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Tommy Stevens following Wazzu coaches on Twitter?

How can Franklin guarantee the starting job to Stevens? Even if Stevens is currently ahead of the other quarterbacks, no one knows what the competition will look like in 2019. It would be unfair to Stevens and the other quarterbacks to make a guarantee like that. I also don’t think that’s how Franklin handles things. My sense of Franklin is he expects every player to give it his all each day, every day on and off the field and then a player earns the starting role or doesn’t when the time comes. Nothing is guaranteed.

Hypothetically, in 2019, if Clifford (who is likely the next man up) is performing in practice the same way that McSorley plays in practice right now (which means he is performing as good as a Heisman Trophy candidate) and Stevens continues to play the same way he does right now in practice, IMO Stevens wins the job because of experience even without the guarantee. He will be one of the leaders of the 2019 team if he stays.

The likelihood that Clifford improves that significantly by 2019 is much less likely than Stevens playing the same way he is right now. That is why I believe it is a safe guarantee and a guarantee that rewards hard work and loyalty.
 
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Looking at the Hack situation from where I'm sitting, CJF seems to have demonstrated loyalty to those who've walked the walk and sacrificed for the program and team. I think this whole thread has way too many folks doing way too many mental gymnastics in re: Tommy. Chose to reply to yours because your first sentence described many earlier posts.

With this, I hereby boycott this Tommy Wazzu thread beginning now. I wish him all the best and hope he stays.

JMO but I don't think the Hack and Trace analogy is a good one.
I think Franklin would have benched Hack in favor of Trace more than a couple times.
But there were already divisions forming in the locker room and that might have imploded the whole thing so Franklin just rode it out with Hack. Anyway that was my perception from the cheap seats.
 
Questions for you guys on transfers in this situation?
If Tommy graduates and transfers, like Russel Wilson, he is immediately eligible this season 2108 correct, and is that playing time limited for only one playing season?
If it is only for one season, he's going to definitely start 2019, and get plenty of playing time this year, what am i missing?
Would appreciate your input on this.
 
Questions for you guys on transfers in this situation?
If Tommy graduates and transfers, like Russel Wilson, he is immediately eligible this season 2108 correct, and is that playing time limited for only one playing season?
If it is only for one season, he's going to definitely start 2019, and get plenty of playing time this year, what am i missing?
Would appreciate your input on this.

He still has 2 seasons of eligibility.
 
JMO but I don't think the Hack and Trace analogy is a good one.
I think Franklin would have benched Hack in favor of Trace more than a couple times.
But there were already divisions forming in the locker room and that might have imploded the whole thing so Franklin just rode it out with Hack. Anyway that was my perception from the cheap seats.
BBrown, don’t mess with a man’s boycott. I was out and you pulled me back in. ;-). Just kidding, sort of.

But you may be right—or at least more right than I was. Hard to know without being a player or coach in the locker room. Was definitely a complicated situation.

Ok. Out again. But I suppose I’m a sucker for thoughtful replies. So we’ll see.
 
Hypothetically, in 2019, if Clifford (who is likely the next man up) is performing in practice the same way that McSorley plays in practice right now (which means he is performing as good as a Heisman Trophy candidate) and Stevens continues to play the same way he does right now in practice, IMO Stevens wins the job because of experience even without the guarantee. He will be one of the leaders of the 2019 team if he stays.

The likelihood that Clifford improves that significantly by 2019 is much less likely than Stevens playing the same way he is right now. That is why I believe it is a safe guarantee and a guarantee that rewards hard work and loyalty.

Then we disagree on who will be the starter if those are the circumstances. I have no idea why you keep only saying Clifford. 5th year QBs starting for the first time is a very rare event in college football....very rare. And a change would be made instantly if he struggles at all. The leash would be extremely short. Tommy's has to do what he thinks is best but believing he's a lock to start in 2019 simply isn't true. This isn't the 80s and we don't have Joe starting the seniors any more out of loyalty
 
BBrown, don’t mess with a man’s boycott. I was out and you pulled me back in. ;-). Just kidding, sort of.

But you may be right—or at least more right than I was. Hard to know without being a player or coach in the locker room. Was definitely a complicated situation.

