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The Open just got interesting

This puts some juice into Quail Hallow. JS goes for the grands slam. Would he be the youngest ever?
 
Give Spieth credit, he was very gracious in his victory speech and a credit to the "sportsmanship" Golf rules promote - a true gentleman as a competitor (as is Kuchar). I thought it was particularly courageous of him to acknowledge that his taking 20 minutes to play a shot (it was actually even longer than that in reality - closer to 30 minutes from when he had "next shot honors") - as the announcers had pointed out prior to this event, the group was already playing painfully slow due to JS's play. But again, it takes a "big man" and a lot of courage to admit in that situation he had probably disadvantaged Kutchar far beyond the "grey area" of the rulebook and to acknowledge Kutchar's strength, toughness and character in accepting the situation with tremendous grace and class. He took his hat off to Kuchar and acknowledged him and his character as a "man", not just a competitor. Have a lot more respect for Spieth after that acceptance speech.
 
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If Jordan finally figures out his driver he will be as good as I've ever seen. Right now he just finds a way to win.......often in crazy ways.
 
Was the 25 minute break really fair to Kuchar? I don't believe it was a factor in the outcome, but I believe there should have been either an effort made to speed up play there, or a one stroke penalty on Spieth.
 
If Jordan finally figures out his driver he will be as good as I've ever seen. Right now he just finds a way to win.......often in crazy ways.

Doesn't have the length or ball-striking ability to win on the most demanding tight and long "US Open" tracks with rough off the fairway that requires more "power" than JS has to deal with (especially the primary rough which is usually only a couple feet from the fairway) -- courses like Oakmont. Still say that JS is at a distinct disadvantage to the absolute best, most-powerful, ball-strikers on "traditional US Open Courses" and the only reason he won the 2015 Open was because it was at Chambers Bay, which is the most "non-traditional US Open Course" to ever host an open and is more of what I would call a "gimmicky" tough course, more than a "traditional US Open" just flat-out demanding course from it's natural layout.
 
Was the 25 minute break really fair to Kuchar? I don't believe it was a factor in the outcome, but I believe there should have been either an effort made to speed up play there, or a one stroke penalty on Spieth.

If Kuchar fell apart after the break, I'd be concerned it disadvantaged him significantly. Thing is, Kuchar didn't fall apart, he still played well, Spieth just went nuts.

After Kuchar took a one stroke lead on that hole, he then played the next three holes 1 under par. Yet he fell behind by 2 strokes in that span.
 
Doesn't have the length or ball-striking ability to win on the most demanding tight and long "US Open" tracks with rough off the fairway that requires more "power" than JS has to deal with (especially the primary rough which is usually only a couple feet from the fairway) -- courses like Oakmont. Still say that JS is at a distinct disadvantage to the absolute best, most-powerful, ball-strikers on "traditional US Open Courses" and the only reason he won the 2015 Open was because it was at Chambers Bay, which is the most "non-traditional US Open Course" to ever host an open and is more of what I would call a "gimmicky" tough course, more than a "traditional US Open" just flat-out demanding course from it's natural layout.
I'll take Spieth's career over an air headed, ball-striking coke-fiend like DJ any day
 
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Disappointed in Koepka's play today. It was certainly within his reach.
 
..."JS is at a distinct disadvantage to the very best, most powerful ball strikers... just who are they?...
...and who among them has won three majors at Jordan's age?...
...and who among them would not trade where they are now for where Jordan is and the potential that he has?... hmmm...
 
I thought Spieth was "toast" when he had that shit show going on at 13 with the unplayable lie. He certainly made Mr. Know It All (Johnny Miller) look stupid, however. Johnny kept saying he should go back to the tee. Jordan would never have made bogey if he goes back to the tee. I thought he was in major meltdown mode, and, after his meltdown at The Masters (The American Masters ;)), I was just sick watching him take that 20 minute drop. It was possible that he never would win a major again if he collapsed today. Boy did he display some fortitude on the back nine.
 
