Teen suicide rates rising; linked to Covid lockdowns.

[LionDeNittany]

Not the only dirty little secret.

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Everyone with a brain knows the lockdown, at the point, is political.

It is about destroying the economy pre election to take credit for the recovery post election.

LdN

 

[Nitt1300]

Everyone with a brain knows the lockdown, at the point, is political.

It is about destroying the economy pre election to take credit for the recovery post election.

LdN

we know that you people probably believe that, yes

 

[MacNit07]

No doubt kids today are much more coddled than previous generations. But we aren't facing a fascist threat now (except I suppose in many cities that have recently burned). And WWII and every war had very deep psychological and social costs. My WWII uncle wouldn't speak of his experience until just before passing and then only talked to me. He hid behind dead bodies at Normandy for significant portions of the invasion. That kind of stuff is going to change some to a point that they really struggle mentally. But they were generally stronger men. And yet, every war carries very high suicide rates during and after. I've personally spent a good bit of time in multiple combat zones and some of those that I served with struggle every day. All of these men and women sacrificed for their country in a time of war. And many still struggle.

So now kids go from the most coddled and privileged generation in our nation's history with the least experience of sacrificing to having their world, their passions, their entire social structure taken away for what most of them would think is nothing (and the statistics back them up for their age group). Soldiers sacrificed for their country. These kids are sacrificing because of irrational fear. Soldiers stood up in the face of danger. These kids are forced to cower and hide. Soldiers leaned on each other and formed life long bonds that those who never served in a combat zone don't fully understand. Our kids are being forced to give up their bonds, give up their entire social network, and lean on maybe just a brother or sister if they have one. And again, it's all for a 99.999% survival rate according to the CDC if they even would get the virus.

We are forcing the softest generation to date to give up their world (even Soldiers in combat zones had sports and games and a social group) for what they have determined correctly is absolutely no good reason. Just because a bunch of adults refuse to consider the CDC data and appropriately analyze risk. Because a bunch of old people are selfish and won't let these kids live because they think it might possibly affect their risk as they still go out to big box stores and groceries. We're forcing young millennials (in competition for softest generation), many with a hundred thousand in college debt, to lose their jobs and delay their opportunities to get some financial foothold since a very disproportionate job impact is to those who were least experienced and established.

Did we not think this selfishness would come at a very steep cost? From coddled to isolation for 99.999% (kids) to 99.995% (young adults) risk if they get the virus going into the 8th month now with no apparent end date after telling them it was 15 days to flatten the curve? It's selfish. I don't know how else to describe what we are forcing on kids, maybe irrational, cruel, sad. I do think these generations could use some toughening up but I don't think go hide at the slightest hint of risk does it. And you want to teach them the lesson of sacrificing but it should be reinforced by those sacrifices earning them something. For our WWII heroes it was a lifetime of our nation's gratitude. For me as a kid running a paper route it was learning work ethic and dependability. But these kids are learning to sacrifice because older people are selfish, won't isolate themselves if they can't tolerate their age category risk, and are projecting irrational fears.

Bravo!

 

[91Joe95]

Everyone with a brain knows the lockdown, at the point, is political.

It is about destroying the economy pre election to take credit for the recovery post election.

LdN

Some people can see Putin from their backyard.

 

[MacNit07]

In many ways, I've lead a charmed life. These last 6 months I've had a lot of time to reflect on the life and time of my parents. Their teen years coincided with the "Great Depression." I recall my Dad talking about how privileged he felt to have a job, any type of income. As a young couple with an infant son. they were separated for almost 3 years as my father was drafted and subsequently experienced combat service in Europe. Who gave my mother and father those 3 years back? Who did they blame? The president? Perhaps the French and British for failing to stand up to Hitler's early aggression? I mean someone should have been blamed, right? I don't recall stories about them taking to the streets to protest their fate.
More to the point, what about the 18-19 year old men who were maimed or lost their lives? They lost more than a prom, some are still socially distanced in military graves in Western Europe.
My uncle, age 19, left his right leg on the Ludendorff Bridge on the Rhine. He returned to America and shined shoes to survive before taking advantage of the GI Bill to obtain a college degree and become a biology teacher.
I've said many times, although unaware at the time, I grew up surrounded by heroes.
My parents and uncle just happened to be 3 of those heroes.
Things are difficult right now for young people. No one should try to sugar coat or deny this. Perhaps if the adults in their life would give them a history lesson, they might better understand that life is a relentless series of challenges. Perhaps teenagers simply need their parents to step up and be the kind of heroes mine were?

