The future of higher education

[Nitt1300]

How do you see the future? I wonder how (and honestly-why) brick and mortar institutions survive long term. With the availability of more and more on-line options, especially for bachelors degrees, will students still be willing (and able) to take on the debt for attending a traditional 4 year college? Would you?

I'm certainly no expert on university administration, but it looks to me like major changes are coming- and sooner than I would have thought just a few years ago. What do you think?

 

[mrtailgate]

I guess economics will dictate but so much of the experience is in the time going away, starting the process of moving beyond your parents reach, developing maturity, etc. But economics play a huge role in this and will win out in a large majority of cases.

My son is getting his MBA currently. He is taking an on line accelerated course this time to get two courses in during the time he would have completed one. You would expect a price difference between the two but there isn’t.

 

[LionJim]

Smaller colleges are really going to find the going rough. What is it going to be like in thirty years for Shippensburg or Slippery Rock?

 

[nitanee123]

Smaller colleges are really going to find the going rough. What is it going to be like in thirty years for Shippensburg or Slippery Rock?

As they should. Frankly, all colleges and universities should find it tough as well.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Campuses will become historic mill river towns, car clubs and motorcycle clubs will ride through these Ghost Universities and eat overpriced burgers and fries and buy tee-shirts. The NFL, Online Universities, sports networks will buy the campuses for minor league teams they place there.... human to human communications will continue to decline until the point that all these facilities become an Acropolis in a sand storm.

Just think of the new song lyrics.....'For the Glory of old packet bit' or will that be 'For the glory of old Frame." ?
fraternity names will be 10001 11000 010101 and such.

Life will go on.

 

[BobPSU92]

Paging barry on Line .

 

[PS4814]

As long as employers keep the asinine requirement of having a bachelors for entry level positions that truly only require some on the job training, or possibly a 1 year certification program at a technical school / community college, nothing will ever change. People will continue to attend college because they see it as their way to a living(ish) wage. More should attend trade schools as those are jobs as desperately needed, but that wasn't the question asked.

 

[PS4814]

Smaller colleges are really going to find the going rough. What is it going to be like in thirty years for Shippensburg or Slippery Rock?

They'll look pretty much the same, plus a few new buildings would be my guess. There are reasons that colleges and universities have endured through the decades and will continue to do so no matter what bubble bursts. You think the state will let colleges such as Slippery Rock and Ship struggle or fail? Look into Cheyney University sometime (another PASSHE school) and the lengths they've gone to keep it running.

 

[Evan Ceg]

The academically elite Ivy-types will always have a marketplace for residential higher education, and the large research universities will survive but will be significantly smaller and transformed, but many middling liberal arts institutions will disappear. Some of the four-year residential universities will effectively become upper division (junior and senior year) colleges as community college degrees and online courses will reduce resident education. Not at all sure college athletics as we know it will survive in the long run. State and family budgets will call the tune. Current economic model of higher ed is not sustainable.

 

[blion72]

The academically elite Ivy-types will always have a marketplace for residential higher education, and the large research universities will survive but will be significantly smaller and transformed, but many middling liberal arts institutions will disappear. Some of the four-year residential universities will effectively become upper division (junior and senior year) colleges as community college degrees and online courses will reduce resident education. Not at all sure college athletics as we know it will survive in the long run. State and family budgets will call the tune. Current economic model of higher ed is not sustainable.

i am involved in this industry, and most of what everyone is saying is true. let me throw is some key things we should keep an eye on:

