Since most of us will never be able to play Pine Valley....

[psu_1294]

Odd comment. People are all spread out across the course, and you most often cannot see other holes. No one really gives a rat's ass who you are or aren't.

He might be African American. It is sad that some courses are so non-inclusive. That is changing, but slowly. Clubs will not survive if they aren’t more inclusive.

He’s welcome at my club. I am probably in the lowest 10% of our members, income/net worth wise. However, if I play by rules, play quickly, know the courtesies and pay off my bets quickly, I feel very welcome!

 

[psuro]

He might be African American. It is sad that some courses are so non-inclusive. That is changing, but slowly. Clubs will not survive if they aren’t more inclusive.

He’s welcome at my club. I am probably in the lowest 10% of our members, income/net worth wise. However, if I play by rules, play quickly, know the courtesies and pay off my bets quickly, I feel very welcome!

Welll I know three people at PV. 1 white 1 black 1 from India. Never heard any comments about race. Crappy and slow play -yes. But not race.

I am probably below median at my club also. But I am single so if you include dual income families it's even lower. It no issues for me with exception of long time members who prefer to socialize and play with those they know. Which is fine. I think of most social organizations as being glorified high school cliques anyway

 

[LafayetteBear]

It gives privacy a new definition

Can they outdo Cypress Point? That course used to be in the Crosby/AT&T rotation, but the membership bailed when the PGA started asking about whether they had any minority or female members. Not sure where they are on that now, as it's been a long time since they ceased being a part of the Crosby.

But their membership is tiny, and extremely well heeled. They apparently just tote up the annual cost of operating the club (salaries, benefits, insurance, maintenance, all of it) at the end of each year, divide that total by the number of members, and send everyone a bill for his share. LOL. And the members can certainly afford it. That is some of the most expensive real estate on earth.

 

[psuro]

Can they outdo Cypress Point? That course used to be in the Crosby/AT&T rotation, but the membership bailed when the PGA started asking about whether they had any minority or female members. Not sure where they are on that now, as it's been a long time since they ceased being a part of the Crosby.

But their membership is tiny, and extremely well heeled. They apparently just tote up the annual cost of operating the club (salaries, benefits, insurance, maintenance, all of it) at the end of each year, divide that total by the number of members, and send everyone a bill for his share. LOL. And the members can certainly afford it. That is some of the most expensive real estate on earth.

Only men can be members and women who are related to members can only play Sunday afternoons. There are houses around the course but a woman cannot live there by herself.

You can only be a member if nominated by a current member. And yes there are limits to how many rounds a member can play per year.

And it's typically the #1 course in the country -consistently ahead of Cyoress Spyglass and other courses.

 

[PeetzPoolBoy]

Does anyone know what the initiation and annual membership fees are at the Pine Valley Snobatorium?

 

[delcoLion]

I wouldn't be interested in playing Pine Valley. A beautiful layout, to be sure, but FAR too punishing. Unless you can back the ball up with approach shots into greens, you're not gonna hit many. No aprons in front or back. The landing area for drives is far too small on many fairways. This course is a good layout for a pro tournament or maybe a U.S. Open, but it is almost absurd to put amateur golfers on a track like this, and that is the bulk of the play they get..

I saw the course during the 1985 Walker Cup. Some very recognizable names on the American side, 2 biggest names were D. Love 3rd & Colin Montgomerie for GB & Ireland.

Obviously, it's an awesome place but I do wonder how it would hold up against today's players. These guys hit a 2 iron 250+ yards, so the tee shot wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Erial_Lion]

I saw the course during the 1985 Walker Cup. Some very recognizable names on the American side, 2 biggest names were D. Love 3rd & Colin Montgomerie for GB & Ireland.

Obviously, it's an awesome place but I do wonder how it would hold up against today's players. These guys hit a 2 iron 250+ yards, so the tee shot wouldn't be a problem.

