So, has Pat Chambers saved his job...
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Clearly the expectations of lots of PSU basketball fans match that of the administration. Pat failed to make it to the NCAA Tourney with the best recruiting class we’ve had in years. How anyone can be happy with 0 for 8 is beyond me.
I don't think anyone is "happy" with it. I put up with it because the university refuses to invest in the program. So long as we're bottom 3 in spending, there's no reason to expect more than we're getting. If we start spending a lot, my expectations will increase. I don't see that happening.
Is the Rutgers football program just a few million dollars away from being an annual contender in the Big Ten East?
Stevens isn't big enough to be a PF in the NBA and he doesn't shoot well enough to be a SF. Doesn't mean he can't earn 6 figures in Europe.
If he wants any crack whatsoever in the NBA he’s gotta do better than 22.6% from college three point line. He’s insane if he thinks he will her drafted in the NBA. But if he wants to go play in Europe to make money, then he can make a nice living doing so.
His players never quit on him. AT 0-10 in the bigs they could have mailed it in. 2 non calls against Purdue and Wisconsin and that's nine wins. They beat some quality opponents. Was that enough, I doubt it but they were fun to watch when they got rolling.
Dunn was alienating the team, that's never a good sign for the long run. Both DeChellis and Chambers are exact opposites in that the players respect them and enjoy playing for them.
That’s our Barry... everyone else is a moron, but he knows what they don’t know. Of course, he’ll never tell you the answers, though. Just that everyone else is wrong.(I don’t know the answers to those questions - obviously. But I have a pretty good idea what those answers may be...... and I am pretty damn sure no one at PSU has any idea what those answers likely are)
https://psuzone.com/who-will-decide...ll-coach-at-penn-state-probably-pat-chambers/
Great article on the Pat Chambers Contract Discussion
"Barbour extended Pat Chambers less than a year ago, taking his contract through the 2021-22 season. The numbers align in such a way that it is likely that if Chambers is to be extended further, it would be Barbour that would make the decision.
As with every Penn State men’s basketball coach in the history of the program, another extension from Barbour would likely mean that Chambers will remain in place until he decides that it is time to retire or move on to another opportunity.
Considering Barbour has supported Chambers both contractually and publicly, it seems unlikely that she would decide to fire the head coach so soon after extending him. Here is what Barbour had to say following the win against Maryland less than a week ago.
So happy for this crew! They never stopped believing and now it’s paying off! #Next #WeAre #OneTeam@PennStateMBB https://t.co/UenGuHEnfE
— Sandy Barbour (@SandyB_PSUAD) February 28, 2019
Barbour has given her support to Chambers all season, even while the team struggled to an 0-10 Big Ten start. In early January, some speculated that the support of the Athletic Director was a kiss of death. Now it seems like the support was genuine.
Chambers has gotten a great deal of credit for the coaching job that he has done this year, but unless you read publications outside the Penn State sphere, or watch the games and hear the various announcers singing their praise, you may have missed it. For those who analyze more than just wins and losses, the Lions have over-achieved this season. The record is exactly what it should be, 12-17. That’s what happens when you lose so many close games, your record stinks."
Dunn was fired, contrary to what that says. DeChellis left before he could be fired, as he was going into the next season with a pretty empty roster (that Pat inherited).
I am at a complete loss as to what the emboldened comment is supposed to mean. The exact opposite is true. Those who have been paying attention to the team's metrics, i.e. "more than just wins and losses", will tell you that the team under-achieved. Their record should have been better. It's only this poor as a result of a remarkable string of bad luck.
Or bad coaching? At what point is it luck, and at what point is it how the program is run? Every year is a bunch of ifs... if player X hadn’t left, if player Y had developed faster, if player Z didn’t have heaith issues, if the team had jelled earlier in the season, if the ref had called that foul, if we had made just a couple more shots or free throws in a few games, if we had played an easier schedule, if we hadn’t played so many cupcakes... at what point does the head coach have to take responsibility for the team? When things go right, Chambers is praised, when they go wrong, it’s bad luck.
What bad luck? Maybe the no call on Stevens in the Purdue loss but what else? I don't think struggling to make plays to close out games like DePaul, Bradley, and Minnesota is bad luck.
I think you’re confusing “luck” with Pomeroy (or other metrics) with real world “luck”. Ken isn’t looking at injuries, transfers, bad calls, etc. It’s simply where your record is vs where it actually is on a season.
Transfers are on Pat. Not having enough depth, or having to break in freshman guards is on Pat. But this team is better than you’d think simply looking at their 14-17 record (hence why those that actually have a vested financial interest in this will have us favored on Thursday against NCAA-bound Minnesota).
"Bad luck" per Charley Tuna: The reason that you lose close games is that you weren't good enough to win them.
I agree that the team has been playing better then it’s overall record for the last month. And not all of the situations I listed fall under luck, but they are excuses used to defend the job Pat is doing. My question is, at what point do you stop saying if this, if that, then we’d be right there and just admit... we’re not there?
I was a big Pat supporter up until last year. I got back on the train, albeit with one foot, when they turned things around mid-season. I jumped back off after this year’s start to the season. Pat has done a lot to improve the program, even if it hasn’t always shown up in the win column. But my gut says this is the best it’s going to get with him. After 8 years, I think we’ve seen enough. I would love to be wrong, but I highly suspect that next year it’ll be more if, if, if...
