The New C/S/S "Smoking Gun"?

[dshumbero]

Imbeciles, I guess including the OAG, are trying to put forth the FTR Statute of 1994 that they failed to report "abuse or suspected abuse". Excuse me, I thought the FTR and other serious charges were dropped?

This is a real stretch, to try and justify EWOC and a conspiracy. C/S/S were not responsible for TSM or any other children that came on campus, and especially those under the control of TSM and an ex-employee. Jerry was barred from bringing children on Campus after 2001, and Heim saw to it that he could use the downtown Sheraton instead. That is a matter of record.

Only an idiot(s) think that the FTR Statute applies, and at least one "MENSA" knucklehead believes this.

 

[elvis63]

Sad, just sad.

 

[lionlurker]

Dude, there is no smoking gun. There is only desperation on the part of the prosecutors and their lackeys.

Let it go, and get ready to enjoy the show, if it happens at all.

 

[elvis63]

Let's see jury selection starts 3/20, doesn't it? Maybe there is no smoking gun ? Or maybe there's smoking artillery ?
Either way jury selection is starting in ten days, people will know soon enough either way.

 

[lionlurker]

If there was smoking artillery, it would already be leaked in forensic detail. Freeh would have had it. PennLive would have been given it. CSS would have taken the absurdly easy plea deal and/or flipped on each other. Spanier wouldn't be in such a hurry to sue. Other than the ramblings of assorted crazy anonymous people, there is no evidence to the contrary.

 

[elvis63]

No, it necessarily. Keep positive though , dreams do come true!

 

[lionlurker]

The dreams are yours, dude. 5 years and counting. Hardly any charges left. No plea deal and no flips.

I'm the one dreaming?

I sure hope it happens, for everybody's sake, but I'll be shocked if it actually does. The game of chicken will go on. The prosecutor has no other choice.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

The dreams are yours, dude. 5 years and counting. Hardly any charges left. No plea deal and no flips.

I'm the one dreaming?

I sure hope it happens, for everybody's sake, but I'll be shocked if it actually does. The game of chicken will go on. The prosecutor has no other choice.

Quite possible, but the prosecution wins nothing by limping into a courtroom with nothing when they can simply drop the remaining charges. Why play chicken if you know you can't win and can simply walk away...it makes no sense. I hope they get to finally have their say one way or the other.

 

[didier]

20+ filings from all parties two weeks ago and nothing unsealed. Odd.

 

[elvis63]

The dreams are yours, dude. 5 years and counting. Hardly any charges left. No plea deal and no flips.

I'm the one dreaming?

I sure hope it happens, for everybody's sake, but I'll be shocked if it actually does. The game of chicken will go on. The prosecutor has no other choice.

We find out soon enough.

 

[indynittany]

If there was a smoking gun, these cases would have been plead out.

 

[lionlurker]

Quite possible, but the prosecution wins nothing by limping into a courtroom with nothing when they can simply drop the remaining charges. Why play chicken if you know you can't win and can simply walk away...it makes no sense. I hope they get to finally have their say one way or the other.

Except for the massive fallout that is going to occur if/when this happens. There's so much invested in this politically and financially, to wait 5 years and then to just walk away will look ridiculous. Someone is bound to ask the question about why it took 5 years.

It's still a game of chicken. They still hope/want these guys to take sweetheart plea deals that will forbid them to talk. They aren't doing that, which is why I suspect we are seeing the underground activity swelling, to try to sow some seeds of doubt. It's not an accident that these ghosts have suddenly become active again, speaking ominously about new information that will surely put their asses behind bars.

Yawn.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Except for the massive fallout that is going to occur if/when this happens. There's so much invested in this politically and financially, to wait 5 years and then to just walk away will look ridiculous. Someone is bound to ask the question about why it took 5 years.

It's still a game of chicken. They still hope/want these guys to take sweetheart plea deals that will forbid them to talk. They aren't doing that, which is why I suspect we are seeing the underground activity swelling, to try to sow some seeds of doubt.

