Thoughts on the continuing Ukraine disaster...six months in

Jerry

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A, B, and C are his basic choices. But D is more and more likely at this point. And D is his removal from office by some method....death, arrest, exile, resignation. And the longer he sticks with C, which seems to be his decision for now, the more likely D becomes.

The Kharkiv rout highlights a few critical things that we sort of knew but have been driven home over the space of two short weeks:

First, Russia's real adversary at this point is headquartered not in Kyiv but rather Washington and Brussels. A flood of Western aid and high-tech weaponry is now providing Ukraine a decisive advantage. For example, I assume the Kharkiv operation was supported by real-time American intelligence and advice.

Second, after months of significant losses, the Russian invasion force is badly overstretched, inadequately equipped, poorly commanded, and seriously demoralized. There've been no battlefield gains in many weeks. The supposed objective of taking the whole of the Donetsk region has not gotten off the ground and may now be doomed by the loss of the entire northern axis to Ukraine.

Third, the leadership in Moscow is in a state of serious disconnect and denial. Putin keeps replacing commanders, but the problem goes deeper than that. Russia's strategy from the beginning has been seriously flawed, undermined by bad intelligence, and based on the spectacularly misguided premise of a quick Ukrainian capitulation. Russia bargained for a short war against Ukraine and instead got a long war against NATO. No commander in history can overcome that kind of miscalculation.

In light of the above three factors, time is now working against the apparent fallback strategy of consolidating gains and digging in for the long haul. I don't think a Russian defeat is imminent, but it may be inevitable unless the plan changes. Even so, as expressed in the OP, I still believe neither Ukraine nor Russia can emerge from this mess a "winner." However, another two weeks like the last two weeks may cause me to rethink that opinion.
 

rutgersdave

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The absence of daily front line reports from journalists on the ground showing Ukrainian advances is a critical intelligence indicator of who is winning the battles in the Donbas.

Ukraine and the western propaganda outlets are projecting all of Ukraine's issues onto Russia and you're lapping it up. They project their war crimes onto Russia (see Bucha) and also their dire situation militarily. Air superiority is another huge factor that you happened to leave out. How many fixed wing, helicopter, drone, etc. aircraft does Ukraine have left? Russia owns the sky which is why they've been steady taking territory even though they are heavily outnumbered.

If putin was such a crazed madman why didn't he immediately order the destruction of all civilian infrastructure (gas, electricity, internet, etc.) back in Feb? Why are most of the non western established countries (including India) not joining the west in condemning putin + sanctions? That's odd huh? I wonder what they know that is being kept out of the western msm? Could it be that Ukraine was being used by the WEF globalist psychos to do dangerous gain of function research in shady biolabs, launder tens of BILLIONS in foreign aid, and God knows what else? Could it be that it was also using actual nazi militias to commit crimes against humanity on ethnic russians in Mariupol, donbass, and other areas and to also go after political opponents? The tribunals starting in Mariupol soon will be very eye opening to many people in the western msm echo chamber.

Ukraine was the deep state's corrupt little playground for years until Trump started snooping around their business so they freaked out and tried to removed him from office just for asking questions. Nothing to see here...

Pbl2yKl.jpg


Swamp rats LOVE them some Ukraine nazis!
52af48d3eab8eaf80f43dd66
(mcstain pictured with and Yatsenyuk (the future installed PM) and Oleh the nazi)
I see WERO206 and Jerry have been quiet since Ukraine offensive has the Russia running away.
 

WeR0206

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I see WERO206 and Jerry have been quiet since Ukraine offensive has the Russia running away.
? Anyone who thinks Putin/Russia would give up so easily is a fool. This thing is far from over and Russia still has air superiority and way more tanks, men, etc.. You should probably pump the breaks on doing a victory lap.
 

rutgersdave

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? Anyone who thinks Putin/Russia would give up so easily is a fool. This thing is far from over and Russia still has air superiority and way more tanks, men, etc.. You should probably pump the breaks on doing a victory lap.
You mean you now believe Ukraine offensive is working and your BS stories are lies. I don’t think Russia giving up so easily but Putin has to make some tough decisions. I just hope he doesn’t take out his nuclear arsenal.

If there was no nuclear threat, the Ukrainians would be occupying Moscow.
 
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Jerry

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I see WERO206 and Jerry have been quiet since Ukraine offensive has the Russia running away.

Yeah, quiet except for, like, a dozen detailed posts I did on the topic...the most recent being three days ago.

But don't let reality interfere with your blathering, Dave.
 