Well stated. The lack of knowledge and understanding of history contributes to the lack of perspective. Shamefully, it is not being taught often enough or well enough in our schools. Europe is even worse. Asia? Mostly just fed government propaganda. The lack of appreciation of history then leads to a myopic view of current affairs...with zero ability to understand and appreciate any nuances.

 

[KnightSlayer]

personally, I don't blame the Govs because we just didn't know. But to blame anyone else and to suggest they would have done better is nutso. (not to mention to write a book on how to manage during a crisis).

The orange turd still balks at wearing a mask and all his cultists follow suit. Study after study and virus experts around the world state that if everyone that can wear a mask actually does so, tens of thousands of lives would be saved in just the US alone.

 

[AWS1022]

The orange turd still balks at wearing a mask and all his cultists follow suit. Study after study and virus experts around the world state that if everyone that can wear a mask actually does so, tens of thousands of lives would be saved in just the US alone.

“Orange man bad! Orange man bad! Waaahhhh!!!!”

 

[Obliviax]

The orange turd still balks at wearing a mask and all his cultists follow suit. Study after study and virus experts around the world state that if everyone that can wear a mask actually does so, tens of thousands of lives would be saved in just the US alone.

Not really the same thing. Trump is tested every single day. So wearing a mask is kind of dumb if he knows he isn't infected and threatening anyone else. He has also repeatedly supported wearing masks (but you won't hear this on the news outlets you listen to or read).
President Trump urges Americans to wear masks to contain the coronavirus outbreak

“Whether you like the mask or not, they have an impact, they have an effect, and we need everything we can get,” he said at White House news briefing.​

Finally, a couple of PA democrats were caught on a hot mic referring to wearing masks as "Political Thater". Ouch.

 

[LionDeNittany]

Not really the same thing. Trump is tested every single day. So wearing a mask is kind of dumb if he knows he isn't infected and threatening anyone else. He has also repeatedly supported wearing masks (but you won't hear this on the news outlets you listen to or read).
President Trump urges Americans to wear masks to contain the coronavirus outbreak

“Whether you like the mask or not, they have an impact, they have an effect, and we need everything we can get,” he said at White House news briefing.​

Finally, a couple of PA democrats were caught on a hot mic referring to wearing masks as "Political Thater". Ouch.

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There is some myth that there is some large group of people who support Trump but refuse to wear masks.

It is an odd conclusion. Visit a city and one will see the opposite is true.

LdN

 

[JustinTyme]

There is some myth that there is some large group of people who support Trump but refuse to wear masks.

It is an odd conclusion. Visit a city and one will see the opposite is true.

LdN

The most common violation of social distancing and not wearing masks is the social justice marches which apparently are all Trump supporters?

 

[JustinTyme]

You're getting in the statistical weeds to deflect from my point, an appropriate and accurate illustration of inconsistency (hypocrisy?) of many people.

I'm correcting your point. Your post described COVID deaths as 50 times more probable for kids than suicide. I am correctly pointing out (not deflecting, correcting) that suicide is actually running over 40 times more probable for kids than COVID. If you want to talk inconsistency and accuracy, this means that your math was misrepresenting the truth in risk to kids by cause of death by over 20,000%. Correcting a 20,000% error isn't in the weeds.

 

[Nitt1300]

I'm correcting your point. Your post described COVID deaths as 50 times more probable for kids than suicide. I am correctly pointing out (not deflecting, correcting) that suicide is actually running over 40 times more probable for kids than COVID. If you want to talk inconsistency and accuracy, this means that your math was misrepresenting the truth in risk to kids by cause of death by over 20,000%. Correcting a 20,000% error isn't in the weeds.

Obli

 

[JustinTyme]

Obli

I guess he is the only one who can do math around here?

 

[Nitt1300]

I guess he is the only one who can do math around here?

lol- funny man

 

[interrobang]

 

[SLUPSU]

I'm correcting your point. Your post described COVID deaths as 50 times more probable for kids than suicide. I am correctly pointing out (not deflecting, correcting) that suicide is actually running over 40 times more probable for kids than COVID. If you want to talk inconsistency and accuracy, this means that your math was misrepresenting the truth in risk to kids by cause of death by over 20,000%. Correcting a 20,000% error isn't in the weeds.