Ok. Out again. But I suppose I’m a sucker for thoughtful replies. So we’ll see.

LOL. Yea "complicated" x100.
 
I don't get the hand wringing over Tommy Stevens. So far he's proven useful as a neat little gadget to use on offense, but his passing ability over the course of an entire game (and season) is a major question mark. Yea it's a small sample, but he was 14 for 27 (52%) against backup defenses this year. I was not blown away by his throwing accuracy in these mop-up roles. Never once did he "wow" me with his arm.

Maybe he'll be good, maybe he won't. The odds of him being at McSorley's level are incredibly small, there just aren't a lot of guys out there that can run an offense, throw accurately, and make the decisions the way Trace does. He's 4 inches away from being a 1st round draft pick. There's a reason McSorley won (and kept) the job in the first place. He's better. How much better? Only the staff really knows.

It's not even a cinch that Stevens could beat out Sean Clifford (or Jake Zembiac or Jalen Hurts) in an open competition in 2019.
 
I don't get the hand wringing over Tommy Stevens. So far he's proven useful as a neat little gadget to use on offense, but his passing ability over the course of an entire game (and season) is a major question mark. Yea it's a small sample, but he was 14 for 27 (52%) against backup defenses this year. I was not blown away by his throwing accuracy in these mop-up roles.

Maybe he'll be good, maybe he won't. The odds of him being at McSorley's level are incredibly small, there just aren't a lot of guys out there that can run an offense, throw accurately, and make the decisions the way Trace does. He's 4 inches away from being a 1st round draft pick.

It's not even a cinch that Stevens could beat out Sean Clifford (or Jalen Hurts) in an open competition in 2019.

I think thats a fair analysis...probably because I kind of think the same thing. ;)
 
Then we disagree on who will be the starter if those are the circumstances. I have no idea why you keep only saying Clifford. 5th year QBs starting for the first time is a very rare event in college football....very rare. And a change would be made instantly if he struggles at all. The leash would be extremely short. Tommy's has to do what he thinks is best but believing he's a lock to start in 2019 simply isn't true. This isn't the 80s and we don't have Joe starting the seniors any more out of loyalty

The only reason Stevens was not a starting QB before his Sr. Season is because we have a very talented QB ahead of him. The list of QBs in this country that would have started in front of McSorley in PSU's offense last year is a very short list. To place Stevens in the same boat as every other 5th year QB who has never started is a faulty comparison. Stevens is a talent that is worthy of a guarantee to start in 2019.

You can substitute any of the backups for Clifford and the argument remains the same. It is extremely unlikely that they are going to be playing a level sufficient to beat out a 5th year Stevens as the starting QB in 2019. It is hard for me to even think of anyone on the team who is more likely than Stevens to be one of the captains heading into 2019.
 
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Stevens is a talent that is worthy of a guarantee to start in 2019.

You simply have NO idea if this is true or not. There's very little evidence out that that supports this opinion. Being able to run a successful gadget play twice a game and looking okay, not great in mop-up duty tells us absolutely nothing.
 
The only reason Stevens will not a starting QB before his Sr. Season is because we have a very talented QB ahead of him. The list of QBs in this country that would have started in front of McSorley in PSU's offense last year is a very short list. To place Stevens in the same boat as every other 5th year QB who has never started is a faulty comparison. Stevens is a talent that is worthy of a guarantee to start in 2019.

You can substitute any of the backups for Clifford and the argument remains the same. It is extremely unlikely that they are going to be playing a level sufficient to beat out a 5th year Stevens as the starting QB in 2019. It is hard for me to even think of anyone on the team who is more likely than Stevens to be one of the captains heading into 2019.

A 5th year senior QB is a 5th year senior QB any where. Let's stop pretending Stevens has proven he's elite or even starting-caliber. I'm excited about his potential but we've yet to see what he's capable of doing.

Any of the other QBs can surpass him within the next 18 months. Any of them. I have no idea what being a captain for 2019 means or why that would even be discussed right now. You don't start someone simply because they're a veteran or respected. You start the best player. Again, Joe is gone--this isn't 1980.
 
