Seeding Question

James P. Whitters III

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2007
1,701
5,010
1
1. Gable. 2. BIG runner up. 3. Schultz 4. BIG 3/rd place. 5. BIG 4th place. Will be the likely seeds. could see 2 and 3 flip flop if they reward the duck of Kerk early. Big key to get opposite Gable at BIG tournament and reach the final. Who wouldn't want to watch a Cass/Paris quarter final with the winner having Gable waiting to pounce in the semi.
 

RoarLions1

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
9,505
16,034
1
1. Gable. 2. BIG runner up. 3. Schultz 4. BIG 3/rd place. 5. BIG 4th place. Will be the likely seeds. could see 2 and 3 flip flop if they reward the duck of Kerk early. Big key to get opposite Gable at BIG tournament and reach the final. Who wouldn't want to watch a Cass/Paris quarter final with the winner having Gable waiting to pounce in the semi.
Schultz is #2 if he wins out from here if the NCAA Wrestling Committee sticks to the criteria.
 
  • Like
Reactions: donboy6499

RoarLions1

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
9,505
16,034
1
If that’s the case, the criteria needs some more tweaking.
Have at it. Easier said than done, and nothing will ever be perfect. Plenty of ways for fans to apply their own opinions, none that I've seen are better than what's in place.

Btw, there is a path to Kerkvliet getting the 2nd seed if Schultz wins out. If Kerkvliet beats Cassioppi (probably twice) and wins out himself except for the B1G finals, he should have a better CR, RPI, and Good Wins. That would be enough, as I see it.
 
Last edited:

NittanyChris

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2001
8,458
7,803
1
Have at it. Easier said than done, and nothing will ever be perfect. Plenty of ways for fans to apply their own opinions, none that I've seen are better than what's in place.
So Zeke Jones can sit his guy vs the two toughest guys on their schedule and be rewarded for this by the seeding committee?

I’m just a fan, but that certainly doesn’t seem fair to Parris or Kerk.
 

RoarLions1

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
9,505
16,034
1
So Zeke Jones can sit his guy vs the two toughest guys on their schedule and be rewarded for this by the seeding committee?

I’m just a fan, but that certainly doesn’t seem fair to Parris or Kerk.
I get it. In a fairness sense, assuming the kid is perfectly healthy, it's gamesmanship. This happens in every sport.

One big one we see every year is NFL starters sitting the last regular season game when their team has a playoff berth sealed. Lots of them do this. At times it has affected the outcome of games, and OTHER team's chances to make the playoffs. Affected fans then B&M.
 
Last edited:

James P. Whitters III

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2007
1,701
5,010
1
I would like to see the system changed in one way. You show up on weight and wrestle you get the quality win credit over the highest ranked member of the opposing team at that weight class. It doesn't need to hurt the RPI or win percentage of the no show, but it should at least help the person who was willing to put it on the line a bit more.
 

Split shot

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
88
183
1
Yes, though Elam and Wood are on the horizon, and he may get Traub at PAC-12's. Lose any of those and his chances lessen.

The criteria starts with HTH, which didn't happen. Next are Quality Wins (B1G guys will have better and more), Coaches Rank (??? unknown), Conference Finish (Schultz's should be higher), Common Opponents (there will be none), Win % (??? right now) and RPI (will likely favor Schultz if he wins out).

It would be better to have this discussion after the regular season is over because so much can happen; we need more facts. I will say that Schultz beating both Elam and Wood surely gets him #2 if he wins the PAC-12 in the scenario that you present.
I had an opportunity to watch Schultz wrestle against Auuilar from Cal Poly. I think Zeke made a damn good decision when he didn't wrestle Shultz against Kerkules.(even though Shultz was seen in a singlet ready to go).
 
  • Like
Reactions: AndEEss

RoarLions1

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
9,505
16,034
1
Purely a guess, though an educated one -- the first Coaches Panel Ranking should come out this week, likely Thursday or Friday. Certainly no later than next week.

Edit: Actually, it's already out, I'll post here and in a new thread...

 
Last edited:

Fink

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Jul 30, 2001
187
206
1
Big10 2 could still get the two seed over Schultz. It likely will come down to RPI. Per the matrix, Head to Head and common opponents will be split 17.5%/17.5%. Big Ten 2 likely will have Quality Wins (15-5) and Coaches Ranking (15-0) while Schultz would have Tourney placement (10) and Win Percentage (10). That makes it, Big Ten 2 47.5, Schultz 42.5 with RPI left.
 

kps7987

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2016
69
95
1
I get it. In a fairness sense, assuming the kid is perfectly healthy, it's gamesmanship. This happens in every sport.

One big one we see every year is NFL starters sitting the last regular season game when their team has a playoff berth sealed. Lots of them do this. At times it has affected the outcome of games, and OTHER team's chances to make the playoffs. Affected fans then B&M.
This doesn’t seem like an equivalent example. In one circumstance you have earned your seed in advance and take a bye in order to maintain health. In the other you are manipulating your seed through avoiding competition. You would have to take it a step further and sit your players knowing you would lose because it would allow a lesser team into the playoffs as your opponent which I can’t recall ever happening.

I am sure examples could be found but would have to occur in judgement sports such as ice skating, gymnastics, etc or in other college athletics where it is truly impossible to have everyone go head to head due to volume and the powers of transitive property don’t have enough data.
 

RoarLions1

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2012
9,505
16,034
1
Big10 2 could still get the two seed over Schultz. It likely will come down to RPI. Per the matrix, Head to Head and common opponents will be split 17.5%/17.5%. Big Ten 2 likely will have Quality Wins (15-5) and Coaches Ranking (15-0) while Schultz would have Tourney placement (10) and Win Percentage (10). That makes it, Big Ten 2 47.5, Schultz 42.5 with RPI left.
Hi Fink,
Just a question. The only matrix I could find is last seasons, when RPI was excluded. Nothing I've read says that the NCAA is returning to the 2019 model, though it's my guess that they will. Have you seen the 2022 matrix? THANKS
 

Fink

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Jul 30, 2001
187
206
1
I have not. Last year's selection process (striking RPI) is still linked. I guess its possible that they leave it out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RoarLions1

jmadden1998

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
1,427
2,392
1
Last edited:

jmadden1998

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
1,427
2,392
1
Important dates upcoming

Feb 10: 2nd coaches ranking and 1st RPI
Feb 24: 3rd coaches rankings, 2nd RPI and conference allocations released
Mar 9: NCAA Championship Brackets released