TOM Pre Season Rankings

[Ian]

PSU in at 5th at 60 pts with this lineup

125 NR Open
133 3 Roman-Bravo Young
141 3 Nick Lee
149 17 Jarod Verkleeren
157 14 Brady Berge
165 8 Joe Lee
174 6 Carter Starocci
184 4 Aaron Brooks
197 15 Michael Beard
285 10 Greg Kerkvliet

Iowa #1 at 116.5 pts. with this lineup

125 1 Spencer Lee
133 4 Austin DeSanto
141 2 Jaydin Eierman
149 8 Max Murin
157 10 Kaleb Young
165 2 Alex Marinelli
174 1 Michael Kemerer
184 10 Abe Assad
197 6 Jacob Warner
285 3 Anthony Cassioppi

 

[AgSurfer]

Correction. You mean Penn State, the DEFENDING National champions, in at 5th.

 

[Thenightking]

Kerk at #10 way too low!! Murin at #8 at 149 way to high!! Starocci and Brooks both ranked too low.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Eireman 2
Lee 3


Somebody missed their last meeting.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

PSU in at 5th at 60 pts with this lineup

125 NR Open
133 3 Roman-Bravo Young
141 3 Nick Lee
149 17 Jarod Verkleeren
157 14 Brady Berge
165 8 Joe Lee
174 6 Carter Starocci
184 4 Aaron Brooks
197 15 Michael Beard
285 10 Greg Kerkvliet

Iowa #1 at 116.5 pts. with this lineup

125 1 Spencer Lee
133 4 Austin DeSanto
141 2 Jaydin Eierman
149 8 Max Murin
157 10 Kaleb Young
165 2 Alex Marinelli
174 1 Michael Kemerer
184 10 Abe Assad
197 6 Jacob Warner
285 3 Anthony Cassioppi

And, so it begins.

 

[MikeJones2353]

Is Bartlett worth starting this year to move up RBY and Lee? Verkleeren clearly doesn't have it.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Is Bartlett worth starting this year to move up RBY and Lee? Verkleeren clearly doesn't have it.

I don't see the value in moving two known entities up a weight, when we've never heard anything about them struggling with cuts. The risk/reward doesn't seem to be there.

 

[5q]

I would think Beard would end up too 8, Kerk top 4

hoping Brady is healthy as he should be top 6


Curious if Verk goes or if someone unseats him.

 

[dmm53]

Kemerer has been around forever; at least since since '15 ... and it feels like 1915

 

[nitlion6]

PSU in at 5th at 60 pts with this lineup

125 NR Open
133 3 Roman-Bravo Young
141 3 Nick Lee
149 17 Jarod Verkleeren
157 14 Brady Berge
165 8 Joe Lee
174 6 Carter Starocci
184 4 Aaron Brooks
197 15 Michael Beard
285 10 Greg Kerkvliet

Iowa #1 at 116.5 pts. with this lineup

125 1 Spencer Lee
133 4 Austin DeSanto
141 2 Jaydin Eierman
149 8 Max Murin
157 10 Kaleb Young
165 2 Alex Marinelli
174 1 Michael Kemerer
184 10 Abe Assad
197 6 Jacob Warner
285 3 Anthony Cassioppi

Marinelli #2????

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Marinelli #2????

They have Mehki Lewis @165

 

[PSU_Pride_93]

So is this about the time of the thread we start asking when Spencer lee is going to be transferring in? I’ve been patiently waiting all summer

 

[nitlion6]

They have Mehki Lewis @165

Ok. Forgot about his return.
Thanks.

 

[82bordeaux]

Is there an over/under line in Vegas for that 5th place finish?

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

So is this about the time of the thread we start asking when Spencer lee is going to be transferring in? I’ve been patiently waiting all summer

When is Spencer Lee transferring in?

Asking for a friend.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

They have Mehki Lewis @165

He’s prolly a finalist at either weight. What does VT’s lineup look like, I think he’ll go wherever benefits the team more.

 

[Locolion]

Eireman 2
Lee 3


Somebody missed their last meeting.

Exactly. Who do they have at #1 at Nick Lee’s weight?

 

[Used2BEerie]

Exactly. Who do they have at #1 at Nick Lee’s weight?

Haven't looked at their rankings, but I would guess Yianni.

 

[82bordeaux]

Exactly. Who do they have at #1 at Nick Lee’s weight?

Yianni

 

[NittanyChris]

Rankings are not predictions, something that is debatable, but that's how they've been handled. In the long run, after the wrestlers have had a chance to show it on the mat, we will find that:
Kerkvliet > Cassioppi
N Lee > Eierman
Beard > Warner
RBY > DeSanto
That's just for starters...

 

[El-Jefe]

He’s prolly a finalist at either weight. What does VT’s lineup look like, I think he’ll go wherever benefits the team more.

VT's lineup is much better with Lewis at 165.

But what we don't know is if Robie has Cael's philosophy, that the very best guys pick their weights and everyone else adjusts. If so, we don't know which weigh Lewis prefers.

