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Thoughts after sleeping on it one night........

KnightWhoSaysNit said:
OK, I'll bite, since I don't follow the NFL closely anymore. (Can't stand the prima donna lack of discipline, the tattoos, the look-at-me shows, and the long hair.)

Who are these QB's that are at the pinnacle of both running and passing ability? When I mean "run" I don't mean "scramble" to avoid contact, or a situational play on occasion. Have these QBs been doing it for a long time to demonstrate this as a viable approach to using a franchise QB?

The great passers in my mind have been guys like Favre, Marino, Brady, Manning, Roethlisberger, Brees, and so on. Some of these guys could run, but they were not used as runners. These are not guys putting their head down as ball carriers against NFL defenses, at least not to any great extent. If there are QBs out there now that really are being used as runners in a QB run option offense, then it must be a new thing, or they are doing it to the detriment of passing. Despite rules changing to favor passing, these guys are not on any all-time leading passer lists. And I wouldn't expect them to get there either, before they get banged up.

When your head and shoulders are taking a pounding something is being given up in your ability to throw. The run isn't free to someone who must think, keep their wits, read defenses, and throw accurately. If you run a lot as a QB, I'd say that a true passing pinnacle has not actually been achieved. You may be helping the team with that run, or so it would seem, but it doesn't come for free. It comes at the cost of something else that you may not be able to definitively quantify.

Robert Griffin III is a classic case of what can happen when you run your quarterback, to illustrate an extreme of what I'm saying here.

Maybe rules are changing to the point that you can't tackle the QB anymore. Then it would make sense.
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there is a difference between the RPO and the read option game. As you know, RPO stands for run pass options. There are 2 kinds of RPOs, pre snap and post snap.
In a pre snap the play call may be some run to the right with a WR screen to the left. if the screen is there, the QB will just rise up and throw it out there, while the OL and RB's run the running play.
in a post snap RPO, the offense tries to isolate a 'conflict' defender, that might be the 7/8th guy in the box. So while the QB reads this guy,and if he stays back for pass,the QB hands the ball off, the D crashes on the run, throw the ball into the hole he just left. The OL blocks a run play, the QB decides what to do with the ball post snap.
If you read the article that was linked, you can see Andy Reid's coaching tree has a lot of RPO's , KC, Eagles, Indy, and now the Bears. I am pretty sure the Rams are running it as well plus a few others.
This offense doesn't really put the QB in harms way
In the QB read offense, this is where they leave a guy unblocked, and the QB 'reads' him, and these are the guys getting hit, And you are correct relative to RGIII. Most people wouldn't leave a $30 million computer out in the rain unprotected, the same ,your $30 mil QB can't be left unprotected either.

Now relative to PSU offense, we do some of all three (pre and post snap pro, QB reads) The thing that I do not like about our schemes is how we block for runs. We use man blocking. I am more of a zone blocker. That is, I want 2 double teams at the hole, and then come off to get to the second level. Watch the pros, most do it that way. It isn't anything new, and I think it would clean up 1000 of our problems. If we had blocked the last play vs OSU that way in 17 or 18 the RB would have hit his head on the goal post.

here's a break down from 2016, note the second play is more of the QB read/run variety
 
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I even think our coaches should watch this video as Pederson is doing wonderful things with Wentz in this style of play. I think we need to move more towards this as Clifford is more a passer then a runner in my opinion.
 
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Sooner Lion said:
  1. Michigan State punted the ball with 1:48 left in the game. This is the ultimate insult to your OC.
  2. Saban had the balls to pull his starting QB in last years title game. Stevens should have seen a few series in this game.
  3. Franklin needs to shelf his CEO approach and get involved in the decision making during the game.
  4. We have 2 rookie coordinators. Not sure either could find a job at a top program. Franklin needs to learn what got him here, will not get him there. We need to hire proven - elite coordinators.
  5. Taylor should have gone the distance on the INT return. A lineman tripped him up.
  6. Parsons has no idea what he is doing at LB.
  7. RPO is a gimmick offense. We need to get back to the pro set and get linemen that can be physical. Our OL is so soft. I hate the RPO. Yes, we'll break a play or two every game, but it is not an offense that we can count on come Oct and Nov in the Big Ten. RPO is gimmick plain and simple.
  8. Franklin does not have it on game day. Plain and simple. He mentioned in the post game yesterday situational football. F situational football. We don't pay the HC millions to coach situational football.
  9. I am pissed.
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After reading 1 through 8, I am not surprised to see #9.
 
