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Sorrenson observation

manmythlegend1

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2014
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After watching Sorrenson and his match against Tshirt and Short from Minnesota. I really like how tough the freshman from Iowa is!! He is tough as nails and always coming after you and I appreciate that from any wrestler. Unlike many, I also appreciate the Folkstyle art of riding and trying to keep pressure on your opponent. That Being Said

I took exception last year to many Iowa fans insinuation that Retherford would stall on top as he was beating the crap out of his opponents head all period. You may disagree with me but if you watch Sorrenson ride all he does is keep the half in, and put pressure on the head while not really getting anywhere close to turning. He did this an entire period against short and tshirt. I personally love the pressure on the head (as both sorrenson and retherford do)...but how can you honestly watch sorrenson's ride and cheer and then think retherfords ride is stalling?? I don't get it??

If I had to be critical, At least Retherford breaks his opponent down, Sorrenson just puts pressure on head and hold on?

I love them both, Just pointing out some Hypocracy that gets on my nerves.
 
I agree. Iowa fans used to bitch and moan about Nelson's "spiral ride" and Sorrenson did the same "spiral ride" for an entire period. The announcers actually kept referencing the "spiral ride" throughout the second period last night.
 
I think refs should just call a stalemate if there is no indication that the hold will result in points! If the the same hold continues on the restart put them on their feet.
 
I love to watch a guy that rides tough on top. Although it can be frustrating when it's your guy underneath, IMO the guy needs to learn to get off the bottom or choose neutral. I see too many instances when the guy on the bottom doesn't work hard enough to try to get out hoping that a stall call on top will force the top man to cut him. Personally, it bothers me when the bottom guy reaches his feet and doesn't attempt to escape too. It's all strategy and geared toward taking advantage of the rules. Most guys know that they will get cut or draw a stall if that is all they do.

I've watched Gulibon get called on top for stalling a few times as he is trying to set up the tilt with the guy on the bottom just defending the tilt. It just seems to me it is hard to turn a guy that isn't trying to get out. If we stand them up all you will see is the bottom guy do even less.
 
Originally posted by psualt:

I love to watch a guy that rides tough on top. Although it can be frustrating when it's your guy underneath, IMO the guy needs to learn to get off the bottom or choose neutral. I see too many instances when the guy on the bottom doesn't work hard enough to try to get out hoping that a stall call on top will force the top man to cut him. Personally, it bothers me when the bottom guy reaches his feet and doesn't attempt to escape too. It's all strategy and geared toward taking advantage of the rules. Most guys know that they will get cut or draw a stall if that is all they do.

I've watched Gulibon get called on top for stalling a few times as he is trying to set up the tilt with the guy on the bottom just defending the tilt. It just seems to me it is hard to turn a guy that isn't trying to get out. If we stand them up all you will see is the bottom guy do even less.
I agree completely
 
Originally posted by psualt:

I love to watch a guy that rides tough on top. Although it can be frustrating when it's your guy underneath, IMO the guy needs to learn to get off the bottom or choose neutral. I see too many instances when the guy on the bottom doesn't work hard enough to try to get out hoping that a stall call on top will force the top man to cut him. Personally, it bothers me when the bottom guy reaches his feet and doesn't attempt to escape too. It's all strategy and geared toward taking advantage of the rules. Most guys know that they will get cut or draw a stall if that is all they do.

I've watched Gulibon get called on top for stalling a few times as he is trying to set up the tilt with the guy on the bottom just defending the tilt. It just seems to me it is hard to turn a guy that isn't trying to get out. If we stand them up all you will see is the bottom guy do even less.
Just ask this guy:

IMG_3403cc_ws_ja_x.JPG
 
Good choice of photos El-Jefe

That exact picture is my background photo on my computer.
 
To compare Sorensen to Nelson is kind of ridiculous. Sorensen can and does return people to the mat when they are able to get to their feet. Nelson would often push people out of bounds repeatedly and never really work for a mat return.

As for Zain - not sure where the bad blood comes from there. I always thought he wrestled tough from top and dont recall many people complaining about him (although i could be remembering incorrectly)
 
Foley last year singled out Zain as someone who stalls on top. (IMO that's dead wrong, Zain is very precise in his technique, was constantly improving position and not just working to maintain position.)

Needless to say, that column was a spark in the gas tank for PSU haters.

Pretty laughable that Foley named Zain and only Zain as a top staller, when Tony Nelson and Chris Perry were still around and were both NCAA champs. I think Foley often writes stuff just to get a reaction, and here he tried to capitalize on Zain's sudden fame after beating Stieber.
 
If they both use the spiral ride, not that ridiculous. Although I agree Sorenson a lot more aggressive on the head than nelson was. (tough for a man who is over 100lbs more in weight to be quicker and more aggressive looking than a smaller weight) To me comparing picking up and returning 149 lbs compared to 275 lbs is ridiculous.
 
