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The string has been broken, my daughter has become a panther

All evidence to the contrary?

Please tell me you were just kidding, and DON'T have a PSU degree (at least not in any mathematical, quant, or critical thinking discipline)....
Well, then you should know that rankings are merely an ordering, and the absolute differences that separate ranks can be minimal (I’m referring to the exit salary rankings you cited). And there can be geo effects going into those figures as well. A mid-B1G grad isn’t as likely to be seeking Cali or NYC offers, so their base may be lower than some schools situated elsewhere.

With that said, I have no extra level of respect for PSU programs and grads grads than those of say, Wisconsin, Illinois, Pitt, ...
 
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"I can tell you that in my experience PSU degrees are still valued more than Pitt degrees"... Yippee.
BTW: Where is this market where students sell their diplomas?

What does your Aunt Becky's hairdresser think?

(Or that one WSJ article from NINE YEARS ago?)


I'll look at the facts.... thank you very much :)


From the US DOE Figures - Starting Salaries for Grads:
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/search/?control=public&sort=salary:desc&page=6

Rankings within B10 Universities (plus Pitt and Temple)

1 -Northwestern (not listed - since it is private... but it is certainly near the top)
2 - Michigan
3 - Illinois
4 - Maryland
5 - Rutgers
6 - Wisconsin
7 - Purdue
PITT ($53,900 / yr)
8 - Michigan State
9 - Iowa
10 - Minnesota
TEMPLE
11 - PENN STATE ($50,100 / yr)
12 - Indiana
13 - Nebraska
14 - Ohio State

But, I'm sure Aunt Becky's guesses are more sound.
I'm just eating up the anticipation of the next spin. :)

I'll ask the same question you and Aunt Becky have tried to dodge... "so you think that schools of different sizes are directly comparable?" Just like with admission statistic, it's an apples to oranges comparison. The "facts" you reference have an average salary for PSU over all branch campuses. Plus it's median earnings for former students who obtained federal financial aid, at 10 years after entering the school... not "Starting Salaries for Grads". I'd ask you how you considered the impact of the 10 years on what you think is an apples to apples comparison, but it's clear you didn't understand what you were looking at. Based on your lack of reading comprehension, please tell me you were just kidding, and DON'T have a PSU degree (at least not in any mathematical, quant, or critical thinking discipline)...

What do you do for a living and where? Just curious about what corporate hiring experience you have?

massimoManca || said:
Pandaczar typed this on his PalmPilot

While your reply certainly wasn't witty or solicited. You've certainly swayed me with your well defined argument based on facts, and your personal experience. BRAVO!
 
th


LSHIPM

I wasn't trying to say Pitt isn't a good school. Growing up in the burbs of Pittsburgh, I have many friends who attended Pitt. It is a very good school. So is PSU. My point was that statistics don't tell the whole story.

I actually could have attended Pitt a lot cheaper than PSU. This was due to scholarships, mother working for UPMC. I chose PSU over Pitt for a couple of reasons. 1) I didn't want to go to school in a city - I preferred the environment that the kids are 'isolated', 2) I wanted to be far enough from home I felt on my own, but not to far where I couldn't get home easily, 3) I started Architectural Engineering which PSU was rated higher - plus more options to change majors into a highly rated major than Pitt and 4) PSU name carries a bit more weight nationally than Pitt - this is largely perception - but also our alums are more spread out. Pitt's alums tend to stay in PA - and I didn't necessarily want to stay in PA my whole life. I have worked for 6 companies in 4 states and only 1 company didn't have other PSU alums working there (and that was a small consulting firm).

There are certain majors I would recommend a student go to Pitt over PSU and others where I would recommend PSU over Pitt for. Also - where a student wants to go after college. If they are happy staying in PA - then PITT is a good option. If they want to move to other parts of the country then PSU is probably better (unless they go the pharmacist route).

Both schools are good options and anybody should be proud to have a degree from either - it is more preferences to college setting and post college location that should dictate which one to attend (in my opinion)
 
Back for another try at posting on this board and I saw this thread. I have a story that is related.

A good friend graduated from Penn State in 1996 and, after looking for work in the Erie area where he is from, moved to Tennessee with his new wife. His brother had a business in Knoxville. He stayed there for 15 years until his brother passed away and then he moved back to Pennsylvania. While in Knoxville he adopted Tennessee has his 2nd love in college football after PSU. Last year his only child, a son and an excellent student, applied to a number of colleges including Tennessee and Penn State. He was accepted at both, and since he is now living in Pennsylvania, PSU seemed like a logical choice, but, as so many others have said, he got nothing from Penn State and a good scholarship package from Tenn so he went there. At the time my friend said Penn State was too expensive and he expected that the BOT would soon be charging to breathe the air on campus. I laughed, but today, in his honor, I have rewritten a bit of the Alma Mater.

