Spanier has a book coming out in 09/22

WHCANole

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I think the administrators did an unacceptably poor job documenting MM's report and the rational for their response.
Criminally so.
That said I disagree that they knew that JS committed sexual assault in 98 or 01.
Not according to Joe's testimony.
Complaints were dropped against JS in 98
No, Gricar just didn't have a strong enough case to prosecute a pillar of the community. However, PSU had a report from a licensed Psychologist that said Jerry was a likely pedophile.
and NONE of the 5 people MM talked to said that he mentioned sexual assault.
Joe did as did Schultz at the GJ
Also, ZERO players or coaches said that they saw JS involved in such activity.
Not according to MM
 

bdgan

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May 29, 2008
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Criminally so.

Not according to Joe's testimony.

No, Gricar just didn't have a strong enough case to prosecute a pillar of the community. However, PSU had a report from a licensed Psychologist that said Jerry was a likely pedophile.

Joe did as did Schultz at the GJ

Not according to MM
Those are not facts
 

WHCANole

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Agree that standard procedure is to clearly document whistleblower complaints and they failed miserably.
Criminally so
I don't agree that MM told them about sexual assault. It makes ZERO sense that Dad, Dranov, Joe, Curley, and Shultz would all say that MM didn't say that.
They didn't all say that. Joe said he did as did Schultz at the GJ.
Also, if they really thought JS committed sexual assault they would have immediately eliminated all access to PSU facilities and they would have instructed people to keep quiet. Reasonable people wouldn't risk it happening again.
I agree but this is what happens with institutional coverups. Plus Sandusky was very popular locally. Telling him he couldn't come on campus would have forced out the "why" which would have brought up 1998. They just sat on it.
My guess is that they were reluctant to ruin JS's life with a false accusation.
Instead, they allowed JS to ruin several other lives. They paid for that and I'm glad they did.
 

WHCANole

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Why would he lie? You’re not talking about dickpics college football betting MM are you? Nothing to see here……
Oh, the Ziegler nonsense, for your information sending pics to another consenting adult is not illegal and there is no definitive proof he bet on games either.

Even if true, do you really believe that would be enough to have him make up our of whole cloth what he saw in the shower in 2001 and ruin the lives of four people, one of whom he adored? Really? LOL
 
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Cletus11

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the fact that Mike McQueary, McQueary's dad and Dr. Dranov all did nothing about it tells me that what Mike McQueary said at the time was not in any detail or of a real sexual nature. Mike heard JS and the kid showering in the PSU locker room, saw a brief glance of them showering through a mirror, not long enough to see what was actually going on. JS and the kid come out of the shower and the kid does not seem distraught. That is what MM saw and told everybody that night and the next day. Only a decade later when the police put the pressure on him and guilted and bullied MM into 'seeing' more did he say that he told more to those people.
 
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marshall23

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I am not his dad. Why would he lie? It would have been much better for him if he had kept his mouth shut like the other assistants before him.
They had him in the crosshairs.....if you don't know why he went along, you don't belong in the conversation. Do some research....before you punch in.
 
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marshall23

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the fact that Mike McQueary, McQueary's dad and Dr. Dranov all did nothing about it tells me that what Mike McQueary said at the time was not in any detail or of a real sexual nature. Mike heard JS and the kid showering in the PSU locker room, saw a brief glance of them showering through a mirror, not long enough to see what was actually going on. JS and the kid come out of the shower and the kid does not seem distraught. That is what MM saw and told everybody that night and the next day. Only a decade later when the police put the pressure on him and guiled MM into 'seeing' more did he say that he told more to those people.
Mike was an "ear" witness. He saw nothing. Anyone who is familiar with the locker room would know that he had no view of the shower area...not from his locker, nor from the mirror above the sink.
He never reported a sexual assault to anyone.....he even had to be told not to dispute the GJP ....by Jonelle Esbach.....LOL
 
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WHCANole

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the fact that Mike McQueary, McQueary's dad and Dr. Dranov all did nothing about it tells me that what Mike McQueary said at the time was not in any detail or of a real sexual nature.
Here is what Dranov said at trial:
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. ROMINGER

Q: But, doctor, you asked him three times if he saw a sexual act?

MR: McGETTIGAN: Objection. That's just a leading question and improper redirect.

THE COURT: Overruled

Q: Right?

