Talked to Alabama football player

[ChiTownLion]

Just once I’d love to see a few players speak directly and comprehensively to what they were offered in recruiting. Just lay it all out on the table. Obviously it would be after their eligibility is used up and they are out of NCAA control. It would be interesting to hear school X offered $10,000, a car, etc but schools A, B, and C refused any under the table benefits.

I personally know a player who was recruited by PSU about 20 years ago. Right around New Year's Day, VT came in and offered him an SUV. The way they presented it, they don't make it sound like an NCAA violation... they explained that it was a way to convert "scholarship money." The athlete asked PSU if they would match and that's when PSU stopped recruiting him. Not saying who it was or where he eventually signed, but some schools absolutely bend the rules. Was thrilled to hear an actual, first-hand account where PSU said homie don't play that.

 

[uhlerlion]

I personally know a player who was recruited by PSU about 20 years ago. Right around New Year's Day, VT came in and offered him an SUV. The way they presented it, they don't make it sound like an NCAA violation... they explained that it was a way to convert "scholarship money." The athlete asked PSU if they would match and that's when PSU stopped recruiting him. Not saying who it was or where he eventually signed, but some schools absolutely bend the rules. Was thrilled to hear an actual, first-hand account where PSU said homie don't play that.

Feetsball???!!!!!

 

[Judge Smails]

Feetsball???!!!!!

Kevin Jones announced for VT in 2000. Right around 20 years.

 

[The Song Remains the Same]

Kevin Jones announced for VT in 2000. Right around 20 years.

So JVP/PSU were NOT keeping up with the Joneses...

 

[PSUPride1]

He said Alabama football players get their cars based on some stupid rule that makes them available and legal at 3:00 AM. He also said Mississippi State offered $90,000 to one of his teammates (before Moorhead). He said everyone does this in the SEC. I asked if he had any knowledge of Penn State doing the same and he said lots of kids have been paying attention to PSU but he doesnt know of any cash offers.

We give a gift certificate to the creamery, redeemable at any time. Car at 3am can't touch that.

 

[artsandletters]

I think it is well known this crap goes on every where. I have a work friend who played briefly in NFL...Clemson grad back before Dabo. He talks about the cash handshakes after games and how he had kid in high school and how clemson basically took care of his family.

I personally know a player who was recruited by PSU about 20 years ago. Right around New Year's Day, VT came in and offered him an SUV. The way they presented it, they don't make it sound like an NCAA violation... they explained that it was a way to convert "scholarship money." The athlete asked PSU if they would match and that's when PSU stopped recruiting him. Not saying who it was or where he eventually signed, but some schools absolutely bend the rules. Was thrilled to hear an actual, first-hand account where PSU said homie don't play that.

The summer between transferring from PS tp another college a
QB I knew was driving a new Dodge Charger from Reedman’s in Langhorne. He told us the car was in his brother’s name but he had a big smile on his face that told the story. The dealership should be enough of a clue for the old farts here.

 

[BobPSU92]

So JVP/PSU were NOT keeping up with the Joneses...

I hate us.

 

[WPB_lion]

I'm at the point where I'd rather the players get paid than have the corrupt NCAA get another dime.

I agree. Place a salary cap of say $3 million (in addition to scholarship) that the teams can pay among the players as the teams deem fit (ie. a team could choose to allocate $1 million to the top recruit in the country and zero to the remaining recruits). The amount paid to a player would be set on the day the recruits signs a letter of intent and would be spread out / paid during the 4 years the player is not red shirting. Teams should not have to spend the foregoing amount if they chose not to but they would likely lose recruits. Paying the top players would reduce the under the table money because the amount required to be paid to influence top recruits would increase significantly.

 

[lein]

That car thing has to be bogus. I am sure even Bama athletic compliance tracks vehicles student athletes are driving.

and offers them free oil changes and tire rotations

 

[tboyer]

then the schools can pay off agents to steer the high ranked kids their way- it would just add yet another layer of corruption

I think there's a term for that. NCAA basketball.

 

[Bob78]

The summer between transferring from PS tp another college a
QB I knew was driving a new Dodge Charger from Reedman’s in Langhorne. He told us the car was in his brother’s name but he had a big smile on his face that told the story. The dealership should be enough of a clue for the old farts here.

(Farte D'Olde raising his hand):

Is this is c.1970-71 and the QB's name is Steve Joachim? Joachim was highly recruited and xfered to Temple from PSU around that time. Hufnagle was QB from mid-1970 through 1972.

If not him, not sure who else might fit all the variables.

 

[Big Blue12]

That car thing has to be bogus. I am sure even Bama athletic compliance tracks vehicles student athletes are driving.

I think you forgot to add a or a at the end of your post.

