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The worst part of the C/S/S trials

The take away: Call the police. When you see something or hear something that looks or sounds wrong or off - call 911 and report it.

Every single person involved in this mess could have called 911 and no one did. That is the lesson. Don't talk about it. Don't take it upon yourself to investigate it. Call 911.
 
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Excellent post. One thing to consider. As a former Blue Band member, you get to come back each year for Homecoming and party like a rock star with all of those Blue Band alumnae. Few other board members have that perk. :D

True, but don't let the glamour fool you. The paparazzi make it a difficult weekend.

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The take away: Call the police. When you see something or hear something that looks or sounds wrong or off - call 911 and report it.

Every single person involved in this mess could have called 911 and no one did. That is the lesson. Don't talk about it. Don't take it upon yourself to investigate it. Call 911.

And that is exactly the wrong lesson when you are not the eyewitness and the act is not occuring in your midst. Anyone in the field of child care will tell you that.
 
So breaking into a house and child sexual abuse are one in the same in terms of crimes?

Let me give you a tip. Pull your head out of your ass. Very terrible things happened at the hands of Jerry Sandusky. Lots of people ****ed up, and we'll never know why. Stop trying to rationalize it, stop trying to make it look better, and stop trying to come up with bullshit reasons to explain people's actions.

Heads up, no one accused (formally on the record) JS of child abuse in 98 or in 2001 so consider that and the fact he was viewed as a pillar of the community when evaluating people's actions.

Re: 2001 MM's story is uncorroborated so let's look at the metadata (police report, emails, texts, etc). Outside of the emails (which are far from conclusive unless you're wearing freeh goggles), all we have are 15yr old human recollections bc MM apparently didn't think his 99.9% certainty of child rape was a big enough deal to file an official police report over or even anonymous tip to police/ChildLine or express one iota of displeasure to the admins he trusted to handle his report when he noticed that no one from UPPD ever came to get his statement.

The metadata/lack of UPPD report tells us that MM reported an inappropriate shower that made him feel uncomfortable, not highly suspected child abuse. Any normal rational adult that highly suspects child abuse is going to at least make sure a written statement/report is made to LE, not just be ok with an informal admin/HR investigation.

OTOH, if you werent sure exactly what they were doing in the shower but wanted to make sure someone at psu knew about it, then being ok with an informal admin investigation and fwding the rpt to mandatory reporters at TSM (and then never making a big stink of things when nothing happened to JS) makes perfect sense.
 
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I agree. The mystery is why nothing more was done after Curley talked with both JS & Raykovitz. Curley's e-mail didn't rule out going to authorities. Spanier's e-mail said he was OK with confronting JS but that the message had to be acted upon.

So why did things stop with Raykovitz? Did JS & Raykovitz successfully convince Curley that nothing sexual happened?
The question is why MM never reported further than CS? Why didn't he call police that night? Oh right, he was shellshocked and couldn't process what he had seen, but whatever he told his father and JD, it wasn't enough to call any authorities. Then, after some time, he still did nothing other than report it to CS. Not sure why people keep placing blame with CS considering the ever evolving memory of MM. The blame starts and ends with MM and what he reported, which by his own actions, wasn't much. And of course JS for his actions.
 
Yes, I agree with this. Can't understand why they would talk to Sandusky.

Uhh bc he was a pillar or the community offender who groomed the community for decades to think he'd be the last person to ever hurt a kid. The freaking president of the US acknowledged his charity for crying out loud.

The other explanation, which the state couldn't even prove in court with a stacked deck via the biased jury and 5 yrs to build a case, was there was a conspiracy by the psu admins.

If there was a conspiracy it was at TSM but the state wanted nothing to do with going down that path for obvious reasons (TSM failures roll up on the OAG).
 
Heads up, no one accused (formally on the record) JS of child abuse in 98 or in 2001 so consider that when evaluating people's actions.

Re: 2001 MM's story is uncorroborated so let's look at the metadata (police report, emails, texts, etc). Outside of the emails (which are far from conclusive unless you're wearing freeh goggles), all we have are 15yr old human recollections bc MM apparently didn't think his 99.9% certainty of child rape was a big enough deal to file an official police report over or even anonymous tip to police/ChildLine or express one iota of displeasure to the admins he trusted to handle his report when he noticed that no one from UPPD ever came to get his statement.

