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Stevens

I know it's harsh and some people won't agree but, Trace's time at PSU should be over. He had a great run but, we are out of playoff and BIG Champ contention. Those were the goals for his final year. Time to look to the future. If Stevens is to be the QB to lead the team in 2019, we would dramatically increase his chances of success by letting him play the final 6 games of this season.
And they would be correct to disagree. Benching McSorley now would be absolutely ridiculous. The season is not over just because a conference title and playoff berth are now out of reach.
 
Personally I think if Tommy doesn’t get time this year and starts next year at QB that it will set the program back a couple years. I am not a fan of 1 and done QBs unless he leads you to the promise land and that doesn’t happen often. I hate thinking about breaking in a QB 2 years in a row. I like the thought of a 3 year starter. Our schedule in 2020 is rough with the second game at VT, tough place to play.

However I was on this same war path in 2004. I wanted a 3 year starter (Moreli) over a 5th year senior who I thought was just getting the job because he was a good sport playing all the positions to help the team out until his true shot at QB came in 2005. I might have eaten some crow back then.
 
No- he has 1 year left after this one and he should have taken his talents elsewhere. Don't know what the staff told him to keep him at PSU but he's certainly being unrewarded from my perspective.
it really was a problem that he opened the season injured and was not healthy till tOSU game. when these guys use red shirt seasons for anything but injuries it becomes a risk.

if the team starts to go south, my guess is that Tommy will start to get QB time in place of Trace. unless the team gets so bad that we need Trace to save games to insure bowl eligible, we would see Tommy.
 
Personally I think if Tommy doesn’t get time this year and starts next year at QB that it will set the program back a couple years. I am not a fan of 1 and done QBs unless he leads you to the promise land and that doesn’t happen often. I hate thinking about breaking in a QB 2 years in a row. I like the thought of a 3 year starter. Our schedule in 2020 is rough with the second game at VT, tough place to play.

However I was on this same war path in 2004. I wanted a 3 year starter (Moreli) over a 5th year senior who I thought was just getting the job because he was a good sport playing all the positions to help the team out until his true shot at QB came in 2005. I might have eaten some crow back then.
Normally agree but there was never a greener QB starting for PSU than McSorley when he was a soph. (but he did have Barkley) . Stevens is far more experienced that Trace was. He'll bring a different skill set but will have a senior laden OL and experienced receivers around him.
 
Normally agree but there was never a greener QB starting for PSU than McSorley when he was a soph. (but he did have Barkley) . Stevens is far more experienced that Trace was. He'll bring a different skill set but will have a senior laden OL and experienced receivers around him.
I don't know. It may have all been in one game, but I bet Trace had more snaps at QB his RS FR year than Stevens has so far in 3 years as a back up.
I expect Clifford to win job anyway.
 
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3 weeks ago we didn't have back to back division losses. Stevens was the ultimate team player after losing the job to Trace. Trace is gone after this season. Winning a couple extra games with Trace as the starter does nothing for the team. Getting players, who are coming back next year, much needed experience is good for the team. It wouldn't just be Trace. Any player in their last year would be getting less playing time the rest of the year. They had their shot. Time to give the next in line their shot.
Winning always helps the team. More ways than one.
 
And they would be correct to disagree. Benching McSorley now would be absolutely ridiculous. The season is not over just because a conference title and playoff berth are now out of reach.

I shouldn't have said his time should be over. That would be a bad coaching move. I do still believe Stevens should get a number of series throughout the game both in the 1st and 2nd half.
 
Crazy talk.

Your best players play every game. You play to win every game, and go with the guys who give you the best chance to win on a given Saturday. Guys rotate in when they’ve earned playing time or to keep starters fresh. True 2nd teamers play when the game is out of reach.You don’t bench starters who’ve earned the eight to play because they won’t be here next year.
 
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Crazy talk.

Your best players play every game. You play to win every game, and go with the guys who give you the best chance to win on a given Saturday. Guys rotate in when they’ve earned playing time or to keep starters fresh. True 2nd teamers play when the game is out of reach.You don’t bench starters who’ve earned the eight to play because they won’t be here next year.
Rotating a green safety or receiver can lose you a game just as easily as a QB. Considering risk of injury, having an experienced QB outweighs the risks (imho).
 
