Texas - free markets

rumble_lion

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Aug 7, 2011
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Be careful slamming our state's governance relative to others. Texas state assemblyman is not a full time job. Base salary is only $7,200/year. But they say the retirement benefits are great if you serve eight years or more.:cool:

Some background: Members of the U.S. Congress all have the same base salary, but for state lawmakers, the pay can be wildly different. In Texas, there's a long tradition of the citizen legislature. Basically, lawmaking isn't supposed to be a full-time job.



Be careful slamming our state's governance relative to others. Texas state assemblyman is not a full time job. Base salary is only $7,200/year. But they say the retirement benefits are great if you serve eight years or more.:cool:

I never slammed anything. I simply replying to your comment that there was no hurry for them to do anything right away. They only have a few days left to pass a bill before the next session happens in 2 years.

If they want to meet every 3 years for 5 days to get their work done then good for them.
 

Cosmos

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May 29, 2001
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You think so?

Tesla has already accumulated over 1 million Cybertruck reservations, according to the latest tally.​
The electric pickup truck still has strong momentum.​
When Tesla unveiled the Cybertruck back in November 2019, the automaker started taking reservations with $100 refundable deposits.​
It was the company’s lowest deposit amount, and therefore, it is a smaller commitment than with Tesla’s other vehicles, but it helped achieved more impressive numbers.​
CEO Elon Musk announced that Tesla received over 250,000 reservations for the Cybertruck within a week of unveiling the vehicle.​
Generally, Tesla receives a lot of reservations early after an unveiling, and then it tapers off — but that wasn’t the case with the Cybertruck​
The number was last updated in June 2020, and at that point, the number had risen to over 650,000 Cybertruck reservations.​
Now, a crowdsourced Cybertruck reservation tally put reservations to over 1 million:​

I most definitely do based on the looks of it. I see the market as being large urban areas with wheel spinners on. Not your truck for on-the-job construction sites. Could it be Musk put pickup production at ground zero so he could get a better feel for the market? To me, the biggest attraction of EV is fewer moving parts. The drawback is the lack of fast-charging stations. The infrastructure isn't there yet. Now if Tesla is your 2nd vehicle and used strictly for commuting then no big deal. Anyway, I think your concerns are a bit overblown.
 

Cosmos

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May 29, 2001
25,446
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Be careful slamming our state's governance relative to others. Texas state assemblyman is not a full time job. Base salary is only $7,200/year. But they say the retirement benefits are great if you serve eight years or more.:cool:

I never slammed anything. I simply replying to your comment that there was no hurry for them to do anything right away. They only have a few days left to pass a bill before the next session happens in 2 years.

If they want to meet every 3 years for 5 days to get their work done then good for them.
I'm glad Texas is 100% free market, otherwise things could get weird.

You're sending mixed messages.
 
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rumble_lion

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I most definitely do based on the looks of it. I see the market as being large urban areas with wheel spinners on. Not your truck for on-the-job construction sites. Could it be Musk put pickup production at ground zero so he could get a better feel for the market? To me, the biggest attraction of EV is fewer moving parts. The drawback is the lack of fast-charging stations. The infrastructure isn't there yet. Now if Tesla is your 2nd vehicle and used strictly for commuting then no big deal. Anyway, I think your concerns are a bit overblown.

I most definitely do based on the looks of it. I see the market as being large urban areas with wheel spinners on.

The look is really derived from the design. The body is the frame and it's made from a very tough stainless steel that is folded and welded into place. The metal can't have curves stamped into it so there isn't really any "design" that can be done.

It was designed to be tough/long lasting and easy to manufacture. Since it can't rust there is no need for paint so that entire paint shop is not necessary.

Not your truck for on-the-job construction sites.

The instant torque could be a benefit for truck owners. The ability to power tools from the main battery pack is a benefit. You don't have worry about scratching/damaging the paint as there is no paint. The body/frame can't rust because it's stainless steel. If you do manage scratch it you can just use a grinder to get rid of the scratch. The truck also has air suspension with automatic load levelling.

Someone buying and on-the-job type of truck doesn't really care about how pretty the design is. They care about costs and the cybertruck will be lot cheaper to operate.

Could it be Musk put pickup production at ground zero so he could get a better feel for the market?