No... you're not understanding the point or the math then.

 

[Obliviax]

Obli

❓

 

[Delco Lion]

 

[Art]

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LMFAO.

 

[Jerry]

This country has desperately needed a universal military draft with no exemptions for the last 40 years. Not that I want kids in the military ( I was in the USMC for 4 years and I wouldn’t recommend the experience to anyone ). But do you all realize that if it had existed 90% of all those presently in the House of Representatives and Senate would now be living in Canada. Just imagine how much better our country would be today!!!!!

Totally agree re the draft but it's become a political, cultural, and societal impossibility. Patriotism, like a lot of virtues, comes cheaply these days. Thank a veteran and you're covered.

There was a time when I would have wanted my six kids, well the boys at least, to serve as I did. Not anymore. We've traveled a long way (in the wrong direction) from Omaha Beach.

Now I have 23 grandkids, and I don't want any of them serving as pawns for our corrupt Ruling Class (whose privileged kids don't serve) and its policy of Permanent War.

It hurts to feel that way, but for me it was never about saluting the flag. Rather, it was about what the flag stands for...or once stood for.

 

[JustinTyme]

No... you're not understanding the point or the math then.

99.999% implies 0.001% risk. You made this claim for suicides.
99.95% implies 0.05% risk. You made this claim for COVID.
0.05% is 50 times higher than 0.001% as I stated.

There are 60 COVID deaths in the 5 - 17 age group (95 in 0 - 17) - (20 in under 1) - (15 in the 1 - 4) = 60. Now 5 - 17 is actually larger than all adolescents but the CDC isn't showing age bins to further granulate. https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku

There were 2335 suicides (in 2016) of adolescents. The current 20% increase in suicides observed since COVID shutdowns extrapolates to 2802 suicides projected.

2802 suicides / 60 COVID deaths = 46.7 times higher risk of suicide than COVID death for adolescents (and keep in mind that I am conservatively using a larger denominator here because it is ages 5 - 17 and the number of COVID deaths for adolescents is actually smaller thus the risk of 46.7 is higher). This is the real ratio of risk of suicide to COVID death for adolescents, not your claim that worked out to 50 times higher COVID risk than suicide risk.

So 46.7 times higher real risk for suicide than COVID death times 100 (to put it in terms of percentage) divided by 1 over 50 times (because you show COVID as 50 times greater than suicide which is the inverse of reality) false claim of yours for these risks = over 20,000% error in your original post.

You may not like it but the correct math shows that your original post was off by over 20,000%. So yeah, if you are going to be that much incorrect while using math to try to illustrate a point then no one is going to understand your point. You could show a bunch of math that has Journey Brown going off for 200,000 yards rushing this year and people are just going to look at you funny.

 

[Lion84]

The orange turd still balks at wearing a mask and all his cultists follow suit. Study after study and virus experts around the world state that if everyone that can wear a mask actually does so, tens of thousands of lives would be saved in just the US alone.

What I have seen is mostly younger people gathering and not wearing masks and not really any specific political group as a general rule. I do also see a fair number of older people who are more vulnerable not wearing masks or not wearing them over their noses which I can't understand but I rarely see anyone inside not following the mask rules but go ahead and generalize with no basis in fact which is par for the course with you ANTIFA cultists who are burning down all our cities - see 2 can play at that game.

 

[SLUPSU]

99.999% implies 0.001% risk. You made this claim for suicides.
99.95% implies 0.05% risk. You made this claim for COVID.
0.05% is 50 times higher than 0.001% as I stated.

There are 60 COVID deaths in the 5 - 17 age group (95 in 0 - 17) - (20 in under 1) - (15 in the 1 - 4) = 60. Now 5 - 17 is actually larger than all adolescents but the CDC isn't showing age bins to further granulate. https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku

There were 2335 suicides (in 2016) of adolescents. The current 20% increase in suicides observed since COVID shutdowns extrapolates to 2802 suicides projected.

2802 suicides / 60 COVID deaths = 46.7 times higher risk of suicide than COVID death for adolescents (and keep in mind that I am conservatively using a larger denominator here because it is ages 5 - 17 and the number of COVID deaths for adolescents is actually smaller thus the risk of 46.7 is higher). This is the real ratio of risk of suicide to COVID death for adolescents, not your claim that worked out to 50 times higher COVID risk than suicide risk.