As an Iowa fan my take on both Sorensen's and Zain's styles are that they do what it takes to win. Both controlled but active from their feet, with outstanding head hands defense. They have two different riding styles that opponent fans will hate, but they do what they need to do to win. The difference between them and guys like Tsirtsis and Nelson is that they will actually try and be aggressive from their feet, but they can also win the no takedown game if it comes to that.
 
Originally posted by 1stplacehawk:
As an Iowa fan my take on both Sorensen's and Zain's styles are that they do what it takes to win. Both controlled but active from their feet, with outstanding head hands defense. They have two different riding styles that opponent fans will hate, but they do what they need to do to win. The difference between them and guys like Tsirtsis and Nelson is that they will actually try and be aggressive from their feet, but they can also win the no takedown game if it comes to that.
Now this we can both agree on
3dgrin.r191677.gif
 
Sorensen has turned lesser competition but probably doesn't turn tough competition. When guys sit out into the ride, BS always tries to snap them back for cheap back points. In any event, he is always off to the side putting pressure with a half in. Refs can call stalemate but there were several restarts in the Minne match with Sorensen able to get his ride in. Same with Zain and his ride. Rewatched the Streibler/Zain match and Zain had his legs in, pressure on the head with the half. Every time he gets high, scoots back behind the arms and resets his position and starts pressing the head again. Works real well for him.
 
Originally posted by manmythlegend1:
If they both use the spiral ride, not that ridiculous. Although I agree Sorenson a lot more aggressive on the head than nelson was. (tough for a man who is over 100lbs more in weight to be quicker and more aggressive looking than a smaller weight) To me comparing picking up and returning 149 lbs compared to 275 lbs is ridiculous.
But, I am not suggesting a 149 lb guy lift and return a 275 lb guy. All things being relative, the strength required by a 149 lb guy to lift and return a 149 lb guy should be very similar to the strength required by a 275 lb guy to return a 275 lb guy.

Regardless, Nelson never did anything. No trips, no latching on to ankles, no "attempts" at lifting and returning. He simply pushed people out of bounds repeatedly and got a restart. Sorensen is much more aggressive
 
Agree with want everyone has said. Both Zain and Sorensen ride tough.
My coach always told us it is the bottom mans responeabitly to get out. If top man uses legs for his ride don't let him get the legs in. I know easier said than done. What I dislike most is when bottom man gets up and top man just graps a ankle or walks him out of bounds.
My biggest concern about Sorensen after beating T-Shirts is the way he wrestled Short. He really did not attack like he should have. No excuse for not getting some take downs in that match. Yes he got one at the end only because Short made a desperat attempt.
Remember when Metcalf beat Palmer in the finals, Metcalf had a one point lead and Palmer could ride tough so Metcalf choose netural in 3rd period so Palmer could not get riding time and Metcalf knew that Palmer would have a hard time to take him down..So really if a guy is a good rider and you feel he will ride you why take down to begin with?
 
Originally posted by hawks_82:

Originally posted by manmythlegend1:
If they both use the spiral ride, not that ridiculous. Although I agree Sorenson a lot more aggressive on the head than nelson was. (tough for a man who is over 100lbs more in weight to be quicker and more aggressive looking than a smaller weight) To me comparing picking up and returning 149 lbs compared to 275 lbs is ridiculous.
But, I am not suggesting a 149 lb guy lift and return a 275 lb guy. All things being relative, the strength required by a 149 lb guy to lift and return a 149 lb guy should be very similar to the strength required by a 275 lb guy to return a 275 lb guy.

Regardless, Nelson never did anything. No trips, no latching on to ankles, no "attempts" at lifting and returning. He simply pushed people out of bounds repeatedly and got a restart. Sorensen is much more aggressive
I guess that is why so many heavy weights do the double leg lift and dump so successfully, you may think it is relative but it is not!! It is much harder for a 275 lb guy to lift another 275 lb guy than a 149 lb guy lift a 149 lb guy...MUCH harder
 
hawks_82 wrote:
> All things being relative, the strength required by a 149 lb guy to lift and return a 149 lb guy should be very similar to the strength required by a 275 lb guy to return a 275 lb guy.

Hello hawks_82, what you say is a good guess, but actually what bigger guys can do is NOT "very similar" to what little guys can do. The reason is the same reason that a flea can jump up hundreds of times its own height, but nothing the size of a mouse can come even close to jumping up hundreds of times its own height. The general idea of non-proportionality between strength and size was such a non-intuitive result that Galileo considered it a major discovery that he had made, on par with his discoveries of the laws of motion.

-- Dogwelder
 
As opposed to Nelson or Rutherford Sorenson is almost always out to the side when riding. That is text book riding.

Nelson's almost never got out to the side when riding his spiral ride or half which is textbook stalling.

I am a little torn on Ruitherfor's ride. The only reason I don't think it is a total stall ride is he does gets pretty close to turning a lot, although doesn't really turn them that often. But if the guy isn't working the half hard I don't understand the refs just letting guys figure four 1 leg for 2 minutes straight though.

They let guys do it so good for guys like Rutherford and English for taking advantage of it, but to me it seems like almost the definition of stalling on top since it is really hard to turn a guy from there and many times they are not even trying that hard to turn them.