I think they needed a site that had access to a lot of labor. But it is an advantage to sell trucks to people in Texas if they are made in Texas, no doubt. Well assuming they get the laws changed to legally sell the trucks in Texas.

To me, the biggest attraction of EV is fewer moving parts.

Yep. Plus you don't have oil and air filter maintenance. You don't have spark plugs, timing belts or exhaust systems. A lot less costly maintenance.

The drawback is the lack of fast-charging stations. The infrastructure isn't there yet.
Now if Tesla is your 2nd vehicle and used strictly for commuting then no big deal.


It is for Tesla. They have their own fast charging network. It's there now and they are constantly expanding it. You can go on long trips just about anywhere in the US with their supercharger network.

A Tesla Supercharger is a 480-volt direct current fast-charging technology built by American vehicle manufacturer Tesla, Inc. for their all-electric cars. The Supercharger network was introduced on September 24, 2012, with six Supercharger stations. As of February 18, 2021, Tesla operates over 23,277 Superchargers in over 2,564 stations worldwide (an average of 9 chargers per station). There are 1,101 stations in North America, 592 in Europe, and 498 in the Asia/Pacific region. Supercharger stalls have a connector to supply electrical power at maximums of 72 kW, 150 kW or 250 kW.​

Screen-Shot-2021-01-05-at-5.48.40-AM.jpg



Plus they also have a much slower "destination" network of chargers.

In addition to the Superchargers, Tesla also has Tesla destination chargers, which are located places that a driver may stop for reasons other than charging, such as hotels, restaurants, and shopping centers. These chargers are slower (typically 22 kW) than Superchargers, and are intended to charge cars over several hours while the driver conducts other business. As of September 2019, Tesla has distributed 23,963 destination chargers worldwide. These chargers are typically free to Tesla drivers who are customers of the business at the location.​
 

NJPSU

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May 29, 2001
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Rumble, your original point was obvious and valid.

Texas advertises itself as this pro business, limited government oasis but it won’t even allow Tesla to sell its cars directly to consumers. That’s hypocritical no matter how these Trumptards try to spin it.
 

rumble_lion

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Aug 7, 2011
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Rumble, your original point was obvious and valid.

Texas advertises itself as this pro business, limited government oasis but it won’t even allow Tesla to sell its cars directly to consumers. That’s hypocritical no matter how these Trumptards try to spin it.

Yeah, they don't believe anyone is buying fully electric cars anyway. It's too difficult to plug them in at night.
 
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m.knox

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Funny thing, it's not illegal for Tesla to sell their vehicles in California. Weird huh?

It's not weird at all. CA could care less how one makes ends meet while TX provides opportunities to Texans of ALL races, religions, sexes......
 

rumble_lion

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It's not weird at all. CA could care less how one makes ends meet while TX provides opportunities to Texans of ALL races, religions, sexes......

CA could care less how one makes ends meet while TX provides opportunities to Texans of ALL races, religions, sexes......

How is preventing Texans ability to buy a Tesla providing them opportunities? It would be appear to be the exact opposite.
 

rumble_lion

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Not illegal for Tesla to sell their cars in Texas either.

They simply need to adhere to the laws that exist about establishing dealerships.

LdN

They simply need to adhere to the laws that exist about establishing dealerships.

Why? They don't have dealerships.
 

m.knox

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Aug 20, 2003
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CA could care less how one makes ends meet while TX provides opportunities to Texans of ALL races, religions, sexes......

How is preventing Texans ability to buy a Tesla providing them opportunities? It would be appear to be the exact opposite.

LOL..

Providing them opportunities for meaningful employment... Not buy an electric car. Duh.
 

Cosmos

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May 29, 2001
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The Supercharger network was introduced on September 24, 2012, with six Supercharger stations. As of February 18, 2021, Tesla operates over 23,277 Superchargers in over 2,564 stations worldwide (an average of 9 chargers per station). There are 1,101 stations in North America,

Contrast to an estimated 111,000 gasoline service stations.

To me, the biggest attraction of EV is fewer moving parts.

Yep. Plus you don't have oil and air filter maintenance. You don't have spark plugs, timing belts or exhaust systems. A lot less costly maintenance.

20 moving parts on an EV motor compared to 2,000 on average for ICE.

