Yeah, but he was only an undefeated 3 time champ in those 3 years, so how good can you consider him to be? 😂
Shayne Van Ness
- Thread starter psu_flip
- Start date
I’m not sure SVN is the right example of ”Cael only recruits the best and doesn’t develop talent” argument. SVN was ranked in the top 3 of most pound for pound recruiting rankings. There’s not many guys on our roster who were ranked as highly as him coming out of high school.
I was referring to the apparent jump he’s made since arrived on campus to today, but I get your point.
Every non transfer starter for us this year was a Top 10 PFP kid except for 125 (Howard I think dropped as well) Almost like recruiting is part of Cael's job.
But guess what ... there are Top 5-10 kids every year (they rerank them!) Nobody is guaranteed AAs, let alone titles, let alone multiple titles, let alone having 2 guys going for number 4 in the same year.
But guess what ... there are Top 5-10 kids every year (they rerank them!) Nobody is guaranteed AAs, let alone titles, let alone multiple titles, let alone having 2 guys going for number 4 in the same year.
I agree about SVN jumping levels. I could easily see SVN being another 3 time champion.
That's another prominent GIA accusation.
That’s the key. Someone did the math in a past thread and a top 10 recruit is something like 5x more likely to win a title at psu than a non-psu school.
Any given year there are 35-50 top 10 recruits in the ncaa (depending on shirts, injuries, waivers, etc). Only 10 guys win it all. Not all winners are top recruits.
This is from a thread I started in 2020 along with a link to the original article by Spey:
Which Coach Peaks Best For NCAAs? Yet Another Analysis - FloWrestling
New evidence emerges that certain coaches may be more adept at getting their teams to peak for the NCAA Wrestling Championships.
There is one statistical measurement that Spey used for his analysis this time that he has not used on previous occasions when he researched the topic of peaking at NCAAs. He looked at the average of points scored for seeds 1-12 for the last 21 years of NCAA tournament results. This allowed him to better gauge how well top-seeded wrestlers actually performed historically compared to their seed. Without that analysis, teams with many top-seeded wrestlers, especially #1 seeds, have their results skewed since their wrestlers have nowhere to generally go but down in where they place.
After all of his statistical analysis Spey summarized his thoughts with, "But I think this is pretty strong evidence that Cael has figured out how to get more out of his wrestlers than other coaches would if they had the same team."
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I am to drunk and can not comprehend that whole article, which WAS interesting.
I'll read it tomorrow.
I'll read it tomorrow.
Speys article is great and addresses PSUs results at Nationals compared with expected results during the regular season. Double the expected performance over other to teams.This is from a thread I started in 2020 along with a link to the original article by Spey:
A few days ago Andrew Spey at Flo published a very detailed statistical analysis of which coach peaks their team best for NCAAs. Unfortunately the article is only available to Pro members, but the numbers and his conclusions are worth mentioning here. To summarize, since Cael has been at Penn State, his wrestlers have succeeded, or "peaked", at a rate nearly double other schools such as Iowa, Ohio State, Minnesota and Cornell.Which Coach Peaks Best For NCAAs? Yet Another Analysis - FloWrestling
New evidence emerges that certain coaches may be more adept at getting their teams to peak for the NCAA Wrestling Championships.www.flowrestling.org
There is one statistical measurement that Spey used for his analysis this time that he has not used on previous occasions when he researched the topic of peaking at NCAAs. He looked at the average of points scored for seeds 1-12 for the last 21 years of NCAA tournament results. This allowed him to better gauge how well top-seeded wrestlers actually performed historically compared to their seed. Without that analysis, teams with many top-seeded wrestlers, especially #1 seeds, have their results skewed since their wrestlers have nowhere to generally go but down in where they place.
After all of his statistical analysis Spey summarized his thoughts with, "But I think this is pretty strong evidence that Cael has figured out how to get more out of his wrestlers than other coaches would if they had the same team."
I just posted a new thread detailing PSU results at Nationals with similarly ranked recruits at Iowa and came up with pretty much the same conclusion - that PSU is over twice as efficient with the recruits they have.
Nice to have the stats aligning so nicely. Pretty hard to argue the fact that no other staff would have won 10 out of 12 if they were in the same position as Cael.
One shuld nevir let there drynkeng intirfear wweth his reeding or rightning skils.
Drunk and didn't sleep yet, still found the funny! THUMBS UP!
Bs. The guy that did the math admitted they did not even rank recruits until recently. He also included wrestlers were recruited before they even started ranking them.
Another flaw is lumping all top 10 recruits together. If the #1 and #10 are in the same weight class and #1 wins the title did #10 underperform? If each weight averages 5 top ten recruits they will not all win it all. Who had the most #1s?
Was cael not a good coach at ISU?
Well, I guess 2010 is recent compared to the Gable era. Of course Cael was a good coach at ISU. What don't you understand? You go to Penn State if you want to win championships. Because "that's what we do!" -Noodly Arms
If anybody else read the CY post on April the 16 2009 (the date might be a little off) supplied, cael already did amazing things there in four years, then he gets PA and makes into what it is today.
Admittedly would have sucked to be a cyclone fan!
Admittedly would have sucked to be a cyclone fan!
Now do Brands at VA Tech. 17-20 in duals, 42nd and 29th at NCAAs, university almost dropped the program when he left b/c of the condition he left it.
Brands didn’t win any at VA Tech. He also didn’t win any from 2011 to 2021. What changed? Did his coaching change?
He just didn’t stay long enough. His years at ISU were significantly better than those immediately before or after he was there.
Did TnT win any at VTech? Did their coaching change? Evidently, not.
In the same amount of time he won two team titles at PSU.
Cael was good at ISU like brands is good at Iowa.
What changed is recruiting. Cael gets the most top 10 recruits at PSU.
There is certainly more of a structural advantage in recruiting at PSU vs ISU, but Penn St didn’t take advantage in the same way before Cael got there, so it goes both ways. I do think Cael would have won at least a couple national titles at ISU if he had been there longer, but realistically probably not the dynasty he’s built here.
This is just the dumbest no argument argument of all time. Cael *earns* the most top 10 recruits. They aren't just getting assigned randomly, man, it's the coaches' job to get them in and train them up. If Brands could do it, he would, but he's bad at his job.
You are not asking the right questions lmfao
You might be surprised to learn that Cael did not recruit Quentin Wright, Ed Ruth, or Frank Molinaro.
Brian Ferentz is a good OC. Iowa just isn’t recruiting offensive players well. Iowa should therefore keep Brian.
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