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WeR0206

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You mean you now believe Ukraine offensive is working and your BS stories are lies. I don’t think Russia giving up so easily but Putin has to make some tough decisions. I just hope he doesn’t take out his nuclear arsenal.

If there was no nuclear threat, the Ukrainians would be occupying Moscow.


I am not making this up. There is a growing conviction in many eminent circles in the United States and Europe, who believe and embrace this article from Business Insider–The army Putin spent 2 decades building has been largely destroyed in Ukraine, and Russia’s ‘strategic defeat’ could threaten his regime.

Only when you read the article and examine the “experts” consulted do you realize this is more delusional nonsense devoid of evidence. Here is the claim by George Barros:

“Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has been a strategic defeat. So far the Kremlin has not been able to achieve its strategic level objectives and it has incurred significant costs. Russia’s military is going to have to be rebuilt,” George Barros, a military analyst with the Institute for the Study of War (ISW), told Insider.
This dude must have tons of military experience to reach this stunning conclusion. Right? WRONG!!

George Barros is a geospatial analyst on the Russia and Ukraine portfolio at the Institute for the Study of War. His work focuses on Russian information operations, the Kremlin’s campaigns in Ukraine and Belarus, and Ukrainian politics. George received his B.A. with Honors in International Relations and Global Studies with a concentration in Russian and Post-Soviet Studies from the College of William & Mary. Prior to joining ISW, he worked in the U.S. House of Representatives as an advisor on Ukraine and Russia for a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee.
Barros has zero military experience and apparently learned nothing at William and Mary about Russia during his time there.

So let us consider some actual facts:

  1. Russia and its allies captured the major industrial port city of Mariupol from frontline Ukrainian troops and are still in full control of that city.
  2. Russia and its allies expelled the Ukrainian Army from the Luhansk Republic and are in full control there.
  3. Russia and its allies are continuing to retake cities and villages in the Donetsk Republic and pushing Ukraine to the west.
  4. Russia carried out a tactical retreat from the Kharkiv Oblast and moved those forces to the Donetsk region. Yes, they surrendered territory. They retreated.
  5. During the current offensive, according to Ukrainian sources, Ukrainian troops are suffering at least 5 times the casualties of Russia and its allies.
  6. Russia’s Air Force is intact and has suffered minimal losses while Ukraine’s Air Force has been erased.
  7. Russia is producing its own missiles, rockets and artillery shells and is not dependent on another country to continue its fire missions while Ukraine is totally dependent, now, on western supplies.
  8. In its current offensive in the Kharkiv oblast Ukraine has failed to carry out an operation in depth–its attacks have been confined to the frontlines while Russia’s artillery and missiles continue to rain down on exposed Ukrainian troops.
These facts are totally ignored by the author of the Business Insider piece (i.e., John Haltiwanger), who accepts uncritically the unsupported claims by his sources. Consider these whoppers:

A recent intelligence update from the British defense ministry said that the elite 1st Guards Tank Army and other Western Military District units have suffered heavy casualties, indicating that “Russia’s conventional force designed to counter NATO is severely weakened.” The ministry added that “it will likely take years for Russia to rebuild this capability.”
The Russian military has also seen the damage, destruction, and abandonment of astonishing amounts of equipment in Ukraine. It is estimated to have lost thousands of armored vehicles since the war began in late February. These losses have forced the Russian military to resort to pulling obsolete, Soviet-era equipment, such as T-62 tanks, out of storage.
Haltiwanger apparently does not know how to use Google. Russia is using its T90 tanks in Donetsk. Not exactly a relic of the Cold War. Haltiwanger also forgot to ask whether or not Russian factories that produce tanks are still operating and turning out replacements every week. Guess what? Russia does not have to wait years to rebuild a force supposedly eliminated.

Remember during the first few weeks of the war the exploits of that incredible Ukrainian pilot–aka the Ghost of Kiev–who downed several Russian fighter jets? Yeah, that was a lie but it was eagerly gobbled up by western pundits, media and politicians.

Let me ask this simple question. Who destroyed the “elite 1st Guards Tank Army?” And what weapons did the attackers use to destroy that tank army? Ukraine has no combat air or rotary wing force. Their artillery, even supplemented with HIMARS, is very limited in part because of scant supplies of shells. Did a group of NINJA Ukrainians sneak up on the unsuspecting Russian tank army and take them all out with the spotty Javelin’s? Just asking.

