are great - and to a lesser extent republicans are on the opposite side.
 

BUFFALO LION

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Thanks for sharing that article. I had been wondering about that.

The left is sooooooo emotional. They do not think rationally or scientifically. As long as humans exist, they will consume. Period. The only solution is to eat the babies.


This is what happens when you get brainwashed by the Democrat Party. I think this proves that Paoli’s Green Religion is SOOOOOOOO much better than Christianity. He and his Party drive people to not only kill babies in the womb, but eat them after they come out.

I actually feel bad for that girl. AOC and people like Paoli have indoctrinated young people to really believe this crap.
 

bourbon n blues

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I think EVs are definitely better than gas powered cars for the environment. I'm not sure if they're better than hybrids.

The problems with EVs are:
  • Current grid is not prepared to handle capacity.
  • EVs are more expensive to manufacture and require government subsidies.
  • The U.S. becomes more dependent on foreign countries.
Spin meister pointed a few things out. We often see things from the end of the line, such as what our vehicles are doing now, not the start to finish including disposal.
 

BUFFALO LION

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Oct 4, 2001
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Toyota refuses to go all in on EVs and is continuing with a good lineup of gasoline and hybrid vehicles. The Green idiots are upset.

Posted her before but worth a second look. https://www.prageru.com/video/whats-wrong-with-wind-and-solar

Yep. Was actually able to go to a Toyota Dealership and pick a brand new car right off the lot!! Just like when Trump was President.

The GM, Chrysler, and Ford Dealerships were literally all ghost towns. All were running on skeleton staffs, and all told me this so called “component shortage” is just pure bull sh!t the Government is spewing to force people into having to buy EVs that no one wants.
 
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bdgan

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Spin meister pointed a few things out. We often see things from the end of the line, such as what our vehicles are doing now, not the start to finish including disposal.
I understand that and I agree completely. The thing is you have to compare that to the impact of drilling, shipping millions of barrels across the sea every day, trucking or rail to refineries, refining, trucking to gas stations, and people driving to get a fill up. EVs are not totally clean but everything I've read leads me to believe that they are cleaner than ICEs. But maybe only 50% cleaner and maybe no cleaner than hybrids.

I think EVs will do a fair bit to reduce exhaust fumes/smog in big cities. I doubt they will make a significant impact on global climate change and forcing the conversion will come at a large cost.
 
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bourbon n blues

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I understand that and I agree completely. The thing is you have to compare that to the impact of drilling, shipping millions of barrels across the sea every day, trucking or rail to refineries, refining, trucking to gas stations, and people driving to get a fill up. EVs are not totally clean but everything I've read leads me to believe that they are cleaner than ICEs. But maybe only 50% cleaner and maybe no cleaner than hybrids.

I think EVs will do a fair bit to reduce exhaust fumes/smog in big cities. I doubt they will make a significant impact on global climate change and forcing the conversion will come at a large cost.
Cost matters .
 
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