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The “non lateral”

BriarwoodBash

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2016
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Was at the game so don’t know explanation that was given on TV of over turning the lateral call. What was said?? Sorry if I missed it in another thread.
BB
Thanks!
 
Was at the game so don’t know explanation that was given on TV of over turning the lateral call. What was said?? Sorry if I missed it in another thread.
BB
Thanks!
Arm moving forward irregardless of direction of ball flight even if ball flight is backwards and not caught is an incompletion. This was the explanation which was an interpretation of rule I was unfamiliar with
 
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Arm moving forward irregardless of direction of ball flight even if ball flight is backwards and not caught is an incompletion. This was the explanation which was an interpretation of rule I was unfamiliar with

Interesting. I was at a party and couldn’t hear the TV commentary at all. I just assumed they overturned he call & said he ball went forward (which blew my mind)
 
Arm moving forward irregardless of direction of ball flight even if ball flight is backwards and not caught is an incompletion. This was the explanation which was an interpretation of rule I was unfamiliar with

If the interpretation of the rule is correct, then the call was correct. The QBs arm was clearly moving forward.
 
Hard to know how that rule is even a rule. So if the QB intentionally passes it backwards it’s a lateral. But...if he intends it to go forward and it doesn’t.....it’s a pass. But, that applies only if he’s hit. Because if he loses the ball all by himself and the ball flies out backwards while he is intending it to go forward then it’s a fumble. Because it’s like a lateral.

Everybody got that??
 
FOX's Pereira backed up the call but I can't figure out why if a pass travels backward from where it was thrown, it's not a lateral. Isn't your arm going forward when you INTEND to throw a backwards pass? Gonna need some deeper explanation for this call.
 
FOX's Pereira backed up the call but I can't figure out why if a pass travels backward from where it was thrown, it's not a lateral. Isn't your arm going forward when you INTEND to throw a backwards pass? Gonna need some deeper explanation for this call.
Yes. CD Lion's question is the same one I have. WTF?
 
FOX's Pereira backed up the call but I can't figure out why if a pass travels backward from where it was thrown, it's not a lateral. Isn't your arm going forward when you INTEND to throw a backwards pass? Gonna need some deeper explanation for this call.

I would assume forward in this case means toward the line of scrimmage and not outward from the QB's body.
 
Based on "b" below found like the ruling was correct...

Forward and Backward Pass ARTICLE 2. a. A pass is forward if the ball first strikes the ground, a player, an official or anything else beyond the spot where the ball is released. All other passes are backward passes. When in question a pass thrown in or behind the neutral zone is forward rather than a backward pass.(Exception: Games using Instant Replay)

b. When a Team A player is holding the ball to pass it forward toward the neutral zone, any intentional forward movement of his hand or arm with the ball firmly in his control starts the forward pass. If a Team B player contacts the passer or ball after forward movement begins and the ball leaves the passer’s hand, a forward pass is ruled regardless of where the ball strikes the ground or a player (A.R. 2-19-2-I).

c. When in question, the ball is passed and not fumbled during an attempted forward pass. (Exception: Games using Instant Replay) d. A snap becomes a backward pass when the snapper releases the ball, other than via a hand-to-hand exchange (A.R. 2-23-1-I).

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIABAB&usg=AOvVaw1HhCJ8I74R3sWnPAPxObq6
 
Based on "b" below found like the ruling was correct...

Forward and Backward Pass ARTICLE 2. a. A pass is forward if the ball first strikes the ground, a player, an official or anything else beyond the spot where the ball is released. All other passes are backward passes. When in question a pass thrown in or behind the neutral zone is forward rather than a backward pass.(Exception: Games using Instant Replay)

b. When a Team A player is holding the ball to pass it forward toward the neutral zone, any intentional forward movement of his hand or arm with the ball firmly in his control starts the forward pass. If a Team B player contacts the passer or ball after forward movement begins and the ball leaves the passer’s hand, a forward pass is ruled regardless of where the ball strikes the ground or a player (A.R. 2-19-2-I).

c. When in question, the ball is passed and not fumbled during an attempted forward pass. (Exception: Games using Instant Replay) d. A snap becomes a backward pass when the snapper releases the ball, other than via a hand-to-hand exchange (A.R. 2-23-1-I).