True. If you CSS you don't want to take a plea at this point in order to be muted if you really didn't do anything wrong. You want your name cleared and you want your side of the story finally told. Pride before the fall will work itself out one way or the other soon enough.

 

[bdgan]

Quite possible, but the prosecution wins nothing by limping into a courtroom with nothing when they can simply drop the remaining charges. Why play chicken if you know you can't win and can simply walk away...it makes no sense. I hope they get to finally have their say one way or the other.

The state would be hugely criticized if they dropped this case. That's why they would take a weak case forward.

 

[lionlurker]

The time for taking plea deals passed long ago. If all of a sudden they change their minds, we can conclude that something new did indeed come up, but there is zero going on to indicate this. These guys have good counsel who aren't easily intimidated.

 

[getmyjive11]

The time for taking plea deals passed long ago. If all of a sudden they change their minds, we can conclude that something new did indeed come up, but there is zero going on to indicate this. These guys have good counsel who aren't easily intimidated.

In the end, this trial will not change anything regardless of the outcome. The 2001 law is on CSS's side, so I don't expect them to get convicted. If we were dealing with present day law, they would be in serious trouble.

 

[bjf1991]

Let's see......... how many different "legal proceedings" (including trials) have taken place over the last 5 years?

How many of them - when they were over - led to anyone "knowing" anything?

ANSWER: None

How many of them - when they were over - led to everyone thinking "WTF", and having more questions than they did before the trial?

ANSWER: All of them

Maybe this one will be different


I guess there is always a "Jim-Carey-Dumb-and-Dumber" Chance.........
But the odds of "True Enlightenement" vs another "Circle-Jerk of Death".........
I'm thinking the oddsmakers would have "C-J of D" as about a 20-1 favorite

 

[interrobang]

If we were dealing with present day law, then a lot more people would have been charged.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

The state would be hugely criticized if they dropped this case. That's why they would take a weak case forward.

They will also get criticized for ruining these guys lives with a lame duck case and no evidence. The thing is this is now 5+ years later and the torches are all but out so if they did drop it...it would be on the crawl for a day or so and then be done. Now people in PA or connected to the university would be in an uproar, but I don't think it will be anything like the sh!tstorm from years ago. I'm pretty open minded when it comes to this case, but I think the state better be able to show these guys were acting with some type of malice or known total disregard....or basically it was the PC media driven with hunt many suspect it is.

 

[bjf1991]

If we were dealing with present day law, then a lot more people would have been charged.

In Pennsylvania, at least:

The "law" has nothing to do with the Law.

That should be clear enough by now.

 

[interrobang]

True. McQueary, McQueary, Dranov and TSM should have been charged with crimes for 2001 if C/S/S are.

 

[elvis63]

True. If you CSS you don't want to take a plea at this point in order to be muted if you really didn't do anything wrong. You want your name cleared and you want your side of the story finally told. Pride before the fall will work itself out one way or the other soon enough.

I think you're right.

 

[elvis63]

True. McQueary, McQueary, Dranov and TSM should have been charged with crimes for 2001 if C/S/S are.

No

 

[bdgan]

They will also get criticized for ruining these guys lives with a lame duck case and no evidence. The thing is this is now 5+ years later and the torches are all but out so if they did drop it...it would be on the crawl for a day or so and then be done. Now people in PA or connected to the university would be in an uproar, but I don't think it will be anything like the sh!tstorm from years ago. I'm pretty open minded when it comes to this case, but I think the state better be able to show these guys were acting with some type of malice or known total disregard....or basically it was the PC media driven with hunt many suspect it is.

I don't agree. They can continue to argue that these men are guilty but it was difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt (or that they got off on a technicality).

 

[bdgan]

No

Why do you think that Dranov, TSM, etc, had less responsibility to report than C&S?

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I don't agree. They can continue to argue that these men are guilty but it was difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt (or that they got off on a technicality).