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I still believe most coaches give veterans who have been "good soldiers" to the program the "inside lane." I think that is understood and expected in the locker room. That is a big difference from appointing someone a starter without merit.
 
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I still believe most coaches give veterans who have been "good soldiers" to the program the "inside lane." I think that is understood and expected in the locker room. That is a big difference from appointing someone a starter without merit.

I disagree when the overwhelming favorite to start and likely leader of the offense is considering transferring.

While people may disagree and I may be way off base because I am a mere fan and not a coach, everything that I have heard and seen gives me reason to believe that the coaching staff has a high level of confidence in Stevens' ability and that the separation between Stevens and McSorley is not that great. Further, I have not heard anything to make me believe that the coaches believe the other QBs on the roster are close to the level of Stevens at this time.

Franklin has seen enough of Stevens to know whether he is good enough to be a starter in 2019. If he has confidence that Stevens is good enough to start in 2019 and no other QB has approached his level of play to date, I believe he will guarantee him the job to prevent the transfer. Otherwise we could lose a known commodity and we will be left hoping that somebody else raises their game.
 
A 5th year senior QB is a 5th year senior QB any where. Let's stop pretending Stevens has proven he's elite or even starting-caliber. I'm excited about his potential but we've yet to see what he's capable of doing.

Any of the other QBs can surpass him within the next 18 months. Any of them. I have no idea what being a captain for 2019 means or why that would even be discussed right now. You don't start someone simply because they're a veteran or respected. You start the best player. Again, Joe is gone--this isn't 1980.

If you don't think he is "starting-caliber" you haven't been paying attention.
 
If you don't think he is "starting-caliber" you haven't been paying attention.

Is he starting? If he's not starting he hasn't proven it...simple
Listen, I really like Stevens. I think he could end up at a lot of different schools next year and start immediately. I think there's a good chance he'll start in 2019 if he stays but it isn't a lock like so many want to make it out to be. The point is simple...there's no guarantee that he will be the best QB on the roster in August on 2019. That shouldn't be difficult to grasp. It's common sense. No one knows what the future holds. We could add a QB with experience (such as Jalen Hurts), Clifford could progress faster than expected, we could add a top-tier recruit that we deem worthy of starting day 1. There's no guarantee that if he stays he starts. And, no, he has not started yet and has not proven he can. He's shown he deserves a shot--somewhere.
 
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Staying is a risk--there's no guarantee he starts in 2019. It's going to be difficult to turn the reigns over to a guy for one year IMO. He'd have to be significantly ahead of everyone else--not just better. If he's happy here he should stay...if he wants to compete for an opportunity to start for 2 years I think he should jump. All what's best for him and what he wants.

You say a ton of dumb things with conviction, but that one takes the cake.

I have no idea what Stevens will do or what promises are involved, but the notion that Franklin wouldn’t play the guy that gives the team the best chance to win in 2019, regardless of class, shows how out of touch with reality you are. Significantly ahead of everyone else? Good grief.
 
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I disagree when the overwhelming favorite to start and likely leader of the offense is considering transferring.

While people may disagree and I may be way off base because I am a mere fan and not a coach, everything that I have heard and seen gives me reason to believe that the coaching staff has a high level of confidence in Stevens' ability and that the separation between Stevens and McSorley is not that great. Further, I have not heard anything to make me believe that the coaches believe the other QBs on the roster are close to the level of Stevens at this time.

Franklin has seen enough of Stevens to know whether he is good enough to be a starter in 2019. If he has confidence that Stevens is good enough to start in 2019 and no other QB has approached his level of play to date, I believe he will guarantee him the job to prevent the transfer. Otherwise we could lose a known commodity and we will be left hoping that somebody else raises their game.
As I said, chances are that Franklin can assume that Stevens will be good enough, But he isn't stupid enough to promise anyone anything.....even God doesn't know how good Clifford might be in another year. Any coach who makes those sort of promises will be exposed quickly. Its a results oriented business. I was never good enough to coach in college, but in 15 years as a high school head coach, I never promised anyone they would start.....it would be even more bizarre to make that commitment a year in advance.
 