 

[Bob78]

I personally know a player who was recruited by PSU about 20 years ago. Right around New Year's Day, VT came in and offered him an SUV. The way they presented it, they don't make it sound like an NCAA violation... they explained that it was a way to convert "scholarship money." The athlete asked PSU if they would match and that's when PSU stopped recruiting him. Not saying who it was or where he eventually signed, but some schools absolutely bend the rules. Was thrilled to hear an actual, first-hand account where PSU said homie don't play that.

I've told this story on here in the past....
A HS friend of wifey's is a Div 1AA head coach, and was an asst. coach and recruiting coord at a P5 school for a number of years. Life-long college football coach. Very much a straight-arrow, no nonsense guy.

He told me that it was/is so tough for schools who want to play by the rules to make recruiting inroads in the south, because the play there is to do an early verbal and then wait for the cash handshakes to come calling, and especially if the verbal is to a northern school. This practice started not too long after the public verbals began commonplace. Kids figured it out quickly, and there was no shortage of boosters to make their cash wishes come true. The kid already had some cash handed to him before the verbal, but then afterwards, the 'change-yer-mind' cash had to come his way. The coach told me they would get excited over a highly-recruited kid giving a verbal, only to have the rug pulled out at some point in the next few months. So in turn, they soon stopped getting excited over verbals from southern kids.

Respect the decision, y'all.

The fact that PSU got some players from SEC/ACC country in the past and are getting more and more now is an indication, imo, of just how good our staff must be at recruiting. No cheating to overcome cash handshakes can't be easy. Recruiting for character is a real thing.

 

[artsandletters]

(Farte D'Olde raising his hand):

Is this is c.1970-71 and the QB's name is Steve Joachim? Joachim was highly recruited and xfered to Temple from PSU around that time. Hufnagle was QB from mid-1970 through 1972.

If not him, not sure who else might fit all the variables.

Steve’s a great guy (haven’t seen him in decades). Same frat as Hufnagel, Ganter, Skopupan, Koegel and others. Phi Delta Theta, iirc.

 

[Pinkhippo PeanutButter]

If all this were true (have no doubt it sometimes happens) boosters would frequently get screwed by being outbid. (What are they gonna do, call the police or report to NCAA?)

The transfer portal might exacerbate this. Maybe good. If boosters payoff a freshman who then performs well, they might take the money & run somewhere else.

Not to mention, with money to burn, boosters might well pay off opposing players or the refs to secure wins. Cleaning up recruiting is at best a partial solution.

 

[Ranger Dan]

Kevin Jones announced for VT in 2000. Right around 20 years.

VT didn’t have to give Jones an SUV, they hired his dad as strength coach.... also, Penn State kept recruiting Jones as far as I can recall

 

[MICH.Nit Fan]

The answer is to recruit on character.

Quit spewing such nonsense. You have a cultural problem.

 

[psu_1989]

Just once I’d love to see a few players speak directly and comprehensively to what they were offered in recruiting. Just lay it all out on the table. Obviously it would be after their eligibility is used up and they are out of NCAA control. It would be interesting to hear school X offered $10,000, a car, etc but schools A, B, and C refused any under the table benefits.

Listen to MRob's eulogy at Joe's service. He did lay it out.

 

[demlion]

Getting sued for what?

Oh, defamation perhaps.

 

[step.eng69]

I’ve always wondered why players don’t spill it. On the rare occasion they discuss it it’s always vague. I think there’s a component of not wanting to be seen as a snitch. IIRC Paul Posluszny (?) made a comment years ago about being offered money while being recruited by other schools but wouldn’t be specific or name names.

Yep, l remember

 

[psu00]

Listen to MRob's eulogy at Joe's service. He did lay it out.

Thanks- I’ll have to try and find that.

It would be great if 1 or more recruits just put it all on the table- school X offered $45,000, school Y offered $25,000 and a car, school Z offered my parent money and a job, etc. It would show how incompetent the NCAA leadership and enforcement people are.

 

[ChiTownLion]

Listen to MRob's eulogy at Joe's service. He did lay it out.

 

[PSU87]

Oh, defamation perhaps.

Is it defamation if it's true? Would the burden of proof be on the University to prove it wasn't true?
Not being snarky.....honest questions.

 

[Pinkhippo PeanutButter]

Oh, defamation perhaps.

Not a lawyer, but you might be...

It seems it would be an incredibly high bar to prove defamation against an athlete recruited "outside the rules"

The truth is always a defense against defamation, right?

And in most cases, the defamed is a public figure, if not a coach, at least a vocally public & known booster? So the bar is further raised?

Seems more likely that the graft & boost is covered by an NDA and/or similar shenanigans.

 

[BobPSU92]

Quit spewing such nonsense. You have a cultural problem.

I know. I hate me.

 

[demlion]

Not a lawyer, but you might be...

It seems it would be an incredibly high bar to prove defamation against an athlete recruited "outside the rules"

The truth is always a defense against defamation, right?

