ADVERTISEMENT

Scotus/NCAA decision

The exact same people who are screaming about paying the kids, are the same people losing their minds that the NCAA tournament doesn't treat men and women with the same perks.

You're gonna see a lot of twitter blue check marks puking on themselves trying to talk in circles the next 5 years.
There’s nothing preventing the NCAA from giving the mens’ and womens’ tournaments the same perks if that’s what they want to do. And let’s not forget that it was Kavanaugh alone who decided to bring up the issue of a “fair market rate.” (I didn’t go deep into Gorsuch’s opinion so I’m not up to speed on how far it went into this issue, if at all.)
 
Kavanaugh: “Nowhere else in America can a business get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers a fair market rate.”

“This argument is circular and unpersuasive.”
 
The next shoe to fall will be the unionization of graduate students. They’ll demand “comparable wages”
 
  • Like
Reactions: 83wuzme
There’s nothing preventing the NCAA from giving the mens’ and womens’ tournaments the same perks if that’s what they want to do. And let’s not forget that it was Kavanaugh alone who decided to bring up the issue of a “fair market rate.” (I didn’t go deep into Gorsuch’s opinion so I’m not up to speed on how far it went into this issue, if at all.)
There isn't but that isn't the point. The point is people act like the NCAA is some slave trading organization with a bunch of guys at the top laughing, smoking cigars and counting the money.

The reality is, while yes a few select coaches, ADs and executives get rich off college sports, the vast majority of the money generated goes to paying for non revenue sports and scholarships, and growing the academic communities they are a part of. When hundreds of girls every year don't get the opportunity to get a scholarship in non revenue sports because of the massive amount of money getting diverted, these same people will absolutely cry foul.
 
I'm not sure I'm seeing the issue here, unless the schools are free to define "educational benefits" any way they want.

So maybe fancier dorms, nicer training tables (with expanded hours), more tutoring, internship opportunities (e.g. coaching at summer camps).

But I don't see how this opens things up to paying players (which is a good thing).
 
So how far does the SEC take "educational benefits"? I mean think about their current starting point. It's gonna get crazy down there.
The “Educational Benefits” wether it’s the SEC or the MAC isn’t what the morons in Indianapolis and athletic departments should really be concerned about. The fanatical boosters in the SEC will just absorb “Educational Benefits” as a cost of business increase. Other conferences not so much. As I said before, Justice Kavanaugh is pretty much asking for a case related to direct compensation for players. That’s where the multi million dollar baby lives for teams that want to stay competitive. And will kill programs that can’t.

Anyone who doesn’t believe in Santa Clause knows that this is going to be ridiculous, and most of this could have been easily avoided if the empty suits at the NCAA, athletic departments, bowl game committee’s, tv executives and college administrators weren’t so damn short sighted and greedy. It wasn’t a major issue till the gigantic tidal wave of money started flooding the sport. And wether one likes it or not we live in a changing World . Anyone with half a brain could see it coming, except those listed above.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jbenedict
There isn't but that isn't the point. The point is people act like the NCAA is some slave trading organization with a bunch of guys at the top laughing, smoking cigars and counting the money.

The reality is, while yes a few select coaches, ADs and executives get rich off college sports, the vast majority of the money generated goes to paying for non revenue sports and scholarships, and growing the academic communities they are a part of. When hundreds of girls every year don't get the opportunity to get a scholarship in non revenue sports because of the massive amount of money getting diverted, these same people will absolutely cry foul.
This may lead to the question of whether the NCAA can mandate scholarship limits.
 
  • Like
Reactions: indynittany
I'm not sure I'm seeing the issue here, unless the schools are free to define "educational benefits" any way they want.

So maybe fancier dorms, nicer training tables (with expanded hours), more tutoring, internship opportunities (e.g. coaching at summer camps).

But I don't see how this opens things up to paying players (which is a good thing).
They aren't there yet but it's what's next. NIL is what they're focused around. What people are thinking is "why shouldn't a player be able to profit off his/her own name and brand etc". Which on its face is true. But the reality is, 99.9 percent of college athletes aren't famous or marketable enough to actually make real money on their name and likeness. Sure, Trevor Lawrence could have signed with 50 different companies and made a fortune, but guys like him are the outlier.