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Is he starting? If he's not starting he hasn't proven it...simple
Listen, I really like Stevens. I think he could end up at a lot of different schools next year and start immediately. I think there's a good chance he'll start in 2019 if he stays but it isn't a lock like so many want to make it out to be. The point is simple...there's no guarantee that he will be the best QB on the roster in August on 2019. That shouldn't be difficult to grasp. It's common sense. No one knows what the future holds. We could add a QB with experience (such as Jalen Hurts), Clifford could progress faster than expected, we could add a top-tier recruit that we deem worthy of starting day 1. There's no guarantee that if he stays he starts. And, no, he has not started yet and has not proven he can. He's shown he deserves a shot--somewhere.

Tommy is one unfortunate play away from being our starter this year. We have been EXTREMELY lucky at that position over the last two years.

If I'm Tommy, I stay right where I'm at knowing that whatever happens, I will have the inside track on 2019. Why go to a place 3,000 miles away where I would have to learn an entirely new offense that doesn't emphasize all my athletic abilities? And where I would have less national exposure and less probability of overall team success?

Would make absolutely no sense. That's putting a LOT of trust in Mike Leach, whom I like, not trying to sell you a ton of snake oil as a clandestine insurance policy for his own Program.
 
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Tommy is one unfortunate play away from being our starter this year. We have been EXTREMELY lucky at that position over the last two years.

If I'm Tommy, I stay right where I'm at knowing that whatever happens, I will have the inside track on 2019. Why go to a place 3,000 miles away where I would have to learn an entirely new offense that doesn't emphasize all my athletic abilities? And where I would have less national exposure and less probability of overall team success?

Would make absolutely no sense. That's putting a LOT of trust in Mike Leach, whom I like, not trying to sell you a ton of snake oil as a clandestine insurance policy for his own Program.


Because Tommy needs as much game time as possible if he has any dreams about playing this sport professionally.

Tommy staying and shortening the number of games he gets to play at the collegiate level makes absolutely no sense for him.

Staying is just stupid if he has pro ambitions, period.
 
Has any of us observed Tommy Stevens, or any other non-starting QB currently on roster, throw the football with the accuracy, touch/deftness, and timing as Trace McSorely?

I'll answer my own question with a resounding "No".

We've seen Tommy Stevens frequently call his own number and run the ball in mop-up duty, but beyond that .... who really knows?
 
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Is he starting? If he's not starting he hasn't proven it...simple
Listen, I really like Stevens. I think he could end up at a lot of different schools next year and start immediately. I think there's a good chance he'll start in 2019 if he stays but it isn't a lock like so many want to make it out to be. The point is simple...there's no guarantee that he will be the best QB on the roster in August on 2019. That shouldn't be difficult to grasp. It's common sense. No one knows what the future holds. We could add a QB with experience (such as Jalen Hurts), Clifford could progress faster than expected, we could add a top-tier recruit that we deem worthy of starting day 1. There's no guarantee that if he stays he starts. And, no, he has not started yet and has not proven he can. He's shown he deserves a shot--somewhere.

He is the best QB on the roster after McSorley. If he leaves it will be a big loss for PSU.
Coach Franklin who I am sure knows much more than you is working hard to keep him.
Enough said.
 
Stevens is believed to be almost as good (if not as good) as McSorley. If McSorley were going to be be here in 2019, I think Franklin would guarantee him the starting job in 2019 to keep him from transferring. Given that Stevens talents are perceived to be almost as good as McSorley's, making the guarantee is a no brainer.

If Stevens is the starter at the beginning of 2019, Franklin will have kept his promise. If Stevens plays his way out of the starting position on the field, he will have no one to blame but himself.

Sorry, but this is insane. Guarantee a player a starting job 19 months in advance? Seriously? How do you possibly generate competition at the position? What happens when the next player who is "almost as good" as the starter threatens to transfer unless he's named the starter for the subsequent season? Cause that's what will happen. I've not seen anything from Franklin that would even remotely suggest that he would consider doing something like this. At least I sure hope not.
 
Has any of us observed Tommy Stevens, or any other non-starting QB currently on roster, throw the football with the accuracy, touch/deftness, and timing as Trace McSorely?

I'll answer my own question with a resounding "No".

We've seen Tommy Stevens frequently call his own number and run the ball in mop-up duty, but beyond that .... who really knows?

