Some back ground on The Outlaw Josey Wales....which airs Friday night on The Outdoor Channel

The Spin Meister

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Movie credits say it was based on the book Gone to Texas by Forrest Carter. More on that later.

Looked up some of the names used in the movie to find that many of them are true historical figures but Josey Wales, along with the Indian Chief, were fictional. Opening scenes show his family being killed by people with red leggings. Turns there was a group of marauders that were not Union regulars but fought against the south. A very bloody and ruthless group. More here.

After he buries his wife and son a group of riders pull up and one introduces himself as Bill Anderson, says the are riding to Kansas to set things right, and Josey says ‘I’ll be riding with you”. Bloody Bill Anderson was the leader of a group of Southern sympathizers that wrecked havoc across Kansas and Missouri during the Civil War. Bloody Bill was also a ruthless marauder with a long list of battles, and died before the war ended. More on Bloody Bill Anderson here


Later in the movie, there is mention of Gen Joe Shelby that fled to Texas to continue fighting. Shelby had been involved in border wars between Kansas and Missouri before the Civil War and eventually became a general in the Confederate Army. After the war he went to Mexico with 1,000 men and offered his men To Maximilian as a foreign service, which was refused. But they were given land in Mexico called the New Virginia Colony but were forced out a couple years later after Maximilian was overthrown and executed. He eventually returned to Missouri and became a US Marshal.


So the book Gone to Texas was originally released as The Rebel Outlaw: Josey Wales . While promoting the book the author Forrest Carter was on a tour promoting his book when he was recognized and outed as Asa Earl Carter, a sgregationistnthat worked as a speech writer for Gov George Wallace and helped write the famous speech in which Wallace said “Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!”. He later had a falling out with Wallace and ran against him. Eastwood later made the movie not knowing about Asa Carter’s past.



Found this all pretty fascinating. Having seen the movie numerous times always wondered how historically accurate it was. Hope you found this worthwhile.
 

RaymondReddington

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Sep 13, 2021
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Movie credits say it was based on the book Gone to Texas by Forrest Carter. More on that later.

Looked up some of the names used in the movie to find that many of them are true historical figures but Josey Wales, along with the Indian Chief, were fictional. Opening scenes show his family being killed by people with red leggings. Turns there was a group of marauders that were not Union regulars but fought against the south. A very bloody and ruthless group. More here.

After he buries his wife and son a group of riders pull up and one introduces himself as Bill Anderson, says the are riding to Kansas to set things right, and Josey says ‘I’ll be riding with you”. Bloody Bill Anderson was the leader of a group of Southern sympathizers that wrecked havoc across Kansas and Missouri during the Civil War. Bloody Bill was also a ruthless marauder with a long list of battles, and died before the war ended. More on Bloody Bill Anderson here


Later in the movie, there is mention of Gen Joe Shelby that fled to Texas to continue fighting. Shelby had been involved in border wars between Kansas and Missouri before the Civil War and eventually became a general in the Confederate Army. After the war he went to Mexico with 1,000 men and offered his men To Maximilian as a foreign service, which was refused. But they were given land in Mexico called the New Virginia Colony but were forced out a couple years later after Maximilian was overthrown and executed. He eventually returned to Missouri and became a US Marshal.


So the book Gone to Texas was originally released as The Rebel Outlaw: Josey Wales . While promoting the book the author Forrest Carter was on a tour promoting his book when he was recognized and outed as Asa Earl Carter, a sgregationistnthat worked as a speech writer for Gov George Wallace and helped write the famous speech in which Wallace said “Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!”. He later had a falling out with Wallace and ran against him. Eastwood later made the movie not knowing about Asa Carter’s past.



Found this all pretty fascinating. Having seen the movie numerous times always wondered how historically accurate it was. Hope you found this worthwhile.
The ferry operator also referred to Bill Quantrill using the ferry all the time.

 

The Spin Meister

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The ferry operator also referred to Bill Quantrill using the ferry all the time.

Missed that one. Didn’t find anything on Fletcher or about any massacre of the Bill Anderson fighters by Union soldiers.