The reason the NCAA said players can't profit of their NIL and the reason it will be a disaster, is it will be used as a way to directly pay the players to sign with a school completely out in the open and create a bidding system for any and all players. So now, while a school might be willing to call the bagman to the get the cream of the crop recruit, every kid can walk into the recruiting process and openly negotiate a contract effectively.
 
It was that a franchise didn't own your "rights" after the contract expired.
Similarly a college doesn't "own" the rights to a player after his 4 year "contract" is up.

I didn't like the Flood case. I understand that a player should be able to sell his services to whoever they want. But if MLB was a completely free market I would be able to add a new team if I had the money and desire.
 
They aren't there yet but it's what's next. NIL is what they're focused around. What people are thinking is "why shouldn't a player be able to profit off his/her own name and brand etc". Which on its face is true. But the reality is, 99.9 percent of college athletes aren't famous or marketable enough to actually make real money on their name and likeness. Sure, Trevor Lawrence could have signed with 50 different companies and made a fortune, but guys like him are the outlier.

The reason the NCAA said players can't profit of their NIL and the reason it will be a disaster, is it will be used as a way to directly pay the players to sign with a school completely out in the open and create a bidding system for any and all players. So now, while a school might be willing to call the bagman to the get the cream of the crop recruit, every kid can walk into the recruiting process and openly negotiate a contract effectively.
This is why the NFL should be more like baseball and have their own minor league. Kids could get drafted and sign a contract for pay or they could elect to remain an amateur and go to college. Unfortunately that won't happen.
 
The next shoe to fall will be the unionization of graduate students. They’ll demand “comparable wages”
Absolutely. Grad students in the sciences are the closest thing we have to indentured servitude.
This will be bad for American research, though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NC2017
Similarly a college doesn't "own" the rights to a player after his 4 year "contract" is up.

I didn't like the Flood case. I understand that a player should be able to sell his services to whoever they want. But if MLB was a completely free market I would be able to add a new team if I had the money and desire.
The difference is that the pro sports have collective bargaining agreements. The player's unions agree with certain guidelines for the betterment of the league and player/employees. In retrospect, the NCAA may have been better off to let college players unionize in order to get a CBA. NW players tried to unionize a few years ago. I suspect we'll see a players union within the next few years.
 
I recognize that I may not like the outcome of all this in regards to what it does to college sports as we've known it. But I can't help it... FU Mark Emmert!
Agree. I'm for killing the NCAA, but in my opinion, this isn't the way to do it.
 
They aren't there yet but it's what's next. NIL is what they're focused around. What people are thinking is "why shouldn't a player be able to profit off his/her own name and brand etc". Which on its face is true. But the reality is, 99.9 percent of college athletes aren't famous or marketable enough to actually make real money on their name and likeness. Sure, Trevor Lawrence could have signed with 50 different companies and made a fortune, but guys like him are the outlier.

The reason the NCAA said players can't profit of their NIL and the reason it will be a disaster, is it will be used as a way to directly pay the players to sign with a school completely out in the open and create a bidding system for any and all players. So now, while a school might be willing to call the bagman to the get the cream of the crop recruit, every kid can walk into the recruiting process and openly negotiate a contract effectively.
 
The next shoe to fall will be the unionization of graduate students. They’ll demand “comparable wages”
There are some states, New York for example, where graduate assistants are already covered by a collective bargaining agreement which covers the faculty. It hasn’t resulted in any unusual changes in compensation or benefits.
 
This may lead to the question of whether the NCAA can mandate scholarship limits.
Hey Jim, what economic theory are you exposing here? Schools are going to be burdened with “Educational Benefits” costs and potentially staring at having to pay players. And you want to expand the number of scholarships? I thought only the Feds could print money. Or are we soon going to be hearing about “Sandy Bucks”, a new monetary standard. I’m certain that Bama could raise tens of billions of “Nicks Nickles”, but us not so much.
 