Holy Buckets.
Maybe I am completely out of the loop on PSU quarterbacks.
However, for 2 1/2 years this board and 99% of the Penn State football fans of all backgrounds and general football knowledge have had a full crush on Trace McSorley. Can't remember a time before this week (and this thread) when anyone has trashed Trace McSorley. And, for what? His worst game in what - 33 starts? From team hero behind Saquon to he needs to be giving up playing time to Tommy Stevens? Now I read that Tommy Stevens will be a first round draft pick after starting one year for Penn State!
How many games did Saquon have that were subpar because of the OL? Why not ask for another RB who might be able to make a difference? Because Saquon was the best you had back there. Trace is the best you have back there. HE HAD A BAD GAME, PEOPLE!
Let me ask a simple question....this is your son who just had his worst game in 33 starts and the football gods are calling for him to be replaced from being the full time Q. You'd be okay with that?

Sorry, I'm usually upbeat with most of the boards' posts, or at least I keep quiet. But, some of you, yes, IMO, are completely out of line and coming unglued.

OL
 
Holy Buckets.
Maybe I am completely out of the loop on PSU quarterbacks.
However, for 2 1/2 years this board and 99% of the Penn State football fans of all backgrounds and general football knowledge have had a full crush on Trace McSorley. Can't remember a time before this week (and this thread) when anyone has trashed Trace McSorley. And, for what? His worst game in what - 33 starts? From team hero behind Saquon to he needs to be giving up playing time to Tommy Stevens? Now I read that Tommy Stevens will be a first round draft pick after starting one year for Penn State!
How many games did Saquon have that were subpar because of the OL? Why not ask for another RB who might be able to make a difference? Because Saquon was the best you had back there. Trace is the best you have back there. HE HAD A BAD GAME, PEOPLE!
Let me ask a simple question....this is your son who just had his worst game in 33 starts and the football gods are calling for him to be replaced from being the full time Q. You'd be okay with that?

Sorry, I'm usually upbeat with most of the boards' posts, or at least I keep quiet. But, some of you, yes, IMO, are completely out of line and coming unglued.

OL

People aren't saying bench Trace for Tommy, they're saying whoever is going to start next year should get a few more snaps than they maybe would have had the team been undefeated and in contention for a playoff spot. What exactly is wrong with trying to get next years starter some experience?
 
People aren't saying bench Trace for Tommy, they're saying whoever is going to start next year should get a few more snaps than they maybe would have had the team been undefeated and in contention for a playoff spot. What exactly is wrong with trying to get next years starter some experience?
Knightslayer said "Trace's time at PSU should be over." That sounds like a poster calling for Trace to be benched to me. And that is ludicrous.
 
Knightslayer said "Trace's time at PSU should be over." That sounds like a poster calling for Trace to be benched to me. And that is ludicrous.

I also posted that I shouldn't have said it like that. My original post was over the top but, I do think Stevens should get more playing time now that we are out of contention for the playoffs and BIG title game. I don't see why that is such a controversial opinion.
 
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I also posted that I shouldn't have said it like that. My original post was over the top but, I do think Stevens should get more playing time now that we are out of contention for the playoffs and BIG title game. I don't see why that is such a controversial opinion.

Any opinion that isn’t “aw shucks we’ll get’em next time” is controversial.
 
Rotating a green safety or receiver can lose you a game just as easily as a QB. Considering risk of injury, having an experienced QB outweighs the risks (imho).

I said people that earn playing time. You sometimes have to play players that aren’t quite where you like then to be, but you put your best guys on the field at all times relative to the situation. A QB or any other player doesn’t play just to gain experience unless it’s garbsge time after the outcome has been decided.
 
This "best ever" stuff is wild. He is not the best QB in PSU history. That was very obviously Kerry Collins and Trace, while good, is not really that close. There were others, like Michael Robinson, who were more "clutch" than Trace and would have won the Rose Bowl, OSU in 2017 and 2018 and MSU in 2017 and 2018.
Yup. Wild. So what if the kid's practically re-written the PSU QB record book? BENCH HIM.

TIC
 
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If Steven's was healthy this summer then he would've transferred. It was pointless to transfer knowing that he wouldn't be able to practice and therefore not be able to win a starting position.
 
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I know its not. Just showing that the idea of no coach in america benching a qb with trace's accomplishments is demonstrably false.
Whoa. You might not be joking...

IF there comes a point in a game where Trace is the problem, CJF might bench him for the sake of winning the game. If the backup comes in and is the cure-all for the offense's problems, then the backup has earned the opportunity.