The metadata/lack of UPPD report tells us that MM reported an inappropriate shower that made him feel uncomfortable, not highly suspected child abuse. Any normal rational adult that highly suspects child abuse is going to at least make sure a written statement/report is made to LE, not just be ok with an informal admin/HR investigation.

OTOH, if you werent sure exactly what they were doing in the shower but wanted to make sure someone at psu knew about it, then being ok with an informal admin investigation and fwding the rpt to mandatory reporters at TSM (and then never making a big stink of things when nothing happened to JS) makes perfect sense.

You can spout off all the bullshit you want. If you receive a report of child sexual abuse, you don't go to the accused party to tell them someone thinks they're diddling kids. End of story.
 
I will address each point as best as I understand your point.

Have I considered that Sandusky may not be a pedophile? Yes. Any man who is confronted by a mother and police in 1998 about touching her kid inappropriately while naked with him in a shower, and then is in a shower with another kid after narrowly escaping is a pedophile. Period. 100% of the time. I can only speak for myself. I'm heterosexual, what I'd consider normal in every way. I would be uncomfortable showering with any group of kids at any time. Even with other adults. I would be ridiculously uncomfortable showering with a single kid, alone. And I would be insanely uncomfortable showering with a pre-pubescent kid after being accused of improper conduct a few years earlier. And I think all non-homosexual, non-pedophile males will say the exact same thing.

They did take steps to assure the incident wasn't repeated. Not very good steps, but they did something.

I am not sure what you think I'm assuming regarding "After speaking with Joe". I'm assuming (and it is definitely an assumption) that Curley is making it up. I'm assuming he never talked to Joe about what to do, but that Curley knows that saying "after talking to Joe" in writing will make Curley look less like the guy who made the decision, should things go badly. But I truly don't know, and I'm saying that I wish I knew exactly what was said, and by whom.

I think you're really off base on some of your assumptions. Curley felt Jerry should be included among those to be informed and proposed telling him. Joe probably reinforced those feelings. Spanier thought that was humane and a reasonable approach and offered his support. Spanier recognized that it would require an extra step on Tim's part (not one less step, which would be consistent with the narrative) and that the conversation with Jerry would be uncomfortable. He also told Tim he admired his willingness to go the extra mile. Tim asked for Graham's support because of the three, Tim was low man on the totem pole. This was Spanier's decision to make.

But you can't lose sight of the fact that Tim did not propose to exclude informing DPW. Had he written 'I am uncomfortable informing ANYONE but the person involved', the narrative would hold water. However, he said, "I am uncomfortable going to EVERYONE but the person involved. It means he didn't like the idea of going behind Sandusky's back. The entire narrative falls apart on that one word. Everyone versus anyone.
 
Okay, I'll do that.

indynittany sounds like he has the same proclivities as Jerry.
And you are so much a part of the ****ing problem! There was no abuse reported to them because MM didn't see any damn abuse. Why the hell do you believe a pervert like MM, but not three men we've known for decades to be honorable? Trying to impugn my reputation because your brain is two sizes too small is no excuse.
 
The take away: Call the police. When you see something or hear something that looks or sounds wrong or off - call 911 and report it.

Every single person involved in this mess could have called 911 and no one did. That is the lesson. Don't talk about it. Don't take it upon yourself to investigate it. Call 911.

That's easy to say with the benefit of hindsight. What if you thought JS was horsing around in the shower, inappropriate, skin touching skin, but nothing sexual? Do you tell him to stop or do you call the police?

IMO:
  • If MM told you it was sexual you encourage him to call the police (or get him into contact with police).
  • If you think it was simply Jerry being Jerry you go talk to Jerry & TSM.
  • TSM should never have allowed him to have one on one contact with kids.
  • PSU should never have allowed him to bring kids on campus one on one.
  • C & S should have required a written statement from MM to document exactly what he was reporting. In that case there would be no question about sexual vs. horseplay.
 