English won several of his Big Ten and NCAA where this ride was the difference last year and and he never came close to turning guys with the 1 leg figure 4.





This post was edited on 2/2 5:09 PM by DonHawkeye
 
Originally posted by DonHawkeye:
As opposed to Nelson or Rutherford Sorenson is almost always out to the side when riding. That is text book riding.

Nelson's almost never got out to the side when riding his spiral ride or half which is textbook stalling.

I am a little torn on Ruitherfor's ride. The only reason I don't think it is a total stall ride is he does gets pretty close to turning a lot, although doesn't really turn them that often. But if the guy isn't working the half hard I don't understand the refs just letting guys figure four 1 leg for 2 minutes straight though.

They let guys do it so good for guys like Rutherford and English for taking advantage of it, but to me it seems like almost the definition of stalling on top since it is really hard to turn a guy from there and many times they are not even trying that hard to turn them.

English won several of his Big Ten and NCAA where this ride was the difference last year and and he never came close to turning guys with the 1 leg figure 4.








This post was edited on 2/2 5:09 PM by DonHawkeye
It is an illusion...sorrenson does not get out to the side. He is parallel to his side just not on top of him like leg riders. If he was truly out to the side he would not be able to keep that right arm on the opposite side hanging on to the inner thigh. He would have to bring it up to the waist or wrist

I don't blame sorrenson for that though..turning a college level wrestler with a traditional half nelson is nearly impossible. But don't think he is working any harder to turn somebody than retherford...that is definately not the case

This post was edited on 2/2 7:14 PM by manmythlegend1

This post was edited on 2/3 6:22 PM by manmythlegend1
 
Comparing the guy that fits the old-school Hawkeye wrestling model better than anyone in a long time to Tony Nelson make me puke in my mouth Tony Nelson was a winner he got the job done but my god that he stall he stalled installed installed I'm sorry if this offends anyone.
 
Iowa hated Tony Nelson so much that they stole his coach, Big Ben Berhow, to try and help Telford win something. Now they're trying to find success by getting their wrestler's to imitate Tony's style.
 
Chickenman, help me!

Jammies trolling Iowa here is kinda ... what's the word I'm looking for?

Fun?
Hilarious?
Interesting?
Wrong?
Priceless?
Twilight Zone? X-Files? Invasion of the Jammies Snatchers?
other?
 
Re: Chickenman, help me!

Originally posted by El-Jefe:
Jammies trolling Iowa here is kinda ... what's the word I'm looking for?

Fun?
Hilarious?
Interesting?
Wrong?
Priceless?
Twilight Zone? X-Files? Invasion of the Jammies Snatchers?
other?
I'd go with hilarious.


I'd
 
Originally posted by JoseyWhales:
Comparing the guy that fits the old-school Hawkeye wrestling model better than anyone in a long time to Tony Nelson make me puke in my mouth Tony Nelson was a winner he got the job done but my god that he stall he stalled installed installed I'm sorry if this offends anyone.
OMG, JoseyWhales (note the h in Whales) is back from his long hibernation. Welcome back JW.
 
I added the H because I'm kind of chubby... ;)
I haven't been around for a long time, not really a reason for it at first but had a health issue. Thought I would come back and check you guys out. Lots of good stuff over hear and some of the same garbage that is on every message board. More good than bad. Especially if i just keep my mouth shut and read! ;)

This post was edited on 2/3 7:30 PM by JoseyWhales
 
Welcome back brother.
Originally posted by JoseyWhales:
I added the H because I'm kind of chubby... ;)
I haven't been around for a long time, not really a reason for it at first but had a health issue. Thought I would come back and check you guys out. Lots of good stuff over hear and some of the same garbage that is on every message board. More good than bad. Especially if i just keep my mouth shut and reed! ;)
 
Re: Chickenman, help me!


Originally posted by El-Jefe:
Jammies trolling Iowa here is kinda ... what's the word I'm looking for?

Fun?
Hilarious?
Interesting?
Wrong?
Priceless?
Twilight Zone? X-Files? Invasion of the Jammies Snatchers?
other?
Haha...Jammen is open for business. He's trolling you all on HR. Too much respect going on between Iowa and PSU these days...He's gotta light a match and see if it will burn.
 
good to see you posting again Josey..met you in Iowa two years ago and drank a few beers in the hotel bar with you .... great conversation .... so hope to see the Josey Whales handle back on the board...and besides the movie "The Outlaw Josey Wales" is one of my top all time fav movies ..especially the line you use in your posts...lol
 
Originally posted by jammenz:
Iowa hated Tony Nelson so much that they stole his coach, Big Ben Berhow, to try and help Telford win something. Now they're trying to find success by getting their wrestler's to imitate Tony's style.
You want some cheese with that whine?Had a blast in Minneapolis last Friday how about you?
 
tough balls


It's just tough balls, if you're on bottom, it's your job to get up and out. simple. Where I come from, if you can't get out, you lose.

"I choose down" was painful to watch, but nonetheless, quite accurate. (glad it's gone)
 
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