The worst part of the C/S/S trials

Discussion in 'BWI / McAndrew Board' started by bdgan, Jun 4, 2017.

  1. bdgan

    bdgan Well-Known Member
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    Our reputation is forever tarnished and we didn't get much closer to the truth. We didn't get clarification on the three most critical e-mails.

    Curley: "After giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe yesterday, I am uncomfortable with what we agreed were the next steps. I am having trouble with going to everyone but the person involved. I would be more comfortable meeting with the person and tell them about the information we received and tell them we are aware of the first situation.”

    I don't think anybody ever asked Curley to explain if Joe pressured him to avoid reporting to authorities or why he decided not to contact authorities after hearing what JS had to say.

    Spanier: “The only downside for us is if the message isn’t ‘heard’ and acted upon and we then become vulnerable for not having reported it. But that can be assessed down the road.”

    I don't think we ever got clarification that he felt the message was in fact heard and acted upon. If not, why weren't authorities notified?

    Shultz: “This is a more humane and upfront way to handle this.” The report said Schultz said they’d inform The Second Mile and then “play it by ear” about going to the “other organization.”

    Did we ever hear about the "play it by ear" part?


    The one thing we DID learn is that JM, Dranov, Curley, Shultz, and Spanier all said (in some form) that MM didn't tell them anything that necessitated calling the police. It sounds like the judge is calling them all liars.
     
  2. lionlurker

    lionlurker Well-Known Member
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    Nobody explained anything to anybody. Nobody defended themselves one iota. Everybody rolled over and cried uncle, for no apparent reason, and they still all got jail time. Just more unexplainable stuff to go along with all of the other unexplainable stuff.

    They didn't even need lawyers to have it play out the way it did. They should have saved their money.
     
  3. Fayette_LION

    Fayette_LION Well-Known Member
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    Curley: "After giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe yesterday, I am uncomfortable with what we agreed were the next steps. I am having trouble with going to everyone but the person involved. I would be more comfortable meeting with the person and tell them about the information we received and tell them we are aware of the first situation.”

    I don't think anybody ever asked Curley to explain if Joe pressured him to avoid reporting to authorities or why he decided not to contact authorities after hearing what JS had to say.

    I am having trouble with going to everyone but the person involved. My thoughts are that Joe wanted Curley to take it directly to JS first, not to bypass him without hearing his side. I don't think Joe ever indicated that he was not for going to the other organizations, only talking to JS first. I think he felt JS should not be left out of that loop.
     
  4. interrobang

    interrobang Well-Known Member
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    What relevance would it have been to any of the trials if Joe did pressure them? It's not like the state could have said "oh if Joe said so, then you're fine, charges dropped!"
     
  5. BobPSU92

    BobPSU92 Well-Known Member
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    And yet they still communicated it to raykovitz, the mandated reporter responsible for these kids. The result? Swim trunks.
     
  6. NewEra 2014

    NewEra 2014 Well-Known Member
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    I used to love Penn State and pretty much everything about it. I was part of something that gave me great pride, and I wanted to give back to that institution and encourage others to go there to obtain an education. The Sandusky situation exposed that positive feeling about the institution as being a sham. Personally, I feel that a significant portion of my identity has been damaged because of this. I wonder if others on this board feel the same way.

    Not because of Sandusky himself--even within great institutions, you will find horrible people who do horrible things. It is how an institution deals with such a crisis that reveals its true character. When the leadership of that institution attempts to tear down some of the very people and things that made it great as a means of self-protection, I am done. Don't insinuate that I, and every other Penn State alum, put football ahead of children's welfare and then come ask me for money.

    I was no fan of Spanier, but he didn't deserve this. I was a great fan of Joe, and certainly he didn't deserve this either. When Penn State threw them under the bus, they threw all Penn State alums under the bus.

    Now the only thing I care about in regard to Penn State is football. The rest of the university is dead to me.
     
  7. PearlSUJam

    PearlSUJam Well-Known Member
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    +1
     
  8. sarasotan

    sarasotan Well-Known Member
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    I also only care about football now. I didn't even care about football much before 2011. Mauti et al did it for me.
     
  9. lionlurker

    lionlurker Well-Known Member
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    That is very well said, and it is what a lot of us feel. But don't kid yourself; they don't give a shit about you or me or anyone else. They don't give a shit about the university, and never did. All they care about is how they can profit from their association with it.
     
  10. bwifan

    bwifan Well-Known Member
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    What is kind of ironic out of this whole mess was PSU alum and fans were cast as covering things up and only caring about football when that couldn't be further from the truth. Now for many PSU alums and fans, football is the only thing left they care about at PSU.
     
