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Team History Question

Ruby Tues

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2018
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I been a long time Joe Pa and State football fan and I've always been a wrestling fan. Wrestled in high school and a little in college (inter-mural). I'm an admitted Penn State wrestling fan since Cael came over from Iowa State. Mainly because I've never had a team to root for, so I decided to start following the PSU wrestling program. Just made sense, definitely wasn't gonna root for the Hawkeyes!
Question I have, when he came over to coach, did we have wrestlers leave the program? I know David Taylor followed Cael to wrestle for him and Bubba Jenkins left, anyone else?

Thanks Ruby
 
I been a long time Joe Pa and State football fan and I've always been a wrestling fan. Wrestled in high school and a little in college (inter-mural). I'm an admitted Penn State wrestling fan since Cael came over from Iowa State. Mainly because I've never had a team to root for, so I decided to start following the PSU wrestling program. Just made sense, definitely wasn't gonna root for the Hawkeyes!
Question I have, when he came over to coach, did we have wrestlers leave the program? I know David Taylor followed Cael to wrestle for him and Bubba Jenkins left, anyone else?

Thanks Ruby

Only Bubba, and he didn't leave he was kicked off the team for various reasons.
 
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Only Bubba, and he didn't leave he was kicked off the team for various reasons.
My recollection is that several others, perhaps more left for various reasons. Tim Darling? One initial recruit left for Arizona State after 1 semester, can't recall the name. Another to Rider? Also, one of the Nevills brothers left for to Fresno State.
 
My recollection is that several others, perhaps more left for various reasons. Tim Darling? One initial recruit left for Arizona State after 1 semester, can't recall the name. Another to Rider? Also, one of the Nevills brothers left for to Fresno State.
As NoVa noted, Jenkins was the only wrestler already on the roster who left (not by his own choice) before graduation.

Darling transferred to Kutztown a year before Cael arrived.

Luke Macchiaroli was the transfer to Arizona State -- he was a Cael recruit to Iowa State, never enrolled there, followed Cael to PSU, but things didn't work out for him here. He was from Phoenix and moved back home. (Things didn't work out for him there either -- he left the program and quit school within 2 years.)

AJ Nevills is irrelevant to the question -- he wasn't yet in Junior High when Cael arrived.
 
As NoVa noted, Jenkins was the only wrestler already on the roster who left (not by his own choice) before graduation.

Darling transferred to Kutztown a year before Cael arrived.

Luke Macchiaroli was the transfer to Arizona State -- he was a Cael recruit to Iowa State, never enrolled there, followed Cael to PSU, but things didn't work out for him here. He was from Phoenix and moved back home. (Things didn't work out for him there either -- he left the program and quit school within 2 years.)

AJ Nevills is irrelevant to the question -- he wasn't yet in Junior High when Cael arrived.
The Fresno State wrestling site states AJ Nevills committed to Penn State and grayshirted there in 2016-17 prior to transferring to Fresno.
 
The Fresno State wrestling site states AJ Nevills committed to Penn State and grayshirted there in 2016-17 prior to transferring to Fresno.
Yes -- and that is irrelevant to the OP's question: "Question I have, when he came over to coach, did we have wrestlers leave the program?"

AJ Nevills did not leave Penn State when Cael came here to coach.
 
By my count, seven underclassmen left the team in Cael's first year (or from 2008-09 to 2009-10). Senior Bubba Jenkins wasn't one of them, as NoVa noted in an above post. He was asked to leave the program mid-season.

Of the seven underclassmen that left, only one (that I could find) continued wrestling, Shane Everett, at Wilkes University (not D1).

On a related note, I count 10 wrestlers that have transferred from the Penn State program during Cael's 10 years, and wrestled elsewhere, mostly D1.
 
What was the story with Bubba? Why was he asked to leave again?
Jenkins was hell bent on taking a redshirt that year, no matter what the coaches thought. (And in fairness, he was limited by a back injury the year before.)

When the coaches didn't go along, he trashed them among his teammates, trying to turn the team against Cael. Reportedly he became difficult in practice.

He deliberately missed weight at a tournament.

He also intentionally tanked classes, in order to become academically ineligible and thus force the shirt. He then bragged about it to the media. Shortly after that became public, is when he got the boot.
 