I'm sure you don't. You are an expert at not knowing.
 
He is the best QB on the roster after McSorley. If he leaves it will be a big loss for PSU.
Coach Franklin who I am sure knows much more than you is working hard to keep him.
Enough said.

Did I ever say we shouldn't try to keep him or he wouldn't be the backup in 2018 if he stays?
I'm talking about what is best for Stevens. I don't know why that's hard to grasp for people. If he believes he can play in the NFL and wants to do whatever it takes to reach that level then I think he'd be best suited leaving and trying to start for two years. We've seen guys successfully do that in the past--even drop to FCS. Playing time matters a ton for QBs. He's not going to get that here--at least not in 2018 barring an injury
 
Did I ever say we shouldn't try to keep him or he wouldn't be the backup in 2018 if he stays?
I'm talking about what is best for Stevens. I don't know why that's hard to grasp for people. If he believes he can play in the NFL and wants to do whatever it takes to reach that level then I think he'd be best suited leaving and trying to start for two years. We've seen guys successfully do that in the past--even drop to FCS. Playing time matters a ton for QBs. He's not going to get that here--at least not in 2018 barring an injury

I'm glad you know what is best for him. You should be a career consultant. Two years starting at a lesser school or one year at PSU with a dynamic offense, highly ranked receivers and tight ends, excellent
RB's and what should be an outstanding OL. Many might opt for the latter and Franklin will
be selling that.
 
Sorry, but this is insane. Guarantee a player a starting job 19 months in advance? Seriously? How do you possibly generate competition at the position? What happens when the next player who is "almost as good" as the starter threatens to transfer unless he's named the starter for the subsequent season? Cause that's what will happen. I've not seen anything from Franklin that would even remotely suggest that he would consider doing something like this. At least I sure hope not.
If I remember correctly CJF stressed it was very important to have competition at all positions when all sanctions were finally lifted.
 
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Because Tommy needs as much game time as possible if he has any dreams about playing this sport professionally.

Tommy staying and shortening the number of games he gets to play at the collegiate level makes absolutely no sense for him.

Staying is just stupid if he has pro ambitions, period.

Leaving is even stupider considering he is just one play away from being the starter right here.

What makes you think Mike Leach isn't just looking for a quality backup? There is absolutely no guarantee he will be the starter at Washington State. Malik Zaire basically sat on the bench all this year at Florida after transferring from Notre Dame.

Tommy could be on the National stage here. At Washington State, they won't even be kicking off until most of the Country is already in bed.
 
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I'm glad you know what is best for him. You should be a career consultant. Two years starting at a lesser school or one year at PSU with a dynamic offense, highly ranked receivers and tight ends, excellent
RB's and what should be an outstanding OL. Many might opt for the latter and Franklin will
be selling that.


Based on history, you're simply wrong. 1 year QBs at the college level have a fantastic rate of failure at the next level. And there's ZERO logic behind your theory that playing in a great offense with superior skill weapons is a good thing for Stevens development as a quarterback. You don't have superior skill weapons in the NFL. No one does. It's a completely different game.

Fans are Un-Freaking-Believable... Even with a Heisman caliber QB at the helm, the backup QB is STILL the most popular player on the team with nimrods. Probability is overwhelming likely that Tommy Stevens would be just an average or below average P5 quarterback in a full time role, but some fans will twist and contrive all logic and common sense to convince themselves of anything.

I get it you want to see the kid play for PSU, but there if he has any professional goals or aspirations at all, there is zero benefit for him to stay here.
 
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Leaving is even stupider considering he is just one play away from being the starter right here.

What makes you think Mike Leach isn't just looking for a quality backup? There is absolutely no guarantee he will be the starter at Washington State. Malik Zaire basically sat on the bench all this year at Florida after transferring from Notre Dame.

Tommy could be on the National stage here. At Washington State, they won't even be kicking off until most of the Country is already in bed.


So Tommy is so spectacular, slam dunk elite QB that he can easily start for a Top 10 Penn State program, but you also think there's a good chance he could get buried on the bench at Washington State or some other middling P5 program?

Okay, you Tommyphiles have jumped the shark.
 