Quite possible, but unless the 3 signed a deal they could finally speak up and give their side of the story. Like elvis has stated...soon enough we'll hopefully get some answers. For better or worse. I don't have a chisel and stone ready just yet.

 

[lubrano]

I am aware of no smoking gun.

I am concerned that C/S/S can get a fair trial because of the taint caused by the OAG with it's false Presentment ( thank you Joelle Eshbach and Frank Fina). The jury pool is surely poisoned.

I fully expect the OAG to try to call a post 2/01 victim in an effort to further outrage the jury.

With most of the charges dismissed, Tim and Gary must decide whether they will take the stand. I hope they do but I know this strategy comes with some risk but I think a jury will want to hear from them.

I want them to play to win rather than to play not to lose.

I do not believe, however, that the state can prove their case. My fear is they won't need to given the aforementioned taint.

 

[lionlurker]

Well, hopefully good lawyers can help overcome the taint. It's not going to catch them by surprise, and they've had the opportunity to punt on it, and have chosen not to.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

How about we actually hear the evidence or lack there of before we start the unfair trial card? Just a thought.

 

[lionlurker]

How about we actually hear the evidence or lack there of before we start the unfair trial card? Just a thought.

True enough. Particularly since there doesn't seem to be any evidence.

 

[interrobang]

No

Why? They reported as much to police as C/S/S did. In fact they are the ones that decided that an ongoing first-hand account wasn't worth calling police about. If that's not failure to report, I don't know what is.

 

[elvis63]

In white collar crime the devil is in the detail such as testimony, and communications. In these cases all the evidence is never publicly available before the trial because you don't have witness testimony yet.

 

[francofan]

I'm pretty open minded when it comes to this case, but I think the state better be able to show these guys were acting with some type of malice or known total disregard....or basically it was the PC media driven with hunt many suspect it is.

I beg to differ. You don't seem to understand the way the OAG polluted the jury pool with their false grand jury presentment that Mike McQueary witnessed an anal rape and that the reason that Curley and Schultz were charged was to silent them and to try to get them to flip to implicate Spanier. I hope that Curley, Schultz, and Spanier will finally be able to speak their minds and give their perspective of what happened. I believe that they will say that in 2001 that they had no indication that Sandusky committed a crime and molested anybody, and further that in 2017 they have not heard any conclusive evidence that Sandusky molested anyone.

 

[elvis63]

Why? They reported as much to police as C/S/S did. In fact they are the ones that decided that an ongoing first-hand account wasn't worth calling police about. If that's not failure to report, I don't know what is.

You are correct on the I don't know part.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I beg to differ. You don't seem to understand the way the OAG polluted the jury pool with their false grand jury presentment that Mike McQueary witnessed an anal rape and that the reason that Curley and Schultz were charged was to silent them and to try to get them to flip to implicate Spanier. I hope that Curley, Schultz, and Spanier will finally be able to speak their minds and give their perspective of what happened. I believe that they will say that in 2001 that they had no indication that Sandusky committed a crime and molested anybody, and further that in 2017 they have not heard any conclusive evidence that Sandusky molested anyone.

Of course you think that Steve because you still don't think Jerry is a pedophile. What they know now versus 2001 will differ, but I doubt they go up on the stand saying Jerry is innocent...sorry to burst that bubble for you. I can wait to hear what they actually say versus your guesses on what you think they may say. They aren't going to be defending Jerry for you at their own trials...not gonna happen. They had conversations about calling folks and they did call TSM...so this idea that they had NO indication of anything is false. To what extent they knew is totally up for debate. I don't think they really could wrap their heads around what Jerry was doing much like you still can't to this day even when his victims testified to it. They didn't have that information available to them to deny like you do.

 

[francofan]

Of course you think that Steve because you still don't think Jerry was pedophile. What they know now versus 2017 will differ, but I doubt they go up on the stand saying Jerry is innocent...sorry to burst that bubble for you.