All the talk about Spieth's "short stick" potentially costing him the tournament has been greatly exaggerated.... Spieth's greatest advantage is his putter - without his putting ability, he's a decent, but not dominant player as his "ball striking" ability is really very average at the PGA level especially in regards to his length. On more demanding tracks in terms of ball striking (especially those that demand both length and accuracy), he is at his greatest disadvantage relative to the best ball-strikers as he just doesn't have the number of quality birdie attempts and 2-putt pars (i.e., GIR) that the absolute best pure ball-strikers can generate.

In addition, I completely disagree with the NBC announcer's and "golf analyst's" contention that speed of play rules should not be enforced on the inward 9 of the final round of a major for the final several pairings as they are focusing harder and are more deliberate at getting everything "right". Complete nonsense if you ask me - once "speed of play rules" and definitions for warnings, penalties, etc... are encoded into the rulebook, they should be enforced regardless of what round or tournament is being contested under those "Professional Rules". Utter nonsense that the "speed of play rules" should be simply set-aside for the inward 9 of the final round just because its a Major Tournament.....that is a nonsensical statement and antithetical to what a "rule" is all about and why it exists in the first place! (i.e., the "slow play" of some competitors, such as Spieth....or Garcia, is extremely detrimental to other competitors that hate playing at this deliberate pace.....and it is supposed to be illegal to "straight-jacket" other competitors with your absurdly slow, frustrating-to-other-competitors, pace of play).
Translation in thirty words or less:

Spieth is a great putter and that separates him from better ball strikers.

The speed of play rule should be enforced regardless of the position of your pairing.
 
Credit to JS putting the wheels back on after a tough start. Lots of HOF's would have not recovered (looking at you Greg Norman).

Video going around of JS "nut punching" his caddie in the locker room after the win. They were casually walking past each other as JS fulfilled his winners obligations and JS just nut punches the dude, ever so casually. Pretty funny stuff.
 
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..."JS is at a distinct disadvantage to the very best, most powerful ball strikers... just who are they?...
...and who among them has won three majors at Jordan's age?...
...and who among them would not trade where they are now for where Jordan is and the potential that he has?... hmmm...
Just a lot of Bushwood hot air. Same as it ever was.
 
Translation in thirty words or less:

Spieth is a great putter and that separates him from better ball strikers.

The speed of play rule should be enforced regardless of the position of your pairing.

I thought that the 25 minute mark, was excessive and should have been penalized.
 
"The speed of play should be enforced regardless of your pairing".
I was simply editing Bushwood's usual thousand word post into a readable form. If he had to pay per useless words he'd have been broke long ago.

Yes, I agree about speed of play. Spieth is slow. So was Norman. So was Nicklaus. I hate it.
 
I thought that the 25 minute mark, was excessive and should have been penalized.

I see what you're saying but there were many marshalls there who were all trying to figure out the answers to many questions. If it was simply JS playing slowly that is 1 thing but you had literally dozens of marshalls all with radios trying to figure where the legal relief would be and is the practice range in play ... not a simple answer
 
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Spieth starts the day leading by three.....wins by three.....two 69s.....move along, nothing to see here!

:D
 
To his credit, Spieth apologized to Kuchar once he finally got up to the 13th green. To do so publically in his acceptance speech was a nice touch.
 
I see what you're saying but there were many marshalls there who were all trying to figure out the answers to many questions. If it was simply JS playing slowly that is 1 thing but you had literally dozens of marshalls all with radios trying to figure where the legal relief would be and is the practice range in play ... not a simple answer

All except the announcers had previously said that the group had lost enough distance to the group in front of them (due to JS's slow play) that they should have been warned already prior to this event occurring (the NBC crew then opined that no warning should be given because it was the inward 9 of a Major, which is absurd commentary imho - a rule is a rule). BTW, there are no allowances for the rules being waived just because Rules Officials are on the scene. Also BTW, the Rules Officials don't make the decision as to what the player wants to do - he has to propose his approach to the officials and they will tell him whether his proposed approach for the drop is within the Rulebook. The problem on the near 30 minute delay on JS's drop in question was that JS would not make up his mind as to what he wanted to do and propose what he wanted to do to the Rules Officials present! The notion that the Rules Officials tell JS what he's going to do, and that was the problem in the massive delay, is the product of a fundamental lack of understanding (i.e., "ignorance") how this situation actually works in a regulated competitive golf tournament, so I really don't want to debate this topic in this regard, because your interpretation is simply not correct as to what CAUSED the massive delay.

