Thanks for the validation. I agree regarding the press. Just seems like such an obvious flaw in a study that is being weighed on heavily to devise policy...
Thread on testing & treatment research for COVID-19
- Thread starter dailybuck777
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there are basically no elective procedures being done right now at any hospitals. Non critical patients are being sent home. hence, low patients census at many hospitals (NY/NJ not withstanding)
Another possible game changer. Ivermectin is an anti-parasitic that has been used around the world since the early 1980s. Already FDA approved. Works on worms, lice etc. Super cheap. The horse version costs $6 per treatment on Ebay and it's a one-treatment drug for worms.
Anyway, Australian researchers remembered it had been shown to have antiviral properties from previous research, so they tested it on C19 in the lab and found virus fell to almost undetectable levels in 48 hours.
So not a great leap to try it on people. Hopefully won't take months to get initial results.
https://www.eturbonews.com/569618/c...-single-dose-of-an-already-fda-approved-drug/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011
Anyway, Australian researchers remembered it had been shown to have antiviral properties from previous research, so they tested it on C19 in the lab and found virus fell to almost undetectable levels in 48 hours.
So not a great leap to try it on people. Hopefully won't take months to get initial results.
https://www.eturbonews.com/569618/c...-single-dose-of-an-already-fda-approved-drug/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011
Is that real? It certainly looks more real than the footage on the "news" companies that are doing much of this for ratings and political gain. Certainly easier to believe the person on the street that walks up to the hospital, in my opinion.
Did CBS get busted showing an Italian ICU from a week ago and pawning it off as NYC a few days ago? The same exact footage!!!! Good find by the masses.
Good thing there haven't been tons of studies so far that arrived at this same conclusion.
I wish life would be so black and white.
Herd immunity is strategy you go after once you have viable treatments and a vaccine. If you're asking that question rhetorically, then you should ask the government if the current approach is the wrong one and criticize it for that.
Linked is the letter from Michigan.
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/...cribing_and_Dispensing_3-24-2020_684869_7.pdf
I don’t read that as a “ban” necessarily but can see how others might see it as that. To me it seems more like they were trying to prevent doctors from prescribing it prophylactically without a legit infection/disease to treat given the first paragraph. Regardless of whether it is poor wording or that they have changed their position, the reality is that it is not currently “banned” in Michigan. So the criticism that lives are being lost because we are withholding treatment until a clinical trial is completed is not currently a valid criticism where it is being used.
Hehe you don't know me. I have three kids -- two engineers and a family physician. I won't tell you my belief system but I do think it's okay for atheists to pray for something good to happen -- not that it will change anything, it's just an expression of how we feel.
I'm sick to death of all these people (and I'm not saying you, I don't know you) who, as soon as Trump said something about a drug, suddenly became purists about the sanctity of randomized double-blinded, peer-reviewed, multi-site-around-the-world repeated trials.
Yes that's the gold standard. But 99% of what is medical textbooks is not backed by that gold standard.That gold standard doesn't take months, it doesn't take years, it takes DECADES. So it is of little relevance for treatment in this pandemic. It might be helpful for the next pandemic 20 or 40 years away.
If you actually read the ongoing discussions between scientists and doctors in forums & on Twitter (which is pretty incredible -- you can watch the scientific process going on in real time) you can see that the understanding of the disease and treatment strategies is growing, not by the day, but by the HOUR.
Very little of this new knowledge has anything to do with double blind studies. It's all based on sharing clinical experience (or, as Fauci calls it, anecdotes). For example the sea change in just the last 4-5 days on ICU treatment -- to realize this disease cannot be treated like every other viral pneumonia that's ever come down the pike.
Trying to pump people's lungs with ventilators just liquifies the damaged lung tissue and kills these patients -- who knew? Huge changes in protocols are being tried in the space of 12 hours -- without any randomized studies. ICU doctors are trying a whole range of medicines in non-standard (meaning untested) ways, trying to find combinations that work better.
When you have a disease that is killing 2,000 Americans a day, soon to be 5,000 and after that 10,000, the rules change. You accept more risk and uncertainty and you try to save people.
And in my opinion, there should be more discussion about whether randomized double-blind studies are even APPROPRIATE with a disease that is so deadly in such a short period of time. If you're testing pimple cream, the control group isn't going to die. If you're testing arthritis, and the drug works, you can give it to the control group and still help them.
In this case these trials are asking people who are struggling for breath to agree to a 50% chance that they get placebo (i.e. NO TREATMENT) for a disease that could kill them in about 12 hours. It is being reported that they're having trouble finding volunteers. Ya think???
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This in the Sermo notes:
An anonymous Pediatrician on Sermo commented, “I took Chloroquine for a year in southeast Asia to prevent malaria. So did another 3,000,000+ soldiers. I suffered no ill effects and this letter is proof of no death. The dead do not have time for the FDA's randomized clinical trials. Just ask them.”
An anonymous Pediatrician on Sermo commented, “I took Chloroquine for a year in southeast Asia to prevent malaria. So did another 3,000,000+ soldiers. I suffered no ill effects and this letter is proof of no death. The dead do not have time for the FDA's randomized clinical trials. Just ask them.”
I agree with many things you post Boyer, but do you really believe that this is the outcome we are headed for?
Yes, and we could see 15k a day, or 20k a day, or 1k per day, or 8k per day, etc etc.
FWIW, today's release by the IHME model (which is the one being used by the WH Task Force) is predicting a peak of 2,212 per day as of April 12. Is that accurate? Nobody knows.
Clarkston,
looking at my anecdotal daily vision, coupled with the latest IHME update today I don’t see it. Add in the Massachusetts projected deaths going from ~8250 yesterday to 5625 today and only ~320 actual to date and 10 days to peak, there seems to be some serious flaws in the projections. When I look at the UK in the same model the forecast is ~66,000 total deaths they are 9 days from the peak at currently sit just north of 7,050.
looking at my anecdotal daily vision, coupled with the latest IHME update today I don’t see it. Add in the Massachusetts projected deaths going from ~8250 yesterday to 5625 today and only ~320 actual to date and 10 days to peak, there seems to be some serious flaws in the projections. When I look at the UK in the same model the forecast is ~66,000 total deaths they are 9 days from the peak at currently sit just north of 7,050.
I am not a Doctor or a scientist but when more data is compiled and they look backward at this and do antibody testing, etc. asymptomatic people, I believe the true mortality rate will be somewhere around .5 percent. Not saying I am right.
This is a little odd, as pretty much everyone here has heard that hydroxychloroquine is most effective when combined with zinc.
So, the same warnings they'd be giving to anyone else prescribing those drugs for reasons other than COVID?
For those that didn't click into it, the testing was stopped "at least one coronavirus patient " but not stopped overall
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