There is no glory at Old State,
It's run by fools who desecrate,
A Big Ten school that once was great,
Poor Old State, Poor Old State.
I no longer have love or loyalty,
The BOT stole it all from me.
All I have is sympathy,
For Poor Old State, Poor Old State.
 
Pitt and Temple are not run by grifters. My youngest will graduate from Temple this Spring. I am getting more and more "done" with PSU every day.

Agreed except for name recognition in the workplace fwiw. Down here in NC, no one knows what Pitt is other than a school called Pittsburgh (no reputation associated with it either way). PSU on the other hand... we seem to be everywhere and well-known.
 
FWIW:
I currently write out tuition checks to both schools (PSU and Pitt), as I have kids attending each.
Given that evidence, I don't think anyone could be any more convinced than I am wrt there being many reasons for an individual to choose one University over another.
:)
Otherwise, every kid in the country would be attending Harvard.

I don't even think that issue (that there are many factors involved) is even something anyone would debate… although one might discuss some of the specific parameters that are important to THEIR SPECIFIC situation at great length.



That doesn't mean that one University isn't doing a much better job of educating kids - in a quality manner, and providing a better "bang for the buck" - than another.

My discussion has been wrt the overall Leadership, Administration, and Governance of the various Universities as a whole...… and how that impacts items such as cost and quality of education - University-wide.

Pitt is kicking PSU in the nuts in that regard. As are most of PSU's peer schools in the BigTen.
Quite frankly, given what has been going on at PSU, it would be hard to NOT kick PSU in the nuts - - - - - - I don't know how any intelligent and observant person could see what is going on at PSU, and NOT come to that conclusion.


Our BOT’s sole achievement is their 24/7/365 kicking of PSU in the nuts while having their collective heads up their collective asses.
 
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The facts are the facts.
All I did was present them.
If you want to ignore them - even if you want to make up irrelevant shit from thin air to "counter them" - as Matt Millen would say, "That's on you" :)

Good luck.
Move those babies anywhere you want...

All you did was misrepresent and/or misunderstand the "facts", and when I pointed that out in explicit detail, you just ignored it and projected your behaviors on me. Wow... just wow.

Still waiting to hear about your location and relevant corporate hiring experience...
 
Excellent posts. While these nuances seem painfully obvious to us, not everyone on this board is going to understand.

Well, then you should know that rankings are merely an ordering, and the absolute differences that separate ranks can be minimal (I’m referring to the exit salary rankings you cited). And there can be geo effects going into those figures as well. A mid-B1G grad isn’t as likely to be seeking Cali or NYC offers, so their base may be lower than some schools situated elsewhere.

Agreed except for name recognition in the workplace fwiw. Down here in NC, no one knows what Pitt is other than a school called Pittsburgh (no reputation associated with it either way). PSU on the other hand... we seem to be everywhere and well-known.
 
I can inform you.
I can't educate you (In any event, I'm not gonna' try. You don't pay me enough. Have a wonderful life. Ciao.)

The word you are looking for is "misinform". I also agree that you can't educate, so hopefully that is not your profession. But I'm guessing it is, since you don't seem to have any relevant corporate experience to draw on.

Your strategy of posting a link that you either didn't read or you just didn't understand the differences between "median earnings for former students who obtained federal financial aid, at 10 years after entering the school" and "Starting Salaries for Grads"... was not well thought out. Trying to ignore your mistake, by constantly trying to change the subject and post gifs is pointless. I at least commend you for knowing when the battle is lost and when you should cut and run.
 
So I do find it funny all of these numbers showing Pitt is better like salary.

Doesn’t Pitt have something like 30k total enrollment and psu has 100k enrollment.

Can we take the salaries etc of our top 30k to compare? Hmmmm. Wouldn’t that be something.
 
My sister, brother, wife and I are all alums. My oldest son is a junior at Penn State but my daughter has decided to go to Pitt. She will be the first in my immediate family not to attend Penn State. I’m very proud of her since she received substantial academic scholarships to every school she applied to and will be attending Pitt essentially tuition free. The only university she did not receive a scholarship from is Penn State. I am not sure I understand how state affiliated universities like Pitt and Temple can offer scholships but Penn state cannot.
Pitt is a fine school, so she will can get a good education.

And you shouldn't have to worry about her becoming a Pitt athletics fan. It's pretty clear that a very, very small percentage of students into that black hole of mediocrity.
 
So I do find it funny all of these numbers showing Pitt is better like salary.