Unlike Ukraine, Russia’s Ministry of Defense provides a daily briefing on the Ukrainian units it is hitting, including their locations and detailing the equipment destroyed. Ukraine has not provided any detailed briefing like this:

Massive fire attacks have resulted in causing casualties ( ) of up to 500 servicemen and over 40 units of military equipment of 24th and 28th AFU mechanised brigades near Krasnoye Znamya and Novogrigorovka (Nikolayev region), as well as of 46th Airmobile Brigade of the AFU near Sukhoy Stavok and Belogorka (Kherson region).
High-precision air attacks launched at the provisional bases of 116th Territorial Defence Brigade and Omega special detachment near Odnorobovka and Kharkov (Kharkov region) have resulted in the elimination of up to 30 Ukrainian servicemen ( ) and 10 units of military equipment.
image-13-1024x576.png

If these are lies it should be easily refuted by western journalists. That has not happened.

So, with all of this dire news about the devastated Russian Army pouring in, I imagine that Vladimir Putin was curled up in the fetal position in his office, sobbing uncontrollably and begging for a bottle of vodka (Polish vodka at that) to drown his sorrow.. Right?

Nope, Putin was in Samarkand meeting with world leaders from other countries. Pretty strange behavior for a man whose political future is dead because of the ass-kicking delivered by Ukraine. In fact, he even had time to meet with his Chinese counterpart:

In his first meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin since the start of the Ukraine conflict earlier this year, Xi Jinping said that China was willing to work with Russia as “great powers”, AFP reported. The two leaders met in Uzbekistan ahead of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) summit in Samarkand, which kicks off from September 16.
In the meeting, Putin condemned “attempts to create unipolar world” and praised China’s “balanced” position on the Ukraine crisis.
The participation of Chinese President Xi Jinping in the summit has created a buzz as he has not attended any global event out of China in more than two years over Covid concerns.
Looks like a major intelligence failure in China because President Xi Jinping was not informed that Putin is on his way out. Normally, a Chinese official of Xi’s stature would not want to be seen anywhere near someone whose political career is swirling down the toilet.

There may be another explanation–the western sources are liars. After years of insisting there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and that United States defeated the Taliban in Afghanistan, why would these guys lie about something were the very future of NATO may be at stake? If Joe Biden and his cronies say it is so, take it to the bank. They have.
 
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Hotshoe

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You mean you now believe Ukraine offensive is working and your BS stories are lies. I don’t think Russia giving up so easily but Putin has to make some tough decisions. I just hope he doesn’t take out his nuclear arsenal.

If there was no nuclear threat, the Ukrainians would be occupying Moscow.
Yeah, Ukraine is going to March right into Moscow. Hitler thought the same.
 

2lion70

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Putin is a putz and terrible military strategist. His military is losing badly and Putin and a lot of his army are war criminals and deserving of the same treatment the German leaders received at Nurenberg.
 

The Spin Meister

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I am not making this up. There is a growing conviction in many eminent circles in the United States and Europe, who believe and embrace this article from Business Insider–The army Putin spent 2 decades building has been largely destroyed in Ukraine, and Russia’s ‘strategic defeat’ could threaten his regime.

Only when you read the article and examine the “experts” consulted do you realize this is more delusional nonsense devoid of evidence. Here is the claim by George Barros:


This dude must have tons of military experience to reach this stunning conclusion. Right? WRONG!!


Barros has zero military experience and apparently learned nothing at William and Mary about Russia during his time there.

So let us consider some actual facts:

  1. Russia and its allies captured the major industrial port city of Mariupol from frontline Ukrainian troops and are still in full control of that city.
  2. Russia and its allies expelled the Ukrainian Army from the Luhansk Republic and are in full control there.
  3. Russia and its allies are continuing to retake cities and villages in the Donetsk Republic and pushing Ukraine to the west.
  4. Russia carried out a tactical retreat from the Kharkiv Oblast and moved those forces to the Donetsk region. Yes, they surrendered territory. They retreated.
  5. During the current offensive, according to Ukrainian sources, Ukrainian troops are suffering at least 5 times the casualties of Russia and its allies.
  6. Russia’s Air Force is intact and has suffered minimal losses while Ukraine’s Air Force has been erased.
  7. Russia is producing its own missiles, rockets and artillery shells and is not dependent on another country to continue its fire missions while Ukraine is totally dependent, now, on western supplies.
  8. In its current offensive in the Kharkiv oblast Ukraine has failed to carry out an operation in depth–its attacks have been confined to the frontlines while Russia’s artillery and missiles continue to rain down on exposed Ukrainian troops.
These facts are totally ignored by the author of the Business Insider piece (i.e., John Haltiwanger), who accepts uncritically the unsupported claims by his sources. Consider these whoppers:


Haltiwanger apparently does not know how to use Google. Russia is using its T90 tanks in Donetsk. Not exactly a relic of the Cold War. Haltiwanger also forgot to ask whether or not Russian factories that produce tanks are still operating and turning out replacements every week. Guess what? Russia does not have to wait years to rebuild a force supposedly eliminated.