Jenkins was hell bent on taking a redshirt that year, no matter what the coaches thought. (And in fairness, he was limited by a back injury the year before.)

When the coaches didn't go along, he trashed them among his teammates, trying to turn the team against Cael. Reportedly he became difficult in practice.

He deliberately missed weight at a tournament.

He also intentionally tanked classes, in order to become academically ineligible and thus force the shirt. He then bragged about it to the media. Shortly after that became public, is when he got the boot.
I believe Bubba has since said a few words of regret and admitting a lot of fault was his
 
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I believe Bubba has since said a few words of regret and admitting a lot of fault was his
Some, yes, but not all of his words were conciliatory. He's been all over the place with his comments, from what I've seen.
 
Jenkins was hell bent on taking a redshirt that year, no matter what the coaches thought. (And in fairness, he was limited by a back injury the year before.)

When the coaches didn't go along, he trashed them among his teammates, trying to turn the team against Cael. Reportedly he became difficult in practice.

He deliberately missed weight at a tournament.

He also intentionally tanked classes, in order to become academically ineligible and thus force the shirt. He then bragged about it to the media. Shortly after that became public, is when he got the boot.

Missing weight was the final straw. Coaches wanted him to wrestle 149 that season and he was entered at Mat Town at 157 and he missed weight and went ahead and wrestled at 165 knowing that, per the rules at the time that meant he could not wrestle 149 that season guaranteeing he got his redshirt and getting him kicked off the team.
 
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Based only on this thread, if Bubba v Cael were a movie, it is unclear who would be wrong and who would be right. On the one hand, there is “sacrifice for the team”. On the other hand, there is “I’m a grown assed man, and I know my body” and “team feelings should go both upward and downward”.
 
Here's some history trivia: When Penn State won the 2011 NCAA's it ended a 56 year drought. This is the longest time between titles for any team in any NCAA sport.
 
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Missing weight was the final straw. Coaches wanted him to wrestle 149 that season and he was entered at Mat Town at 157 and he missed weight and went ahead and wrestled at 165 knowing that, per the rules at the time that meant he could not wrestle 149 that season guaranteeing he got his redshirt and getting him kicked off the team.


But didnt he go right to ASU and start, or was that the following year?
 
Based only on this thread, if Bubba v Cael were a movie, it is unclear who would be wrong and who would be right. On the one hand, there is “sacrifice for the team”. On the other hand, there is “I’m a grown assed man, and I know my body” and “team feelings should go both upward and downward”.

Sorry, someone that purposely made himself academically ineligible by failing his classes in the spring semester is not a grown man.
 
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Sorry, someone that purposely made himself academically ineligible by failing his classes in the spring semester is not a grown man.
I disagree. A righteous man can use the tools at his disposal and still be a man. The Minutemen hid behind trees in not-a-grown-man “cowardly” fashion ...

So, the question is whether Bubba should control his career in regard to weight class and redshirt, or whether a brand new stranger of a coach, who was not yet a coaching god, should have control. I know when it comes to athlete vs. NCAA, people by default want athlete power. But when it comes to athlete vs. a not-yet-god Cael, it is less clear what the default bias should be.
 
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I disagree. A righteous man can use the tools at his disposal and still be a man. The Minutemen hid behind trees in not-a-grown-man “cowardly” fashion ...

So, the question is whether Bubba should control his career in regard to weight class and redshirt, or whether a brand new stranger of a coach, who was not yet a coaching god, should have control. I know when it comes to athlete vs. NCAA, people by default want athlete power. But when it comes to athlete vs. a not-yet-god Cael, it is less clear what the default bias should be.

Nothing to do with Cael. Bubba deliberately failed classes while Troy while still the PSU coach so he could get the redshirt he wanted. Nothing righteous about that IMHO. Bubba had other options like transferring and he CHOSE not to do that. Sorry we will have to agree to disagree about the righteousness of Bubba's actions.
 
Nothing to do with Cael. Bubba deliberately failed classes while Troy while still the PSU coach so he could get the redshirt he wanted. Nothing righteous about that IMHO. Bubba had other options like transferring and he CHOSE not to do that. Sorry we will have to agree to disagree about the righteousness of Bubba's actions.
Are you sure Troy was still the coach when Bubba intentionally failed classes?