And in most cases, the defamed is a public figure, if not a coach, at least a vocally public & known booster? So the bar is further raised?

Seems more likely that the graft & boost is covered by an NDA and/or similar shenanigans.

The question is what could he be sued for, not "would he win?"

Suppose a player said, "Booster X and Coach Z gave me 50k on Jan 1, 2019 to play FB for Yinzer State University."

If PROVABLY UNTRUE, such a claim could be found to be defamatory, if it was out of line with their prov-able character, but I did not say it was defamation, just that they could claim it.

The perfect guy to do it would be a guy who will never have a pro career with nothing to lose. An injured player, say. My guess is, such people have come forward to the coaches in past situations and been paid hush money.

Let's hope Stormy has showed them the way to have their cake and eat it, too.

 

[demlion]

Is it defamation if it's true? Would the burden of proof be on the University to prove it wasn't true?
Not being snarky.....honest questions.

No. Yes.

 

[Art]

VT didn’t have to give Jones an SUV, they hired his dad as strength coach.... also, Penn State kept recruiting Jones as far as I can recall

Didn't happen. VT got ratted out. Feetsie was too high profile for his own good.

 

[AWS1022]

Just once I’d love to see a few players speak directly and comprehensively to what they were offered in recruiting. Just lay it all out on the table. Obviously it would be after their eligibility is used up and they are out of NCAA control. It would be interesting to hear school X offered $10,000, a car, etc but schools A, B, and C refused any under the table benefits.

Players have done this and the general reaction is people don’t believe it, don’t want to believe it, think it’s sour grapes on the part of the player, or think it happens everywhere so it’s no big deal. Brian Bosworth discussed it in great detail in his book (for one example).

 

[NittPicker]

The summer between transferring from PS tp another college a
QB I knew was driving a new Dodge Charger from Reedman’s in Langhorne. He told us the car was in his brother’s name but he had a big smile on his face that told the story. The dealership should be enough of a clue for the old farts here.

When I was an undergrad in the mid 80s, I was walking along one of the alleys in downtown State College when I saw a car coming in the opposite direction. While said car wasn't a rust bucket ready for the junkyard, it was certainly an older model which had been around awhile. I moved to the side as the car went by. Who was driving? Shane Conlan. So if it's true that "everyone does it", Penn State didn't do it very well. What did D.J. Dozier drive? A Yugo?

 

[PS4814]

Players have done this and the general reaction is people don’t believe it, don’t want to believe it, think it’s sour grapes on the part of the player, or think it happens everywhere so it’s no big deal. Brian Bosworth discussed it in great detail in his book (for one example).

That's what frustrates me with this discussion whenever it comes up on this board. In the past posters have shared multiple examples of illegal 'crootin from twitter / articles / books / interviews etc., but there still seems to be a certain segment of folks who behave as you describe. They ignore all this evidence, put their heads in the sand, and use the excuses you shared to "defend" their beliefs.

It almost reminds me of the flat earth folks.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

That's what frustrates me with this discussion whenever it comes up on this board. In the past posters have shared multiple examples of illegal 'crootin from twitter / articles / books / interviews etc., but there still seems to be a certain segment of folks who behave as you describe. They ignore all this evidence, put their heads in the sand, and use the excuses you shared to "defend" their beliefs.

It almost reminds me of the flat earth folks.

The power that controls the sports media, ESPN, protects the SEC and the ACC because they have a huge financial interest to do so.

If a school like Auburn was in the Big Ten, they would have received the Death Penalty years ago. ESPN would have destroyed them. If Ohio State was in the SEC, you would have never heard of something as harmless and laughable, at least in SEC terms, as "Tat Gate". It would have just been kids being kids.

Heck, Terry Bowden still probably has the actual ledger in his desk at home of each player he paid, and how much he paid them while at Auburn. He freely admits that. Separately, in 2011, some Auburn players went public about how their money deals went down, and how much they themselves got paid. Then there's always the "National Championship" they bought with Cam Newton.

What do you get from ESPN???? Crickets. They couldn't put out the Cam Newton fire quick enough after that broke. The Auburn players that exposed how the cash transactions went down when they played in the mid-2000s were ostracized and labeled as nothing more than disgruntled cry babies. Terry Bowden? Just a nice "Feel Good Story" of a guy that wanted to clean things up.

There will always be a double standard as long as ESPN owns the SEC Network, and most of their rights except for the CBS weekly game, and ALL the 1st and 2nd tier rights to the ACC.

Since Delany told ESPN to get fu(ked in 2004, and launched BTN, their relationship with the Big Ten has been strained, at best.

 

[BOSCO2]

Is it defamation if it's true? Would the burden of proof be on the University to prove it wasn't true?
Not being snarky.....honest questions.

