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Thread on testing & treatment research for COVID-19

BFPSU said:
Hmmm.....seems like my last post "disappeared". Let's try this again-
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Link to the study for transparency for anyone who wants to read and make their own decision/opinion-
https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext
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quit being a conspiratorial jerk. three posts above your most recent post is the EXACT SAME REPORT, with the EXACT SAME LINK as you posted. Your prior post got deleted because ... THE EXACT SAME INFORMATION WAS ALREADY POSTED. Such a huge challenge to look a few posts up in a thread.

Good grief
 
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Tom McAndrew said:
quit being a conspiratorial jerk. three posts about your most recent post is the EXACT SAME REPORT, with the EXACT SAME LINK as you posted. Your prior post got deleted because ... THE EXACT SAME INFORMATION WAS ALREADY POSTED. Such a huge challenge to look a few posts up in a thread.

Good grief
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Ok Tom, I stand corrected-but you know what, I've been on this board for almost 20 years and during the prior incarnation also and don't cause problems-maybe since so few posts get deleted on here, you as the moderator can drop my a PM and tell what was up, that's all I'm saying. Since I can't DM you-I reposted my links.
Thanks
 
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Tom McAndrew said:
quit being a conspiratorial jerk. three posts about your most recent post is the EXACT SAME REPORT, with the EXACT SAME LINK as you posted. Your prior post got deleted because ... THE EXACT SAME INFORMATION WAS ALREADY POSTED. Such a huge challenge to look a few posts up in a thread.

Good grief
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Wow... I’ve never seen Tom go ALL CAPS on anyone before :)
 
BFPSU said:
Ok Tom, I stand corrected-but you know what, I've been on this board for almost 20 years and during the prior incarnation and don't cause problems-maybe since so few posts get deleted on here, you as the moderator can drop my a PM and tell what was up, that's all I'm saying. Since I can't DM you-I reposted my links.
Thanks
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We don't send PMs explaining our actions. It's as simple as that.
 
Tom McAndrew said:
We don't send PMs explaining our actions. It's as simple as that.
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Cool, it's your board, don't know why you are so touchy on this one subject? But it is what it is. As I told someone the other day, I know tensions are running high and I know you are a good guy from watching/following you on here all these years. It's a dead issue with me Tom, ok? It's not worth throwing 20 yrs out the door interacting with others on here over a difference of opinion.
 
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Tom McAndrew said:
tap the breaks a bit. It's a retrospective observational study. They state in the paper's conclusions that "prospective trials are needed to examine this impact."
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a retrospective "natural experiment" is done a lot of situations. it is a great debate as to why this is not the equal of a prospective. of course that would be a good reason for some to contain this. obviously, Henry Ford system will likely start utilizing.
 
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ralphster said:
https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30530-0/fulltext#

This commentary on the above article lists a few reasons why the Henry Ford health system study, and retrospective studies in general, are often inferior to prospective, randomized, blinded, controlled trials, if anyone is interested.
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What stands out to me in this commentary are these two snippets:

"Finally, concomitant steroid use in patients receiving hydroxychloroquine was more than double the non-treated group. This is relevant considering the recent RECOVERY trial that showed a mortality benefit with dexamethasone (Horby et al., 2020) among individuals requiring supplemental oxygen or mechanical ventilation, potentially biasing this study’s results in favor of hydroxychloroquine."

"It is a failing of healthcare systems and research infrastructure that the protocolization of unproven therapies is exponentially easier to execute than participation in pragmatic randomized controlled trials."
 
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BFPSU said:
Oh ok, now we can just start saying suck dick on here? Hmmm......? Ok, I see how it goes, I guess you are only allowed to post things one way. Oh and Art, you are always free to speak to me face to face, you’ve been a wise ass on here for years.
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Kinda hoped that would get a (ahem) rise out of someone and it succeeded.
 
You quoted my post after it was deleted and I said my peace to Tom. Get over yourself-I’ll keep on posting whenever and whatever. But I’m done hijacking this thread with nonsense oh and Art, what’s up-are you upset that Hydroxychlorquine has shown success? Are you rooting against it because you would rather see people suffer than go against your agenda?
 
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BFPSU said:
You quoted my post after it was deleted and I said me peace to Tom. Get over yourself-I’ll keep on posting whenever and whatever. But I’m done hijacking this thread with nonsense oh and Art, what’s up-are you upset that Hydroxychlorquine has shown success? Are you rooting against it because you would rather see people suffer than go against your agenda?
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It's working better than I imagined.
 