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Sooner Lion said:
  1. Michigan State punted the ball with 1:48 left in the game. This is the ultimate insult to your OC.
  2. Saban had the balls to pull his starting QB in last years title game. Stevens should have seen a few series in this game.
  3. Franklin needs to shelf his CEO approach and get involved in the decision making during the game.
  4. We have 2 rookie coordinators. Not sure either could find a job at a top program. Franklin needs to learn what got him here, will not get him there. We need to hire proven - elite coordinators.
  5. Taylor should have gone the distance on the INT return. A lineman tripped him up.
  6. Parsons has no idea what he is doing at LB.
  7. RPO is a gimmick offense. We need to get back to the pro set and get linemen that can be physical. Our OL is so soft. I hate the RPO. Yes, we'll break a play or two every game, but it is not an offense that we can count on come Oct and Nov in the Big Ten. RPO is gimmick plain and simple.
  8. Franklin does not have it on game day. Plain and simple. He mentioned in the post game yesterday situational football. F situational football. We don't pay the HC millions to coach situational football.
  9. I am pissed.
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Being pissed, the urine is clouding you vision.
 
Pennstate4life said:
Yes! For all especially #1. When they did that, I looked @ my wife and said they have zero respect for our offense by doing that. And we made them look like geniuses by promptly going 3 and out
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Book is out on James. He'll melt with a lead late.
 
sluggo72 said:
there is a difference between the RPO and the read option game. As you know, RPO stands for run pass options. There are 2 kinds of RPOs, pre snap and post snap.
In a pre snap the play call may be some run to the right with a WR screen to the left. if the screen is there, the QB will just rise up and throw it out there, while the OL and RB's run the running play.
in a post snap RPO, the offense tries to isolate a 'conflict' defender, that might be the 7/8th guy in the box. So while the QB reads this guy,and if he stays back for pass,the QB hands the ball off, the D crashes on the run, throw the ball into the hole he just left. The OL blocks a run play, the QB decides what to do with the ball post snap.
If you read the article that was linked, you can see Andy Reid's coaching tree has a lot of RPO's , KC, Eagles, Indy, and now the Bears. I am pretty sure the Rams are running it as well plus a few others.
This offense doesn't really put the QB in harms way
In the QB read offense, this is where they leave a guy unblocked, and the QB 'reads' him, and these are the guys getting hit, And you are correct relative to RGIII. Most people wouldn't leave a $30 million computer out in the rain unprotected, the same ,your $30 mil QB can't be left unprotected either.

Now relative to PSU offense, we do some of all three (pre and post snap pro, QB reads) The thing that I do not like about our schemes is how we block for runs. We use man blocking. I am more of a zone blocker. That is, I want 2 double teams at the hole, and then come off to get to the second level. Watch the pros, most do it that way. It isn't anything new, and I think it would clean up 1000 of our problems. If we had blocked the last play vs OSU that way in 17 or 18 the RB would have hit his head on the goal post.

here's a break down from 2016, note the second play is more of the QB read/run variety
Click to expand...

Thanks for the nice response. To me an offense that runs the QB as a matter of course (as I think ours does) comes with hidden costs and risks. In application, I don't see this at the professional level. Though I was not able to use the right terms, this is really all that I was trying to communicate.

Don't remember his exact words, but when he was rather new at PSU Franklin said that the NFL was trending towards running quarterbacks. I remember this because I was a little shocked. I don't remember his using "RPO," though that was obviously part of his offensive vision. He was stressing that his QBs needed a willingness to run the football, and that our system would be good preparation for the NFL.

I gathered at the time that this meant he would recruit "dual threat" (McSorley) rather than "pro style" (Hackenberg) QBs. Running the QB (post Donovan) would be expected. I did not agree with the NFL part of his contention. As you said, NFL teams are not going to risk their franchise investment. They look first for prolific passers in the draft. So, after hearing this I wondered whether we would get the best passers, and whether we would prepare them well for the next level. Clifford's commitment then came as a surprise. An offer to Levis was a bigger surprise, as was his SPARQ score.