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIABAB&usg=AOvVaw1HhCJ8I74R3sWnPAPxObq6
Thanks, I just posted the same thing in another thread. I agree, "b" applies. Although, in 40+ years of watching football, I'm not sure I've ever seen a scenario like yesterday's that looked like a lateral. They typically look more like a fumble.
 
why does (b) apply? "b. When a Team A player is holding the ball to pass it forward toward the neutral zone, any intentional forward movement of his hand or arm with the ball firmly in his control starts the forward pass". I think PSU's argument would be he was not holding the ball "to pass it forward". He was holding the ball to pass it backwards, as was evidenced by where the receiver was. IMO if you use this interpretation then you are looking at the QB's intent and I don't see any way an official could know that. Couldn't this logic be applied to virtually every backward pass and rule that it is an incomplete pass and not a fumble because his intent was to make a forward pass?
 
why does (b) apply? "b. When a Team A player is holding the ball to pass it forward toward the neutral zone, any intentional forward movement of his hand or arm with the ball firmly in his control starts the forward pass". I think PSU's argument would be he was not holding the ball "to pass it forward". He was holding the ball to pass it backwards, as was evidenced by where the receiver was. IMO if you use this interpretation then you are looking at the QB's intent and I don't see any way an official could know that. Couldn't this logic be applied to virtually every backward pass and rule that it is an incomplete pass and not a fumble because his intent was to make a forward pass?
I'll have to watch the play again, I don't recall a receiver being there near the sideline. If there was, you're right, it's impossible to determine the QB's intent.
 
I'll have to watch the play again, I don't recall a receiver being there near the sideline. If there was, you're right, it's impossible to determine the QB's intent.

Intent isn't important if the ball doesn't travel past the LoS and the QB is in the tackle box.
 
I'll have to watch the play again, I don't recall a receiver being there near the sideline. If there was, you're right, it's impossible to determine the QB's intent.

There wasn’t a WR anywhere near where the ball landed
 
Was at the game so don’t know explanation that was given on TV of over turning the lateral call. What was said?? Sorry if I missed it in another thread.
BB
Thanks!
If thrown within the tackle box and not to a receiver (no one was in area) and didn't cross the LOS (it didn't) it should have been a penalty..NO?
 
Based on "b" below found like the ruling was correct...

Forward and Backward Pass ARTICLE 2. a. A pass is forward if the ball first strikes the ground, a player, an official or anything else beyond the spot where the ball is released. All other passes are backward passes. When in question a pass thrown in or behind the neutral zone is forward rather than a backward pass.(Exception: Games using Instant Replay)

b. When a Team A player is holding the ball to pass it forward toward the neutral zone, any intentional forward movement of his hand or arm with the ball firmly in his control starts the forward pass. If a Team B player contacts the passer or ball after forward movement begins and the ball leaves the passer’s hand, a forward pass is ruled regardless of where the ball strikes the ground or a player (A.R. 2-19-2-I).

c. When in question, the ball is passed and not fumbled during an attempted forward pass. (Exception: Games using Instant Replay) d. A snap becomes a backward pass when the snapper releases the ball, other than via a hand-to-hand exchange (A.R. 2-23-1-I).

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIABAB&usg=AOvVaw1HhCJ8I74R3sWnPAPxObq6
Well glad to know the call was technically correct. But that's a totally illogical rule. Maybe they can spend less time changing the rules around kickoffs every season and more time addressing stupid rules like this
 
It's an over exaggerated rule. Why wasn't intentional grounding then ruled? Wasn't out of the tackle box nor did it cross the LoS.

Can't have intentional grounding when the QB's arm is hit like it was. If it could, we'd probably see a lot more of those called.

Thanks to the one who posted the rule. They made the correct call.
 