I don't think they will either, but after they are exonerated, I think that it is likely that they will say that don't believe Jerry's trial was fair. When they are exonerated, it will give Sandusky's PCRA a boost as one of the PCRA issues is that Curley and Schultz were charged so that they wouldn't be able to testify in Sandusky's trial and impeach McQueary. Even Judge Cleland conceeded the problem with going ahead with the trial before the issues of Curley and Schultz's culpability had been resolved.

 

[elvis63]

I beg to differ. You don't seem to understand the way the OAG polluted the jury pool with their false grand jury presentment that Mike McQueary witnessed an anal rape and that the reason that Curley and Schultz were charged was to silent them and to try to get them to flip to implicate Spanier. I hope that Curley, Schultz, and Spanier will finally be able to speak their minds and give their perspective of what happened. I believe that they will say that in 2001 that they had no indication that Sandusky committed a crime and molested anybody, and further that in 2017 they have not heard any conclusive evidence that Sandusky molested anyone.

Every famous criminal case tries the polluted jury angle but somehow trials do happen .

 

[NittPicker]

Of course you think that Steve because you still don't think Jerry is a pedophile. What they know now versus 2001 will differ, but I doubt they go up on the stand saying Jerry is innocent...sorry to burst that bubble for you. I can wait to hear what they actually say versus your guesses on what you think they may say. They aren't going to be defending Jerry for you at their own trials...not gonna happen. They had conversations about calling folks and they did call TSM...so this idea that they had NO indication of anything is false. To what extent they knew is totally up for debate. I don't think they really could wrap their heads around what Jerry was doing much like you still can't to this day even when his victims testified to it. They didn't have that information available to them to deny like you do.

It would be ridiculous for them to attempt to retry the Sandusky as a defense. There is no correlation between Sandusky's guilt and theirs. Many people still think C/S/S were charged with as many counts as Sandusky but we all know that isn't true. They were charged regarding only one event and that was what MM did/didn't see and what they did/didn't do afterward. The prosecution will try to make it sound as though C/S/S were evil masterminds who were running interference for Sandusky which on its face is a crazy assertion.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I don't think they will either, but after they are exonerated, I think that it is likely that they will say that don't believe Jerry's trial was fair. When they are exonerated, it will give Sandusky's PCRA a boost as one of the PCRA issues is that Curley and Schultz were charged so that they wouldn't be able to testify in Sandusky's trial and impeach McQueary. Even Judge Cleland conceeded the problem with going ahead with the trial before the issues of Curley and Schultz's culpability had been resolved.

I don't care really what your crystal ball says. I don't think they give a flying f--k about Jerry to be honest because he is the only legitimate reason any of this happened to them. One trial has nothing to do with the other, but in your head you have them tied to the hip. You also have this notion that they are concerned for Jerry which I don't know to be true one way or the other. You can talk about McQueary until your blue in the face, but the testimony at Jerry's trial that sunk him was that of the victims. Stop taking this to Jerry,,,,it's not about him anymore. If they win this case or are exonerated, it's because they didn't hide things on purpose...it will not do a damn thing for anyone else.

 

[WeR0206]

Why? They reported as much to police as C/S/S did. In fact they are the ones that decided that an ongoing first-hand account wasn't worth calling police about. If that's not failure to report, I don't know what is.

Therin lies the catch 22 for MM and the state. If his 2010 version is true then he, his dad, and Dr. D should also be charged and have no excuse for not going to police since MM was supposedly 99% sure a kid was getting raped. If it isn't then MM played revionist history for a corrupt OAG trying to hide the state's own failings which is a whole other can of worms.

MM is going to get destroyed on the stand. The state's double standard will get exposed. The state via their selective charges are holding college admins to a higher standard than the first people told about the report (JM and Dr D) and the child care experts and mandatory reporters at TSM who were also invovled in the reporting chain.

This trial, if it ever happens, will expose the double standard being used by OAG and also shine light on TSM/OAG's MASSIVE failure wrt oversight of JS and his access to kids (surely the defense point out how JR and a few board members at TSM decided to bury Curleys report). No wonder the OAG has been dragging feet for so long.