It is for Tesla. They have their own fast charging network. It's there now and they are constantly expanding it. You can go on long trips just about anywhere in the US with their supercharger network.

There are problems with compatibility, too. For example, you can't charge your Mustang Mach-E at a Tesla station without an adaptor, and you can forget about using their supercharger.

All these things in addition to your normal range anxiety. I like EV but no thanks, the infrastructure is not there yet.
 

gjbankos

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Jan 16, 2006
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I'm glad Texas is 100% free market, otherwise things could get weird.

Tesla is going to build cars in Austin Texas that they cannot legally sell to someone living in Texas.

Under Texas franchise laws, which are similar to those in most other states, automakers like Toyota and General Motors cannot sell you a car. They must sell their cars to independently owned third-party businesses that in turn sell them to Texans—you know, new-car dealerships.​
As it stands, Tesla’s company-owned outlets cannot legally sell a car in Texas, nor can the company “deliver” a car within the state even if bought by a Texan. Owners had regularly rallied against this soft ban as early as 2013. There are workarounds, some detailed on forums within Tesla’s own website. The company has more than a dozen Texas “galleries,” where cars can be viewed and described—though staffers may not discuss prices.​
Any Texan can go online and order a Tesla through the company’s website. But no orders may be placed or processed within any Texas facility owned by Tesla. One buyer noted his paperwork had been FedExed to and from a Tesla Store in Nevada for completion.​
Once ordered, the vehicle is shipped to one of Tesla’s eight Texas service centers. The buyer must first pay for it online (from outside the facility grounds), and can then drive it away—meaning Tesla has not actually “delivered” the car to a buyer, but simply made it available to be “picked up” by an existing owner.​
Texas is quite happy to register it and collect sales tax on the purchase, of course.​
At last, change was expected by many in 2021 because the backdrop to the state’s legislative session was substantially different than it was in 2019. Following a highly publicized site search for its second U.S. vehicle assembly plant, the company announced in July 2020 it had chosen Austin, Texas. That Austin plant is now well into construction, and production of the Tesla Cybertruck and other EVs is to start within the next 12 months. Tesla has posted hundreds of job openings, and said it hopes to employ 5,000 people.​
Most of the auto industry presumed that in exchange for dropping a billion dollars or so into the Texas economy, Tesla had extracted a promise or a handshake deal that the ban on selling its vehicles would be lifted. Otherwise, it was noted at the time, Tesla would face the peculiar prospect of having to ship all Texas-built vehicles out of the state—even those to be delivered to buyers within five miles of its new plant. No way that would actually happen, right?​
On March 12, State Representative Cody Harris [R-District 8] introduced HB 4379, a bill that would have essentially permitted Tesla to deliver electric cars in the state. The bill crafted a narrow exception to the dealer franchise law that would allow automakers to sell cars directly in Texas if they solely built battery-electric vehicles and never maintained franchised distributors in Texas. Only Tesla and a handful of EV startups fit that description.​
HB 4379 was finally heard by the House Transportation Committee on May 11, two months after it was filed by Rep. Harris. That was a win, of sorts: Earlier versions of the bill in previous sessions hadn’t even gotten that far. Sadly for Tesla, that’s where it ended; the hearing was simply the first of seven steps that must occur within 140 days for a bill to become law in Texas. But the bill was not passed out of committee by the deadline of May 13, meaning it will progress no further. The direct-sale ban will remain in place.​
A different EV bill, HB 2221, filed by Transportation Committee chair Terry Canales [D-District 40] was voted out of committee. The “Electric Transportation Act” has five ambitious goals to spur EV usage in Texas, but it stalled after that step.​
Jeff Carlson, Harris’s chief of staff, was simply pleased HB 4379 got its committee hearing in the first place: “That’s a big deal,” he said. He expressed confidence the testimony would “open some eyes” in the state to the positive attributes of allowing direct EV sales. He suggested such sales would be “the future of the state,” which might well like to attract other EV makers once Tesla has opened its plant. He also pointed out that the outcome reflects the way the Texas Legislature is designed to operate. “It’s a process built to kill bills, not to pass them,” Carlson said.​
So another bill to exempt Tesla (and other direct-sale automakers) will have to be introduced two years hence, and the process will start all over again.​
You bore. There is no market that is 100% free market. You add nothing but vomit to this board.
 

gjbankos

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Jan 16, 2006
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I ended at this statement "I'm glad Texas is 100% free market". Simply isn't true, you know that isn't true and you know nobody has ever made that claim. it is one of the freer markets, certainly freer than peer group states like NY and CA. So like LdN, I have no idea why you posted this.
I did too. Ramble is simply dishonest. He has no honor.
 