Remember during the first few weeks of the war the exploits of that incredible Ukrainian pilot–aka the Ghost of Kiev–who downed several Russian fighter jets? Yeah, that was a lie but it was eagerly gobbled up by western pundits, media and politicians.

Let me ask this simple question. Who destroyed the “elite 1st Guards Tank Army?” And what weapons did the attackers use to destroy that tank army? Ukraine has no combat air or rotary wing force. Their artillery, even supplemented with HIMARS, is very limited in part because of scant supplies of shells. Did a group of NINJA Ukrainians sneak up on the unsuspecting Russian tank army and take them all out with the spotty Javelin’s? Just asking.

Unlike Ukraine, Russia’s Ministry of Defense provides a daily briefing on the Ukrainian units it is hitting, including their locations and detailing the equipment destroyed. Ukraine has not provided any detailed briefing like this:


image-13-1024x576.png

If these are lies it should be easily refuted by western journalists. That has not happened.

So, with all of this dire news about the devastated Russian Army pouring in, I imagine that Vladimir Putin was curled up in the fetal position in his office, sobbing uncontrollably and begging for a bottle of vodka (Polish vodka at that) to drown his sorrow.. Right?

Nope, Putin was in Samarkand meeting with world leaders from other countries. Pretty strange behavior for a man whose political future is dead because of the ass-kicking delivered by Ukraine. In fact, he even had time to meet with his Chinese counterpart:


Looks like a major intelligence failure in China because President Xi Jinping was not informed that Putin is on his way out. Normally, a Chinese official of Xi’s stature would not want to be seen anywhere near someone whose political career is swirling down the toilet.

There may be another explanation–the western sources are liars. After years of insisting there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and that United States defeated the Taliban in Afghanistan, why would these guys lie about something were the very future of NATO may be at stake? If Joe Biden and his cronies say it is so, take it to the bank. They have.
Pretty funny stuff there. Keep Putin the lipstick on that pig.
 
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WeR0206

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Pretty funny stuff there. Keep Putin on the lipstick on that pig.
The pig with lipstick is Ukraine. It’s a corrupt cesspool that doesn’t allow political opposition and condones political assassinations…Russia on steroids.

 

The Spin Meister

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The pig with lipstick is Ukraine. It’s a corrupt cesspool that doesn’t allow political opposition and condones political assassinations…Russia on steroids.

Both countries are pretty bad. But the reference was to how the war has progressed and your post about it. Putin on the Lipstick
 

WeR0206

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Both countries are pretty bad. But the reference was to how the war has progressed and your post about it. Putin on the Lipstick
Lulz! Hows the Ukrainian air force doing these days? How are their artillery supplies and trained reserves holding up? Oh wait they hardly have any of those things left while russia has them in spades. Taylor swift will never beat Mike Tyson in the ring.
 

The Kid Twist

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Lulz! Hows the Ukrainian air force doing these days? How are their artillery supplies and trained reserves holding up? Oh wait they hardly have any of those things left while russia has them in spades. Taylor swift will never beat Mike Tyson in the ring.
LOL! Dude PUTIN is emptying his prisons to get troops!!! That is A BAD SIGN!! The Russians are getting their asses kicked on all FRONTS! It is getting worse now that the Ukrainians are being trained on US MLRS rocket systems. It is forcing the Russians to retreat on all fronts. The Russian army was a bunch of corrupt, overrated drunks. I wish they would start something with Poland! The Poles would wipe the Russians out in a matter of weeks. I am a former PSU ROTC grad and was Armor/Cavalry officer for over 10 years. The pictures I saw of the captured Russian equipment the Ukrainians were showing after their recent offensive around Kharov shows that was no "Tactical retreat". That was a full-fledged run for your lives and drop whatever equipment you have the Ukrainians are coming!!!! No way these Russian troops try and make it through the winter without any resupply. There will mass desertions even worse that what is going on now. Who would have thought little Ukraine would kick Russia's ass??? They are amazing people!!! Slava Ukraine!!!
 