So 46.7 times higher real risk for suicide than COVID death times 100 (to put it in terms of percentage) divided by 1 over 50 times (because you show COVID as 50 times greater than suicide which is the inverse of reality) false claim of yours for these risks = over 20,000% error in your original post.

You may not like it but the correct math shows that your original post was off by over 20,000%. So yeah, if you are going to be that much incorrect while using math to try to illustrate a point then no one is going to understand your point. You could show a bunch of math that has Journey Brown going off for 200,000 yards rushing this year and people are just going to look at you funny.

holy crap..... talk about getting off on a made up tangent, the POINT that seems to escape you in your hyper-literal world was how a CALLUS person would minimize and dismiss the suicide numbers, similar to what many are now doing with the covid numbers. THAT'S IT.

ps.... I assumed a 10% increase in suicides since the number is not even known, so about 500, that equals 99.9987% of 40 mil. that don't commit suicide due to covid. Excuse me for rounding off.

Happy now?

 

[LionDeNittany]

❓

Someone thinks you have two screen names again.

 

[Obliviax]

Someone thinks you have two screen names again.

oh...thanks...I don't.

 

[marshall23]

I think both Justin and you in the above post are making important and valid points, though your perspective on the pandemic is obviously different -- and on that issue I pretty much come down in Justin's corner.

World War II is not called The Good War for nothing. The enemy was evil. The threat was real. And the stakes were existential. Moreover, a spirit of shared service, shared risk, and shared sacrifice animated the nation. That's a unifying and inspiring thing.

Unfortunately, it went out the window a long time ago when the culture became ruled by a mentality that sacrifice, whether with respect to military service or parenthood or citizenship or whatever, is something for other people to do. We see the wreckage all around us.

As for the mindset of soldiers in combat, I can't speak to that from personal experience as my military service occurred in peacetime, if you can call the Cold War period of the late 70's "peaceful."

However, from talking to Marines who fought in Vietnam and reading what combat vets have written, my sense is that at the point of life and death, you're not fighting for high principles or the Star Spangled Banner but rather for your buddies. This is a very powerful bond between and among men. I emphasize: men. I'll stop here lest I venture any further into the thickets of political incorrectness.

I agree with your last paragraph.
I disagree with the "good war"....I'm not sure any war is good.

 

[marshall23]

You are arguing with a teacher who has a pension and no financial fear of the lockdown. Checks are coming in. House is paid for. He hides in his basement and yells buckle up.

He is using the valor of his parents generation and compares that to people under 50 today and trying to make some point.

In the meantime he lived during the period of the greatest growth and prosperity for any people of any country ever in the world and is talking about the sacrifice of raising his kids during that same period.

These are the people MacDaddy was talking about.

LdN

Sorry you aren't a teacher with a pension. Unless you are stupid, which is a distinct possibility, you had the option of pursuing that profession. If you are suffering because you made lousy choices earlier in life or your lack of intellect gave you few options....Tuff shit. By the way, my pension check was deposited in my checking account on 9/30 and there will be another 10/30 etc. My district provides me with 100% free health and dental for life. Let's not forget my Social Security benefit....I'm eligible for the maximum and it will be mine on the 4th Wednesday of every month. I also get paid 2 times per month as a consultant for 17 school districts.
My heart bleeds for you. LOL

 

[JustinTyme]

Sorry you aren't a teacher with a pension. Unless you are stupid, which is a distinct possibility, you had the option of pursuing that profession. If you are suffering because you made lousy choices earlier in life or your lack of intellect gave you few options....Tuff shit. By the way, my pension check was deposited in my checking account on 9/30 and there will be another 10/30 etc. My district provides me with 100% free health and dental for life. Let's not forget my Social Security benefit....I'm eligible for the maximum and it will be mine on the 4th Wednesday of every month. I also get paid 2 times per month as a consultant for 17 school districts.
My heart bleeds for you. LOL

I'm guessing that you are making his point for him. You just explained that you are getting yours so you don't seem to give a crap about anyone else. So screw'em right? That chart posted above showing all of the lower income people suffering from the lock downs. You seem to look down your nose at them. Lock it down, you will be just fine. The fact that unemployment is over 10% in 10 blue states and not a single red state because of the lock downs and restrictions, who cares right? You are getting yours. It's not like millions of Americans aren't hurt by these shut downs and apparently most are the ones who could least afford it. You are getting yours right?