Most of the time there are "drop areas" set up to contend with grandstands, etc... In this instance, there was no "drop area" because it wasn't a grandstand that had anything to do with the hole JS was playing (JS was more than 100 yards off-line with his drive and multiple fairways off line apparently). His choices were pretty straightforward in actuality even without marked "drop areas" - he was entitled to "line of flight" relief as far back as he as he needed to go such that the grandstands were no longer a non-permanent "man-made obstruction.....or go all the way to the tee as JM wrongly opined and recommended was the best choice.

Essentially, the only thing the Rules Officials confirm is that he has taken a proper drop on that "line of flight" once JS proposes a general area that he intends to drop where he believes the grandstands are no longer an impediment. Again, the delay was caused by JS refusing to propose his intended drop area (at one point he was kneeling on one knee in a grass area behind and between the grandstands he had hit into and effectively meditating rather than interacting with the Rules Officials as to what he intended to do in regards to his next shot!).

The entire thing was absurd and a bit comical given that rules officials only give players 5 minutes to find a "lost ball" once they (i.e., player and caddy...and playing partner if they join in) reach the area of landing and begin searching by Rule - and they absolutely notify the player once that "clock" has been started. IOW, if a player literally finds the ball a couple seconds after the Official 5 minute clock has expired, they can play the ball and must take a penalty and play the provisional they hit......but in this instance, the Rules officials allowed JS to dilly-dally around for well over 20 minutes before making any decision as to how he was going to play his 2nd Shot (he already knew and was told by the Rules Officials that he was entitled to relief under the Rulebook for an "Identified/Marked Man-Made Temporary Obstruction") - the delay was that he refused to make a proposed decision regarding his drop to initiate his 2nd shot.
 
All except the announcers had previously said that the group had lost enough distance to the group in front of them (due to JS's slow play) that they should have been warned already prior to this event occurring (the NBC crew then opined that no warning should be given because it was the inward 9 of a Major, which is absurd commentary imho - a rule is a rule). BTW, there are no allowances for the rules being waived just because Rules Officials are on the scene. Also BTW, the Rules Officials don't make the decision as to what the player wants to do - he has to propose his approach to the officials and they will tell him whether his proposed approach for the drop is within the Rulebook. The problem on the near 30 minute delay on JS's drop in question was that JS would not make up his mind as to what he wanted to do and propose what he wanted to do to the Rules Officials present! The notion that the Rules Officials tell JS what he's going to do, and that was the problem in the massive delay, is the product of a fundamental lack of understanding (i.e., "ignorance") how this situation actually works in a regulated competitive golf tournament, so I really don't want to debate this topic in this regard, because your interpretation is simply not correct as to what CAUSED the massive delay.

Most of the time there are "drop areas" set up to contend with grandstands, etc... In this instance, there was no "drop area" because it wasn't a grandstand that had anything to do with the hole JS was playing (JS was more than 100 yards off-line with his drive and multiple fairways off line apparently). His choices were pretty straightforward in actuality even without marked "drop areas" - he was entitled to "line of flight" relief as far back as he as he needed to go such that the grandstands were no longer a non-permanent "man-made obstruction.....or go all the way to the tee as JM wrongly opined and recommended was the best choice.

Essentially, the only thing the Rules Officials confirm is that he has taken a proper drop on that "line of flight" once JS proposes a general area that he intends to drop where he believes the grandstands are no longer an impediment. Again, the delay was caused by JS refusing to propose his intended drop area (at one point he was kneeling on one knee in a grass area behind and between the grandstands he had hit into and effectively meditating rather than interacting with the Rules Officials as to what he intended to do in regards to his next shot!).