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WeR0206

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LOL! Dude PUTIN is emptying his prisons to get troops!!! That is A BAD SIGN!! The Russians are getting their asses kicked on all FRONTS! It is getting worse now that the Ukrainians are being trained on US MLRS rocket systems. It is forcing the Russians to retreat on all fronts. The Russian army was a bunch of corrupt, overrated drunks. I wish they would start something with Poland! The Poles would wipe the Russians out in a matter of weeks. I am a former PSU ROTC grad and was Armor/Cavalry officer for over 10 years. The pictures I saw of the captured Russian equipment the Ukrainians were showing after their recent offensive around Kharov shows that was no "Tactical retreat". That was a full-fledged run for your lives and drop whatever equipment you have the Ukrainians are coming!!!! No way these Russian troops try and make it through the winter without any resupply. There will mass desertions even worse that what is going on now. Who would have thought little Ukraine would kick Russia's ass??? They are amazing people!!! Slava Ukraine!!!
This message ^^^ was brought to you by the corrupt msm. What evidence do you have that Putin is emptying his prisons? The msm said so? Haah! That claim makes no sense since Russia has hardly even used any of their own troops yet. Most of the fighting is being done by Chechens and LPR/DPR. You have no clue wtf you’re talking about re: what’s going on over there.
 

The Spin Meister

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This message ^^^ was brought to you by the corrupt msm. What evidence do you have that Putin is emptying his prisons? The msm said so? Haah! That claim makes no sense since Russia has hardly even used any of their own troops yet. Most of the fighting is being done by Chechens and LPR/DPR. You have no clue wtf you’re talking about re: what’s going on over there.
All flights out of Russia full. Twenty mile long line of vehicles at bo with Finland as young men flee the country before being drafted for a war run by a psychopath. Large demonstrations all across the country.

Mop up is going quite well🤦🏻‍♀️
 
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2lion70

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Putin has apparently taken up residence at a cabin in the mountains. Seems he's afraid to be seen in Moscow due to the success of his great military victories.
 
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WeR0206

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All flights out of Russia full. Twenty mile long line of vehicles at bo with Finland as young men flee the country before being drafted for a war run by a psychopath. Large demonstrations all across the country.

Mop up is going quite well🤦🏻‍♀️
People leaving is expected since the west has openly said they are trying to crush their country. There are also lines for military recruitment offices. What Evidence do you have that Putin is emptying his prisons? On the other hand the Ukrainians are emptying their prisons some of them are people that committed mass murder and you don’t view that as any kind of sign of their weakness.
 

JeffClear

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Putin is on the ropes and alone, even the Chinese and India are not happy with his war.
Putin acknowledged this openly at the summit and Xi took an indirect shot at Putin when he said it is the responsibility of major powers to promote stability.
Privately the Chinese are saying to Putin that his war makes no logical sense and they want it to end soon.
In addition his economic war on Europe is faltering almost as bad as his army.

Almost as bad because his army is demoralized and in retreat.
Putin is desperate and is trying to hold onto the territory he has left with bogus referendums and threats of nuclear war if the Ukraine tries to take them back.
Meanwhile in Ukraine, optimism is high that they will win and there is overwhelming support for not giving up any territory to the Russians in exchange for peace.
But these are dangerous times, Putin might lash out and use a tactical nuke, probably the only reason why he hasn't already is the Chinese would abandon him if he did.
The threat of nuclear weapon being used now is probably the highest since the Cuban missile crisis.
But we can't let Putin win and it appears he won't. His mobilization will fail and once more Russian sons come home in body bags his position at home will weaken even more.
Don't forget even the hard liners in Russia are t happy with Putin right now, his position seems to be worsening daily.
 

Jerry

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So Jake Sullivan, Senile Joe's National Security Adviser, this morning solemnly warned that Russia will face "catastrophic consequences" if it uses a nuclear weapon in Ukraine.

Like, the pencil-necked Wokeist geek appears oblivious to the fact that if we inflict "catastrophic consequences" on Russia, we're likely to suffer "catastrophic consequences" in return.

It's a scary thing, the blind arrogance of Jake and his friends as they merrily drive the bus toward the cliff. Their passengers: the entire American population.

Meanwhile, you look at the Google news feed and see an echo chamber of brainwashed propaganda organs all repeating the Regime-dictated Party Line to one another: Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

But there are larger forces at work here, of which Jake Sullivan and his ilk are unaware. At this point, I seriously am inclined to believe the course toward the cliff and Jake's "catastrophic consequences" can't be changed.
 