 

[marshall23]

I'm guessing that you are making his point for him. You just explained that you are getting yours so you don't seem to give a crap about anyone else. So screw'em right? That chart posted above showing all of the lower income people suffering from the lock downs. You seem to look down your nose at them. Lock it down, you will be just fine. The fact that unemployment is over 10% in 10 blue states and not a single red state because of the lock downs and restrictions, who cares right? You are getting yours. It's not like millions of Americans aren't hurt by these shut downs and apparently most are the ones who could least afford it. You are getting yours right?

My retirement benefits are the result of nearly 40 years of hard work and dedication. Education has not traditionally been the choice if one intends to become wealthy. I took my first position at $6800 while others with similar degrees made double or triple that sum. My wife stayed home and raised our children. They knew they had loving parents. We did without many things that others who chose a different path enjoyed. My pension was the carrot at the end of the journey. I'm not ashamed of it. I earned it. Everyone has many choices to make in life.....I suggest you proceed carefully.

 

[LionDeNittany]

Sorry you aren't a teacher with a pension. Unless you are stupid, which is a distinct possibility, you had the option of pursuing that profession. If you are suffering because you made lousy choices earlier in life or your lack of intellect gave you few options....Tuff shit. By the way, my pension check was deposited in my checking account on 9/30 and there will be another 10/30 etc. My district provides me with 100% free health and dental for life. Let's not forget my Social Security benefit....I'm eligible for the maximum and it will be mine on the 4th Wednesday of every month. I also get paid 2 times per month as a consultant for 17 school districts.
My heart bleeds for you. LOL

Thank you for making my point for me.

 

[marshall23]

Thank you for making my point for me.

The only point you have is the top of your head. LOL

 

[LionDeNittany]

My retirement benefits are the result of nearly 40 years of hard work and dedication. Education has not traditionally been the choice if one intends to become wealthy. I took my first position at $6800 while others with similar degrees made double or triple that sum. My wife stayed home and raised our children. They knew they had loving parents. We did without many things that others who chose a different path enjoyed. My pension was the carrot at the end of the journey. I'm not ashamed of it. I earned it. Everyone has many choices to make in life.....I suggest you proceed carefully.

I am very happy for you. I have no issue about this or your pension.

LdN

 

[marshall23]

I am very happy for you. I have no issue about this or your pension.

LdN

thank you

 

[JustinTyme]

My retirement benefits are the result of nearly 40 years of hard work and dedication. Education has not traditionally been the choice if one intends to become wealthy. I took my first position at $6800 while others with similar degrees made double or triple that sum. My wife stayed home and raised our children. They knew they had loving parents. We did without many things that others who chose a different path enjoyed. My pension was the carrot at the end of the journey. I'm not ashamed of it. I earned it. Everyone has many choices to make in life.....I suggest you proceed carefully.

I don't besmirch your choices or the results nor do I question if you deserve it. I personally set myself up pretty well with my choices and particularly early life sacrifices. I'm certainly never going to imply that someone who works hard and smart and comes out ahead shouldn't have what they worked for.

What I am saying is that you clearly made the other poster's point for him. You are shielded from the lock down impacts and fortunately I am blessed similarly. But we seem to differ in that I am legitimately concerned that we are doing some horrible things with locking down and restrictions to people who aren't shielded, in particular kids, young and not yet established adults trying to get a foothold, and the lower income folks who have lost a lot of their income and opportunities. Maybe my read on you is wrong and you think along those lines as well. I don't get that sense though. Imagine if schools were shutdown back when you were looking to land that first job? It might be a different perspective than being at the finish line.

 

[PSUHarry33]

The problem stems from the parents who raised these kids. The "everybody gets a trophy" generation never learned how not to deal with adversity which was created by parents.

Thats part of it but being a kid is much different today than previous generations with social media and the increased academic competitive. You can be a good parent raising a very accountable child and suicide still happens. We have friends this has happened too and they did not coddle their kids. It’s way more complicated than that.

 

[bison13]

To give some personal data to this topic, so far this year I have received notifications of three students who are currently seeing therapists for depression and potential suicidal thoughts. Not that this is the first time that I've ever had a student in this situation but obviously it is quite the increase.

 

[RU31trap]

I pray that we do not have another lockdown in NJ or anywhere for that matter. The positives do not outweigh the negatives.