Doesn’t Pitt have something like 30k total enrollment and psu has 100k enrollment.

Can we take the salaries etc of our top 30k to compare? Hmmmm. Wouldn’t that be something.

I've been trying to make the same point.
 
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My sister, brother, wife and I are all alums. My oldest son is a junior at Penn State but my daughter has decided to go to Pitt. She will be the first in my immediate family not to attend Penn State. I’m very proud of her since she received substantial academic scholarships to every school she applied to and will be attending Pitt essentially tuition free. The only university she did not receive a scholarship from is Penn State. I am not sure I understand how state affiliated universities like Pitt and Temple can offer scholships but Penn state cannot.

Even free, Pitt is Pitt.

You failed as a parent....

;):(:confused::(
 
PSU isn't declining - it is the makeup of the university.
Pitt has branch campuses but the don't guarantee transfer to Oakland.
At PSU it is 'easy' to get into a branch campus. The requirements to get in are significantly lower than to get admitted to UP. These requirements are no different than Pitt Johnstown/etc. The difference is students who go to Pitt Johnstown don't automatically transfer to Oakland if they want to where as the students at PSUs branch campus's can attend UP for 2 years.

When I attended (late 90's) about growing the commonwealth campuses to 4 years to minimize the effect. I know numerous campuses expanded 4 year majors to minimize the impact - but it still isn't where it should be. To be admitted to UP - it is as tough to enroll as a freshman as almost any public university.

This also doesn't tell the whole story. As many pointed out - it isn't who gets in - it is who gets out. PSU's graduates regardless of entry criteria - are among the best prepared (atleast among publics) and we are ranked accordingly there. We have many programs ranked in the top 20 of the country - and regardless if somebody had less credentials to get in than others - they are more prepared when the leave - and that is what matters.

Your post is written so shabbily that I suspect you did not make it to University Park ;) #proofreadingisyourfriend
 
Your post is written so shabbily that I suspect you did not make it to University Park ;) #proofreadingisyourfriend

I think the point is that he did. Remember, Penn State is awful. They get horrible students. Nothing good is happening there.

We Are...Awful!
 
Thanks everyone for the sentiments. She seems comfortable with her decision so I sure it’s the right one.
 
Average SAT Score:
University A: 1330
University B: 1247


Percent of Enrolled Students w HS GPA of 3.75+:
University A: 81%
University B: 33%

Number of Full Time Faculty per 100 Students:
University A: 9.4
University B: 6.6


Need Based Grants per Student:
University A: $3,527
University B: $1,185



In case anyone can't tell - - - -
University A is Pitt, University B is Penn State.


It ain't the way it used to be.


But PSU kicks ass is grossly overpaid and duplicative Administrators.
Yeah team!!!!!

Admitting all those extra out-of-state students simply to draw extra tuition revenue doesn't help the stats either. So what if they leave the university after a couple years. PSU still has their money. The university academic profile isn't a priority with Old Main or the BoT. It's all about the $$$ and making sure the right people get their cut.
 
"I can tell you that in my experience PSU degrees are still valued more than Pitt degrees"... Yippee.
BTW: Where is this market where students sell their diplomas?

What does your Aunt Becky's hairdresser think?

(Or that one WSJ article from NINE YEARS ago?)


I'll look at the facts.... thank you very much :)


From the US DOE Figures - Starting Salaries for Grads:
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/search/?control=public&sort=salary:desc&page=6

Rankings within B10 Universities (plus Pitt and Temple)

1 -Northwestern (not listed - since it is private... but it is certainly near the top)
2 - Michigan
3 - Illinois
4 - Maryland
5 - Rutgers
6 - Wisconsin
7 - Purdue
PITT ($53,900 / yr)
8 - Michigan State
9 - Iowa
10 - Minnesota
TEMPLE
11 - PENN STATE ($50,100 / yr)
12 - Indiana
13 - Nebraska
14 - Ohio State


But, I'm sure Aunt Becky's guesses are more sound.
I'm just eating up the anticipation of the next spin. :)
You neglected to note that these numbers are limited to students who received federal financial aid. I shouldn't have to explain why that skews the numbers. They also have appeared to lump all PSU campuses together (I can't imagine how they would have the exact same median salary otherwise), which will further skew these numbers.

So even if you use median salary 10 years after enrollment as a good metric (I would argue this is a terrible metric because it also makes the assumption that everyone enters the workforce after graduation and ignores graduate school -- my salary 10 years after enrollment was quite low but that's because I went straight through to my PhD and was a post-doc at the 10 years after enrollment mark), you still showed up wildly skewed data without being honest about what you are showing.