Here are scores from last year's Crump Cup stroke play rounds. Serious golf fans will recognize a bunch of names, but even more casual fans might know Hagestad from his success over the past 18 months (especially at Augusta)...

http://www.amateurgolf.com/images/uploads/00034890.pdf

 

[ILLINOISLION]

He might be African American. It is sad that some courses are so non-inclusive. That is changing, but slowly. Clubs will not survive if they aren’t more inclusive.

He’s welcome at my club. I am probably in the lowest 10% of our members, income/net worth wise. However, if I play by rules, play quickly, know the courtesies and pay off my bets quickly, I feel very welcome!

I belong to Skokie CC in Glencoe, IL, have been a member there since 1985. When I joined I was the youngest of 300 members and certainly an exception to the rule: I had a beard, I did not live within 5 miles of the club (like 90% of the members did) and certainly grew up more likely to be a caddy there than a member.

Being divorced for 20 years and living 20 miles from the club, I’m there for the golf. Having had PSU football season tickets for almost 25 years is my only other (admitted) vice and I’m DEFINITELY without question among the 5 lowest members of the club in net income (although hopefully better than that in net worth).

I’ve posted several times here over the years that I’d be more than happy to have McAndrew posters out to my club so they can play a great golf course. Gene Sarazen won the US Open in 1922, we hosted the US Senior Amateur in 1998, we’ve hosted the Western Amateur in 2010 and again this past summer.

I’ll take ANYONE out. In fact, years ago I met psuro the Sunday after a PSU-NW game but we were rained out.....I still owe him a round!

 

[ILLINOISLION]

Can they outdo Cypress Point? That course used to be in the Crosby/AT&T rotation, but the membership bailed when the PGA started asking about whether they had any minority or female members. Not sure where they are on that now, as it's been a long time since they ceased being a part of the Crosby.

But their membership is tiny, and extremely well heeled. They apparently just tote up the annual cost of operating the club (salaries, benefits, insurance, maintenance, all of it) at the end of each year, divide that total by the number of members, and send everyone a bill for his share. LOL. And the members can certainly afford it. That is some of the most expensive real estate on earth.

LB - A member of my club was also a member of The Chicago Golf Club in Wheaton, IL. Very very exclusive, maybe the first golf club west of the Hudson River. Ranked #1 in Illinois / ranked #14 in the USA. Fortunately got to play this 5-6 times before my friend passed a few years ago. Never saw more than 2-3 groups on the course. An incredibly wonderful experience.

But, my point, same thing as CP: maybe 125 members, the club just totalled up their annual costs/expenses and the members got an annual bill.

 

[psu_1294]

I belong to Skokie CC in Glencoe, IL, have been a member there since 1985. When I joined I was the youngest of 300 members and certainly an exception to the rule: I had a beard, I did not live within 5 miles of the club (like 90% of the members did) and certainly grew up more likely to be a caddy there than a member.

Being divorced for 20 years and living 20 miles from the club, I’m there for the golf. Having had PSU football season tickets for almost 25 years is my only other (admitted) vice and I’m DEFINITELY without question among the 5 lowest members of the club in net income (although hopefully better than that in net worth).

I’ve posted several times here over the years that I’d be more than happy to have McAndrew posters out to my club so they can play a great golf course. Gene Sarazen won the US Open in 1922, we hosted the US Senior Amateur in 1998, we’ve hosted the Western Amateur in 2010 and again this past summer.

I’ll take ANYONE out. In fact, years ago I met psuro the Sunday after a PSU-NW game but we were rained out.....I still owe him a round!

Because you own season football tickets, your net worth is already much more valuable than mine (lol)!

Skokie is an old Ross course IIRC. In the 80’s, I belonged to a Ross course in Pittsburgh. Loved it. A little short for today’s equipment, but lots of fun and challenging. Could shoot good numbers one day, but be a little off the next and you’d skyrocket. In late 70’s, I played golf with Jerry Rich, before Rich Harvest Farms. He invited me to Butler National but I never got to go. I missed a big opportunity back then by not cultivating a friendship with him!