Clifford's footwork and delivery seem refined for his age, but he's not built like a Michael Robinson. I cringe at the thought of getting him roughed up.

We'll see how it goes once Trace moves on. I expect little change with Stevens at the helm next year, but when it's Clifford's time I hope we make the right offensive adjustments.
 
stormingnorm said:
It’s not that people don’t like you..... it’s just the stupidity that turns them off. :)
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I appreciate Sluggo's response. Your response leaves me with the thought of only one word -- condescending.

Guess I'm too stupid to understand why you would put a smiley face after remarks like that.
 
ILLINOISLION said:
AND we were T H I S V E R Y C L O S E to also having lost to Iowa last year, also giving up a late 4th quarter lead in a game that we totally dominated.
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For some strange reason, it seems to be a yearly trademark of this team that they lack the killer instinct to put teams away with a lead. When the foot is on the windpipe, you crush it, don't just be content to keep the opponent down. It's not like we're losing every close game, but God, when you are playing an inferior opponent, PUT THEM OUT OF THEIR MISERY AND BE DONE WITH IT. As much as we belittle the SEC here, how many "close" games has Alabama lost the last few years other than the Auburn game 2 or 3 years ago?
 
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LaJolla Lion said:
Like UW and Iowa last year, Minny and tOSU the year before.....oh wait...only the losses count. Next.
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They gave up a late lead to Iowa and they won a game by 7 that they one point led by 21. If Pettis knew how much time was on the clock and doesn’t lateral the game away Washington would have had a shot to tie it on the last play and the game should have never gotten to that point. Like James Franklin said, wins are deodorant that cover up the funk. There was funk at the end of both games despite the ultimate outcomes.

Maybe if they finished the fiesta bowl strong and completed the blowout instead of clinging on at the end that experience would have carried over to this season.
 
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fastlax16 said:
They gave up a late lead to Iowa and they won a game by 7 that they one point led by 21. If Pettis knew how much time was on the clock and doesn’t lateral the game away Washington would have had a shot to tie it on the last play and the game should have never gotten to that point. Like James Franklin said, wins are deodorant that cover up the funk. There was funk at the end of both games despite the ultimate outcomes.

Maybe if they finished the fiesta bowl strong and completed the blowout instead of clinging on at the end that experience would have carried over to this season.
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Huhhhh, they won the games. Iowa and UW didn't do enough late like PSU didn't this weekend. Peterson and Ferentz must be idiots to lose to a slob like Franklin I guess. You cannot have it both ways. Not every game will be a blowout so little things late will decide games. What about USC instead of taking it to OT, he pushed for the W and got picked off...lost the game. Let me know when you find that coach that never loses a game late or to a team they shouldn't. Outside of the you get a Dodge when you sign your LOI...aka Bama, all teams lose games they should not.

If you don't realize there will be close W's and L's no matter the coach or year, then that is really on you. I cannot help you there. When was the last time PSU went to back to back BCS bowls? When is the last time they had a top 5 recruiting class...2005? Yeah....I really hate what Frankin is doing for PSU. The loss was a bad one, but some people need to look at the GD big picture once in a while. Pull it away from your nose...more than an inch and take a look.
 
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LaJolla Lion said:
Huhhhh, they won the games. Iowa and UW didn't do enough late like PSU didn't this weekend. Peterson and Ferentz must be idiots to lose to a slob like Franklin I guess. You cannot have it both ways. Not every game will be a blowout so little things late will decide games. What about USC instead of taking it to OT, he pushed for the W and got picked off...lost the game. Let me know when you find that coach that never loses a game late or to a team they shouldn't. Outside of the you get a Dodge when you sign your LOI...aka Bama, all teams lose games they should not.

If you don't realize there will be close W's and L's no matter the coach or year, then that is really on you. I cannot help you there. When was the last time PSU went to back to back BCS bowls? When is the last time they had a top 5 recruiting class...2005? Yeah....I really hate what Frankin is doing for PSU. The loss was a bad one, but some people need to look at the GD big picture once in a while. Pull it away from your nose...more than an inch and take a look.
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I like Franklin. So you think both of those games were flawless and there were no takeaways to work on?

If you think giving a team a shot to tie a game on their last drive after you were up 21 points means you closed out the game strong you can’t be helped.