• the comment re the employment market and degrees is critical. watch for the day when employers move to some comprehensive intake testing system as the primary selection method, and recognize non-traditional education.
• employers are now getting much more picky about specific degrees. the day IBM hires a Harvard history major because they think they are talented and will invest is largely over. they want a finished product when the hire students now.
• if something like Coursera or other open source on-line programs ever get accreditation for degrees that will quickly disrupt the traditional schools.
• there is a growing market for on-line degree programs from leading schools like PSU - and this will become a force to reduce the need for space at traditional schools.
• economics of many schools are bleeding due to athletics (UAB drop FB idea), and they are dropping more sports. much of the red ink is funding too many sports that cannot take care of themselves. an idea that periodically gets traction is turning the entire sports program into an external club/corp that has to take care of itself. that would divorce the sports governance and issues from the school. i have never heard anyone say that schools exist to support sports, and you are hearing more Presidents say they cannot cover them from internal funding any longer.
• small private schools are going to be the first to fail. there is a declining body of consumers for their product (price)
• state legislatures are now benchmarking nationally and are getting very aggressive re tuition control and state aid to schools. in some states they are already pushing the least competitive into fiscal watch. some are proposing a merger of higher ed schools and community colleges by region. then you can start pruning down the buildings and shrinking based on a merged shrinking enrollment.
• state share of instruction funding is moving more to merit based retention, graduation, etc. there is a growing realization that about 25% of the students entering 4 year schools should really be going to community colleges. schools taking these students for revenue are also losing state support.
• overhead at schools is made up of many functions that would never exist in a real world organization. Compliance departments are many times the size of a typical large company. Title IX actually has an association of officers nationally - a stupid specialty. because schools seem to be responsible for students no matter where they go, staff positions exist to deal with the incidents. no normal company would ever put up with this stuff.

 

[Nitwit]

The university system as we know it has already been changing due to economics (see Adelphia merging with Jefferson Med School or the sale of Westminster Choir College by Rider). But the better schools will continue to prosper because there will always be a market for learning at the highest level. Not everyone goes to college in order to get a job, although usually that becomes the result. Many value education on non economic terms. Do you want to go through life without knowing anything or do you want to be a scholar? Doctors, lawyers, professors, writers, artists, .... thinkers - value the educational opportunities or in the case of graduate schools, research opportunities that only traditional universities can provide. It’s not all about if I pay this amount of tuition I will earn this salary. For many it’s more like if I go to this university I will live the rest of my life as an enlightened learned individual and my life will be richer as a result of it. Education has a great non economic value that we derive every day. There is a reason that so many of our world leaders, corporate CEOs, and other intellectuals are graduates of the best universities.

 

[blion72]

The university system as we know it has already been changing due to economics (see Adelphia merging with Jefferson Med School or the sale of Westminster Choir College by Rider). But the better schools will continue to prosper because there will always be a market for learning at the highest level. Not everyone goes to college in ordei r to get a job, although usually that becomes the result. Many value education on non economic terms. Do you want to go through life without knowing anything or do you want to be a scholar? Doctors, lawyers, professors, writers, artists, .... thinkers - value the educational opportunities or in the case of graduate schools, research opportunities that only traditional universities can provide. It’s not all about if I pay this amount of tuition I will earn this salary. For many it’s more like if I go to this university I will live the rest of my life as an enlightened learned individual and my life will be richer as a result of it. Education has a great non economic value that we derive every day. There is a reason that so many of our world leaders, corporate CEOs, and other intellectuals are graduates of the best universities.

i meet very few students who are seeking knowledge = not saying that is a good idea, but it is what it is.

we have a new class of college educated poverty. just was at a Starbucks not far from South Bend, and the barista was a graduate of Hamilton College in NY with a degree in European art history. she was talking to the person ahead of me who was a family friend and said her school debt was over $160k. she said she was sub teaching and working at SBucks for some benefits. i think she was probably a great person, but living in poverty with very few prospects of getting out of it. she admitted going to a local community college and getting a job oriented degree would have made her better off financially. the total net cost of higher ed is out of touch with the job market, and the gap has been expanding.

 

[maxxedout]

Smaller colleges are really going to find the going rough. What is it going to be like in thirty years for Shippensburg or Slippery Rock?

Wouldn’t it be good if competition drove down prices?