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And you are so much a part of the ****ing problem! There was no abuse reported to them because MM didn't see any damn abuse. Why the hell do you believe a pervert like MM, but not three men we've known for decades to be honorable? Trying to impugn my reputation because your brain is two sizes too small is no excuse.

LOL

You are an embarrassment to the university.
 
Because sexual abuse was never reported to them! Why do people have to repeatedly be hit over the head with this point? McQueary's story has evolved and he's now a rich man. Fill in the blanks!

This ^^^^^.

Not only did MM never make a written statement to UPPD but Dr. D said what MM told him wasn't bad enough to call police/CYS!!

For crying out loud what more do folks need to see to realize MM is playing revisionist history?

The OAG used MM to gaslight everyone and throw shade for the real enablers: TSM/OAG/CYS
 
I think you're really off base on some of your assumptions. Curley felt Jerry should be included among those to be informed and proposed telling him. Joe probably reinforced those feelings. Spanier thought that was humane and a reasonable approach and offered his support. Spanier recognized that it would require an extra step on Tim's part (not one less step, which would be consistent with the narrative) and that the conversation with Jerry would be uncomfortable. He also told Tim he admired his willingness to go the extra mile. Tim asked for Graham's support because of the three, Tim was low man on the totem pole. This was Spanier's decision to make.

But you can't lose sight of the fact that Tim did not propose to exclude informing DPW. Had he written 'I am uncomfortable informing ANYONE but the person involved', the narrative would hold water. However, he said, "I am uncomfortable going to EVERYONE but the person involved. It means he didn't like the idea of going behind Sandusky's back. The entire narrative falls apart on that one word. Everyone versus anyone.

You're leaving out the part where Schultz says "The only downside is that if the message isn't "heard" or isn't acted upon, then we become vulnerable for not having reported it."

So, your interpretation that Tim Curley did not propose to exclude DPW was not shared by Schultz. Schultz clearly thought that Curley meant to tell Sandusky only and to not involve DPW. Given that they did not ever tell the DPW, you really do not have a rational choice but to accept that they agreed to not tell DPW or the cops.
 
And you are so much a part of the ****ing problem! There was no abuse reported to them because MM didn't see any damn abuse. Why the hell do you believe a pervert like MM, but not three men we've known for decades to be honorable? Trying to impugn my reputation because your brain is two sizes too small is no excuse.

You know, it is possible for Curley, Schultz, and Spanier to have been honorable men, and to still be honorable men....and still not handle the situation perfectly.

Their own notes indicate that they knew something is really wrong with JS.

Their own emails indicate they knew they were vulnerable for not reporting if JS didn't stop.

And yet it is still possible for them to be honorable men. Absolutely. No one ever asks to have a pedophile thrown in their lap to handle. No one is prepared to deal with the deviousness of pedophiles, their grooming, their otherwise normal behavior.

But because we might want to defend C/S/S does not mean that we should ignore the simplest explanation of all the facts.
 
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You know, it is possible for Curley, Schultz, and Spanier to have been honorable men, and to still be honorable men....and still not handle the situation perfectly.

Their own notes indicate that they knew something is really wrong with JS.

Their own emails indicate they knew they were vulnerable for not reporting if JS didn't stop.

And yet it is still possible for them to be honorable men. Absolutely. No one ever asks to have a pedophile thrown in their lap to handle. No one is prepared to deal with the deviousness of pedophiles, their grooming, their otherwise normal behavior.

But because we might want to defend C/S/S does not mean that we should ignore the simplest explanation of all the facts.

Their own notes indicate they felt JS had boundary issues, unless you want to posit that they felt "professional help" was for his pedo issues? Or that they would illogically inform DPW if he didnt admit to being a pedo but wouldn't if he did? Please.

The vulnerable part is that if JS doesnt realize his showering behavior was wrong and needed to stop and another inappropriate shower is reported, they could get their balls sued off.

Thats why Spanier says something at the end of his email about crossing that bridge when they get there...aka well see over time whether or not JS follows their directive that his showering behavior needed to stop and was inappropriate.