Well, there is the problem of having to pay a lawyer to defend you if you're sued. Really, there's nothing to be gained, even if you win.

 

[RU31trap]

The power that controls the sports media, ESPN, protects the SEC and the ACC because they have a huge financial interest to do so.

If a school like Auburn was in the Big Ten, they would have received the Death Penalty years ago. ESPN would have destroyed them. If Ohio State was in the SEC, you would have never heard of something as harmless and laughable, at least in SEC terms, as "Tat Gate". It would have just been kids being kids.

Heck, Terry Bowden still probably has the actual ledger in his desk at home of each player he paid, and how much he paid them while at Auburn. He freely admits that. Separately, in 2011, some Auburn players went public about how their money deals went down, and how much they themselves got paid. Then there's always the "National Championship" they bought with Cam Newton.

What do you get from ESPN???? Crickets. They couldn't put out the Cam Newton fire quick enough after that broke. The Auburn players that exposed how the cash transactions went down when they played in the mid-2000s were ostracized and labeled as nothing more than disgruntled cry babies. Terry Bowden? Just a nice "Feel Good Story" of a guy that wanted to clean things up.

There will always be a double standard as long as ESPN owns the SEC Network, and most of their rights except for the CBS weekly game, and ALL the 1st and 2nd tier rights to the ACC.

Since Delany told ESPN to get fu(ked in 2004, and launched BTN, their relationship with the Big Ten has been strained, at best.

Here's my take on this issue. I believe there are profoundly less checks and balances in southern states as compared to the northeast. I don't believe a news agency would run on a story of corruption in college football in fear of some sort of retaliation. The NCAA clearly does not have the juice to investigate an Athletic Department for illegal recruiting activity and their relationships with boosters. The entity that can do the most damage is the Government. They can run a sting operation to expose and arrest those involved in corrupt activities. In the end it will be spun by the media (ESPN) as a racial and economic issue. JMHO

 

[step.eng69]

(Farte D'Olde raising his hand):

Is this is c.1970-71 and the QB's name is Steve Joachim? Joachim was highly recruited and xfered to Temple from PSU around that time. Hufnagle was QB from mid-1970 through 1972.

If not him, not sure who else might fit all the variables.

My first thought was Hillary Clinton's brother, but he did graduate from PSU
winner, winner...you won a set of tongs
Steve Joachim:
1971 Penn State Ind QB 11 16 41 39.0 399 9.7 9.9 7 3 162.5
1973 Temple Ind QB 10 80 159 50.3 1312 8.3 6.8 11 10 129.9
1974 Temple Ind QB 10 128 221 57.9 1950 8.8 8.0 20 13 150.1

 

[Bob78]

Here's my take on this issue. I believe there are profoundly less checks and balances in southern states as compared to the northeast. I don't believe a news agency would run on a story of corruption in college football in fear of some sort of retaliation. The NCAA clearly does not have the juice to investigate an Athletic Department for illegal recruiting activity and their relationships with boosters. The entity that can do the most damage is the Government. They can run a sting operation to expose and arrest those involved in corrupt activities. In the end it will be spun by the media (ESPN) as a racial and economic issue. JMHO

This is apparent, I think, in the lack of action taken over this very thing. And this 'weakness' was the point that Freeh exploited using the PSU report to audition his services to the NCAA as their investigative partner, if I recall . That is why it became even more important for Freeh to find some fault with JVP - to show the NCAA his fearlessness in going after the violators. In this case, even if they could find nothing to report, they needed to say they did, based on opinion and 'reasonable conclusions'. Well, that, plus the Task Farce had paid them to find fault....

Joe had been saying for years that he had long since given up reporting the violations he heard about from players and coaches, because the NCAA just didn't do anything about it anyway. Players I knew used to just laugh about the stuff other schools would promise them. And even if they were pissed at Joe about his demands, they consistently said that at least Joe told them the truth about how he would challenge them on and off the field.

 

[Zenophile]

This is apparent, I think, in the lack of action taken over this very thing. And this 'weakness' was the point that Freeh exploited using the PSU report to audition his services to the NCAA as their investigative partner, if I recall . That is why it became even more important for Freeh to find some fault with JVP - to show the NCAA his fearlessness in going after the violators. In this case, even if they could find nothing to report, they needed to say they did, based on opinion and 'reasonable conclusions'. Well, that, plus the Task Farce had paid them to find fault....

Joe had been saying for years that he had long since given up reporting the violations he heard about from players and coaches, because the NCAA just didn't do anything about it anyway. Players I knew used to just laugh about the stuff other schools would promise them. And even if they were pissed at Joe about his demands, they consistently said that at least Joe told them the truth about how he would challenge them on and off the field.

I'd be inclined to agree with you -- and it may be what ultimately made him come around -- but the idea of burning Joe wasn't Freeh's initially.