    10 bwifan, Jun 4, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
  11. indynittany

    indynittany Well-Known Member
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    The first email doesn't suggest that. Read it again! Curley was uncomfortable informing everyone else without also letting Sandusky know what was going on. Curley did not suggest that anyone be excluded from being informed. He simply felt Jerry should be among them. Spanier understood it that way, because he recognized that what Tim was suggesting would necessitate an additional step and that the conversation with Jerry would be uncomfortable.

    I believe the proper interpretation of that one email destroys the entire narrative with respect to Joe's part and the conspiracy nonsense.

    If their message was heard and acted upon, there wouldn't be another incident. That's what "acted upon" means in this context. You would think if there was any evidence to suggest they were aware of a subsequent incident, we would already know about it.

    The important part of the 2nd email, though, lies in the fact that the "only" downside on Spanier's radar had to be triggered by a subsequent incident. How is it possible that these men were informed of a boy being sexually abused in their facilities and the only concern guiding their decision was to prevent it from happening in the future? As though they didn't care what Jerry was doing, as long as he wasn't doing it at PSU.

    It is difficult to believe that these men would have completely ignored the open ended risk that the boy or his mother would initiate a report. It had happened only three years before. Penn State would have been incredibly vulnerable in a civil suit, especially since a current employee, MM, had witnessed the abuse and left the boy with his abuser and without calling the authorities. He was a 26 year old man. He should have known right from wrong in a situation like that.

    IMO, that there was no mention of the boy in any of their communications is the most compelling evidence that they did not believe they were dealing with CSA.

    The most important take away from Schultz's email is that he's echoing Spanier's thoughts re Tim's recommendation to bring Sandusky up to speed. Humane and upfront.

    There's nothing in these emails to infer that Curley had suggested not involving DPW following his discussion with Joe. Whether or not to do that was always treated as an option.

    Every reference to reporting beyond TSM was in the context of an if/then scenario. Schultz wrote a note on the same day he and Curley spoke with Joe to the effect that unless Jerry admitted his problem, they would have to involve DPW. Curley wrote that if Jerry wasn't cooperative, then they would have to inform both TSM and DPW. Spanier worried that Sandusky wouldn't hear and act upon their message, implying that they would be vulnerable if another incident occurred.

    Again, if they believed Jerry had abused a child in their facilities, the discussion about whether to involve DPW would have been relative to the current situation and what Jerry had done, not contingent upon what Jerry might do in the future.
     
    11 indynittany, Jun 4, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
  12. Media Fan

    Media Fan Well-Known Member
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    43,000 students on the campus, let alone the satellites. What is it 600,000 alums plus people like me, whose child went there. PSU is all of that and much,much more.
    I'll try this, most likely without success, since people do and think what they want to, but should I condemn all the family members and friends of a drug addict. I sure hope I am more than that.
     
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  13. mn78psu83

    mn78psu83 Well-Known Member
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    Nutshell.
     
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  14. lionlurker

    lionlurker Well-Known Member
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    Not only did they throw the alums under the bus, but they rifled all of the pockets for money before they took away the corpses.
     
  15. SmithtonLion

    SmithtonLion Well-Known Member
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    Those are all interesting aspects that I'd like to see clarified myself.

    As I've said many times - there can be no doubt that JS is a pedophile, but who knew what, and how the decision making was made, is still unclear.

    Those e-mails make it clear that C/S/S knew this was not some unimportant issue, regardless of how poorly MM might or might not have communicated.

    The thing we apparently will never know is, "What was each person thinking, and who gave what input?"

    Frankly, I have always viewed the first e-mail as Curley doing some potential covering his ass. He knows that "after talking with Joe" will look good for him, should the whole thing go sideways.

    But that's only my opinion. It is possible that Joe did offer some advice along those lines.
     
  16. AWS1022

    AWS1022 Well-Known Member
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    If the parents of that family member were getting rich off the kid's drug addiction, would you hate them? How about if they were throwing other family members under the bus to protect their involvement and nobody cared? Would you still not condemn them?
     
  17. fairfaxlion2

    fairfaxlion2 Well-Known Member
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    [QUOTE="SmithtonLion, post: 2817108, member: 77397]
    Frankly, I have always viewed the first e-mail as Curley doing some potential covering his ass. He knows that "after talking with Joe" will look good for him, should the whole thing go sideways.
    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, it reads like a cya email. Let's be honest. that is the type of email you see from management types who are very unsure of themselves, barely competent, and totally unable to make their own decisions.
     
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  18. bdgan

    bdgan Well-Known Member
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    I don't know how the "after talking with Joe" comment could have helped him. He looks weak if he allowed Joe to convince him not to do his job.