The same excuses do get old. Unfortunately they are the reality for a program that receives no financial support from the school and has no history or tradition. Every season will be on a razor's edge in that scenario, and the slightest bad luck will turn it. Unlike established or well-funded programs, PSU can't overcome bad luck. VaTech couldn't have overcome losing perhaps their best player a few years ago, they would've been awful in that instance. But they went and spent money on Buzz Williams and developed a roster that could handle it. Penn State will not spend that money.
How different is Jerry Dunn's era if Joe Crispin leaves after his sophomore year? If Gyasi Cline-Heard gets hurt. If Titus Ivory went academically ineligible during a key stretch of games. Unfortunately those are things Chambers has had to deal with, and are bad luck..
There are certainly reasons to move along from Pat. If we were a big-time basketball school, he'd have been canned already (obviously). But, there are also reasons to keep him. He's made recruiting inroads in key areas that we've never broken into in the past. We have a "pipeline" to the best High School program in the state (their last 5 kids with high-major offers all came to us), and they've got two more big-time kids playing there today. We've got another couple of quality players on the way in Lundy and McCoy. If this is the offseason where things finally work out and Lamar/Mike both decide to come back, we've got a borderline top 25 team heading into next season.
We move on from Pat, and we'll be tearing it down. I don't have confidence that we'd get the coach to quickly build it back up. I don't want to deal with a mass exodus, getting blown out every night, being several years away, etc, unless we really feel that we have to.
I think a lot depends on if Stevens comes back. IMO the offense and the rebounding will really suffer without Stevens. What other inside scoring do we have?We will be having this conversation about Chambers at this time next year, and the year after that, and the year after that...unless Sandy finally makes a change. Then we will be having this conversation about that guy.
If we were a middling basketball school, he would have been fired long ago.
There are arguments on both sides, I can see that. This wasn’t going to be a quick turnaround. I fully expect Pat to be back next year. I think Sandy will give him every reasonable opportunity to succeed on the cheap. I’m not as concerned with all the players bolting if another coach is brought in, as I was a couple of years ago. I think the foundation of the program is better now. Though it depends heavily on the coach. And if Sandy can come up with the money to hire a coach and staff that would keep them. I think that’s the biggest wildcard.
I'd love to see that analysis. Of course there is nothing else to explain those movements, like roster changes which, in college basketball can be very fluid, quality of opposition from one year to next, etc.
That also would be on who we hire. If we fired Chambers, we would actually be investing in this program and would not be hiring the next coach on the cheap.
I don’t think you can assume that. The finances are the finances. I would hope that we could come up with more money. But I don’t think you can assume firing Pat means a bigger investment in the program. Which is the biggest argument for keeping him.
The thing is, we'd likely be paying a premium on whoever we get due to the fact that we have a poor basketball history. And in additional to whatever we pay that coach, we'll also be paying more for his assistants, other upgrades he wants for the program, etc.
I look at someone like Brad Underwood. He's probably well out of our ballpark financially (when he was hired at Illinois). Does anyone think we'd be in a better place today with him as our coach?
I fully would expect a John Becker, Tim Cluess, Kyle Smith, etc. And I would rather Pat coach this team in 2019-2020 than one of those guys (assuming we don't have a mass exodus).
I look at someone like Brad Underwood. He's probably well out of our ballpark financially (when he was hired at Illinois). Does anyone think we'd be in a better place today with him as our coach?
I fully would expect a John Becker, Tim Cluess, Kyle Smith, etc. And I would rather Pat coach this team in 2019-2020 than one of those guys (assuming we don't have a mass exodus).
The question then is where does PSU go from there? Say the pieces are in place to make the dance and it happens. Will PSU be in a position to make it the following year, and the year after that, and the year after that? Or is the ride a roller coaster and how deep and wide are the dips?
The objective that we all want to see is a sustained level of success. Is Chambers the coach to make it happen? Can/wil he do it if the program is underfunded? Is there any strategy coming from the AD or is it a spitball approach?
That's no a formula for success. Let's assume that Pat is a great coach and it took him 8+ seasons to achieve the breakthrough and sustains success for 2-3 years. How long do you think it takes before he moves on unless there is a drastic change on the part of management?
So, has Pat Chambers saved his job....?
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So, have the PSU players saved Pat Chambers’ job....?
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So, have the PSU players saved Pat Chambers’ job....?
I'd think that with our recruiting approach, the blueprint is more sustainable. If we can keep those relationships with the Roman Catholics and Gonzagas, we're in a much better position than when we were plucking players from Albany, Houston, Kentucky, etc. I think it's pretty clear that Pat has raised the floor of the program, to the point where a top 50ish team with a 1st round bye in the Big Ten tourney is seen as a disappointment. But he hasn't hit that next step that they need yet.
If we're going to spend an extra million or two, I'd rather it be on an upgrade to another assistant, another good buy game or two to help with our buzz and help sell tickets and marketing, I don't think spending it on Pat's buyout and John Becker is the right move (yet at least).
Get out of here with “a top 50 team with a 1st round b1g bye is a disappointment” garbage. Unlike in your rainbows and butterflies loony bin everyone gets a trophy world, wins and losses actually matter.
Think that the recruiting base has to be broader than two schools for a variety of reasons. And if you're not in the Dance, being a Top 50 team with first round bye is a booby prize.
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