The entire thing was absurd and a bit comical given that rules officials only give players 5 minutes to find a "lost ball" once they (i.e., player and caddy...and playing partner if they join in) reach the area of landing and begin searching by Rule - and they absolutely notify the player once that "clock" has been started. IOW, if a player literally finds the ball a couple seconds after the Official 5 minute clock has expired, they can play the ball and must take a penalty and play the provisional they hit......but in this instance, the Rules officials allowed JS to dilly-dally around for well over 20 minutes before making any decision as to how he was going to play his 2nd Shot (he already knew and was told by the Rules Officials that he was entitled to relief under the Rulebook for an "Identified/Marked Man-Made Temporary Obstruction") - the delay was that he refused to make a proposed decision regarding his drop to initiate his 2nd shot.

So the R&A should penalize themselves 2 strokes for being slow to make decisions as well.
 
Bushy - They were told by officials to pick up the pace prior to the 13th hole marathon as they were out of position. Not sure if it was an "official" warning or not.
 
Bushy - They were told by officials to pick up the pace prior to the 13th hole marathon as they were out of position. Not sure if it was an "official" warning or not.
It was. It came from a European PGA official. Now Bushy will respond with a 1000 words. Bushy should give up writing, maybe try smoke signals.
 
Bushy - They were told by officials to pick up the pace prior to the 13th hole marathon as they were out of position. Not sure if it was an "official" warning or not.

Okay, but it was ridiculous that they didn't tell JS to speed up his decision-making in regards to what he was going to do and where he intended to drop if that is what he was going to do. When they showed him kneeling on one knee 20 minutes into the episode still contemplating his options, it was pretty telling. They're very strict about the 5-minute time limit on looking for a "lost ball", but hey no problem, take 25 minutes to make a decision regarding a free-drop from a man-made obstruction.....good grief was that ridiculous imho, wasn't nearly as complicated as JS was determined to make it seem.
 
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Okay, but it was ridiculous that they didn't tell JS to speed up his decision-making in regards to what he was going to do and where he intended to drop if that is what he was going to do. When they showed him kneeling on one knee 20 minutes into the episode still contemplating his options, it was pretty telling. They're very strict about the 5-minute time limit on looking for a "lost ball", but hey no problem, take 25 minutes to make a decision regarding a free-drop from a man-made obstruction.....good grief was that ridiculous imho, wasn't nearly as complicated as JS was determined to make it seem.

With everything recorded these days on camera and all the arm chair officials could you imagine if they got it wrong and all the Monday morning qbs tweeted in saying so... would rather the officials and JS take a few extra minutes and get it right
 
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With everything recorded these days on camera and all the arm chair officials could you imagine if they got it wrong and all the Monday morning qbs tweeted in saying so... would rather the officials and JS take a few extra minutes and get it right

The situation was really not all that complicated or unusual (i.e., relief from an identified and marked Temporary Man-made Obstruction). Again, it is not the Rules Officials that caused JS to take forever in regards to what permissible option he was going to take under the rulebook (the Rule's Officials only confirm the details such as line of flight of the ball relative to relief sought, etc...). The fundamental problem was that JS took forever to make a decision, which he is not supposed to be permitted to do.
 
With everything recorded these days on camera and all the arm chair officials could you imagine if they got it wrong and all the Monday morning qbs tweeted in saying so... would rather the officials and JS take a few extra minutes and get it right


I agree. Trying to determine and go back on an extended straight line from the pin to where his drive ended up is tough when you're going back 75-100 yds and have no view of the pin. THEN finding the proper closest point of relief without going closer to the hole was not easy. AND only then did the Marshalls FINALLY start getting the spectators out of the way.

Wish NBC had a blimp or a drone that could have shown an aerial shot of the whole process.

I'm very critical of Spieth's continual slow play, but I cut him slack on this process today. I'm not sure anyone else in his position on 13 today could have been much faster.
 
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I agree. Trying to determine and go back on an extended straight line from the pin to where his drive ended up is tough when you're going back 75-100 yds and have no view of the pin. THEN finding the proper closest point of relief without going closer to the hole was not easy. AND only then did the Marshalls FINALLY start getting the spectators out of the way.

Wish NBC had a blimp or a drone that could have shown an aerial shot of the whole process.