 

[maxxedout]

The university system as we know it has already been changing due to economics (see Adelphia merging with Jefferson Med School or the sale of Westminster Choir College by Rider). But the better schools will continue to prosper because there will always be a market for learning at the highest level. Not everyone goes to college in order to get a job, although usually that becomes the result. Many value education on non economic terms. Do you want to go through life without knowing anything or do you want to be a scholar? Doctors, lawyers, professors, writers, artists, .... thinkers - value the educational opportunities or in the case of graduate schools, research opportunities that only traditional universities can provide. It’s not all about if I pay this amount of tuition I will earn this salary. For many it’s more like if I go to this university I will live the rest of my life as an enlightened learned individual and my life will be richer as a result of it. Education has a great non economic value that we derive every day. There is a reason that so many of our world leaders, corporate CEOs, and other intellectuals are graduates of the best universities.

Yes, connections to affluence and power (ie alumni networking, “secret societies”, business partnerships and affiliations...) also play a huge part in this.

 

[BobPSU92]

i meet very few students who are seeking knowledge = not saying that is a good idea, but it is what it is.

we have a new class of college educated poverty. just was at a Starbucks not far from South Bend, and the barista was a graduate of Hamilton College in NY with a degree in European art history. she was talking to the person ahead of me who was a family friend and said her school debt was over $160k. she said she was sub teaching and working at SBucks for some benefits. i think she was probably a great person, but living in poverty with very few prospects of getting out of it. she admitted going to a local community college and getting a job oriented degree would have made her better off financially. the total net cost of higher ed is out of touch with the job market, and the gap has been expanding.

Not uncommon, unfortunately. I wonder what she thought she could realistically do with a degree in European Art History. Teach? Be a better-informed (starving) artist? I'm sure she loved the subject, but did she give it any real thought coming out of high school? One also has to wonder if she had a support system that she ignored or was on her own to make the decision.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think she could have readily predicted her situation after graduation had she listened to people, if they were there, or done research on her own.

 

[massimoManca II]

Smaller colleges are really going to find the going rough. What is it going to be like in thirty years for Shippensburg or Slippery Rock?

The smaller publics will survive (at least as I look at the SUNY system, i do not know the PASSHE nearly as well)... the REAL question here in Upstate NY will be the resilience of the denominational smallies (eg: St Bona, Canisius, Siena, Niagara, LeMoyne, Nazareth, Medaille et al.) and how many / how long they can live with the death-rattle... enrollments have been eroding for many years now for all but one that I am familiar with... and they are shakin’ in their boots now that they’re slapped with Cuomo’s Excelsior program

 

[LionJim]

Not uncommon, unfortunately. I wonder what she thought she could realistically do with a degree in European Art History. Teach? Be a better-informed (starving) artist? I'm sure she loved the subject, but did she give it any real thought coming out of high school? One also has to wonder if she had a support system that she ignored or was on her own to make the decision.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think she could have readily predicted her situation after graduation had she listened to people, if they were there, or done research on her own.

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm sure she loved her time being an European Art History major, being able to listen to these learned professors expound on a field they themselves loved. It's a beautiful thing to be able to do. I'm one of the lucky ones. My years as a graduate student were at the same time the hardest and the most enthralling of my life.

 

[Plan Ahaed]

Wouldn’t it be good if competition drove down prices?

As we've seen on the corporate side competition never drives down prices, it inevitably leads to collusion oligopoly and mergers. Heck there's more competition at the higher education level since schools can't merge.

There seems to be a great amount of wishful thinking in this thread hoping for colleges to fail but to coin a term from the last bubble to burst - they're too big to fail. Some may trim programs but those that have been around for decades/100+ years aren't going anywhere. And as long as industry requires bachelor level degrees it cements the need for colleges to exist.

You want colleges to fail - tell corporate america to change their hiring practices.

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm sure she loved her time being an European Art History major, being able to listen to these learned professors expound on a field they themselves loved. It's a beautiful thing to be able to do. I'm one of the lucky ones. My years as a graduate student were at the same time the hardest and the most enthralling of my life.

No doubt she loved it, but at what cost should the theoretical trump pragmatism?

 

[LionJim]

No doubt she loved it, but at what cost should the theoretical trump pragmatism?

It works out for some, not for others. Her field is something she could have mastered on her own, on her own time, I'll admit. But she knew what she was getting into. Did she make a mistake? That's something only she can say.