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The University of Minnesota released the results of a recent study on June 3 of HCQ for post exposure prophylaxis of COVID ( that is, people were given HCQ after exposure to SARS CoV - 2 before developing COVID ). The study used HCQ alone, HCQ with Zn or HCQ with Vitamin C. The study results did not demonstrate any outcome benefit from HCQ regardless of whether it was given alone or in combination with Zn or Vitamin C. Complications from HCQ therapy were minimal.
This was a good study, and I think the studies should continue. HCQ is continuing to be used in many countries, and if it is effective, repeated studies should be able to repeatedly demonstrate that it can provide benefit under certain protocols. It is up to the researchers to design studies to find the truth in this matter.
 
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https://seekingalpha.com/news/3588536-gileads-remdesivir-okd-in-europe-for-covidminus-19

The European Commission has conditionally approved Gilead Sciences' (NASDAQ:GILD) Veklury (remdesivir) for the treatment of patients at least 12 years old with COVID-19 pneumonia requiring supplemental oxygen.

The nod is initially valid for one year but can be extended or converted into unconditional approval upon the submission and assessment of additional confirmatory data.
 
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Art said:
Predictable: Todaro, a non-practicing opthamologist, now an investor and another retrospective "study" (Mt Sinai).
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Did Todaro actually do the studies or just report them? What does he invest in? A 50 year old Malaria drug that costs about 50 cents? What is your point?
 
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roswelllion said:
Did Todaro actually do the studies or just report them? What odes he invest in? A 50 year old Malaria drug that costs about 50 cents? What is your point?
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Todaro just links to them Doesn't disclose what he invest in other than bitcoin. The first time he touted hydroxychloroquine it was along with another investor who indicated that he was an advisor to Stanford Med, and a biochemist. Stanford said that the first guy had no relationship to the school. Subsequently, the biochemist took his name off the paper.

The purpose of the Mt Sinai study was to identify risk factors associated with Covid 19. It offered the data on chloroquine as an observation with the typical qualifications.

Retrospective studies have their use, usually to point to the need for randomized ones. We're past that point.

Yes, hydroxychloroquine is cheap. It can also kill you.
 
What happened to the post about being sick in November and having Covid I responded to??
 
sluggo72 said:
What happened to the post about being sick in November and having Covid I responded to??
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The post to which you responded to was kinda dumb. If someone suspects that they had Covid19 during the last quarter of 2019, they can get a serology test to determine it one way or another.
 
Art said:
The post to which you responded to was kinda dumb. If someone suspects that they had Covid19 during the last quarter of 2019, they can get a serology test to determine it one way or another.
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Serology test? Who ? what? Tia
 
Art said:
Todaro just links to them Doesn't disclose what he invest in other than bitcoin. The first time he touted hydroxychloroquine it was along with another investor who indicated that he was an advisor to Stanford Med, and a biochemist. Stanford said that the first guy had no relationship to the school. Subsequently, the biochemist took his name off the paper.

The purpose of the Mt Sinai study was to identify risk factors associated with Covid 19. It offered the data on chloroquine as an observation with the typical qualifications.

Retrospective studies have their use, usually to point to the need for randomized ones. We're past that point.

Yes, hydroxychloroquine is cheap. It can also kill you.
Click to expand...
I don’t know Todaro from a hill of beans. You can question any study you want but to bad mouth the guy who links them is silly. Then you question a guy who might be investing. If you don’t think there are investors in Gilead and Remdisivir you are incredibly naive. There are a whole lot more folks who will get rich with a new drug than by suggesting HCQ or a steroid might help.
 
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roswelllion said:
I don’t know Todaro from a hill of beans. You can question any study you want but to bad mouth the guy who links them is silly. Then you question a guy who might be investing. If you don’t there are investors in Gilead and Remdisivir you are incredibly naive. There are a whole lot more folks who will get rich with a new drug than by suggesting HCQ or a steroid might help.
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Badmouth? By suggesting that it is "predictable" that Todaro was linking to a retrospective "study" (and mischaracterizing it in the process) on hydroxychloroquine, which is pretty much all he does with regard to Covid19? Describing him as a non-practicing ophthalmologist and an investor, which he is? Mmmmmk.

BTW, chloroquine comes in suppository form. There are studies that suggest it is more effective when administered that way.
 