Edit: Actually, I don’t know the details, and I don’t want to re-litigate old teapot tempests. I was just commenting on what was already in this thread.
 
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Matt Brown and Andrew Long had ISU roots before coming to Penn State. Those plus the already mentioned Cyler Sanderson and David Taylor were the only ones I can think of.
 
As to the bubba story, COACH > athelete. If what is said is true and an athlete misses weight on purpose to defy/disappoint/show up coaches I would want him gone too!
 
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As to the bubba story, COACH > athelete. If what is said is true and an athlete misses weight on purpose to defy/disappoint/show up coaches I would want him gone too!
Or, maybe a guy just wanted to preserve his shirt and decide his weight, and “if the boss doesn’t like it, he can fire me.” The purpose does not always have to be all about the boss’s feelings. Some principles may make the boss’s feelings of secondary importance.

Captain Crozier did what he felt he needed to do probably not for the purpose of hurting his bosses’ feelings.

I am just speaking in principle based on what’s in this thread. But I’m done and will spare the dead horse now. Thank you for the discussion.
 
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Or, maybe a guy just wanted to preserve his shirt and decide his weight, and “if the boss doesn’t like it, he can fire me.” The purpose does not always have to be all about the boss’s feelings. Some principles may make the boss’s feelings of secondary importance.

Captain Crozier did what he felt he needed to do probably not for the purpose of hurting his bosses’ feelings.

I am just speaking in principle based on what’s in this thread. But I’m done and will spare the dead horse now. Thank you for the discussion.
Remember reading Kolat told Fritz he wanted to shirt after soph year. Fritz told him that he(Kolat) didn't run the team. Kolat left. Didn't play the miss weight/skip classes game, but definitely made the boss's feelings secondary to what he wanted to do.
 
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Remember reading Kolat told Fritz he wanted to shirt after soph year. Fritz told him that he(Kolat) didn't run the team. Kolat left. Didn't play the miss weight/skip classes game, but definitely made the boss's feelings secondary to what he wanted to do.

Bingo. Kolat did it the right way to get what he wanted.
 
Bingo. Kolat did it the right way to get what he wanted.
I can’t refrain from continuing the discussion. :)

There is a big difference between Kolat’s and Bubba’s situations.

Bubba did not choose Cael, did not join Cael’s school. Bubba already had his school, which was his home. Cael came to Bubba’s school. Why should Bubba want to change his school and home just because some stranger comes into his life and starts giving him orders. A man of principle can say: “If you want me gone, you have to fire me; I’m not going to do your dirty work for you.” It’s like the stand your ground doctrine. When you are already at your home/castle, the onus is not on you to retreat out of your home!
 
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By participating in this discussion with you guys, I have talked myself into having even more respect for Bubba. He is a worthy adversary for Cael and David. He broke the phenomenon toy. I like him.

He is the kind of adversary that, 20 or thirty years later, can be a great friend of David Taylor’s, like Rocky and Apollo, and Magic and Bird.
 
I disagree. A righteous man can use the tools at his disposal and still be a man. The Minutemen hid behind trees in not-a-grown-man “cowardly” fashion ...

So, the question is whether Bubba should control his career in regard to weight class and redshirt, or whether a brand new stranger of a coach, who was not yet a coaching god, should have control. I know when it comes to athlete vs. NCAA, people by default want athlete power. But when it comes to athlete vs. a not-yet-god Cael, it is less clear what the default bias should be.

Did you seriously just compare combat tactics to a man purposefully screwing around to get a year off of college wrestling?

Anyway, the patriots were not "hiding" behind the trees. They were using them for cover.

The only people who considered it "cowardly" were (supposedly) British officers unused to fighting men with rifles.

Also, the "Minutemen" were specifically the militiamen of Massachusetts. And (mostly) they did not shoot from behind trees at Lexington, Concord, or Bunker Hill. They fought in line of battle with muskets. There was some sharpshooting after the British retreat from Concord, if I recall correctly.

The use of trees for cover happened at battles where some of the Americans had rifles and were used informally as skirmishers and sharpshooters to supplement the main line of battle. E.g. Saratoga, Cowpens, Kings Mountain.

The whole idea that the Brits considered riflemen cowards is a bit of a stereotype and trope anyway, since the British had their own rifle units 2 decades before the Revolution. See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King's_Royal_Rifle_Corps
 
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