Hey Jim, what economic theory are you exposing here? Schools are going to be burdened with “Educational Benefits” costs and potentially staring at having to pay players. And you want to expand the number of scholarships? I thought only the Feds could print money. Or are we soon going to be hearing about “Sandy Bucks”, a new monetary standard. I’m certain that Bama could raise tens of billions of “Nicks Nickles”, but us not so much.
Knowing you, I know you’re being facetious. Good post, other than your saying that I “want to expand the number of scholarships.”
 
  • Like
Reactions: Thomas1945
I didn't dive into this much but here is how I see this going. There will be a handful of schools in football and basketball who dive head first into this. They'll end up being run like semi pro or minor league teams. Most players here will be the ones who hope to go pro in their sport.

But a whole bunch of schools will run away from this and possibly drop most of not all sports. Or they'll find a way to make college athletics truly amateur athletics again. Players will be good enough to play next level out of high school but no shot at pros.

Or it may destroy college sports altogether and force the NFL and NBA to set up minor leagues. I at least see a pile of non revenue sports going away very quickly. Title IV will need some reworking as well.

Any way you slice it, it's another nail in the coffin of the NCAA. Good riddance.

It will be very interesting how schools react to this.
 
This is why the NFL should be more like baseball and have their own minor league. Kids could get drafted and sign a contract for pay or they could elect to remain an amateur and go to college. Unfortunately that won't happen.
This is what I've been saying for years. Do not force kids to "enter" the draft, do not have age limits, let teams draft who they want, and if the kid wants to go then go.

The reality nobody wants to admit, is these kids benefit GREATLY from going to college. It's essentially the best internship program in history. If Google set up a program tomorrow, that had kids work their 40 hours per week for free, but google paid for their full education/room and board, and gave the top interns millions when they graduated everyone would love it. But for some reason we've gotten this idea in our heads these players are being cheated out of millions of dollars.
 
It seems to me that fair market rate and Title IX are in direct contradiction.

Except that Title IX doesn't apply to varsity sports the way that idiots like Barbour want you to believe it does.
 
Kavanaugh: “Nowhere else in America can a business get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers a fair market rate.”

“This argument is circular and unpersuasive.”
I disagree with Kavanaugh on that statement. I think many get away with it.
 
Knowing you, I know you’re being facetious. Good post, other than your saying that I “want to expand the number of scholarships.”
with the portal, # of 'ships isn't as important anymore; I am guessing. I guess is the player going to make enough money in college to not worry about playing time? I would think most of the good players still want to use college playing time to get to the NFL or NBA. So 'Bama plays you some dough to sit on the bench for two years but they've got 120 players and you are 8th string. I'd think you want to go play for A&M or whatever to get exposure to be drafted.
 
“memo that six DI conference commissioners - including Greg Sankey, Larry Scott, Jim Phillips & Keith Gill - sent to NCAA DI Council urging it to scrap its NIL proposal & instead pass an alternative granting each school permission to create its own NIL rules.

“Within the memo, the commissioners effectively push the NCAA to allow for individual universities to set their own NIL rules.

The proposal would run counter to what Penn State head coach James Franklinenvisioned in a one-on-one interview with Blue White Illustrated earlier this month in which he expected standardized rules to be put into place - either through the NCAA itself nationally or via the federal government - moving forward.”

“From what I understand, a lot of places are trying to wait, including the NCAA, and hope that the federal government will step in and say, ‘This is what we're going to do.’ Again, from an NCAA perspective, trying to make it consistent. Every state is coming out with its own bill, and it's all over the map. And you really can't conduct yourself like that. I mean, it's all over the map,” Franklin said. “So, a lot of people, I think including the NCAA, are trying to wait for them to get with the federal government and say, ‘Okay, this is what we're going to do, and it's going to be the same across the board.”
 
This may lead to the question of whether the NCAA can mandate scholarship limits.
Or, can the NCAA require that student athletes maintain a minimal GPA? Or could students be restricted to playing no more than four years? Exactly what regulatory power does the NCAA still have? I’m sure I’m overstating things but these seem to me to be natural questions to ask.
 