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roswelllion said:
I don’t know Todaro from a hill of beans. You can question any study you want but to bad mouth the guy who links them is silly. Then you question a guy who might be investing. If you don’t there are investors in Gilead and Remdisivir you are incredibly naive. There are a whole lot more folks who will get rich with a new drug than by suggesting HCQ or a steroid might help.
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i cannot recall when there has been so much controversy around potential treatments of a virus. there appear to be some people who would prefer that nothing works. the motivations here are almost hard to believe.

here is a hypo - what would happen if there from the warp speed (or whatever it is called today) project a new vaccine was announced to be ready at the end of July......what would the reaction be???? if it is anything but 100% happiness, then i wonder what people are thinking.
 
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blion72 said:
i cannot recall when there has been so much controversy around potential treatments of a virus. there appear to be some people who would prefer that nothing works. the motivations here are almost hard to believe.

here is a hypo - what would happen if there from the warp speed (or whatever it is called today) project a new vaccine was announced to be ready at the end of July......what would the reaction be???? if it is anything but 100% happiness, then i wonder what people are thinking.
Click to expand...
Vaccine in July ?
My initial reactions would be astonishment, followed about concerns over it’s safety.

I hope HCQ works. It is cheap, available and it appears to work in vitro. If it does work in humans, repeated studies should repeatedly show that it does work under a specific set of conditions. I can’t say that it has proven itself to be a highly effective therapy to prevent or treat COVID in studies thus far.
I have a lot of friends who are in science careers and they often joke about publishing in The Journal of Irreproducible Results. Let’s hope that is not the case with HCQ.
 
83wuzme said:
Vaccine in July ?
My initial reactions would be astonishment, followed about concerns over it’s safety.

I hope HCQ works. It is cheap, available and it appears to work in vitro. If it does work in humans, repeated studies should repeatedly show that it does work under a specific set of conditions. I can’t say that it has proven itself to be a highly effective therapy to prevent or treat COVID in studies thus far.
I have a lot of friends who are in science careers and they often joke about publishing in The Journal of Irreproducible Results. Let’s hope that is not the case with HCQ.
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Be astonished. The Chinese have a vaccine in use with their military now. Oxford and Moderna are having large scale trials this month though Moderna has been delayed a couple of days.
 
Countrylion said:
Be astonished. The Chinese have a vaccine in use with their military now. Oxford and Moderna are having large scale trials this month though Moderna has been delayed a couple of days.
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The vaccine from China was jointly developed by the Beijing Institute of Biotechnology and CanSino Biologics. For now, it's known as Ad5-nCoV. It's not close to being a viable vaccine. There was reportedly some Phase II testing of the vaccine in May, though no real results were published on it. The vaccine is reportedly (nobody is quite sure) ready for Phase III testing. CanSino announced on June 25th that China's Central Military Commission had given the vaccine "military specially-needed drug approval," and that it was for 1 year, and would only apply to Chinese military personnel. It appears that the military is being used as Phase III subjects. Even if everything goes perfectly (a HUGE, very, very HUGE if), it would then have to get past FDA (for the US) and EMA (for Europe) evaluation and approval before it could be sold as a drug in the USA and in European countries. (I used those 2 agencies, as the FDA is considered the gold standard in drug approval, and the EMA is on the next rung by itself.) While the FDA and the EMA are trying to accelerate their processes for Covid-19 drugs and vaccines, it would surprise most folks that follow drug development if either the FDA or the EMA approve Ad5-nCoV by July 2021 (assuming that it even is worthy of being submitted for evaluation).

Moderna's Phase III trials were slated to start on July 9. It was reported earlier this week that they are changing the structure of their test protocols. They did not state exactly how long this will delay the Phase III trial, but it appears to be more than a couple of days. The best reports out there indicate that Moderna is hoping to start their tweaked Phase III trials by the end of July. That's the start of a Phase III trial, and it's coming on the heels of very limited Phase II data that didn't impress most experts once they took a look at it. In short, Moderna's hoping to start Phase III tests by the end of July. They are nowhere close to having a vaccine ready for evaluation/approval by regulators.
 
Art said:
Todaro just links to them Doesn't disclose what he invest in other than bitcoin. The first time he touted hydroxychloroquine it was along with another investor who indicated that he was an advisor to Stanford Med, and a biochemist. Stanford said that the first guy had no relationship to the school. Subsequently, the biochemist took his name off the paper.

The purpose of the Mt Sinai study was to identify risk factors associated with Covid 19. It offered the data on chloroquine as an observation with the typical qualifications.

Retrospective studies have their use, usually to point to the need for randomized ones. We're past that point.

Yes, hydroxychloroquine is cheap. It can also kill you.
Click to expand...

Peanuts can also kill a person.
 
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