All evidence points to him going 165, so that's my assumption until proven otherwise.

 

[El-Jefe]

Rankings are not predictions, something that is debatable, but that's how they've been handled. In the long run, after the wrestlers have had a chance to show it on the mat, we will find that:
Kerkvliet > Cassioppi
N Lee > Eierman
Beard > Warner
RBY > DeSanto
That's just for starters...

Tap if you think RBY finishes higher.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Tap if you think RBY finishes higher.

Looks like a coaches farting competition.

 

[McScoreley]

I'm curious, what were DT, Ruth, Zain, Nolf, Bo ranked coming in as freshman?

I'll temper my expectations but .... history says we should be very optimistic about Joe Lee, Carter Starocci, Michael Beard and Greg Kerkvliet.

I can see Lee and Beard taking some lumps during the season only to have their moment in March.

 

[Str8DBLz]

Barraclaugh might make an appearance in the lineup.

Is Bartlett worth starting this year to move up RBY and Lee? Verkleeren clearly doesn't have it.

 

[Locolion]

Yianni

Criminy- I forgot re: Yanni at 141. From what I remember, Lee seemed pretty comfortable handling Eiermann. Seems like Eiermann’s on his 11th year.

 

[NittanyChris]

Yianni

I thought Yianni was going 49 this year? I guess we'll find out.

 

[82bordeaux]

Barraclaugh might make an appearance in the lineup.

When I spoke with him at the Edinboro Open he expressed interest in going up to 157.

 

[jtothemfp]

I'm curious, what were DT, Ruth, Zain, Nolf, Bo ranked coming in as freshman?

I'll temper my expectations but .... history says we should be very optimistic about Joe Lee, Carter Starocci, Michael Beard and Greg Kerkvliet.

I can see Lee and Beard taking some lumps during the season only to have their moment in March.

Oooh, oooh, I've got some of these! I didn't really learn how to properly score team points in tourneys til 2011 B1Gs, so I don't have Taylor or Ruth's preseason rankings, although I remember following Taylor's progression up the ladder on Intermat's rankings in 2011 & think I remember him in the teens before he rolled through the Scuffle. Probably similar for Ruth, before he took Lewnes down 3 times. I think Zain's big Streeeblererrr win was in Dec of 2013? He obviously skyrocketed after that, but I don't have other data for him.

But I do have preseason rankings ahead of the 2016 season:

Recall that Nolf showed out better at the 2015 season's Scuffle, beating Realbuto, Tommy Gantt, Russell Parsons, before bowing to James Green 7-4 in the finals. Guessing Ian Miller may have been #2 behind IMar in some of those services?

Nickal won 2 bouts before losing to Andy McCulley in TB2 4-3 in the 3rd round, then MFF'd out. Ahead of him in the rankings were Bo Jordan (#1, after finishing 3rd at 165 in 2015), Realbuto (who'd jumped 2 weight classes after getting majored by IMar in the 2015 157lb finals, and who Nickal beat in the ensuing Scuffle, in that wild 14-7 DEC, to give notice to the country), Kyle Crutchmer & Zach Epperly (another soon-to-be victim, in the dual in Blacksburg).

Here's Iowa & OkSt rankings from the same date, 2015 0117:

And here are tOSU & Cornell just for fun:

 

[PAHURDLER]

Oooh, oooh, I've got some of these! I didn't really learn how to properly score team points in tourneys til 2011 B1Gs, so I don't have Taylor or Ruth's preseason rankings, although I remember following Taylor's progression up the ladder on Intermat's rankings in 2011 & think I remember him in the teens before he rolled through the Scuffle. Probably similar for Ruth, before he took Lewnes down 3 times. I think Zain's big Streeeblererrr win was in Dec of 2013? He obviously skyrocketed after that, but I don't have other data for him.

But I do have preseason rankings ahead of the 2016 season:

Recall that Nolf showed out better at the 2015 season's Scuffle, beating Realbuto, Tommy Gantt, Russell Parsons, before bowing to James Green 7-4 in the finals. Guessing Ian Miller may have been #2 behind IMar in some of those services?

Nickal won 2 bouts before losing to Andy McCulley in TB2 4-3 in the 3rd round, then MFF'd out. Ahead of him in the rankings were Bo Jordan (#1, after finishing 3rd at 165 in 2015), Realbuto (who'd jumped 2 weight classes after getting majored by IMar in the 2015 157lb finals, and who Nickal beat in the ensuing Scuffle, in that wild 14-7 DEC, to give notice to the country), Kyle Crutchmer & Zach Epperly (another soon-to-be victim, in the dual in Blacksburg).

Here's Iowa & OkSt rankings from the same date, 2015 0117:

And here are tOSU & Cornell just for fun:

Anyone else having trouble viewing the posted images?

 

[PSUer1989]

Anyone else having trouble viewing the posted images?

Yep

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

Yep

There have been many times when images don't show up for me. Sometimes they will randomly show up later.

 

[CholleyVandine]

I'm curious, what were DT, Ruth, Zain, Nolf, Bo ranked coming in as freshman?