Also meant to point out how the movie painted the Jnjon in a bad light ....not surprising when you know that Carter was a segregationist. Also, he took the name Forest Carter after a Confederate General Forest that was also the first head of the KKK.
 
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CoastGuard2018

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Movie credits say it was based on the book Gone to Texas by Forrest Carter. More on that later.

Looked up some of the names used in the movie to find that many of them are true historical figures but Josey Wales, along with the Indian Chief, were fictional. Opening scenes show his family being killed by people with red leggings. Turns there was a group of marauders that were not Union regulars but fought against the south. A very bloody and ruthless group. More here.

After he buries his wife and son a group of riders pull up and one introduces himself as Bill Anderson, says the are riding to Kansas to set things right, and Josey says ‘I’ll be riding with you”. Bloody Bill Anderson was the leader of a group of Southern sympathizers that wrecked havoc across Kansas and Missouri during the Civil War. Bloody Bill was also a ruthless marauder with a long list of battles, and died before the war ended. More on Bloody Bill Anderson here


Later in the movie, there is mention of Gen Joe Shelby that fled to Texas to continue fighting. Shelby had been involved in border wars between Kansas and Missouri before the Civil War and eventually became a general in the Confederate Army. After the war he went to Mexico with 1,000 men and offered his men To Maximilian as a foreign service, which was refused. But they were given land in Mexico called the New Virginia Colony but were forced out a couple years later after Maximilian was overthrown and executed. He eventually returned to Missouri and became a US Marshal.


So the book Gone to Texas was originally released as The Rebel Outlaw: Josey Wales . While promoting the book the author Forrest Carter was on a tour promoting his book when he was recognized and outed as Asa Earl Carter, a sgregationistnthat worked as a speech writer for Gov George Wallace and helped write the famous speech in which Wallace said “Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!”. He later had a falling out with Wallace and ran against him. Eastwood later made the movie not knowing about Asa Carter’s past.



Found this all pretty fascinating. Having seen the movie numerous times always wondered how historically accurate it was. Hope you found this worthwhile.
Watch him Abe! He’s mean as a rattler ad twice as fast with them pistols!
 

RaymondReddington

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Missed that one. Didn’t find anything on Fletcher or about any massacre of the Bill Anderson fighters by Union soldiers.

Also meant to point out how the movie painted the Jnjon in a bad light ....not surprising when you know that Carter was a segregationist. Also, he took the name Forester Carter after a Confederate General Forester hat was also the first head of the KKK.
The other representatives of the Five Civilized Tribes (John Jumper, Chili McIntosh, Buffalo Hump, and Jim Pockmark) were real Indians.

As for the “Forrest” in Forrest Carter, I think it refers to Nathan Bedford Forrest. He was a Confederate General and first Grand Wizard of the KKK.
 
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RaymondReddington

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“Got the gold right here, pa!” “Fooled them again, didn’t we, Josey”
That movie may have more great lines than any other movie in history. I think my favorite is when granny is in the general store talking about folks from Missouri being no good. The clerk tells her he’s a Hoosier, and she says “I don’t care much for Hoosiers neither”. Of course, “don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s raining” is pretty strong too. 😂😂
 

The Spin Meister

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That movie may have more great lines than any other movie in history. I think my favorite is when granny is in the general store talking about folks from Missouri being no good. The clerk tells her he’s a Hoosier, and she says “I don’t care much for Hoosiers neither”. Of course, “don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s raining” is pretty strong too. 😂😂
“You a bounty hunter?”

“Mans got to something for a livin”

“Dying ain’t much of a livin, son”
 

SR108

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Movie credits say it was based on the book Gone to Texas by Forrest Carter. More on that later.

Looked up some of the names used in the movie to find that many of them are true historical figures but Josey Wales, along with the Indian Chief, were fictional. Opening scenes show his family being killed by people with red leggings. Turns there was a group of marauders that were not Union regulars but fought against the south. A very bloody and ruthless group. More here.