 

[GOD the almighty Creator]

How do you see the future? I wonder how (and honestly-why) brick and mortar institutions survive long term. With the availability of more and more on-line options, especially for bachelors degrees, will students still be willing (and able) to take on the debt for attending a traditional 4 year college? Would you?

I'm certainly no expert on university administration, but it looks to me like major changes are coming- and sooner than I would have thought just a few years ago. What do you think?

As long as HOT TEENAGE WOMEN are willing to go to college, Universities will survive. You can't get laid online.

 

[LionJim]

It works out for some, not for others. Her field is something she could have mastered on her own, on her own time, I'll admit. But she knew what she was getting into. Did she make a mistake? That's something only she can say.

You may be familiar with the essays of Harry Stein, who used to have a Ethics column for Esquire, thirty or so years ago. A very fine writer. Anyway, in the pre-internet days he needed to check a line from a particular poem, one of Yeats', it turned out, and on a whim he phoned the English Department at the University of Chicago and asked for help. The secretary immediately connected him to a particular faculty member, who gave him the exact quote. "Do you think you need to check it?" "It's correct the way I said it." They got to talking and Stein asked the professor what was it that made poetry important to people? What is it good for? "It gives you the ability to praise." Regardless of the monetary benefit, or lack thereof, this young woman may eventually gain from her degree, I am sure that she greatly benefited from it in a very personal, very special way.

I stole that line for my father's eulogy: "He had a special ability to praise."

 

[Richard the LIONhearted]

So, the world keeps getting more and more complex, and the need for understanding and knowlegde to survive in today’s society has never been greater, but the consensus here is that higher education institutions will soon face a tidal wave of closures? I’ll argue that the need for higher education has never been greater than it is now and the need for higher education will only continue to increase in our information economy. I suspect there will be radical changes to the structure of higher education, I agree that costs are a problem, but to assume that higher ed will be obviated by market forces is risible.

 

[PaFootbalGuy]

Not uncommon, unfortunately. I wonder what she thought she could realistically do with a degree in European Art History. Teach? Be a better-informed (starving) artist? I'm sure she loved the subject, but did she give it any real thought coming out of high school? One also has to wonder if she had a support system that she ignored or was on her own to make the decision.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think she could have readily predicted her situation after graduation had she listened to people, if they were there, or done research on her own.

It is unlikely she expected a career in Art. These liberal arts disciplines, when handled correctly, are simply the vehicle for learning critical thinking,how to absorb and analyze information and to communicate. This is the value of studying these subjects at elite institutions. Yes, they do not master some narrow subject like turf grass management, but rather learn how to learn.. and think and write.

She needs to figure out what she wants to do. Plenty of people with backgrounds just like her become great attorneys or teachers or succeed in many ways in various business disciplines.

Also it is very likely that much more was expected of her to gain her degree, both in quality of work expected and amount, than some generic business management degree at many institutions. I’ve seen curriculum that is embarrassing for college level work. Simplistic research required, and questions asked that require no critical thinking.

 

[Safety Blitz]

I believe more and more students -- and their families who help pay the bills -- are going to seriously look at the cost of obtaining the knowledge when they begin to make decisions on where to go to school.
We told all out children, in no uncertain terms, they needed to select a course of study that would lead to solid employment opportunities. I wanted them to go to school, but was not going to pay the price for them to study, as in the example above, European Art History. In exchange, I allowed them to choose the universities they liked best.
My children have all graduated, thankfully found good employment, and are working to pay down some student debt. My youngest (now a teacher) spent two years at Behrend (for athletics) then transferred to University Park. Loved every second of it and had great life experiences, including Joe's final season and the Sandusky turmoil. But if I had it to do over again, I would have strongly suggested a less expensive state school, such as Slippery Rock, where an Education degree is equal to that of PSU in hiring power. The current student debt situation would have been significantly less.
I tell my friends who have high school students to seriously consider how much bang for the buck their children will receive at the various schools that are of interest. In certain fields of study, attending a large (expensive) school instead of a smaller, less costly, state school can be a waste of serious money.