Since I moved several times early in my career, I have belonged to seven golf clubs, but primarily for the golf. All but one was a CC. I have never been in a country club pool! In 50 years of belonging to clubs, I probably went to two club “formals”. Don’t eat there much (100% higher than WaWa for lunch) and because I don’t like to play cards for money, I don’t hang out there. I can drink beer at a local establishment for half the cost and “where everybody knows your name”.

 

[psu_1294]

LB - A member of my club was also a member of The Chicago Golf Club in Wheaton, IL. Very very exclusive, maybe the first golf club west of the Hudson River. Ranked #1 in Illinois / ranked #14 in the USA. Fortunately got to play this 5-6 times before my friend passed a few years ago. Never saw more than 2-3 groups on the course. An incredibly wonderful experience.

But, my point, same thing as CP: maybe 125 members, the club just totalled up their annual costs/expenses and the members got an annual bill.

Most members at the “elite” clubs expect an assessment and dues increases every year.

Curiously, Augusta National, because of the money they make from the Masters and because it closes in the summer, is not overly expensive. However, it is very difficult to get in.

 

[psuro]

Most members at the “elite” clubs expect an assessment and dues increases every year.

Curiously, Augusta National, because of the money they make from the Masters and because it closes in the summer, is not overly expensive. However, it is very difficult to get in.

Might be easier to get in a round of golf in North Korea than a round of golf in Augusta.

 

[psu_1294]

Here are scores from last year's Crump Cup stroke play rounds. Serious golf fans will recognize a bunch of names, but even more casual fans might know Hagestad from his success over the past 18 months (especially at Augusta)...

http://www.amateurgolf.com/images/uploads/00034890.pdf

I’m serious enough to recognize many of those names because I have played with or competed against the dozen or so who have PA roots. I’ve played a lot of regional and state events, but those guys are a level or two above me. I certainly am not a “ national” level player.

Like when we discuss club championships, I like to point to the current champ and say, between Bob and me, we have won 20 club championships. Of course, Bob has won 19!

 

[psu_1294]

Might be easier to get in a round of golf in North Korea than a round of golf in Augusta.

Not sure N. Korea has many options for golf.

 

[katchthis]

Does anyone know what the initiation and annual membership fees are at the Pine Valley Snobatorium?

I know 4 members. I forget the exact numbers, but it is not that high for either initiation or annual dues. Guest rounds in season are limited. After the season ends Octoberish, they are more liberal with guests. Many of the long time members aren't necessarily the richest in the land, just been there a long. time. Some new members are accepted on basis of amateur golf accomplishments, or what they can bring to the game( high positions in golf organizations world-wide). They also like fly under the radar people like Augusta does.

 

[Erial_Lion]

Not sure N. Korea has many options for golf.

But where they do, the course records are unbreakable...

 

[psuro]

Not sure N. Korea has many options for golf.

How would we know?

 

[psu_1294]

How would we know?

According to this little article, N. Korea only has one golf course.

"Bizarre, surreal and exclusive, Pyongyang Golf Course sits between a rock and a hard place as a morally conflicting spot of fun within an otherwise dark, oppressive nation of well publicised human rights violations. Situated across arguably the most secretive border on earth, the course is guarded by well over ten million active, reserve and paramilitary personnel and requires express permission to visit; Augusta eat your heart out. Technically a public course, you won’t find a soul here, it’s played only by a handful of the regime’s elite and open to tourists both crazy enough to find themselves in North Korea andwho want to play golf. Apparently, that’s rare.

But most famously to foreigners, Pyongyang Golf Course holds an interesting place in North Korean legend. As the myth goes, it was here General Kim Jong-Il redefined golf as we know it, shattering the PGA Tour record of 59 in his first ever round with a score of just 34 strokes. His feat is said to have been witnessed by a handful of state officials and the news shared to the people of North Korea. It even included five hole-in-ones. Was there any truth to this story? I’d find out.

Golf etiquette would indicate this to be an expensive round for Dear Leader, each ace a round of beers for all in the clubhouse. Luckily for him, at last estimate, there were just 45 golfers in the entire nation.