I'll temper my expectations but .... history says we should be very optimistic about Joe Lee, Carter Starocci, Michael Beard and Greg Kerkvliet.

I can see Lee and Beard taking some lumps during the season only to have their moment in March.

Here are the PSU freshman All Americans in the Cael era with their pre-season freshman rankings and the points they scored at NCAAs freshman year:

Taylor - 6th ranked, 19.5 points
Ruth - 13th ranked, 18.5 points
Megaludis - 19th ranked, 18 points
D Alton - unranked (Intermat), 15.5 points
Retherford - 13th ranked*, 12 points
Nolf - 5th ranked, 22 points
Nickal - unranked, 18 points
Joseph - unranked, 23 points
Hall - unranked, 22.5 points
N Lee - unranked, 11.5 points

* I can't find preseason rankings from 2013, but in late November (when he was already 7-0), Retherford was ranked 13th by USA Wrestling (Here's the link: https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestli...2013/November/6/Week-1-DI-individual-rankings)

The take away for me ... preseason rankings don't have much to do with what happens in March.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Here are the PSU freshman All Americans in the Cael era with their pre-season freshman rankings and the points they scored at NCAAs freshman year:

Taylor - 6th ranked, 19.5 points
Ruth - 13th ranked, 18.5 points
Megaludis - 19th ranked, 18 points
D Alton - unranked (Intermat), 15.5 points
Retherford - 13th ranked*, 12 points
Nolf - 5th ranked, 22 points
Nickal - unranked, 18 points
Joseph - unranked, 23 points
Hall - unranked, 22.5 points
N Lee - unranked, 11.5 points

* I can't find preseason rankings from 2013, but in late November (when he was already 7-0), Retherford was ranked 13th by USA Wrestling (Here's the link: https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestli...2013/November/6/Week-1-DI-individual-rankings)

The take away for me ... preseason rankings don't have much to do with what happens in March.

Hall and Lee started their seasons in redshirt. Their first in-season rankings after their shirts were burned would be a better comparison.

Also, Mega and Zain started as true freshmen which also skews the comparison with the current roster of freshmen that all redshirted and have in-season tournament experience.

 

[jtothemfp]

There have been many times when images don't show up for me. Sometimes they will randomly show up later.

Well, puhp! Here I was all excited to #contribute to the #discourse, and I went back to Freshman year of Internet School and jacked it all up.

Yeah, it depends on how well / where the images are hosted. I tried OneDrive at first, which proved problematic.

So, now I've re-hosted them in old reliable Imgur, and updated the post with links to them there.

Would any of y'all give this ole internet newb another chance?

 

[jtothemfp]

Oooh, oooh, I've got some of these! I didn't really learn how to properly score team points in tourneys til 2011 B1Gs, so I don't have Taylor or Ruth's preseason rankings, although I remember following Taylor's progression up the ladder on Intermat's rankings in 2011 & think I remember him in the teens before he rolled through the Scuffle. Probably similar for Ruth, before he took Lewnes down 3 times. I think Zain's big Streeeblererrr win was in Dec of 2013? He obviously skyrocketed after that, but I don't have other data for him.

But I do have preseason rankings ahead of the 2016 season:

Recall that Nolf showed out better at the 2015 season's Scuffle, beating Realbuto, Tommy Gantt, Russell Parsons, before bowing to James Green 7-4 in the finals. Guessing Ian Miller may have been #2 behind IMar in some of those services?

Nickal won 2 bouts before losing to Andy McCulley in TB2 4-3 in the 3rd round, then MFF'd out. Ahead of him in the rankings were Bo Jordan (#1, after finishing 3rd at 165 in 2015), Realbuto (who'd jumped 2 weight classes after getting majored by IMar in the 2015 157lb finals, and who Nickal beat in the ensuing Scuffle, in that wild 14-7 DEC, to give notice to the country), Kyle Crutchmer & Zach Epperly (another soon-to-be victim, in the dual in Blacksburg).

Here's Iowa & OkSt rankings from the same date, 2015 0117:

And here are tOSU & Cornell just for fun:

Hi Friends! Can you see my pretty pictures now? Please come back and try?

 

[86PSUPaul]

Hi Friends! Can you see my pretty pictures now? Please come back and try?

Yep, they are there! Though pretty as a descriptor might be a stretch....

 

[jack66]

I'd be interested to know where our team has been ranked the last 10 preseasons. Flo? InterMat? TOM?

 

[jtothemfp]

Yep, they are there! Though pretty as a descriptor might be a stretch....

And what is the internet for, after all, if not stretching? Warning, gratuitous stretching alert!

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

And what is the internet for, after all, if not stretching? Warning, gratuitous stretching alert!

Ouch!! That is some flexibility there. As I have gotten older all those old wrestling injuries sure have taken their toll. My flexibility is nearly non-existent nowadays. Thanks for re-posting the charts, bright pretty colors and all! Even though I am now retired and have more time to research technological questions, I still have a love/hate relationship with technology. Something about old dogs and new tricks . . .