“You’re never as good as you think you are when you win.”
 
fastlax16 said:
I like Franklin. So you think both of those games were flawless and there were no takeaways to work on?

If you think giving a team a shot to tie a game on their last drive after you were up 21 points means you closed out the game strong you can’t be helped.

“You’re never as good as you think you are when you win.”
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Every coach makes bad decisions....even in the W's. Hell Amani O catches that pick and half of the criticism goes away. There is no perfect coach and PSU's roster isn't Bama's so if they aren't up and make mistakes, they can lose to anyone on the schedule. I've seen Sean Payton win and lose close games late being conservative and ultr aggressive...he's not an idiot one week and brilliant the next. People tend to harp on the close L's but I don't remember too much fire everyone when they beat Iowa last year late or tOSU late or Wisky to win the BT title. Funny how that works.
 
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LaJolla Lion said:
Every coach makes bad decisions....even in the W's. Hell Amani O catches that pick and half of the criticism goes away. There is no perfect coach and PSU's roster isn't Bama's so if they aren't up and make mistakes, they can lose to anyone on the schedule. I've seen Sean Payton win and lose close games late being conservative and ultr aggressive...he's not an idiot one week and brilliant the next. People tend to harp on the close L's but I don't remember too much fire everyone when they beat Iowa last year late or tOSU late or Wisky to win the BT title. Funny how that works.
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It’s just funny to cite two games as solid late game performances when one involved a blown lead where the defense gave up a 3 play 80 yard touchdown drive with under two minutes left and the other was another situation where a first down wins the game, the offense doesn’t get it and the opponent has a chance to drive to tie/win late after Penn state surrendered a multi touchdown lead.

Again, if you think both of those don’t gave cause for concern because Penn state ultimately won then you’re hopeless. Again, the win covers up the funk.
 
fastlax16 said:
It’s just funny to cite two games as solid late game performances when one involved a blown lead where the defense gave up a 3 play 80 yard touchdown drive with under two minutes left and the other was another situation where a first down wins the game, the offense doesn’t get it and the opponent has a chance to drive to tie/win late after Penn state surrendered a multi touchdown lead.

Again, if you think both of those don’t gave cause for concern because Penn state ultimately won then you’re hopeless. Again, the win covers up the funk.
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Can you tell me about this fantasy team you are talking about the never loses late games or leads? Even Saban has. I've seen Belichick do this as well, so please just reference your team that never missed getting a first down to close out a game or never once gave up a game winning drive. Apparently you must think every team and coach ever is hopeless unless you have some magical team or coach that nobody else on the planet is aware of.

If you think PSU is heading in the wrong direction, just say that. If not, you're basically still a little butt hurt over the loss which I get. I'm not saying this was JF's best job, but maybe some are totally overblowing some things...nahh, fans never do that. :rolleyes: I was in the stands for the FSU/Clemson game the year Dabo won it all....Clemson fans around me late in the game....we'll never win anything with Dabo as our HC. Good f--king call guys...that is what this board sounds like at times.
 
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LaJolla Lion said:
Can you tell me about this fantasy team you are talking about the never loses late games or leads? Even Saban has. I've seen Belichick do this as well, so please just reference your team that never missed getting a first down to close out a game or never once gave up a game winning drive. Apparently you must think every team and coach ever is hopeless unless you have some magical team or coach that nobody else on the planet is aware of.

If you think PSU is heading in the wrong direction, just say that. If not, you're basically still a little butt hurt over the loss which I get. I'm not saying this was JF's best job, but maybe some are totally overblowing some things...nahh, fans never do that. :rolleyes:
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Why does this criticism bother you so much? I just said they blew a late lead in one game and came close to blowing a late lead in another after being up multiple touchdowns by allowing their opponent to have a chance to tie on the last drive. Neither of these are inaccurate observations. I’m glad they won the games, I’m not calling for franklins job, I don’t think there’s another coach who would have the team better positioned moving forward. I said they still have room to improve.