A: In the conversation, yes. I didn't use the term did you see a sexual act. I kept saying what did you see and each time he would come back to the sounds. I kept saying what did you see. And it just seemed to make him more upset. So I backed off that.

That's a lot different than the "Q: Did you see a sexual act? A: No." that everyone likes to falsely tell.
Mike heard JS and the kid showering in the PSU locker room, saw a brief glance of them showering through a mirror, not long enough to see what was actually going on.
That's not what Joe said MM told him
JS and the kid come out of the shower and the kid does not seem distraught. That is what MM saw and told everybody that night and the next day.
Not what he told Joe
Only a decade later when the police put the pressure on him and guilted and bullied MM into 'seeing' more did he say that he told more to those people.
Do you have any proof that the police pressured MM to say anything? MM has posted on here and said they did not.
 

WHCANole

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They had him in the crosshairs.....if you don't know why he went along, you don't belong in the conversation. Do some research....before you punch in.
No they did not. I know the imagined reason posited by Ziegler but it has not a shred of proof. The idea that the police "blackmailed" MM for sending dicpics to another consenting adult or that he ALLEGEDLY bet on games 15 years prior into making up a complete lie about what he told Joe, who he adored, is laughable and is a conspiracy theory. Show proof the police pressured him to lie. You can't.
 

WHCANole

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Mike was an "ear" witness. He saw nothing. Anyone who is familiar with the locker room would know that he had no view of the shower area...not from his locker, nor from the mirror above the sink.
He never reported a sexual assault to anyone.....he even had to be told not to dispute the GJP ....by Jonelle Esbach.....LOL
That's not what he told Joe.
 

mhentz

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That's a very self serving guess for those fellows. Saying Mike was upset is not the same as saying he didn't mention sexual assault. Mike did not clarify it wasn't sexual assault but some other thing. He didn't specifically say it was sexual to them. That's different.
Joe mentioned of a sexual nature and the other two are liars. What they did is the basic cover up in these cases. It's how it always happens. Either way, it's done now. Spanier says he has a book coming out. My friend talks about writing one.
But the narrative is set, certain PSU fans will believe what they believe and others will think the opposite. The grand jury information is sealed and the reports various people had have been destroyed or were supposed to be destroyed. So if you want clarification or exoneration neither will ever come enough to satisfy anyone.

If your buddy writes a book about the Sandusky investigation I'll definitely buy a copy. That'll be a must-read.
 

roswelllion

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es those who made false accusations, either for political or financial gain, including the former Director of the FBI whose investigation was widely condemned; the governor of Pennsylvania who was voted out of office because of his central role; the grandstanding NCAA president who imposed penalties that would ultimately be reversed; an attorney general elected on a promise to investigate the injustice who would be sent to prison for her crimes emanating from the debacle; the grand jury judge who would be accused of wrongdoing by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court; the lead prosecutor whose law license would be suspended by the supreme court for his malpractice; and the university’s general counsel who would be censured by the supreme court for her malfeasance in representing Penn State officials. The book also touches on the notorious Pennsylvania “Porngate” scandal that revealed a pornography ring operated out of the Office of Attorney General involving many of the same prosecutors, investigators, judges, and the state police commissioner who relentlessly pursued me. This book is for anyone interested in the real story of one of the biggest scandals in collegiate history, a factual historical account of the last ten years.

So the above is from Spanier's intro. My point more to bourbon the wackatroll is if you read the intro it explains why many folks still think either this case was full of lot's of bad or stuff OR all criminal justice system is full of lot's of bad stuff and we just know about this one.
To me this is like the election fraud talk of the 2020 Pres race. Was the legal yes it appears that way but if you look at many many different coincidences hat occurred [Biden getting more black votes than Obama, polls mysteriously shutting down for 2-3 hours in the middle of the night, Biden getting much larger % of total vote and black vote after the polls re opened than before they closed, 19-20 voting precincts that have a near 100% record of voting for POTUS correctly picking DT etc. etc. Any of these can be explained away. but the likelihood they all occurred becomes statistically almost impossible. Can anything be proven It appears not so on we go but there will always be a group that feels like something was wrong. Back to PSU. It isn't odd for any one thing to occur, for all of them to occur sets off lot's of red flags for many folks. [me included]
 

marshall23

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No they did not. I know the imagined reason posited by Ziegler but it has not a shred of proof. The idea that the police "blackmailed" MM for sending dicpics to another consenting adult or that he ALLEGEDLY bet on games 15 years prior into making up a complete lie about what he told Joe, who he adored, is laughable and is a conspiracy theory. Show proof the police pressured him to lie. You can't.
Prove they didn't.
 