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

More should attend trade schools as those are jobs as desperately needed, but that wasn't the question asked.

Couldn’t agree more, and I believe one of the reasons many don’t is that our society has devalued this level of education over the years....devalued many of the trades. Not everyone should go to college.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

I think what we're going to see are more hybrid classes in traditional higher ed. The demand for a residential education will always be there, however it's going to drop significantly over time. Schools with large endowments (heh heh) will be fine however small liberal arts colleges are in big trouble. Not to pick on Lebanon Valley College, which I love....but who the hell wants to pay $50k/year to go to school in Annville? It's a beautiful campus, and I know aid packages can be generous, but the well will run dry eventually.

Additionally, I think we're going to see a shift in what traditional online schools offer. It's going to be more than degree programs. The infrastructure Penn State has setup through World Campus can be leveraged in many ways, including offering mini-credentials online. It's up to Penn State to decide how to leverage it, and with its arcane processes that stifle innovation and collaboration, it probably won't happen.

 

[Richard the LIONhearted]

I believe more and more students -- and their families who help pay the bills -- are going to seriously look at the cost of obtaining the knowledge when they begin to make decisions on where to go to school.
We told all out children, in no uncertain terms, they needed to select a course of study that would lead to solid employment opportunities. I wanted them to go to school, but was not going to pay the price for them to study, as in the example above, European Art History. In exchange, I allowed them to choose the universities they liked best.
My children have all graduated, thankfully found good employment, and are working to pay down some student debt. My youngest (now a teacher) spent two years at Behrend (for athletics) then transferred to University Park. Loved every second of it and had great life experiences, including Joe's final season and the Sandusky turmoil. But if I had it to do over again, I would have strongly suggested a less expensive state school, such as Slippery Rock, where an Education degree is equal to that of PSU in hiring power. The current student debt situation would have been significantly less.
I tell my friends who have high school students to seriously consider how much bang for the buck their children will receive at the various schools that are of interest. In certain fields of study, attending a large (expensive) school instead of a smaller, less costly, state school can be a waste of serious money.

Funny thing about those Liberal Arts majors, tho....https://hbr.org/2017/07/liberal-arts-in-the-data-age

 

[Fizz1]

This question makes me think of quality. Those universities that have the courage to channel resources toward strengths, and make tough decisions on other areas, are more likely to maintain excellence in education and research. Others who try to fund everything will probably still be around, but there will be erosion in quality over time. Would be nice to have Harvard's endowment.

 

[joeparules]

If I had sons (instead of two daughters), I would have emphasized trade schools as a viable option. The $100K or so difference between that and College could make a great investment in starting their own business. I realize this sounds a little sexist, but if you saw two plumbers, electricians or contractors and one was male and the other female ... which would you hire? Be honest.

I also made sure they majored in something that could "pay the bills" after graduation. One is out (Enterprise Risk Management) and making a decent salary while the other wanted to study Marine Biology and several talks with various people switched her to Animal Science (pre vet). We are fortunate enough to have paid for their education (2 years to go) so they don't need to worry about debt (except possibly Vet School).

 

[Parkland Fan]

If I had sons (instead of two daughters), I would have emphasized trade schools as a viable option. The $100K or so difference between that and College could make a great investment in starting their own business. I realize this sounds a little sexist, but if you saw two plumbers, electricians or contractors and one was male and the other female ... which would you hire? Be honest.

I also made sure they majored in something that could "pay the bills" after graduation. One is out (Enterprise Risk Management) and making a decent salary while the other wanted to study Marine Biology and several talks with various people switched her to Animal Science (pre vet). We are fortunate enough to have paid for their education (2 years to go) so they don't need to worry about debt (except possibly Vet School).