But that's par for your course. Ignore any facts that don't support your narrative. Are you a journalist by any chance? Or maybe a prosecuting attorney? ;-)
 
Of course they do.

As they do for every University in the DOE database.
You think PSU is treated differently? LOL

You think that you (and folks who went to PSU) are the only ones who spent their entire adult life wallowing in the slop that is "higher education" bureaucracy?
(Of course, in your case, that explains a lot :) )


You got a problem with the metrics the DOE applies to their database? Why don't you call THEM and educate them.

Dipshit.

Since we are apparently resulting to name calling, maybe you should take a remedial statistics course you ****ing half wit and then get back to me.

Just because every school's data are skewed ("As they do for every University in the DOE database") doesn't make the data OK. It just means it is universally flawed.

I'm calling YOU out (not DOE) because you are the dishonest cretin who posts biased stuff without explaining what you are posting. And then when those of us that actually care, look into what you are posting, it's apparent that you are completely full of it and when we call you on it, you double down on your stupidity.

I have traveled all over the world. Very few people know what a "Pitt" is. I never run across Pitt grads and when I do, I'm usually underwhelmed with them professionally.
 
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You may wish it to be so, but there's no objective evidence to back up that claim. Pitt's incoming students have better numbers than PSU's do by a not-insignificant amount, and they are spending on faculty as well. Even if it is (doubtfully) true what you state about a PSU degree relative to a Pitt degree, that won't be the case much longer.

The academic decline of PSU has been precipitous and alarming, and it doesn't appear that it is being adequately addressed. We may as well all get used to the fact that this school will be relegated amongst the Big Ten bottom dwellers until the leadership of this school decides to deal with the issue, which unfortunately for all would require them to admit that this has all happened under their (lack of) leadership. There is a significant amount of arrogance at the top of this university, and it is fully unwarranted.


Amen. Inept administration of the highest order, and the worst part is their seeming inaction in dealing with it.
 
Since we are apparently resulting to name calling, maybe you should take a remedial statistics course you ****ing half wit and then get back to me.

Just because every school's data are skewed ("As they do for every University in the DOE database") doesn't make the data OK. It just means it is universally flawed.

I'm calling YOU out (not DOE) because you are the dishonest cretin who posts biased stuff without explaining what you are posting. And then when those of us that actually care, look into what you are posting, it's apparent that you are completely full of it and when we call you on it, you double down on your stupidity.

I have traveled all over the world. Very few people know what a "Pitt" is. I never run across Pitt grads and when I do, I'm usually underwhelmed with them professionally.

You nailed it.

I pointed out all the same stuff earlier in this thread, with a fairly similar result.
 
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Bless your heart.
Does your Aunt Becky know what "Pitt" is?
How about your Barber's cousin?
And...who cares about "Pitt" anyway?

I thought the point was the how and why wrt PSU dropping like a rock relative to its peer group vav Academic prowess.

I don't know what your point is.
So... what IS your point?

(Aside from the obvious:
th
)

LSHIPM
Your metrics for academic prowess are, in my view, incorrect.

They seem to be based on admissions standards (which really only measure how popular a school is relative to it's size, NOT anything about the quality of education) and salary 10 years after enrollment, which is MAYBE a better metric (assuming you value $$ over all else), except that the DOE lumps campuses together and only presents data from those who received federal aid (rather than the entire population of students). But even then I'd probably shift that to 10 years after graduation (not enrollment) because that would allow for post-graduate education to factor in better.

And, you raging dunce, this thread is about Pitt. That's why people are talking about Pitt.
 
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Just to be clear :) ..... no.

I am saying you don't have squadoosh.
Not a germ of a clue, about damn near anything.
(You want me to "say it" more emphatically than that? Or do you get the picture now?)

But, that was already abundantly clear. :)

So, time to be done with you.
You have no evidence to support your point. So we are equal footing there.

There difference is that you continue (not just in this thread, but in others) to disseminate various statistics which, when examined closely, do not support your story in the way you want them to.

Me: There is no good quantitative way to discriminate between a bevy of world class universities.

You: PSU is terrible and here are 37 mis-represented statistics that I claim show why, but really don't.

I'll let the audience decide who the more rational poster is.

Enjoy your day.
 
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You have no evidence to support your point. So we are equal footing there.

There difference is that you continue (not just in this thread, but in others) to disseminate various statistics which, when examined closely, do not support your story in the way you want them to.

Me: There is no good quantitative way to discriminate between a bevy of world class universities.

You: PSU is terrible and here are 37 mis-represented statistics that I claim show why, but really don't.

I'll let the audience decide who the more rational poster is.

Enjoy your day.

Mic drop!
 
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