As Indy has pointed out multiple times their only concern was focused on a subsequent incident, they seem to have no concern whatsoever about the child or his family going to police, etc., how do you explain that?
 
You know, it is possible for Curley, Schultz, and Spanier to have been honorable men, and to still be honorable men....and still not handle the situation perfectly.

Their own notes indicate that they knew something is really wrong with JS.

Their own emails indicate they knew they were vulnerable for not reporting if JS didn't stop.

And yet it is still possible for them to be honorable men. Absolutely. No one ever asks to have a pedophile thrown in their lap to handle. No one is prepared to deal with the deviousness of pedophiles, their grooming, their otherwise normal behavior.

But because we might want to defend C/S/S does not mean that we should ignore the simplest explanation of all the facts.
Gimme a "C"!!!
Gimme a "J"!!!!
 
Say what? What are C and J? Initials?
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Their own notes indicate they felt JS had boundary issues, unless you want to posit that they felt "professional help" was for his pedo issues? Or that they would illogically inform DPW if he didnt admit to being a pedo but wouldn't if he did? Please.

The vulnerable part is that if JS doesnt realize his showering behavior was wrong and needed to stop and another inappropriate shower is reported, they could get their balls sued off.

Thats why Spanier says something at the end of his email about crossing that bridge when they get there...aka well see over time whether or not JS follows their directive that his showering behavior needed to stop and was inappropriate.

As Indy has pointed out multiple times their only concern was focused on a subsequent incident, they seem to have no concern whatsoever about the child or his family going to police, etc., how do you explain that?

Those are interesting takes on the situation. I guess it is possible that they could think there is a meaningful difference between "boundary issues" and pedophilia. In my view, there is not, and it is psychobabble to pretend there is.

But if they think there is a difference between boundary issues and pedophilia, why was the original plan to inform DPW? Schultz email to Tim Curley says, paraphrasing, "You've got the ball to talk with JS, contact TSM, contact DPW"? Also, the hand written notes back this up.
 
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Ahhh, circle jerk. Yeah, we've been over it a bazillion times. No one is convincing anyone, I guess. Damned internet.
 
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The problem is that MM is batting one thousand both in legal terms and the court of public opinion. Add to that, MM has Joe's own sworn GJ testimony and the Sassano interview to back his account. That's impossible to overcome. I'm not at all surprised C/S took a plea deal. They looked at the odds and made a choice. C/S/S never had a chance in hell of winning.
 
The problem is that MM is batting one thousand both in legal terms and the court of public opinion. Add to that, MM has Joe's own sworn GJ testimony and the Sassano interview to back his account. That's impossible to overcome. I'm not at all surprised C/S took a plea deal. They looked at the odds and made a choice. C/S/S never had a chance in hell of winning.

Mike McQueary is batting about 0.168, below the Mendoza line.

No one respects him. Everyone hates him. No one believes much about the details as he now relates them. No one really believes that he was as explicit as he now says he was with Curley. Most people think that his description was probably vaguely expressed and subject to minor revisions, despite the fact that he now says he was clear as a bell.

BUT, people do believe he saw something very upsetting and terrible. No one believes that he decided on a Friday night to make up something to arrange a meeting with Paterno. No one believes that. Nor should they. MM saw something ugly. He probably expressed it poorly and perhaps intentionally so, especially to Joe Paterno. But the idea that nothing whatsoever happened because he's now exaggerating his "whistleblower" status is silly.
 
I am just so angry and demoralized.

And any McQueary false rape accuser enabling apologists need not reply or quote me.

I thought it was bad enough with Frank Fina / Patrick Blessington & the other hard core porn-addled prosecutors fueling that "anal rape" in a Penn State shower bullshit - but now we have McQueary with his stunningly erect penis - asking a random woman for a blow job - that he has now immortalized on the Internet - there are no words.

There is a Tawanna Brawley element to McQueary. We are just not getting the full story from him. He lied about watching "Rudy" that night and he has been manipulated by the OAG since.

This entire shitstorm is a result of a few guys that either can't keep their pants zipped up or had a figurative raging hard-on for someone or something.