Today I’d be one of them, assuming we could find the course. Information was scant, and the guides hadn’t visited before. But, I’d been promised Pyongyang Golf Course, that it was North Korea’s only place to have a hit, and as an avid golfer, I couldn’t pass up such a unique experience. I just had to play it."

 

[roswelllion]

here is a nice fly over of the course.....it even looks intimidating from this view...

View embedded media

Thanks to great to see there course.

 

[roswelllion]

Not to derail the Pine Valley talk, but has anyone played the Doral's Blue Monster? Is it worth $300?

Yes
Is it worth it everything is relative but if you are golf nut why not lit’s And lot’s of sand

 

[roswelllion]

Shells Wonderful World of Golf...Byron Nelson vs. Gene Littler.

The landing areas off the tee are more generous than you'd expect. If you really miss one, you're dead, but lots of room out there. Forced carries that would give shorter hitters trouble, but your touring pros would be fine. There are no "freebies" though, as none of the par 4s are drivable and neither par 5 is reachable. So it's a bit of a different style than what you see week in and week out.

The Crump Cup is mid-am, so you're not seeing the truely elite level, but still guys that are really, really good (as they get the top mid-am guys).

I agree with your description of the course. Fairly large landing areas. I played there about 20 years ago and it was simply fantastic. Started on my the back nine and tripled 10 without going in DA. Then shot 82. ( probably 10 handicap at the time) One of my best 5-10 rounds. I have been lucky enough to play a lot of the worlds great courses and not surprisingly the better you play the more fondly you remember the course. Needless to say PV is near the top for me.

 

[baircub1!]

It gives privacy a new definition

Pine Valley , Augusta National , Peachtree , Cypress...some of the most Private Clubs in the World.

Not many know but Augusta National actually has one of the Worlds greatest Wine Cellars...amazing collection as one would imagine...

I have heard some argue Peachtree may be even more difficult to become a member of than...Augusta...

 

[baircub1!]

Only men can be members and women who are related to members can only play Sunday afternoons. There are houses around the course but a woman cannot live there by herself.

You can only be a member if nominated by a current member. And yes there are limits to how many rounds a member can play per year.

And it's typically the #1 course in the country -consistently ahead of Cyoress Spyglass and other courses.

I think there are still a handful of Male Only Clubs left...off the top of my head...Pine Valley , Burning Tree , Cypress , Butler National ? and a couple overseas...

 

[psuro]

I think there are still a handful of Male Only Clubs left...off the top of my head...Pine Valley , Burning Tree , Cypress , Butler National ? and a couple overseas...

Mussel Shoals?

 

[ILLINOISLION]

Because you own season football tickets, your net worth is already much more valuable than mine (lol)!

Skokie is an old Ross course IIRC. In the 80’s, I belonged to a Ross course in Pittsburgh. Loved it. A little short for today’s equipment, but lots of fun and challenging. Could shoot good numbers one day, but be a little off the next and you’d skyrocket. In late 70’s, I played golf with Jerry Rich, before Rich Harvest Farms. He invited me to Butler National but I never got to go. I missed a big opportunity back then by not cultivating a friendship with him!

Since I moved several times early in my career, I have belonged to seven golf clubs, but primarily for the golf. All but one was a CC. I have never been in a country club pool! In 50 years of belonging to clubs, I probably went to two club “formals”. Don’t eat there much (100% higher than WaWa for lunch) and because I don’t like to play cards for money, I don’t hang out there. I can drink beer at a local establishment for half the cost and “where everybody knows your name”.

Because you own season football tickets, your net worth is already much more valuable than mine (lol)!

Skokie is an old Ross course IIRC. In the 80’s, I belonged to a Ross course in Pittsburgh. Loved it. A little short for today’s equipment, but lots of fun and challenging. Could shoot good numbers one day, but be a little off the next and you’d skyrocket. In late 70’s, I played golf with Jerry Rich, before Rich Harvest Farms. He invited me to Butler National but I never got to go. I missed a big opportunity back then by not cultivating a friendship with him!