After he buries his wife and son a group of riders pull up and one introduces himself as Bill Anderson, says the are riding to Kansas to set things right, and Josey says ‘I’ll be riding with you”. Bloody Bill Anderson was the leader of a group of Southern sympathizers that wrecked havoc across Kansas and Missouri during the Civil War. Bloody Bill was also a ruthless marauder with a long list of battles, and died before the war ended. More on Bloody Bill Anderson here


Later in the movie, there is mention of Gen Joe Shelby that fled to Texas to continue fighting. Shelby had been involved in border wars between Kansas and Missouri before the Civil War and eventually became a general in the Confederate Army. After the war he went to Mexico with 1,000 men and offered his men To Maximilian as a foreign service, which was refused. But they were given land in Mexico called the New Virginia Colony but were forced out a couple years later after Maximilian was overthrown and executed. He eventually returned to Missouri and became a US Marshal.


So the book Gone to Texas was originally released as The Rebel Outlaw: Josey Wales . While promoting the book the author Forrest Carter was on a tour promoting his book when he was recognized and outed as Asa Earl Carter, a sgregationistnthat worked as a speech writer for Gov George Wallace and helped write the famous speech in which Wallace said “Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!”. He later had a falling out with Wallace and ran against him. Eastwood later made the movie not knowing about Asa Carter’s past.



Found this all pretty fascinating. Having seen the movie numerous times always wondered how historically accurate it was. Hope you found this worthwhile.
Ride with the Devil is a pretty good movie starring Tobey Maguire Skeet Ulrich and Jewel that deals with the Kansas Missouri guerilla fighting that took place before, during and after the civil war.
 
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Little J

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Filmed in America's Little Hollywood - Kanab Utah. In fact, what remains of the set sits on a Western museum grounds on the skirt of this little gem of a town. If I remember right it is the homestead building - in Sweetwater. Worth a look if you ever find yourself in Kanab.
 
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rohrmd9

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Intersting...honestly I never really bothered to care if it was based on any kind of "real" charaters or happenings...it's just a highly entertaining movie with tons of awesome quotable material...as this thread is demonstrating.
 

PearlandLion

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If you talk to folks in the upstate of SC, Manse Jolly was the inspiration for Josey in both the book and movie. Manse fought for the Confederacy and lost four older brothers in the war. He returned bitter under Reconstruction rule and vowed to kill five Yankees for each dead brother. He became a Robin Hood-type figure around Anderson County, taking back items taken by the occupation force and waylaying Yankee soldiers at night. Avoiding a bounty, Jolly fled to Cameron County TX where he drowned while crossing a swollen steam at the age of 29. I found his grave a few years ago in a small country Baptist cemetery near College Station.
 

PSUEngineer89

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If you talk to folks in the upstate of SC, Manse Jolly was the inspiration for Josey in both the book and movie. Manse fought for the Confederacy and lost four older brothers in the war. He returned bitter under Reconstruction rule and vowed to kill five Yankees for each dead brother. He became a Robin Hood-type figure around Anderson County, taking back items taken by the occupation force and waylaying Yankee soldiers at night. Avoiding a bounty, Jolly fled to Cameron County TX where he drowned while crossing a swollen steam at the age of 29. I found his grave a few years ago in a small country Baptist cemetery near College Station.
Fascinating!
 

The Spin Meister

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If you talk to folks in the upstate of SC, Manse Jolly was the inspiration for Josey in both the book and movie. Manse fought for the Confederacy and lost four older brothers in the war. He returned bitter under Reconstruction rule and vowed to kill five Yankees for each dead brother. He became a Robin Hood-type figure around Anderson County, taking back items taken by the occupation force and waylaying Yankee soldiers at night. Avoiding a bounty, Jolly fled to Cameron County TX where he drowned while crossing a swollen steam at the age of 29. I found his grave a few years ago in a small country Baptist cemetery near College Station.
I would think that there are lots of such legends in every state or region. For one thing it was a horrific war that dragged on for years. That leads to all sorts of rumors, revenge, and retaliation that escalates as the war drags on. It is also necessary to have legends and heroes to worship and emulate. If there were no heroic men, some would have been created to help the cause.