    I think it's possible that Joe suggested going to Jerry to see what he has to say for himself before going to authorities. In fact I agree that telling Jerry before going to authorities would be the humane thing to do rather than blindside him. The question is why didn't Curley go to authorities after talking to Jerry & Raykovitz? Spanier's e-mail said the only risk was if the message wasn't acted upon. Could Curley have possibly thought Raykovitz's comment about wearing swim trunks was sufficient action?
     
  19. WDLion

    WDLion Well-Known Member
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    The judge is the mouthpiece.
     
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  20. wensilver

    wensilver Well-Known Member
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    I am just so angry and demoralized.

    And any McQueary false rape accuser enabling apologists need not reply or quote me.

    I thought it was bad enough with Frank Fina / Patrick Blessington & the other hard core porn-addled prosecutors fueling that "anal rape" in a Penn State shower bullshit - but now we have McQueary with his stunningly erect penis - asking a random woman for a blow job - that he has now immortalized on the Internet - there are no words.

    There is a Tawanna Brawley element to McQueary. We are just not getting the full story from him. He lied about watching "Rudy" that night and he has been manipulated by the OAG since.

    This entire shitstorm is a result of a few guys that either can't keep their pants zipped up or had a figurative raging hard-on for someone or something.

    To think Joe's Legacy and that of his Lettermen were taken down by McQueary and his penis. I myself feel victimized by that thing. I cannot ever "unsee" that image and his text / sexting convo over it.

    I have half a mind to call Tom Kline up asking if there is some sort of class action lawsuit that PSU Alumnae can file against McQueary due to his "slapping sounds" & prurient mindest that has caused so many of us who happen to be mothers, grandmothers & aunts to be labeled as Child Rape Enablers and have our personal lives & personal property affected. That cuts me to the bone.

    I'd love to speak directly again with Josh Shapiro on all this - and he's gone into radio silence on the Second Mile.

    It's all too bizarre. But then you all knew that. But thank you for listening to my rant. I am just so disgusted by all of this.
     
  21. BoulderFish

    BoulderFish Well-Known Member
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    Other than "Personally, I feel that a significantportion of my identity has been damaged," I couldn't agree more with this post.
     
  22. indynittany

    indynittany Well-Known Member
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    Please see specific responses to your comments in the quote box.

    The evidence from 2001 strongly suggests that these men acted like they were dealing with a somewhat delicate HR problem, not a crime. How we got from there to here is all about the evolution of MM's story.

    The OAG, the courts and Tom Corbett need to explain why Graham Spanier is going to jail even though Curley supposedly didn't tell him how serious the matter was, while Jack Raykovitz is getting a complete pass for the very same reason.
     
  23. SmithtonLion

    SmithtonLion Well-Known Member
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    Yes, it reads like a cya email. Let's be honest. that is the type of email you see from management types who are very unsure of themselves, barely competent, and totally unable to make their own decisions.[/QUOTE]

    We must be co-workers. ;):(
     
  24. ThePennsyOracle

    ThePennsyOracle Well-Known Member
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    If the Sandusky Scandal caused your identity to be damaged, that's on you--not Penn State or Jerry Sandusky.

    Cry me a river. Nut up and put on your big boy pants.
     
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  25. PearlSUJam

    PearlSUJam Well-Known Member
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    I'm not ok with this. This could (possibly did) give JS time to get in contact with the child and pressure him to deny what happened, and also hide evidence.

    It's never a good idea to tip someone off they may be investigated unless you're willing to concede they may hide evidence or meet with others to get their "stories straight".

    This part of the email never sat well with me.
     
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  26. lionlurker

    lionlurker Well-Known Member
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    What we have here are some of the world's worst, most self-absorbed evil people, who somehow have manipulated this situation into everybody thinking that other people are the world's most self-absorbed, evil people, in very large part because one of the world's most dishonest, weakest, most vile individuals has allowed others to take the fall for him, with apparently no guilt whatsoever.

    The people at the center of this shitshow knew that JS wasn't going down alone, and they did their best to make sure it wasn't them that went down with him.
     
  27. canuckhal

    canuckhal Well-Known Member
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    Everyone's actions suggest that MM did not tell anything sexual happened and no one thought JS was a pedophile including Jack. Going to him makes sense in this context, especially considering actions that PSU took.
     
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  28. indynittany

    indynittany Well-Known Member
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    That's BS!
     
  29. PearlSUJam

    PearlSUJam Well-Known Member
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    I understand what you're saying and it's a good possibility, but in my opinion the humane thing would have been to find out who the kid was and get his side of the story. (Of course this wouldn't have been needed if MM didn't puss out).
     
  30. bdgan

    bdgan Well-Known Member
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    I think it would be different if you knew that JS was sexually assaulting a kid. In that case I agree with you. But if you heard a soft story and weren't sure exactly what happened you might be reluctant to go directly to JS before contacting authorities.