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gjbankos

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I never said it was just a Texas issue. I just thought it was particularly galling that vehicles produced in their new Texas plant would have to be shipped out of state before they could be sold to anyone in Texas. Especially since Texas claims to be business friendly vs. a state like California. It just points out how ridiculous these laws are.

gall•ing gô′lĭng
►​

  • adj.
    Causing extreme irritation or chagrin; vexing.

  • Such as to gall, irritate, or distress; extremely annoying; harrowing; provoking.
  • adj.
    Fitted to gall or chafe; vexing; harassing; irritating.

DRAMA!!!!!

Texas didn't force Tesla to build their plants there.

There is nothing galling about it. You are simply an idiot.
 

Cosmos

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May 29, 2001
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Rumble, your original point was obvious and valid.

Texas advertises itself as this pro business, limited government oasis but it won’t even allow Tesla to sell its cars directly to consumers. That’s hypocritical no matter how these Trumptards try to spin it.

Texas doesn't advertise. It doesn't need to. Corporations are relocating here in droves. Actions speak louder than words.

Rumble's point, however nebulous it might be, is Elon Musk must be a dumb @ss for building a plant in a state that's so: 1) unfriendly to EVs and 2) has a power grid problem. o_O Let's give Musk more credit than that. He is a pathfinder. A visionary.

I suspect Musk will use production as leverage to redefine the dealership model. But it remains to be seen if Texans will embrace a pickup truck that looks nothing like one. Tesla's Cybertruck isn't conducive to hanging brush guards or rifle racks on it. Lastly, there's an additional incentive in play. The 25% tariff on foreign pickups is so enticing Musk couldn't resist giving it a try. Toyota builds its pickups here. Why not Tesla.
 
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LafayetteBear

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Dec 1, 2009
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Not without jumping through a bunch of hoops.

Why don't all vehicle sales have to follow same restrictions that Tesla has to follow? That sounds fair to me.
Rumble: What can you reasonably expect? It’s Texass. They make Tesla jump through a bunch of hoops to sell their cars in Texass even though Tesla is doing Texass a big favor by opening a plant there.

Hey, but if you want to concealed carry in Texass without a permit or license, they just made it easier for you. And their electricity network is nonpareil. (Note to Hotshoe: that means nothing can compare to it.)

Oh, to live in Houston ...
 
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Cosmos

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Rumble: What can you reasonably expect? It’s Texass. They make Tesla jump through a bunch of hoops to sell their cars in Texass even though Tesla is doing Texass a big favor by opening a plant there.

Hey, but if you want to concealed carry in Texass without a permit or license, they just made it easier for you. And their electricity network is nonpareil. (Note to Hotshoe: that means nothing can compare to it.)

Oh, to live in Houston ...

People like Elon Musk don't do anything that's not in their best interests. This aint charity. Not that Texas needs it anyway.

Second and concerning the dustup over permit-less CC, if you can buy a gun without a CC permit then what's the big deal over how you use it. The people complaining the most are those who make money giving the class.

Nonpareil is a fair characterization of our power grid, and it's precisely why other nations come to study it. The fact a once-in-a-generation storm temporarily interrupted services doesn't change that. But to the point, tell Texans the price tag of winterizing the grid for something which happens once every twenty years and they'll tell you 'no thanks'. We'll opt for the inconvenience instead.
 

rumble_lion

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Aug 7, 2011
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People like Elon Musk don't do anything that's not in their best interests. This aint charity. Not that Texas needs it anyway.

Second and concerning the dustup over permit-less CC, if you can buy a gun without a CC permit then what's the big deal over how you use it. The people complaining the most are those who make money giving the class.

Nonpareil is a fair characterization of our power grid, and it's precisely why other nations come to study it. The fact a once-in-a-generation storm temporarily interrupted services doesn't change that. But to the point, tell Texans the price tag of winterizing the grid for something which happens once every twenty years and they'll tell you 'no thanks'. We'll opt for the inconvenience instead.