If Penn state goes up by 21 on rutgers and ultimately wins by 7 with Rutgers getting the ball last with a chance to tie, would that be a good win or would there be things to work on?
 
fastlax16 said:
Why does this criticism bother you so much? I just said they blew a late lead in one game and came close to blowing a late lead. Neither of these are inaccurate observations. I’m glad they won the games, I’m not calling for franklins job, I don’t think there’s another coach who would have the team better positioned moving forward. I said they still have room to improve.
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Criticism is fine and is certainly warranted after that loss but look at the OP in this thread and tell me that is well thought out. If you think it is...I'll disagree.
 
LaJolla Lion said:
Criticism is fine and is certainly warranted after that loss but look at the OP in this thread and tell me that is well thought out. If you think it is...I'll disagree.
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I agree with some points and not others. Some id word differently. What I don’t agree with is the idea that everything needs to be viewed with rose colored glasses and criticizing certain trends, outcomes, results becomes some sort of war cry for people who want to sit there and scream all is well. The “preseason expectations” excuses are also frustrating to hear. As if nothing else matters.

It’d be like Jeff Bezos dying with a million dollars in the bank for whatever reason and someone saying he must have really screwed up to lose all that money and someone else saying that’s wrong, when he was born we didn’t expect him to be more than someone with a million dollars.
 
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fastlax16 said:
I agree with some points and not others. Some id word differently. What I don’t agree with is the idea that everything needs to be viewed with rose colored glasses and criticizing certain trends, outcomes, results becomes some sort of war cry for people who want to sit there and scream all is well. The “preseason expectations” excuses are also frustrating to hear. As if nothing else matters.

It’d be like Jeff Bezos dying with a million dollars in the bank for whatever and someone saying he must have really screwed up to lose all that money and someone else saying that’s wrong, when he was born we didn’t expect him to be more than someone with a million dollars.
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Seriously get yourself a box of kleenex then and have at yourself a week long pity party. There are valid criticisms and then there are people that totally overreact anytime there is a bump in the road. You're butt hurt they lost and need people to know it...well good for you. There are things that the staff screwed up as well as the players, they lost. Thank God we have you to point it out as nobody else saw the game.
 
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LaJolla Lion said:
Seriously get yourself a box of kleenex then and have at yourself a week long pity party. There are valid criticisms and then there are people that totally overreact anytime there is a bump in the road. You're butt hurt they lost and need people to know it...well good for you. There are things that the staff screwed up as well as the players, they lost. Thank God we have you to point it out as nobody else saw the game.
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Apparently a large number of people didn’t watch the game because all is well because this was a 2-3 loss season coming in so that specific outcome was to be expected. Please make a post of your valid criticisms, it’ll be interesting to watch the sunshine pumpers bash you. Also feel free to cite my “overreaction”, I haven’t called for firings, benchings, an investigation into officiating or leaving the conference. There’s an ignore button so feel free to use it.
 
fastlax16 said:
Please make a post of your valid criticisms, it’ll be interesting to watch the sunshine pumpers bash you. Also feel free to cite my “overreaction”, I haven’t called for firings, benchings, and investigation into officiating or leaving the conference. There’s an ignore button so feel free to use it.
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The simple fact you are calling anyone not crying like a fool much like yourself a sunshine pumper kind of says it all. Like all of a sudden the fastlax guy on BWI is the biggest GD expert on the internet and his critcism will bring home some MNC. Maybe just maybe you're taking the loss a little too hard and need to vent....have at it big guy. Like I said get your little box of tissues out and cry with the other guys not jumping off of bridges over this loss.

In terms of criticisms. Some very simple ones and I'm sure this isn't some huge surprise to the staff, but hey you keep thinking you pumping out smoke here does a GD thing champ.
  • Forced the run to much too early against a team with a horrible pass defense.
  • WR screen to slot WR's was there all day long. CB's on the slot gave 15-20 yard cushions...never threw a screen to Hamler there. It was wide open.
  • Under prepared for Dantios fake ST's play even though he has a history of it as an underdog.
  • Dropped INT's happen, but 2 of those were gimmes and seal a W even with the awful play.
  • DL once again gets gassed late and the depth just simply doesn't provide the push it needs once the starters are out.
  • Not getting a late first down bit them in the arse.
  • Not doubling Davis on the last drive bit them in the arse.
  • Lack of halftime adjustments by Rahne and JF on Offense were pretty much a first....usually where they excel.