Saban's move was gutsy and regarded as "something very few would try or get away with" and the like. Hurts was the problem. Trace doesn't seem to be.

EDIT: and this is pointless.
 
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Imagine being Stevens and then hearing that your head coach has a "man crush" on McSorley. Franklin should not have said that. Whether true or not, I would read that as an unfair bias if I'm Stevens, and I'd be wondering how deep and how long it's been there.

The message to the other good quarterbacks on the roster is pretty simple. If you're not the starter after two years, get out when there is still time.

Franklin could have worked this better last year and early this year in quite a number of games. He waited way too long to put in the backup after games were in hand. He has to show the other quarterbacks something different going forward. I think he runs an offense that demands it, so it's more than just about keeping backups happy and on the roster.
 
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I am willing to bet we see a ton of #2 this weekend at Indiana. He said he's got something like 60 people coming to the game.
 
Imagine being Stevens and then hearing that your head coach has a "man crush" on McSorley. Franklin should not have said that. Whether true or not, I would read that as an unfair bias if I'm Stevens, and I'd be wondering how deep and how long it's been there.

The message to the other good quarterbacks on the roster is pretty simple. If you're not the starter after two years, get out when there is still time.

Franklin could have worked this better last year and early this year in quite a number of games. He waited way too long to put in the backup after games were in hand. He has to show the other quarterbacks something different going forward. I think he runs an offense that demands it, so it's more than just about keeping backups happy and on the roster.
I think most coaches would be fond of the best quarterback on the team who is rewriting the school record book. I’m not sure how that could be considered at all to be handled poorly.

I don’t really see what the message could be other than “you’re good, but the guy ahead of you is better.” If that makes someone want to look for other opportunities, so be it.
 
I think most coaches would be fond of the best quarterback on the team who is rewriting the school record book. I’m not sure how that could be considered at all to be handled poorly.

I don’t really see what the message could be other than “you’re good, but the guy ahead of you is better.” If that makes someone want to look for other opportunities, so be it.

Can't disagree with being "fond" of someone rewriting records, but "man crush?" Sorry, that connotes over-the-top bias. I think Franklin needs to be more careful in his choice of words at times. He called JVP "great." In some areas Franklin would be well-served to take a page.
 
I think most coaches would be fond of the best quarterback on the team who is rewriting the school record book. I’m not sure how that could be considered at all to be handled poorly.

I don’t really see what the message could be other than “you’re good, but the guy ahead of you is better.” If that makes someone want to look for other opportunities, so be it.

Can we pump the brakes just a bit on this rewriting the record books? First, offenses are much different now. Trace had over 800 pass attempts between 2016 and 2017. In 1994, Collins had just 264 passes. Trace is also a 3 year starter. How often is that the case in college football? His biggests assets to me are his relentless competitiveness, and never say die attitude. He almost never loses the confidence that he can lead the team to victory no matter the situation.
 
Whoa. You might not be joking...

IF there comes a point in a game where Trace is the problem, CJF might bench him for the sake of winning the game. If the backup comes in and is the cure-all for the offense's problems, then the backup has earned the opportunity.

Saban's move was gutsy and regarded as "something very few would try or get away with" and the like. Hurts was the problem. Trace doesn't seem to be.

EDIT: and this is pointless.

Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit. Someone said no coach would bench a qb with traces accomplishments. It’s happened twice this season and I provided examples.

I don’t think trace is the problem. This thread isn’t about trace being a problem. It’s about how to put next years starters in positions to succeed. Given our penchant for losing late leads I don’t think tommy will play much if at all until the Rutgers game. I’d hope he sees a fair amount of time in that one since it should be over by halftime?
 
Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit. Someone said no coach would bench a qb with traces accomplishments. It’s happened twice this season and I provided examples.

I don’t think trace is the problem. This thread isn’t about trace being a problem. It’s about how to put next years starters in positions to succeed. Given our penchant for losing late leads I don’t think tommy will play much if at all until the Rutgers game. I’d hope he sees a fair amount of time in that one since it should be over by halftime?
Conversely, you don’t bench a player who’s earned the job just to give reps for next year. The best players play every game. Every week you put your best 11 on the field based on the situation. Every start and game is precious to a player. Even the best players get roughly 36 games, and many start for two or even one year. They earned the spot, and spots aren’t taken away just to give the guy who will be playing next year some time.
 