Based on history, you're simply wrong. 1 year QBs at the college level have a fantastic rate of failure at the next level. And there's ZERO logic behind your theory that playing in a great offense with superior skill weapons is a good thing for Stevens development as a quarterback. You don't have superior skill weapons in the NFL. No one does. It's a completely different game.

Fans are Un-Freaking-Believable... Even with a Heisman caliber QB at the helm, the backup QB is STILL the most popular player on the team with nimrods. Probability is overwhelming likely that Tommy Stevens would be just an average or below average P5 quarterback in a full time role, but some fans will twist and contrive all logic and common sense to convince themselves of anything.

I get it you want to see the kid play for PSU, but there if he has any professional goals or aspirations at all, there is zero benefit for him to stay here.

Your post is filled with so many inaccuracies that I don't know where to start. So I will just
say again that Coach Franklin is working to keep him and he obviously knows much
more that those of your ilk.
 
unless CJF or Rick Rahne are posting in this thread, this is all uninformed speculation

but that is what we do- so carry on
 
As I said, chances are that Franklin can assume that Stevens will be good enough, But he isn't stupid enough to promise anyone anything.....even God doesn't know how good Clifford might be in another year. Any coach who makes those sort of promises will be exposed quickly. Its a results oriented business. I was never good enough to coach in college, but in 15 years as a high school head coach, I never promised anyone they would start.....it would be even more bizarre to make that commitment a year in advance.

Since I am not a coach and I have not observed practices, I am going to make some assumptions that may or may not be correct, but which I believe to be the current situation. I am assuming that Tommy Stevens is good enough to start at QB on a top 20 football team right now. I am assuming that no other backup QB on the roster is good enough to start on a top 20 team right now and all other backups require a lot more development before they reach that point. I don't think the foregoing assumptions are that far off.

Now if the above assumptions are in fact true (which only the coaches know), if Stevens is seriously considering transferring, IMO Franklin should do whatever it takes to make sure he has a QB worthy of starting on a top 20 team, including making a guarantee that Stevens starts if he continues to work hard and stays out of trouble. I believe we have a national championship caliber team in 2019 with a solid QB (which I believe Stevens already is). If Stevens leaves, the QB position becomes a huge question mark for 2019 and expectations (as we sit here today) will not be nearly as high.
 
Probability is overwhelming likely that Tommy Stevens would be just an average or below average P5 quarterback in a full time role, but some fans will twist and contrive all logic and common sense to convince themselves of anything.

If this is true, don't you think a smart guy like Mike Leach would have already figured this out?

Can you guarantee Tommy that Mike Leach would make him the starter? Can you guarantee Tommy that Trace won't get hurt?

Kid would be absolutely nuts to leave the situation he is in right now unless Franklin has told him definitively that he will never be a starter at Penn State. I highly doubt that has happened. But I don't doubt that you have an alterior motive being that you only have 57 posts since you joined roughly a month after the Sandusky situation broke.
 
Leaving is even stupider considering he is just one play away from being the starter right here.

What makes you think Mike Leach isn't just looking for a quality backup? There is absolutely no guarantee he will be the starter at Washington State. Malik Zaire basically sat on the bench all this year at Florida after transferring from Notre Dame.

Tommy could be on the National stage here. At Washington State, they won't even be kicking off until most of the Country is already in bed.

What does being on a national stage matter? You can play anywhere and achieve the goal of playing in the NFL. Washington State can produce an NFL QB. What do fans being asleep have to do with anything?
 
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Tommy Stevens should consider ALL options then decide what is best for him and what he wants to accomplish. If the ability to start for two years is something is really wants to have then he has no option but to leave. If competing for the job in 2019 with a chance to win a title is more important to him than playing for 2 years at Wazzu or Kansas State or Virginia or Delaware or wherever then he should stay. It all comes down to his priorities. If he leaves, wish him the best (aside from when he plays us) and thank him for his time here. If he stays, hopefully he's the man in 2019 and the decision pays off for him.

Some people keep talking about a top 20 program. Washington State was ranked 18th in the final college football playoff rankings. So, wouldn't that make them a team that, at the very least, could be a top 20 team--especially in the Pac XII? yes, MSU destroyed them but they didn't have Falk
 
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