I spent 19 years at Lehigh University - not as a faculty member. I worked at an incubator for high-tech startups. After retiring I taught Entrepreneurship Classes at DeSales University for a few years. In that class I introduced the concept of creative destruction as coined by an Austrian economist named Joseph Schumpeter. His point was that entrepreneurs find creative ways to destroy business models and/or industries that are becoming obsolete. The cause might be technology, an outrageous profit margin, or whatever. My students were given the example of MOOCs (massive online open classes) and asked to compare that education to in class courses. The students were mostly non-traditional ones - older than 25, working and with families. The reactions were quite interesting. Most agreed that in-class courses were better, but the online/hybrid ones were a much more economical and practical option. In any case, the class knows the concept of creative destruction quite well. The American college industry is the perfect example and we will see some major changes in the next ten years.

 

[massimoManca II]

I believe more and more students -- and their families who help pay the bills -- are going to seriously look at the cost of obtaining the knowledge when they begin to make decisions on where to go to school.
We told all out children, in no uncertain terms, they needed to select a course of study that would lead to solid employment opportunities. I wanted them to go to school, but was not going to pay the price for them to study, as in the example above, European Art History. In exchange, I allowed them to choose the universities they liked best.
My children have all graduated, thankfully found good employment, and are working to pay down some student debt. My youngest (now a teacher) spent two years at Behrend (for athletics) then transferred to University Park. Loved every second of it and had great life experiences, including Joe's final season and the Sandusky turmoil. But if I had it to do over again, I would have strongly suggested a less expensive state school, such as Slippery Rock, where an Education degree is equal to that of PSU in hiring power. The current student debt situation would have been significantly less.
I tell my friends who have high school students to seriously consider how much bang for the buck their children will receive at the various schools that are of interest. In certain fields of study, attending a large (expensive) school instead of a smaller, less costly, state school can be a waste of serious money.

Kids are already doing this...

I’ve shared my story here before - my HS senior grew up aspiring to be a Penn Stater, but i remember the day two years ago when we told him how much tuition would be... he was aghast, remarked that PSU was no value (non-PA resident) and would not consider PSU... furthermore he was not interested in taking on that kind of debt for his education... i was crushed and very proud at the same time

 

[massimoManca II]

If I had sons (instead of two daughters), I would have emphasized trade schools as a viable option. The $100K or so difference between that and College could make a great investment in starting their own business. I realize this sounds a little sexist, but if you saw two plumbers, electricians or contractors and one was male and the other female ... which would you hire? Be honest.

I also made sure they majored in something that could "pay the bills" after graduation. One is out (Enterprise Risk Management) and making a decent salary while the other wanted to study Marine Biology and several talks with various people switched her to Animal Science (pre vet). We are fortunate enough to have paid for their education (2 years to go) so they don't need to worry about debt (except possibly Vet School).

state agencies are being tasked with MWBE guardrails by NYS... i had a meeting with a large university customer here in Upstate NY and this topic came up multiple times... plenty of opportunity for female plumbers, electricians, and contractors

 

[bmusser24]

I know a lot of students who are going to ,say Lock Haven for 3 years or so, and then transferring to P$U for their final year. They save a lot of money that way and still have a P$U degree.

 

[Nitwit]

There is a lot of good discussion in this thread and the economic value vs the intellectual value of education is a topic which people view differently depending upon their own circumstances and experiences.

Joe Paterno was a good example of the benefits of a liberal arts education from a top tier university. He and Sue started the Paterno Fellowship Program in order to encourage and help the top liberal arts majors at PSU earn their way into the Shreyer Honors College because they both understood the value of the liberal arts. A football coach with an English Literature degree who thought he would go to law school or maybe become a judge one day - go figure. He was way beyond the intellect of most career coaches and he somehow transferred his preparation academically into 409 wins!

My own experience as a BA at PSU followed by MBA supports this. When I got my MBA, not at PSU btw, my classmates included a lot of people with technical degrees who were trying to move from their engineering or similar jobs into management positions. But permitting me to generalize, they couldn’t write! They couldn’t communicate effectively outside of technical terminology, and they didn’t seem to know how to analyze and construct arguments or positions in support of their work. The minority of us who were liberal arts bachelors had no difficulty with communicating technical matters effectively and constructing well reasoned and thoughtful business letters (not emails please) of the type which are required in positions of upper management. I later became a CFO.

