Stop the stupid cr*p about Prosecuting Putin as War Criminal. Goal should be to end war on fair terms to Ukraine --This empty threat just prolongs war

dailybuck777

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Jan 2, 2018
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These stupid threats just encourage Putin to dig in. Why would he want to end up like Saddam Hussein. (and what good did his trial do) Good arguments can be made that Bush jr., Obama and Biden are all war criminals. (Biden in particular for drone killing roughly 12 innocent people just to show how tough he was after the disastrous Afghanistan exit.) The Ukrainians have proved they are good fighters. Best outcome is for Ukraine and Russia to have a mutual face saving solution that stops the fighting.

The US has even refused to become a member of the International Criminal Court. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_the_International_Criminal_Court. Biden administration has explicitly stated that it doesn't support the International Criminal Court to try war crimes allegations. "Secretary of State Antony Blinken issued a statement maintaining the country's "longstanding objection to the Court’s efforts to assert jurisdiction over personnel of non-States Parties such as the United States and Israel"; [See wiki]

Preventing WWIII is a much more important goal than mostly virtue signalling that it is a policy goal of the US to try Putin, who is in possession of a very potent nuclear arsenal. Why paint him into a corner, with the nuclear weapons at his disposal. Also, why not go after Xi or any number of other brutal leaders.
 
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Jerry

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These stupid threats just encourage Putin to dig in. Why would he want to end up like Saddam Hussein. (and what good did his trial do) Good arguments can be made that Bush jr., Obama and Biden are all war criminals. (Biden in particular for drone killing roughly 12 innocent people just to show how tough he was after the disastrous Afghanistan exit.) The Ukrainians have proved they are good fighters. Best outcome is for Ukraine and Russia to have a mutual face saving solution that stops the fighting.

The US has even refused to become a member of the International Criminal Court. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_the_International_Criminal_Court. Biden administration has explicitly stated that it doesn't support the International Criminal Court to try war crimes allegations. "Secretary of State Antony Blinken issued a statement maintaining the country's "longstanding objection to the Court’s efforts to assert jurisdiction over personnel of non-States Parties such as the United States and Israel"; [See wiki]

Preventing WWIII is a much more important goal than mostly virtue signalling that it is a policy goal of the US to try Putin, who is in possession of a very potent nuclear arsenal. Why paint him into a corner, with the nuclear weapons at his disposal. Also, why not go after Xi or any number of other brutal leaders.

Uh-oh, another Putin-lover. The mob of shrieking baboons will be over shortly.

No seriously, Buck, this came up in the Bucha thread as well, and I agree with you about the accusations of war crimes. Even if accurate, they're reckless and counterproductive.

But it's worse than that. The policy now seems clearly to be regime change. Ukraine is expendable. In fact, in many ways Ukraine has already been expended.

Our fearless leaders have visions of Gaddhafi and Saddam being chased into the desert, flushed from their holes, and lynched. (Never mind what happened to Iraq and Libya after that. Minor details.)

Problem is, unlike the criminals Gaddhafi and Saddam, the criminal Putin happens to have his finger on the button of a large nuclear arsenal. And he ain't coming out of the hole before pressing it. But again: minor detail.

I feel like the doc in the last scene of Bridge on the River Kwai:

 

Aardvark86

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Jan 23, 2018
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War crimes, you bet. Will anything be done of it? Nope, and that just further undercuts the idea that international justice in war time is worth a damn.

Sadly, we have come to a very depressing state in the affair. No more chuckling at tractor memes. Now we will view images of the real effects of cruelty ... and of artillery. And we’ll be doing it for a while.

Make no mistake - there’s no doubt who the bad guy is here, or who will prevail. But militarily, can anyone right now honestly even speculate what the end looks like? And diplomatically, this is a tragic failure. While we were a day late and a dollar short at the beginning, it was consistent with a strategy that was reasonable but (it turned out) wrong, and I actually think we’ve played those cards very well since then. And yet, they have deterred nothing - not at the beginning, not at the middle, and I'm not sure what's left for the end - which is very sad. Worst yet, I’m personally of the view that Putin isn’t going anywhere, whether because of simple force or the nature of the Russian people. So now we’re going to spend a lot of time and treasure watching a festering sore.

this is not an expression of dissatisfaction against the administration or the west more broadly. It’s just a tragedy that we’re going to have to deal with for a long time.

jerry, you are spot on with the Kwai clip.
 