I'm very critical of Spieth's continual slow play, but I cut him slack on this process today. I'm not sure anyone else in his position on 13 today could have been much faster.


Usually the Rules Officials will attempt to make is easier on themselves an player by placing two of the little red flags in a line at the ball and some distance straight back on a "nearest relief" line, then that line can be extended backwards as necessary without having to constantly re-establish "the line".
 
Jordan had to find his ball, which despite all the people out there, they still had a problem finding it. Once he found it, he had to figure out if he could advance it. Once he decided to declare it unplayable, that brought a whole ton of options into play. He asked the rules official with the group if the range was OB. The official had to call in other officials to get the answer. When they got the answer, they then had to figure out the line to stay within the unplayable rule. Once they found that line (keep in mind that there was that giant bluff in the way, not to mention a ton of people), it ended up between two equipment trucks, hence the line of sight ruling necessary, which is then a whole different process involving angles, protractors, and yardages. They finally find the right spot, he drops it, and now he has to get yardages and his line of shot and they have to keep moving people away. Given the terrain, the rules involved, and the amount of people gathered around, it wasn't going to be a 5-minute fix. Jordan's knowledge of the rules is what won him this Open. He considered all of his options and ended up picking the right one for his situation. The biggest stickler for pace of play amongst rules officials in the entire golf world was in on that ruling (the rotund gray-haired guy...his name is John Paramore, look him up) and if there was any timing issues, he would have had no problem dinging Jordan for it.
 
Usually the Rules Officials will attempt to make is easier on themselves an player by placing two of the little red flags in a line at the ball and some distance straight back on a "nearest relief" line, then that line can be extended backwards as necessary without having to constantly re-establish "the line".

Well today was not usual as the officials had no red flags on them so your beef is with them not JS
 
Okay, but it was ridiculous that they didn't tell JS to speed up his decision-making in regards to what he was going to do and where he intended to drop if that is what he was going to do. When they showed him kneeling on one knee 20 minutes into the episode still contemplating his options, it was pretty telling. They're very strict about the 5-minute time limit on looking for a "lost ball", but hey no problem, take 25 minutes to make a decision regarding a free-drop from a man-made obstruction.....good grief was that ridiculous imho, wasn't nearly as complicated as JS was determined to make it seem.
Think that was actually Kuchar they showed kneeling on one knee
 
..."JS is at a distinct disadvantage to the very best, most powerful ball strikers... just who are they?...
...and who among them has won three majors at Jordan's age?...
...and who among them would not trade where they are now for where Jordan is and the potential that he has?... hmmm...

Not trying to say that he isn't a great player. Saying his greatest advantage imho into future Majors will be The Masters and British Open due to his proficiency with the short stick.....the hardest Majors for him to win will be the PGA and US Open, with additional US Opens being the absolute hardest, due to "style of courses" selected. Courses selected for PGA and US Open are somewhat similar with the US Open venues typically being slightly more demanding (which wasn't true in 2015 @ Chambers Bay - I believe the USGA learned their lesson in selecting this "gimmicky" non-traditional venue and don't believe you will see it on the Open-Rotation any time soon. Maybe the PGA, but not the US Open imho, it's just fundamentally not a traditional "US Open Type" course).

Essentially PGA and US Open Courses, but especially traditional US Open venues, don't play to JS greatest strengths imho, while The Masters and British Open do. US Open Courses such as Oakmont, Baltusrol, Bethpage Black, etc...are penal, demanding courses that favor the purest, most-powerful "ball-strikers" who not only have the length to tame them, but also the "pure power" to be able to recover on shots that are even hit the slighest bit errant....JS is just at a significant disadvantage in not only the number of legit birdie attempts he will see, but also two-putt pars (i.e., GIR) on these types of courses and will not be able to make up this disadvantage with a couple of made putts. Putting is JS's greatest advantage, not tee-to-green power and pure ball-striking skills. JMO, but he will not win tons of US Opens and PGAs, but does have the game to win multiple Masters and British Opens....great player no matter how you slice it and not trying to say anything to suggest he is not.
 
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