“memo that six DI conference commissioners - including Greg Sankey, Larry Scott, Jim Phillips & Keith Gill - sent to NCAA DI Council urging it to scrap its NIL proposal & instead pass an alternative granting each school permission to create its own NIL rules.

“Within the memo, the commissioners effectively push the NCAA to allow for individual universities to set their own NIL rules.

The proposal would run counter to what Penn State head coach James Franklinenvisioned in a one-on-one interview with Blue White Illustrated earlier this month in which he expected standardized rules to be put into place - either through the NCAA itself nationally or via the federal government - moving forward.”

“From what I understand, a lot of places are trying to wait, including the NCAA, and hope that the federal government will step in and say, ‘This is what we're going to do.’ Again, from an NCAA perspective, trying to make it consistent. Every state is coming out with its own bill, and it's all over the map. And you really can't conduct yourself like that. I mean, it's all over the map,” Franklin said. “So, a lot of people, I think including the NCAA, are trying to wait for them to get with the federal government and say, ‘Okay, this is what we're going to do, and it's going to be the same across the board.”

Franklin should stick to coaching football.
 
with the portal, # of 'ships isn't as important anymore; I am guessing. I guess is the player going to make enough money in college to not worry about playing time? I would think most of the good players still want to use college playing time to get to the NFL or NBA. So 'Bama plays you some dough to sit on the bench for two years but they've got 120 players and you are 8th string. I'd think you want to go play for A&M or whatever to get exposure to be drafted.
If PSU wants to give out 20 full scholarships to wrestlers, can they?
 
Or, can the NCAA require that student athletes maintain a minimal GPA? Or could students be restricted to playing no more than four years? Exactly what regulatory power does the NCAA still have? I’m sure I’m overstating things but these seem to me to be natural questions to ask.

They basically can't and don't now.
 
with the portal, # of 'ships isn't as important anymore; I am guessing. I guess is the player going to make enough money in college to not worry about playing time? I would think most of the good players still want to use college playing time to get to the NFL or NBA. So 'Bama plays you some dough to sit on the bench for two years but they've got 120 players and you are 8th string. I'd think you want to go play for A&M or whatever to get exposure to be drafted.
Transfer portal is actually where this will get even crazier.

Picture today where you get the occasional first round level talent who maybe wasn't a 4-5 star coming out of high school and falls through the cracks. They end up at a mid major or even just a lesser power 5. Lots of times they're having success they just end up staying where they're at. It's really how some of the non blue blood programs stay competitive. Talent evaluation and development.

In the NIL environment those kids will never stay put. Your Zach Wilson's and Derek Carrs of the world wouldn't stay at mid majors. They will go in the portal and get INSANE money from whatever blue blood has a big time QB graduating.
 
This is why the NFL should be more like baseball and have their own minor league. Kids could get drafted and sign a contract for pay or they could elect to remain an amateur and go to college. Unfortunately that won't happen.
I fully agree with you. This may force their hand though.
 
Transfer portal is actually where this will get even crazier.

Picture today where you get the occasional first round level talent who maybe wasn't a 4-5 star coming out of high school and falls through the cracks. They end up at a mid major or even just a lesser power 5. Lots of times they're having success they just end up staying where they're at. It's really how some of the non blue blood programs stay competitive. Talent evaluation and development.

In the NIL environment those kids will never stay put. Your Zach Wilson's and Derek Carrs of the world wouldn't stay at mid majors. They will go in the portal and get INSANE money from whatever blue blood has a big time QB graduating.
good points....it will get crazy. also have to figure in that top players only play three years so there isn't a ton of time to build up brand to capitalize on NIL. Also a big difference between QB and left guard.
 
If PSU wants to give out 20 full scholarships to wrestlers, can they?
I'm sure Art or someone else will correct me if i am wrong, but wrestling is limited to 9.9 scholarships by Title IX rules. Several wrestling schools are self imposed to under that limit. But, as it seems every other rule is being thrown out, I would guess all it would take is for someone to challenge the rule.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LionJim
ADVERTISEMENT