Not saying that there no incredibly brave, skilled, and/or ruthless men. Just saying take all stories with a grain of salt. As for the Josey Wales story it is likely a compilation of various stories and legends. But with all the references to actual historic people like the Red Legs, Bloody Bill Anderson, Gen Shelby along with the Kansas/Missourians backdrop I doubt it has any to do with SC.

Would be interesting to see a write up of all the legendary figures of those times. But it would be massive.
 

brupsu

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Movie credits say it was based on the book Gone to Texas by Forrest Carter. More on that later.

Looked up some of the names used in the movie to find that many of them are true historical figures but Josey Wales, along with the Indian Chief, were fictional. Opening scenes show his family being killed by people with red leggings. Turns there was a group of marauders that were not Union regulars but fought against the south. A very bloody and ruthless group. More here.

After he buries his wife and son a group of riders pull up and one introduces himself as Bill Anderson, says the are riding to Kansas to set things right, and Josey says ‘I’ll be riding with you”. Bloody Bill Anderson was the leader of a group of Southern sympathizers that wrecked havoc across Kansas and Missouri during the Civil War. Bloody Bill was also a ruthless marauder with a long list of battles, and died before the war ended. More on Bloody Bill Anderson here


Later in the movie, there is mention of Gen Joe Shelby that fled to Texas to continue fighting. Shelby had been involved in border wars between Kansas and Missouri before the Civil War and eventually became a general in the Confederate Army. After the war he went to Mexico with 1,000 men and offered his men To Maximilian as a foreign service, which was refused. But they were given land in Mexico called the New Virginia Colony but were forced out a couple years later after Maximilian was overthrown and executed. He eventually returned to Missouri and became a US Marshal.


So the book Gone to Texas was originally released as The Rebel Outlaw: Josey Wales . While promoting the book the author Forrest Carter was on a tour promoting his book when he was recognized and outed as Asa Earl Carter, a sgregationistnthat worked as a speech writer for Gov George Wallace and helped write the famous speech in which Wallace said “Segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!”. He later had a falling out with Wallace and ran against him. Eastwood later made the movie not knowing about Asa Carter’s past.



Found this all pretty fascinating. Having seen the movie numerous times always wondered how historically accurate it was. Hope you found this worthwhile.
Arguably the best western ever made
Personally this ,Tombstone,magnificent seven first version and Silverado and so many more.
They may get me in a rush but not before I make your head a canoe
.You are not as stupid as you look Ike.
 

TN Lion

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If you talk to folks in the upstate of SC, Manse Jolly was the inspiration for Josey in both the book and movie. Manse fought for the Confederacy and lost four older brothers in the war. He returned bitter under Reconstruction rule and vowed to kill five Yankees for each dead brother. He became a Robin Hood-type figure around Anderson County, taking back items taken by the occupation force and waylaying Yankee soldiers at night. Avoiding a bounty, Jolly fled to Cameron County TX where he drowned while crossing a swollen steam at the age of 29. I found his grave a few years ago in a small country Baptist cemetery near College Station.
There are many interesting stories surrounding the war. I'm reading a book now, Jack Hinson's One-Man War, A Civil War Sniper. Lived in West Tennessee and clearly chose to stay out of the war even graciously hosting both Union and Confederate generals that travelled through the area. The Union had quickly gained control of the area but were frustrated by small Confederate raiding parties employing hit and run tactics on the Union forces. Two of Hinson's sons were out on their property hunting squirrels when confronted by a Union patrol who accused the boys of being bushwhackers. The troops not only executed the boys but further abused the bodies by decapitating them and placing their heads on the gateposts of the Hinson Family estate.

Hinson would exact revenge. He commissioned a special rifle from Germany, a heavy barreled .50 caliber weapon designed for long-range accuracy. He said goodbye to his family and took to the wilderness seeking revenge. And revenge he got, killing over 100 union soldiers targeting exclusively, officers. He was never caught and lived out the balance of his life, I believe in Arkansas.
 

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