Conversely, you don’t bench a player who’s earned the job just to give reps for next year. The best players play every game. Every week you put your best 11 on the field based on the situation. Every start and game is precious to a player. Even the best players get roughly 36 games, and many start for two or even one year. They earned the spot, and spots aren’t taken away just to give the guy who will be playing next year some time.

I didn’t say to bench trace or start tommy, giving him an extra series or two in games where the outcome is decided would be good for the program. looking forward to the first loss next season and half the board being pissed and half saying it’s no biggie and was expected with a new starting qb that threw around 40 passes the previous 3 seasons.

If Penn state is winning by 28 going into the 4th against Rutgers what problem do you see with Stevens or Clifford finishing the game?
 
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I didn’t say to bench trace or start tommy, giving him an extra series or two in games where the outcome is decided would be good for the program. looking forward to the first loss next season and half the board being pissed and half saying it’s no biggie and was expected with a new starting qb that threw around 40 passes the previous 3 seasons.

If Penn state is winning by 28 going into the 4th against Rutgers what problem do you see with Stevens or Clifford finishing the game?
Yes, agree he should and will play when the outcome is decided as that is perfectly appropriate.
 
Conversely, you don’t bench a player who’s earned the job just to give reps for next year. The best players play every game. Every week you put your best 11 on the field based on the situation. Every start and game is precious to a player. Even the best players get roughly 36 games, and many start for two or even one year. They earned the spot, and spots aren’t taken away just to give the guy who will be playing next year some time.

Says who? The college roster is in a constant state of flux. Every year ~20% of your team runs out of eligibility and you get an entirely new class of recruits. Roster management is not nearly as simplistic as you make it to be. The strategy would also change as the season develops. If we were still in contention for some of our preseason goals, then most here would not suggest getting younger players development time. The fact is, we are out of contention for our two main goals that we have at the start of every season. Playoffs and BIG title game. Not getting younger players experience this year hurts our chances of achieving our goals for next year. Are we trying to be elite or a team that is happy with just getting to a New Year's day scrimmage?
 
Says who? The college roster is in a constant state of flux. Every year ~20% of your team runs out of eligibility and you get an entirely new class of recruits. Roster management is not nearly as simplistic as you make it to be. The strategy would also change as the season develops. If we were still in contention for some of our preseason goals, then most here would not suggest getting younger players development time. The fact is, we are out of contention for our two main goals that we have at the start of every season. Playoffs and BIG title game. Not getting younger players experience this year hurts our chances of achieving our goals for next year. Are we trying to be elite or a team that is happy with just getting to a New Year's day scrimmage?
Does it? Our last three conference championship teams were quarterbacked by first year starters. Three of the four teams on pace to make the playoff this year have first year starting quarterbacks. I don’t think the number of backup snaps the year before are as big of an indicator of future success as a starter as many here are making it seem.
 
Does it? Our last three conference championship teams were quarterbacked by first year starters. Three of the four teams on pace to make the playoff this year have first year starting quarterbacks. I don’t think the number of backup snaps the year before are as big of an indicator of future success as a starter as many here are making it seem.

We play by different rules, and yes I’m aware one of those 3 is trace. OSU also made the playoffs a year after losing 12 starters to the nfl draft but still made the playoff in 2016 but our "youth" made winning this season totally unreasonable.
 
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I didn’t say to bench trace or start tommy, giving him an extra series or two in games where the outcome is decided would be good for the program. looking forward to the first loss next season and half the board being pissed and half saying it’s no biggie and was expected with a new starting qb that threw around 40 passes the previous 3 seasons.

If Penn state is winning by 28 going into the 4th against Rutgers what problem do you see with Stevens or Clifford finishing the game?
If Penn State is winning by 28 going into the 4th, Stevens or Clifford would finish the game. That's not a point anyone needed to advocate.
 
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Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit. Someone said no coach would bench a qb with traces accomplishments. It’s happened twice this season and I provided examples.

I don’t think trace is the problem. This thread isn’t about trace being a problem. It’s about how to put next years starters in positions to succeed. Given our penchant for losing late leads I don’t think tommy will play much if at all until the Rutgers game. I’d hope he sees a fair amount of time in that one since it should be over by halftime?
Relieving a starter with a backup after the starter's job (winning the game) is essentially done, isn't benching him.
 
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