People like Elon Musk don't do anything that's not in their best interests. This aint charity. Not that Texas needs it anyway.

Nonpareil is a fair characterization of our power grid, and it's precisely why other nations come to study it.

The awesome Texas power grid that every nation comes to study gets 20 percent of it's electricity from wind turbines. So I guess renewable do work eh?

And it's going to keep growing.

With 28.1 GW of installed wind capacity in 2019, Texas had more wind capacity than any other U.S. state. If Texas were a country, it would have had the fifth-highest installed wind capacity in the world. EIA expects wind capacity to continue growing in Texas as power producers take advantage of the state’s abundant wind resources, continuing cost declines for wind turbines, and tax incentives. Based on information about planned utility-scale wind capacity additions reported on Form EIA-860M, Preliminary Monthly Electric Generator Inventory, EIA expects 5.0 GW of new wind capacity will come online in Texas in 2020 and 3.6 GW in 2021.​


The fact a once-in-a-generation storm temporarily interrupted services doesn't change that.
But to the point, tell Texans the price tag of winterizing the grid for something which happens once every twenty years and they'll tell you 'no thanks'.


Well is doesn't happen every 20 years, it happened in 2011. The cost of winterizing the grid is small fraction of cost of the grid failures. The "market" for electricity that Texas has created just doesn't just provide any incentive for companies to do it.

We'll opt for the inconvenience instead.

People died. That's a bit more than an inconvenience.
 

bkmtnittany1

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Jan 12, 2014
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gall•ing gô′lĭng​

►​

  • adj.
    Causing extreme irritation or chagrin; vexing.

  • Such as to gall, irritate, or distress; extremely annoying; harrowing; provoking.
  • adj.
    Fitted to gall or chafe; vexing; harassing; irritating.

DRAMA!!!!!

Texas didn't force Tesla to build their plants there.

There is nothing galling about it. You are simply an idiot.
You are a complete ASSHOLE!
 

MtNittany

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
42,607
34,783
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Now if Tesla is your 2nd vehicle and used strictly for commuting then no big deal.

It is for Tesla. They have their own fast charging network. It's there now and they are constantly expanding it. You can go on long trips just about anywhere in the US with their supercharger network.
Who pays? How much taxpayer money was spent to fund the charging of these coal/natural gas fueled cars?

Does the government pay to install Circle K's and Wawas?
 

rumble_lion

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Aug 7, 2011
23,157
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Who pays? How much taxpayer money was spent to fund the charging of these coal/natural gas fueled cars?

Does the government pay to install Circle K's and Wawas?

Who pays?

For level 3 tesla superchargers the owners of the cars that are charging pay for the electricity. Models S cars sold between 2012-2107 came with unlimited free supercharging. Well it was not really free because there was a fixed charge in the price of the car for the supercharging.

The free supercharging for these cars is permanent. If a person wanted to travel around the country then it might not be a bad idea to buy an older Tesla model S that has free super charging. They could travel around country and not pay a dime for "fuel".

For level two destination chargers the electricity is paid for by the owners of the facility that houses the chargers. I believe that Tesla will give the chargers to the business and they pay for the electricity that is consumed.

How much taxpayer money was spent to fund the charging of these coal/natural gas fueled cars?

The governments spends billions subsidizing fossil fuels.

With an electric car you can charge it with electricity from renewables sources. This is not possible with with gas powered car.

Does the government pay to install Circle K's and Wawas?

No.
 

bkmtnittany1

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Jan 12, 2014
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That’s a given. But he’s SO entertaining. His posts are uniformly guffaw inducing:

(“You have no honor.” “You’re here to vomit.” “Try to adult, you Demon!”). Bwahahahaha!!
Absolutely...my golfing buddies, 2 PSU grads love laughing at the moron. Their favorite: "You bring nothing to the board!" That one gets them rolling....
 

SUPERTODD

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Dec 28, 2004
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Most states don't host a billion dollar Tesla manufacturing plant.

Someone can get a job at the Texas Tesla factory building vehicles they cannot even buy in their own state.

Of course you guys don't think it's a big deal.

I think mainly because the Constitution allows States to make their own rules concerning commerce is why we ”don’t think it’s a big deal.”