Maybe I'll post this everyday until the IU game, kick and scream, and act like anyone not being critical is the real problem with PSU football. As the obnoxious critical fans almost always have it right and never overreact.:rolleyes: The whoa is me act was done before and by better...just so you know that and your ignore button isn't broke either BTW.
 
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fastlax16 said:
Apparently a large number of people didn’t watch the game because all is well
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I watched it and have a number of criticisms but what good would it do to post them over and over? I also understand depth is a major issue and that will take time and CJF is well aware of the problem and working on it. Patience is not only a virtue but a necessity moving forward from where we were not long ago
 
LaJolla Lion said:
The simple fact you are calling anyone not crying like a fool much like yourself a sunshine pumper kind of says it all. Like all of a sudden the fastlax guy on BWI is the biggest GD expert on the internet and his critcism will bring home some MNC. Maybe just maybe you're taking the loss a little too hard and need to vent....have at it big guy. Like I said get your little box of tissues out and cry with the other guys not jumping off of bridges over this loss.

In terms of criticisms. Some very simple ones and I'm sure this isn't some huge surprise to the staff, but hey you keep thinking you pumping out smoke here does a GD thing champ.
  • Forced the run to much too early against a team with a horrible pass defense.
  • WR screen to slot WR's was there all day long. CB's on the slot gave 15-20 yard cushions...never threw a screen to Hamler there. It was wide open.
  • Under prepared for Dantios fake ST's play even though he has a history of it as an underdog.
  • Dropped INT's happen, but 2 of those were gimmes and seal a W even with the awful play.
  • DL once again gets gassed late and the depth just simply doesn't provide the push it needs once the starters are out.
  • Not getting a late first down bit them in the arse.
  • Not doubling Davis on the last drive bit them in the arse.
  • Lack of halftime adjustments by Rahne and JF on Offense were pretty much a first....usually where they excel.

Maybe I'll post this everyday until the IU game, kick and scream, and act like anyone not being critical is the real problem with PSU football. As the obnoxious critical fans almost always have it right and never overreact.:rolleyes: The whoa is me act was done before and by better...just so you know that and your ignore button isn't broke either BTW.
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Awesome answer LaJ
 
81b&w said:
I watched it and have a number of criticisms but what good would it do to post them over and over? I also understand depth is a major issue and that will take time and CJF is well aware of the problem and working on it. Patience is not only a virtue but a necessity moving forward from where we were not long ago
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Well that is the thing, apparently Franklin is a moron who didn't know we lost and won't try to correct anything. He needs a free message board to point out the fact that they blew this game as he thought they won it. If anyone here thinks they are more critical of the team and this staff then the HC or the staff itself, they are literally the dumbest people on this site. Nobody on that staff will be thrilled with that loss, but keep thinking our criticism here is what fixes it I guess.
 
LaJolla Lion said:
The simple fact you are calling anyone not crying like a fool much like yourself a sunshine pumper kind of says it all. Like all of a sudden the fastlax guy on BWI is the biggest GD expert on the internet and his critcism will bring home some MNC. Maybe just maybe you're taking the loss a little too hard and need to vent....have at it big guy. Like I said get your little box of tissues out and cry with the other guys not jumping off of bridges over this loss.

In terms of criticisms. Some very simple ones and I'm sure this isn't some huge surprise to the staff, but hey you keep thinking you pumping out smoke here does a GD thing champ.
  • Forced the run to much too early against a team with a horrible pass defense.
  • WR screen to slot WR's was there all day long. CB's on the slot gave 15-20 yard cushions...never threw a screen to Hamler there. It was wide open.
  • Under prepared for Dantios fake ST's play even though he has a history of it as an underdog.
  • Dropped INT's happen, but 2 of those were gimmes and seal a W even with the awful play.
  • DL once again gets gassed late and the depth just simply doesn't provide the push it needs once the starters are out.
  • Not getting a late first down bit them in the arse.
  • Not doubling Davis on the last drive bit them in the arse.
  • Lack of halftime adjustments by Rahne and JF on Offense were pretty much a first....usually where they excel.

Maybe I'll post this everyday until the IU game, kick and scream, and act like anyone not being critical is the real problem with PSU football. As the obnoxious critical fans almost always have it right and never overreact.:rolleyes: The whoa is me act was done before and by better...just so you know that and your ignore button isn't broke either BTW.
Click to expand...