marshall23

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No they did not. I know the imagined reason posited by Ziegler but it has not a shred of proof. The idea that the police "blackmailed" MM for sending dicpics to another consenting adult or that he ALLEGEDLY bet on games 15 years prior into making up a complete lie about what he told Joe, who he adored, is laughable and is a conspiracy theory. Show proof the police pressured him to lie. You can't.
They also had the ace of charging Dad.....who thought that what Mike saw was so terrible, that he instructed junior to tell a football coach about it......LOL...
"Dad, I saw Jerry raping a little boy"......Dad...."that's serious business son....you had better tell Joe Paterno!"
Whatahole!
 
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marshall23

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CSS and Joe knew about 1998.
So what? It was investigated by the proper authorities and the DA declined to press charges. Nothing happened then and nothing happened the night McQueary heard slapping sounds. Allan Myers stated such.
MM didn't even talk to Joe about it for 6 weeks.
It's a good thing Dr.Dranov reported to the authorities.....opps.....I guess Mike didn't tell him anything, he felt needed a report to law enforcement or CYS?
 
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roswelllion

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They also had the ace of charging Dad.....who thought that what Mike saw was so terrible, that he instructed junior to tell a football coach about it......LOL...
"Dad, I saw Jerry raping a little boy"......Dad...."that's serious business son....you had better tell Joe Paterno!"
Whatahole!
Oh and while your telling the football coach show him some dickpics and tell him no problem it is between consenting adults. When he gets off the floor tell him if you hear about me betting on games it is ONLY an allegation. Okay…,
 

marshall23

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Here is what Dranov said at trial:
REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. ROMINGER

Q: But, doctor, you asked him three times if he saw a sexual act?

MR: McGETTIGAN: Objection. That's just a leading question and improper redirect.

THE COURT: Overruled

Q: Right?

A: In the conversation, yes. I didn't use the term did you see a sexual act. I kept saying what did you see and each time he would come back to the sounds. I kept saying what did you see. And it just seemed to make him more upset. So I backed off that.

That's a lot different than the "Q: Did you see a sexual act? A: No." that everyone likes to falsely tell.

That's not what Joe said MM told him

Not what he told Joe

Do you have any proof that the police pressured MM to say anything? MM has posted on here and said they did not.
We have proof that he disputed The Grand Jury Presentment....and was told to say nothing by Jonelle Esbach.
Incidentally, MM testified that no one at PSU ever told him to keep silent about the incident.
 

marshall23

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That's not what he told Joe.
The problem you have coming here, is that at least 10 or 15 posters know a great deal more about this case than you do. Why don't you go away and ask your employers to school you and perhaps you can return someday soon.
 
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roswelllion

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So what? It was investigated by the proper authorities and the DA declined to press charges. Nothing happened then and nothing happened the night McQueary heard slapping sounds. Allan Myers stated such.
MM didn't even talk to Joe about it for 6 weeks.
It's a good thing Dr.Dranov reported to the authorities.....opps.....I guess Mike didn't tell him anything, he felt needed a report to law enforcement or CYS?
To me that is critical. Either MM said or inferred something very serious and Dranov should have reported it OR MM didn't tell him anything serious enough to report it and therefore shouldn't have reported it. Too many folks want it both ways. "Well he sure said something that sounded very serious" and then they say well MM didn't tell Dranov he saw abuse so why would he report?
 

marshall23

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To me that is critical. Either MM said or inferred something very serious and Dranov should have reported it OR MM didn't tell him anything serious enough to report it and therefore shouldn't have reported it. Too many folks want it both ways. "Well he sure said something that sounded very serious" and then they say well MM didn't tell Dranov he saw abuse so why would he report?
Pure speculation....opinion if you will......Perhaps Mike had been visiting some taverns.....He was indeed "shook up" as he didn't expect to share the locker room that evening. Given his condition, Dad told him to come home. Dranov saw MM was upset, but had nothing that could correctly be reported to LE or CYS. Hence, make an administrative report to JVP. That was the way it was handled all the way to Tim's report to Jack.
The fact is that Mike saw nothing.....because of the layout of the LR.
Pinning the whole thing on PSU.....provided cover for the fat cats swimming in TSM and the man bites dog nature of linking Joe, was kismet.
Corbett sat on the whole thing till he was elected gov.
Then it became quid pro quo....Spanier (Corbett) for JVP (Surma and Suhey etc).
If Jonelle Eshbach didn't get sucked in by Fisher (who if he was abused .....was likely his stepfather)...
Seriously, how many grand juries didn't bite?
PSU OGBOtT offering fortunes with no vetting is something that crisis management classes will study as how not to function for decades.
 