    What would you do if somebody came to you and said he "thought" he just saw your friend break into somebody's house? Would you take his word for it and call the cops on him? Or would you confront your friend about what somebody said?
     
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  31. SmithtonLion

    SmithtonLion Well-Known Member
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    I will address each point as best as I understand your point.

    Have I considered that Sandusky may not be a pedophile? Yes. Any man who is confronted by a mother and police in 1998 about touching her kid inappropriately while naked with him in a shower, and then is in a shower with another kid after narrowly escaping is a pedophile. Period. 100% of the time. I can only speak for myself. I'm heterosexual, what I'd consider normal in every way. I would be uncomfortable showering with any group of kids at any time. Even with other adults. I would be ridiculously uncomfortable showering with a single kid, alone. And I would be insanely uncomfortable showering with a pre-pubescent kid after being accused of improper conduct a few years earlier. And I think all non-homosexual, non-pedophile males will say the exact same thing.

    They did take steps to assure the incident wasn't repeated. Not very good steps, but they did something.

    I am not sure what you think I'm assuming regarding "After speaking with Joe". I'm assuming (and it is definitely an assumption) that Curley is making it up. I'm assuming he never talked to Joe about what to do, but that Curley knows that saying "after talking to Joe" in writing will make Curley look less like the guy who made the decision, should things go badly. But I truly don't know, and I'm saying that I wish I knew exactly what was said, and by whom.
     
  32. ThePennsyOracle

    ThePennsyOracle Well-Known Member
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    Only on the BWI McAndrew Board is it OK to tell a suspected pedophile that he is indeed a suspected pedophile before contacting police.

    What the hell is wrong with you?
     
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  33. bdgan

    bdgan Well-Known Member
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    I agree. The mystery is why nothing more was done after Curley talked with both JS & Raykovitz. Curley's e-mail didn't rule out going to authorities. Spanier's e-mail said he was OK with confronting JS but that the message had to be acted upon.

    So why did things stop with Raykovitz? Did JS & Raykovitz successfully convince Curley that nothing sexual happened?
     
  34. PearlSUJam

    PearlSUJam Well-Known Member
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    Breaking into someone's house? It depends on how good of a friend and what they did once inside.

    If somebody came to me and said he "thought" he saw my friend abusing a kid, I would absolutely call the police first. No questions asked.
     
  35. bdgan

    bdgan Well-Known Member
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    So in my example of a person tells you that he thought he saw your friend... You would blow him into the police without asking him WTF went on? Maybe it wasn't him. Maybe the owner locked themselves out of the house and your friend was helping them get in. No, I probably wouldn't immediately blow my friend into the police based on a weak second hand suspicion.
     
    35 bdgan, Jun 4, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
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  36. bjf1991

    bjf1991 Well-Known Member
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    There are a million shitty outcomes as a result of the latest rendition of the CSS fiasco (circa 2017).


    One of them - while certainly not the most impactful - is the re-catalyzation of the 6 year old circle-jerk.
    With, now, absolutely zero possibility of it ever being anything more than a meaningless, endless, profoundly stupid circle-jerk.


    Yeah!!!
     
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  37. ThePennsyOracle

    ThePennsyOracle Well-Known Member
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    So breaking into a house and child sexual abuse are one in the same in terms of crimes?

    Let me give you a tip. Pull your head out of your ass. Very terrible things happened at the hands of Jerry Sandusky. Lots of people ****ed up, and we'll never know why. Stop trying to rationalize it, stop trying to make it look better, and stop trying to come up with bullshit reasons to explain people's actions.
     
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  38. ClarkstonMark

    ClarkstonMark Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I agree with this. Can't understand why they would talk to Sandusky.
     
  39. BobPSU92

    BobPSU92 Well-Known Member
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    Somewhere on this site today (this thread?), someone pointed out the irony that now for many, Penn State is just football after the false narrative portraying it as such. People are disgusted and have turned away from the university. I am disgusted as well, but there is much more great about this university than football. The academics and research are still very strong, many students are still doing great things, and the athletic department as a whole is highly successful. Penn State has the most successful athletic program in the b1g all-time (with the best combination of success on and off the field) and is tied nationally for the most national championships since 2007.

    I understand the feelings that many here have towards Penn State, but please place blame where it belongs -- Old Main. That is, the bot and the administration. Don't give up on Dear Old State. The vast majority of people at Penn State deserve our support.
     
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  40. mn78psu83

    mn78psu83 Well-Known Member
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    Excellent post. One thing to consider. As a former Blue Band member, you get to come back each year for Homecoming and party like a rock star with all of those Blue Band alumnae. Few other board members have that perk. :D
     

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