I don’t have a problem with what you’ve posted outside of the personal insults. No fans either way are the problem with psu football. Only way fans become an issue is when they completely abandon the program in droves and you lose support like what is happening in New Brunswick. I haven’t called everyone sunshine pumpers but there are a fair share of them, which is how you get people saying we can lose 3 of then next 4 as long as the one win is Michigan to save the season.
 
sluggo72 said:
there is a difference between the RPO and the read option game. As you know, RPO stands for run pass options. There are 2 kinds of RPOs, pre snap and post snap.
In a pre snap the play call may be some run to the right with a WR screen to the left. if the screen is there, the QB will just rise up and throw it out there, while the OL and RB's run the running play.
in a post snap RPO, the offense tries to isolate a 'conflict' defender, that might be the 7/8th guy in the box. So while the QB reads this guy,and if he stays back for pass,the QB hands the ball off, the D crashes on the run, throw the ball into the hole he just left. The OL blocks a run play, the QB decides what to do with the ball post snap.
If you read the article that was linked, you can see Andy Reid's coaching tree has a lot of RPO's , KC, Eagles, Indy, and now the Bears. I am pretty sure the Rams are running it as well plus a few others.
This offense doesn't really put the QB in harms way
In the QB read offense, this is where they leave a guy unblocked, and the QB 'reads' him, and these are the guys getting hit, And you are correct relative to RGIII. Most people wouldn't leave a $30 million computer out in the rain unprotected, the same ,your $30 mil QB can't be left unprotected either.

Now relative to PSU offense, we do some of all three (pre and post snap pro, QB reads) The thing that I do not like about our schemes is how we block for runs. We use man blocking. I am more of a zone blocker. That is, I want 2 double teams at the hole, and then come off to get to the second level. Watch the pros, most do it that way. It isn't anything new, and I think it would clean up 1000 of our problems. If we had blocked the last play vs OSU that way in 17 or 18 the RB would have hit his head on the goal post.

here's a break down from 2016, note the second play is more of the QB read/run variety
Click to expand...
But the problem with the RPO at the end of the game, trying to get a 1st down to run out the clock is that the P has not been an option as teams know that PSU will be running the ball.
 
4rosco said:
But the problem with the RPO at the end of the game, trying to get a 1st down to run out the clock is that the P has not been an option as teams know that PSU will be running the ball.
Click to expand...
the RPO is not the problem imo. The way we block the run plays is the problem. We need to block 2 double teams at the hole for the run gun. You cant fool all of the people all if the time.
 
Wasn't sure where to put this and didn't want to start a new thread, but good post on TOS about how MSU's D was set up and how we didn't make any adjustments to take advantage. Namely, that they wanted to limit the run and big passing plays. Board regular there gemrich offers the following....

I spent far too much time reviewing this game, and the biggest thing that stood out to me was our not adjusting to what MSU was doing on defense. They came out with a very specific game plan to limit the running game and not let Hamler beat them deep over the middle. They played man on the outside receivers. They played a safety typically 13 yards deep right over Hamler, and they cheated the nickel LB towards the middle to take away the quick slant stuff to Hamler and also allow him to crash hard on run action. That’s all well and good. But it means Hamler is uncovered from where he’s lined up all the way over to the sideline. You just quick hit them to death until they adjust by moving the safety up or moving the LB over or going more zone. I have 15 screen shots of Hamler (or Hipp occasionally) where it’s an obvious quick hitter to KJ or hit him in the flat where no one is there. We did this, wait for it, zero times. If you run a spread offense and a team aligns in that way that’s how you punish them. It’s spread offense 101. We played entire games in years past against teams like Indiana and NW where all they did was take advantage of that exact scenario.

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You can find the original thread (with clickable pics to show how uncovered Hamler was) here:

https://247sports.com/college/penn-...servation-after-reviewing-the-game-123408128/

Also, SIAP, but looks like Franklin wanted to stick with the run, even against a stingy run defense.

 
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81b&w said:
Soo many things sound good in retrospect
Click to expand...


Well, it’s not like BOTH the Hamler and Sanders issues just discussed in the couple of above posts weren’t VERY evident DURING the game.

So yeah, agreed, good in retrospect, but would have been great during the game.
 
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