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dailybuck777

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I actually think we’ve played those cards very well since then. And yet, they have deterred nothing - not at the beginning, not at the middle, and I'm not sure what's left for the end - which is very sad.
I think Biden has been a disaster on this for the whole ride. 1. Encouraging Ukraine to join Nato when not possible. 2. Backing Putin into a corner and calling him a war criminal -- bad, bad mistake. 3. Now imposing sanctions on Russian citizens like the Russian tennis player and Putin's daughters and anyone else they can identify just to be petty and vindictive. Some of these people could be quiet allies of the US and the Ukrainians but this assures that they will be strong adversaries of the US.
 
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dailybuck777

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Expected all sorts of emotional and vituperative posts by Lefties to this post, but have received none. Guess it is a minor victory that even Lefties are embarrassed by US position that Putin should be tried as war criminal when US exempts itself from war criminal trials.
 

LafayetteBear

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Expected all sorts of emotional and vituperative posts by Lefties to this post, but have received none.
Buck: That's not because you didn't deserve any such posts. You richly deserve them with your ridiculous gaslighting for Vladimir Putin. It's because liberals are not as easily triggered as RWNJ's (and particularly the RWNJ's who post here).

Folks here should consider what you just did:

1. Started a thread in which you advocate for cancelling sanctions against Putin's daughters, even though Putin has put significant assets in their names in an effort to evade sanctions.

2. Started a second thread in which you urge people to stop calling your buddy Vladimir a "war criminal." This, notwithstanding the relentless Russian bombing of civilian targets in Ukraine. (Forget Bucha; there is ample evidence of Russian war crimes in a variety of other Ukrainian cities.)

3. Asserted, in that second thread, that George W. Bush, Obama, and Biden are "war criminals." Here is your exact statement:

Good arguments can be made that Bush jr., Obama and Biden are all war criminals.

Many would call you a traitor. I am not one of them. Why? I think you have an excuse. You are crazy.
 
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dailybuck777

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Buck: That's not because you didn't deserve any such posts. You richly deserve them with your ridiculous gaslighting for Vladimir Putin. It's because liberals are not as easily triggered as RWNJ's (and particularly the RWNJ's who poster here).

Folks here should consider what you just did:

1. Started a thread in which you advocate for cancelling sanctions against Putin's daughters, even though Putin has put significant assets in their names in an effort to evade sanctions.

2. Started a second thread in which you urge people to stop calling your buddy Vladimir a "war criminal." This, notwithstanding the relentless Russian bombing of civilian targets in Ukraine. (Forget Bucha; there is ample evidence of Russian war crimes in a variety of other Ukrainian cities.)

3. Asserted, in that second thread, that George W. Bush, Obama, and Biden are "war criminals." Here is your exact statement:



Many would call you a traitor. I am not one of them. Why? I think you have an excuse. You are crazy.
You are so uninformed that it apparently never crossed your mind that Bush lied about weapons of mass destruction to start a war in Iraq. Also, you have forgotten the waterboarding that Bush authorized. Here is your friend Nadler talking about waterboarding and George Bush who admits he authorized it:
"T]he United States has always considered waterboarding torture except during the Bush administration. We prosecuted Japanese generals for waterboarding people. We prosecuted American soldiers for waterboarding people and pressed that cage. The current attorney general Mr. Holder has said that waterboarding is torture." https://www.huffpost.com/entry/calls-for-criminal-invest_n_782354

Here is Harvard political review calling Obama a war criminal. https://harvardpolitics.com "During his presidency, Obama approved the use of 563 drone strikes that killed approximately 3,797 people. In fact, Obama authorized 54 drone strikes alone in Pakistan during his first year in office. One of the first CIA drone strikes under President Obama was at a funeral, murdering as many as 41 Pakistani civilians./obama-war-criminal/

Your other points are equally simplistic and uninformed and are easily rebutted by simply reading my posts. I guess you have been asleep the last 20 years while the US has been killing innocent citizens and lying about facts to start a war that probably killed over a million people. Unfortunately most Dems and the Lefty press are just as uninformed as you and can only resort to childish and simplistic name calling to prosecute a war in a very complicated situation that requires sophistication and clear, hard-headed thinking.
 
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