To think Joe's Legacy and that of his Lettermen were taken down by McQueary and his penis. I myself feel victimized by that thing. I cannot ever "unsee" that image and his text / sexting convo over it.

I have half a mind to call Tom Kline up asking if there is some sort of class action lawsuit that PSU Alumnae can file against McQueary due to his "slapping sounds" & prurient mindest that has caused so many of us who happen to be mothers, grandmothers & aunts to be labeled as Child Rape Enablers and have our personal lives & personal property affected. That cuts me to the bone.

I'd love to speak directly again with Josh Shapiro on all this - and he's gone into radio silence on the Second Mile.

It's all too bizarre. But then you all knew that. But thank you for listening to my rant. I am just so disgusted by all of this.

Wendy, I wonder if any of these journalistic titans in Hbg or Phila are considering sitting down face-to-face with McQ or Dandrea or Paul Suhey or Joyner and asking them how they feel about seeing their one-time friend Tim Curley going to jail over this? My guess is that any of those guys would hide behind the nearest hedgerow to avoid actually talking to someone about that, let alone face-to-face. But that would make for an interesting piece if written objectively.

And, they could ask to interview Curley or Schultz and get their words to fill in the gaping wide holes that are just the tops of the abyss from this saga.

Think there's any journalistic curiosity in any of these folks in Hbg or Phila or elsewhere?
I doubt it.

We know they are all too intimidated or ethics-challenged when it comes to investigating TSM. But wouldn't that be a fun place to start for them? Until they get a visit or a phone call that makes them slink away into the darkness, I guess.
 
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And that is exactly the wrong lesson when you are not the eyewitness and the act is not occuring in your midst. Anyone in the field of child care will tell you that.
I'm in the field of child care and I would not tell you that. If there's reasonable suspicion of child endangerment there are a number of things you should do, especially as a mandated reporter. At a minimum you make a report to CPS and let them investigate.
 
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Wendy, I wonder if any of these journalistic titans in Hbg or Phila are considering sitting down face-to-face with McQ or Dandrea or Paul Suhey or Joyner and asking them how they feel about seeing their one-time friend Tim Curley going to jail over this? My guess is that any of those guys would hide behind the nearest hedgerow to avoid actually talking to someone about that, let alone face-to-face. But that would make for an interesting piece if written objectively.

And, they could ask to interview Curley or Schultz and get their words to fill in the gaping wide holes that are just the tops of the abyss from this saga.

Think there's any journalistic curiosity in any of these folks in Hbg or Phila or elsewhere?
I doubt it.

We know they are all too intimidated or ethics-challenged when it comes to investigating TSM. But wouldn't that be a fun place to start for them? Until they get a visit or a phone call that makes them slink away into the darkness, I guess.
They would stare directly at the reporter and lie. No Mystery
 
Think there's any journalistic curiosity in any of these folks in Hbg or Phi

That's a good question.

Forget Harrisburg - that would be the shitty Patriot-News.

Now, Philadelphia? I don't follow sports - so I don't know if anyone from here would pick up that thread and weave a story. I can tell you a few women and their editors at the Inquirer had a HUGE GUFFAW over McQ's latest "slapping sounds" smartphone stunt.

Another poster here commented about McQueary failing that Success With Honor creed. To think of it, McQ's stunningly erect penis and prurient mindset invited the NCAA to do the damage they did to the guys on the 2011/2012 squad.

I wonder what Mauti & Zordich and the rest of the guys would now have to say about it? Frank Bodani is one guy who I'll email thanking him for his viewpoint, and he responds with a nice acknowledgement - and I like John U. Bacon as well. They both might write on this topic, as they wrote about the 2011/2012 team.
 
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One thing I'm confused by. It sounded like C&S accepted plea deals thinking that they would get probation and no jail time. It also sounded like the prosecutor was upset by their testimony.

I'm very naive here but I thought with most plea deals the accused agreed to testify to something and the prosecutor would in return ask the judge for a more lenient sentence. In this case the prosecutor went for the jugular. WTF kid of plea deal was that? Did C&S have a change of heart ans soften their testimony? Or did the prosecutor renege on his promise? I'm missing something here.
 
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