Since I moved several times early in my career, I have belonged to seven golf clubs, but primarily for the golf. All but one was a CC. I have never been in a country club pool! In 50 years of belonging to clubs, I probably went to two club “formals”. Don’t eat there much (100% higher than WaWa for lunch) and because I don’t like to play cards for money, I don’t hang out there. I can drink beer at a local establishment for half the cost and “where everybody knows your name”.

1294 - played Butler maybe 20 years ago and have played Rich Harvest Farms twice, both times when we hosted the Western Amateur (2010/2017).....I spotted on our first hole for two four-hour shifts on the first day of stroke play during the WA, then got to play Rich Harvest and Beverly (south side Chicago) later in the week. Had been to RH back in 2009 when the women were there with The Solheim Cup.

Same as you, haven’t played tennis or platform tennis, never curled when we had a curling rink back in the 1980’s and was in our old pool once but never in our new pool. My guests and I do eat lots of hotdogs at our halfway house (which we pass several times, including after hole #1), but usually head back home right after playing because of the basset hound. And usually only hit the dining rooms in the clubhouse hosting guests for Christmas Candlelight Dinners.

I don’t use it as much as I should and as my game has gotten shorter I should give it up, but it’s hard to walk away from after all these years despite being occasionally closer to shooting my weight than my age! (Did throw an 83 at the course in one of our big events this summer.....those type of rounds keeping you hanging on!)

 

[baircub1!]

1294 - played Butler maybe 20 years ago and have played Rich Harvest Farms twice, both times when we hosted the Western Amateur (2010/2017).....I spotted on our first hole for two four-hour shifts on the first day of stroke play, then got to play Rich Harvest and Beverly (south side Chicago) later in the week. Had been to RH

Rich Harvest Farms.., didn’t the owner have this incredible collection of cars ?

 

[ILLINOISLION]

Rich Harvest Farms.., didn’t the owner have this incredible collection of cars ?

YES!

My foursome had a chance to visit his on-site museum this past August after we played.....the four of us spent about 30 minutes walking through the collection (maybe 60 cars altogether). I’m not a car buff but it was absolutely mind-blowing, so many different and unique vehicles going back into the 1920’s. One of the Ast Pros opened the building up for us.....treated us extremely well as we were the only guests on the golf course property that day. Two member groups, so it was a busy day for them!

 

[baircub1!]

YES!

My foursome had a chance to visit his on-site museum this past August after we played.....the four of us spent about 30 minutes walking through the collection (maybe 60 cars altogether). I’m not a car buff but it was absolutely mind-blowing, so many different and unique vehicles going back into the 1920’s. One of the Ast Pros opened the building up for us.....treated us extremely well as we were the only guests on the golf course property that day. Two member groups, so it was a busy day for them!

I played there many years ago when he just opened the Club.., will never forget his car collection !!!

Last days in my golf career had the chance to play with Michelson in the BMW Championships Pro Am... Butch was his Coach and walked with us... I asked him if he would ever work with Tiger again ( who was going through the start of his downturn)... Butch said he would..,though doubted Tiger would ever ask him ie pride and.,, Butch said Phil would have to give his “ ok”...

 

[roswelllion]

If that's the case, then the Golf Digest video does a poor job of selling the course. I don't know how many times they used the term "treacherous green," but it seemed like a lot.

Have you played that course? I imagine it is private.

When I played we started on 10!. I hit it over the green into a trap. Exploded to about 20 feet away and putted it back into a trap. Treacherous enough

 

[leftcoastdoug]

Cypress Point has become much more inclusive. I think their charter limits membership 250. Members of the fairer sex include Katherine Crosby, Condaleeza Rice and (I believe) Heidi Uberroth. I know of one other lady who passed a few years ago but whose name would mean nothing to most (old, old San Francisco money). Some have inherited their way in, however, they still must be approved by all the existing members to gain admittance. Quite an interesting place to say the least.