JeffClear

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So Jake Sullivan, Senile Joe's National Security Adviser, this morning solemnly warned that Russia will face "catastrophic consequences" if it uses a nuclear weapon in Ukraine.

Like, the pencil-necked Wokeist geek appears oblivious to the fact that if we inflict "catastrophic consequences" on Russia, we're likely to suffer "catastrophic consequences" in return.

It's a scary thing, the blind arrogance of Jake and his friends as they merrily drive the bus toward the cliff. Their passengers: the entire American population.

Meanwhile, you look at the Google news feed and see an echo chamber of brainwashed propaganda organs all repeating the Regime-dictated Party Line to one another: Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

But there are larger forces at work here, of which Jake Sullivan and his ilk are unaware. At this point, I seriously am inclined to believe the course toward the cliff and Jake's "catastrophic consequences" can't be changed.
Catastrophic consequences has always been the threat against the use of nuclear weapons.
I think the only differences now is the Biden administration isn't promising to strike Russia with nukes if they hit Ukraine with a tactical nuke
The threat now is that nato will get directly involved in the war if Russia uses a nuke.
It's still scary stuff though and it could lead to a global disaster.
But there really is no other option, Putin has to be stopped, because if he isn't, Poland and the Baltic states could be next.
The Chinese will not be happy with Putin if he uses a nuke, if he does I think it would be as a last resort, and the end is near for him and he used one as a Hail Mary pass to save his own neck.
 

rumble_lion

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LOL! Dude PUTIN is emptying his prisons to get troops!!! That is A BAD SIGN!! The Russians are getting their asses kicked on all FRONTS! It is getting worse now that the Ukrainians are being trained on US MLRS rocket systems. It is forcing the Russians to retreat on all fronts. The Russian army was a bunch of corrupt, overrated drunks. I wish they would start something with Poland! The Poles would wipe the Russians out in a matter of weeks. I am a former PSU ROTC grad and was Armor/Cavalry officer for over 10 years. The pictures I saw of the captured Russian equipment the Ukrainians were showing after their recent offensive around Kharov shows that was no "Tactical retreat". That was a full-fledged run for your lives and drop whatever equipment you have the Ukrainians are coming!!!! No way these Russian troops try and make it through the winter without any resupply. There will mass desertions even worse that what is going on now. Who would have thought little Ukraine would kick Russia's ass??? They are amazing people!!! Slava Ukraine!!!

The pictures I saw of the captured Russian equipment the Ukrainians were showing after their recent offensive around Kharov shows that was no "Tactical retreat". That was a full-fledged run for your lives and drop whatever equipment you have the Ukrainians are coming!!!!

Ahem, that's how the Russians mop up.
 

Jerry

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Catastrophic consequences has always been the threat against the use of nuclear weapons.
I think the only differences now is the Biden administration isn't promising to strike Russia with nukes if they hit Ukraine with a tactical nuke
The threat now is that nato will get directly involved in the war if Russia uses a nuke.
It's still scary stuff though and it could lead to a global disaster.
But there really is no other option, Putin has to be stopped, because if he isn't, Poland and the Baltic states could be next.
The Chinese will not be happy with Putin if he uses a nuke, if he does I think it would be as a last resort, and the end is near for him and he used one as a Hail Mary pass to save his own neck.

There was another option, Jeff, but now it's too late.

Our fearless leaders put us in this mess and keep doubling down...because that's what they do on everything. They own the propaganda organs and know they'll never be held to account. This fuels their arrogance.

But this time they have made a fatal error and may finally be held to account. Unfortunately, the rest of of us will also have to pay the price.
 

JeffClear

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There was another option, Jeff, but now it's too late.

Our fearless leaders put us in this mess and keep doubling down...because that's what they do on everything. They own the propaganda organs and know they'll never be held to account. This fuels their arrogance.

But this time they have made a fatal error and may finally be held to account. Unfortunately, the rest of of us will also have to pay the price.
I disagree, I think the conflict between nato and Russia over Ukraine is a conflict of world views.
NATO believes Ukraine is a sovereign nation and has the right to choose its own friends.
While Putin views the Ukraine as a part of the Russian orbit.
He also views the USA and NATO as rivals and the Ukraine can never be a part of club USA/ NATO.
Putin wanted an iron clad promise that Ukraine would NEVER join NATO, which is completely ridiculous and violates the sovereign rights of both nato and Ukraine.