So learning how to write, speak, communicate, and think at a good university is a very valuable and increasingly rare set of skills, either to prepare you for a professional degree from a graduate program, or even to help you in your career straight away. If you are smart you can usually learn to do the jobs that corporations require, but you can’t learn the other thinking skills required without a strong education, and the best educated come from the best universities.

There is a difference between learning in order to get a job and learning in order to lead people.

 

[Langmuir]

College Tuition has been double the rate of inflation for decades. This cannot continue, the system has to break at some point. The reason is the availability of student loans. Colleges have no pressure to keep costs down because they can just tell the student to borrow more money and they actually help the student do just that.

I really hate the federal subsidized student loan industry. It is the worst mix of government regulations (mostly to protect the lenders) and corporate greed. My goal is to pay for both my kids bachelors degrees without student loans. It is doable but won't be easy. We are doing okay with the first one, the second one is still a few years away from college. Any graduate school is on them.

 

[PSUWeav]

Not uncommon, unfortunately. I wonder what she thought she could realistically do with a degree in European Art History. Teach? Be a better-informed (starving) artist? I'm sure she loved the subject, but did she give it any real thought coming out of high school? One also has to wonder if she had a support system that she ignored or was on her own to make the decision.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think she could have readily predicted her situation after graduation had she listened to people, if they were there, or done research on her own.

I think it is an issue with kids who are told to go after what you love and you will be happy. So they spend $160k of their parents money on a degree that is almost useless in their life and what has that gotten them? Most times the parents are partly to blame as they allow stuff like this to happen. Filling their heads with unrealistic ideas of you can accomplish anything if you just wish hard enough. Instead they should be teaching them common sense and how to work hard. In that girls case she spent 4 years looking at art and no can not a find a job in her field. It might have been cheaper to pay for 4 years in Europe visiting museums. I have a hard time feeling sorry for situations like this.

 

[NICNEM_PSU80]

The days of bricks and mortar have been coming to an end for quite some time though very slowly. Major malls and retail in general have been forecast to die off because of the internet. Has it happened yet? To a small degree it has but the momentum is undeniable. The hot spots are still alive but they are reshaping their delivery methods. Showing up still has its value.

The same thing will happen with Universities. It will be slow. I considered the present value of a degree for my kids. I thought being an electrician would be a better investment yet I sent both kids to Penn State. My daughter initially wanted to study psychology. I pointed out to her that she would need to get a PHD to get a good job and that she would have a difficult time of it financially otherwise. She chose to be a teacher instead and luckily got a job within a few months.

My son (the non-electrician) didn't know what he wanted to do. I suggested finance to him and he received a degree in finance, MS in accounting, got his CPA and CFA at the age of 25. He doesn't like accounting but it has given him the basics of money handling working at a big 4. He is toying with getting a PHD in economics. Every kid is different.

This brings me to the future. I believe that the time to expand Bricks and Mortar is over. Universities will still exist but the need for them will drop. Between going to a county college and learning online University will become two year schools (for years 3 & 4). That counts the need down to roughly 50%. State at least started the process early with its online offerings. Bricks and mortar will survive in some cases because human interaction is important to learning. That said there is allot to be said about online learning. It may have a tremendous benefit in learning especially for some. Course work is unlimited and in the long run you will be able to learn from the best from at home.

Tm line is that the peak of the university system is slightly behind us and all university need to wake up and start adapting.

 

[j.reacher]

Smaller colleges are really going to find the going rough. What is it going to be like in thirty years for Shippensburg or Slippery Rock?

Or Cheyney NOW.

 

[j.reacher]

How do you see the future? I wonder how (and honestly-why) brick and mortar institutions survive long term. With the availability of more and more on-line options, especially for bachelors degrees, will students still be willing (and able) to take on the debt for attending a traditional 4 year college? Would you?

I'm certainly no expert on university administration, but it looks to me like major changes are coming- and sooner than I would have thought just a few years ago. What do you think?

The more conservative schools will survive. Liberals have no clue when it comes time to cut spending or tighten their belt buckles.