Can't have intentional grounding when the QB's arm is hit like it was. If it could, we'd probably see a lot more of those called.

Thanks to the one who posted the rule. They made the correct call.

They call intentional grounding when QBs are getting sacked and they throw it down. Is the rule really that specific? Arm = ok, throw it wherever, but entire body = IG?
 
Well glad to know the call was technically correct. But that's a totally illogical rule. Maybe they can spend less time changing the rules around kickoffs every season and more time addressing stupid rules like this
Reading the rules certainly was interesting. You think they would try to remove subjectivity rather than introduce it into the guidelines. I also was surprised that some of the rules have exceptions for when instant replay is applicable. So the rules don't apply ALL the time? No wonder so much time is spent pontificating on the rules.
 
Arm moving forward irregardless of direction of ball flight even if ball flight is backwards and not caught is an incompletion. This was the explanation which was an interpretation of rule I was unfamiliar with
I didn’t hear them give that explanation, but they may have said that and I didn’t understand it.
 
Hard to know how that rule is even a rule. So if the QB intentionally passes it backwards it’s a lateral. But...if he intends it to go forward and it doesn’t.....it’s a pass. But, that applies only if he’s hit. Because if he loses the ball all by himself and the ball flies out backwards while he is intending it to go forward then it’s a fumble. Because it’s like a lateral.

Everybody got that??

This is as confusing as the rules to Fizzbin
 
why does (b) apply? "b. When a Team A player is holding the ball to pass it forward toward the neutral zone, any intentional forward movement of his hand or arm with the ball firmly in his control starts the forward pass". I think PSU's argument would be he was not holding the ball "to pass it forward". He was holding the ball to pass it backwards, as was evidenced by where the receiver was. IMO if you use this interpretation then you are looking at the QB's intent and I don't see any way an official could know that. Couldn't this logic be applied to virtually every backward pass and rule that it is an incomplete pass and not a fumble because his intent was to make a forward pass?

What game were you watching? The receiver was 15-20 yards downfield. The QB was obviously throwing the ball forward when it was deflected by a pass rusher. That's what caused the ball to go backward. It was beyond any doubt the correct call.
 
If thrown within the tackle box and not to a receiver (no one was in area) and didn't cross the LOS (it didn't) it should have been a penalty..NO?

He was trying to throw the ball 20 yards downfield when his arm was hit as it moved forward.. That's an incomplete pass at every level of football no matter where the ball lands (other than in someone's arms)..
 
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But if it stays in bounds, isn't it a fumble?

I don’t think, after reading the rule. His intent was to pass the ball forward so it’s just an incompletion. Ridiculous rule.
On the playground that would have been called a lateral. Playground rules are always predicated on commons sense, unlike professional football at both the NFL and NCAA levels.
 
I'll have to watch the play again, I don't recall a receiver being there near the sideline. If there was, you're right, it's impossible to determine the QB's intent.

You don't remember because there wasn't anyone there. The receiver was 20 yards downfield
 
He was trying to throw the ball 20 yards downfield when his arm was hit as it moved forward.. That's an incomplete pass at every level of football no matter where the ball lands (other than in someone's arms)..
I would like to see an example of a similar situation where that was called an incomplete pass. In every single instance I have ever witnessed, that would be called a lateral. Just one instance, and then I will believe it was actually the correct call.
 
What game were you watching? The receiver was 15-20 yards downfield. The QB was obviously throwing the ball forward when it was deflected by a pass rusher. That's what caused the ball to go backward. It was beyond any doubt the correct call.

Here's a screensnap of the play. Receiver is 15 yards downfield.

MSU.jpg
 
What game were you watching? The receiver was 15-20 yards downfield. The QB was obviously throwing the ball forward when it was deflected by a pass rusher. That's what caused the ball to go backward. It was beyond any doubt the correct call.
Well if it was beyond any doubt the right call why did it require a review? The fact the play was initially ruled a backward pass would suggest there was some doubt. Jack Ham, who knows a little about football, said it was a bad call.
 
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