WHCANole

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They also had the ace of charging Dad.....who thought that what Mike saw was so terrible, that he instructed junior to tell a football coach about it......LOL...
"Dad, I saw Jerry raping a little boy"......Dad...."that's serious business son....you had better tell Joe Paterno!"
Whatahole!
Not what happened.
 
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WHCANole

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He said he knew nothing about it. Lied
It was investigated by the proper authorities and the DA declined to press charges.
But PSU had a report that said Jerry was a pedophile. That is different from an elected DA not wanting to charge a local legand
Nothing happened then and nothing happened the night McQueary heard slapping sounds.
That's not what Joe said MM told him
Allan Myers stated such.
He is not victim 2
MM didn't even talk to Joe about it for 6 weeks.
False. That is BS made up by Ziegler. @JmmyW can fill you in on that. It was the next day.
It's a good thing Dr.Dranov reported to the authorities.....opps.....I guess Mike didn't tell him anything, he felt needed a report to law enforcement or CYS?
Yes, but what he told Joe and Curley and Schultz was.
 
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WHCANole

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The problem you have coming here, is that at least 10 or 15 posters know a great deal more about this case than you do. Why don't you go away and ask your employers to school you and perhaps you can return someday soon.
I know more than most of you. Most of you rely on idiots like Ziegler who are pandering to you. Have you sent him any money?
 
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WHCANole

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To me that is critical. Either MM said or inferred something very serious and Dranov should have reported it OR MM didn't tell him anything serious enough to report it and therefore shouldn't have reported it. Too many folks want it both ways. "Well he sure said something that sounded very serious" and then they say well MM didn't tell Dranov he saw abuse so why would he report?
I posted Dranov's testiony. Read it. MM was freaked out by what he saw that night and didn't tell Dranov anything much. Later when he calmed down he told Paterno and Curley and Schultz it was CSA. Joe admits this as does Schultz in the GJ. This is not hard.
 
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WHCANole

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Pure speculation....opinion if you will......Perhaps Mike had been visiting some taverns.....He was indeed "shook up" as he didn't expect to share the locker room that evening.
MM was shook up seeing a beloved pillar of the community molesting a boy in the shower
Given his condition, Dad told him to come home. Dranov saw MM was upset, but had nothing that could correctly be reported to LE or CYS. Hence, make an administrative report to JVP.
Which MM did and reported CSA which Joe corroborated in his testimony to GJ and Sassano
That was the way it was handled all the way to Tim's report to Jack.
No, Tim left out the CSA part and told Jack nothing actionable
The fact is that Mike saw nothing.....because of the layout of the LR.
Yeah he did or he wouldn't have reported. Listen to yourself. Why would MM just make up a story about seeing a beloved member of the PSU family molesting a boy? Makes no sense.
Pinning the whole thing on PSU.....provided cover for the fat cats swimming in TSM and the man bites dog nature of linking Joe, was kismet.
What cover did the Board of TSM need? Cover for what? Are you saying they all knew Sandusky was a pedophile? do you have proof of that?
Corbett sat on the whole thing till he was elected gov.
Not according to Moulton
Then it became quid pro quo....Spanier (Corbett) for JVP (Surma and Suhey etc).
What the hell does THAT mean? Conspiracy theories?
If Jonelle Eshbach didn't get sucked in by Fisher (who if he was abused .....was likely his stepfather)...
Seriously, how many grand juries didn't bite?
PSU OGBOtT offering fortunes with no vetting is something that crisis management classes will study as how not to function for decades.
This is all a conspiracy theory. Crazy. NO proof.
 

bourbon n blues

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I know of one person who saw the entire grand jury testimony, the entire AOG report , and actually worked the case .
Most of what’s put out here is silly bullshit.