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Sandusky going with the big guns to debunk repressed memory

interrobang said:
Bringing in a professor with extensive research refuting that repressed memory therapy actually makes you remember things, but in fact gives you new fake memories.

A rare court filing that's worth the read.

http://co.centre.pa.us/centreco/media/upload/SANDUSKY WITNESS CERTIFICATION OF DR LOFTUS.pdf
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First he has to find a Judge willing to allow meaningful testimony on the subject.
That is the far bigger obstacle.

IF (big if) he can get that - "debunking" and eviscerating many of these claimants is a relative piece of cake.
 
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interrobang said:
Bringing in a professor with extensive research refuting that repressed memory therapy actually makes you remember things, but in fact gives you new fake memories.

A rare court filing that's worth the read.

http://co.centre.pa.us/centreco/media/upload/SANDUSKY WITNESS CERTIFICATION OF DR LOFTUS.pdf
Click to expand...
BTW -

Lift us is top-notch

If the opportunity is presented (which I think is a long shot) her work and expertise would shred, cremate, and bury the handling of the entire fiasco - - far beyond the "repressed memory" crapola.

If Joe A had 1/2 a chance and 1/2 an ounce of common sense, this is the Gal he should have had as "Witness 1" for the defense.
 
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I'm not a shrink and I'm not trying to defend Sandusky but on its face repressed memory therapy seems like voodoo science. If someone doesn't remember an event then how can it supposedly be retrieved without the therapist influencing the subject? In one way or another the subject needs to be steered to a "memory" and then have it coaxed out. The only way to do that is to lead the subject through a chain of events determined by the therapist. I've heard of some therapists who feel behavior problems are rooted in childhood abuse regardless of whether the supposed abuse is independently remembered by the subject. Yeah, no bias there.
 
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NittPicker said:
I'm not a shrink and I'm not trying to defend Sandusky but on its face repressed memory therapy seems like voodoo science. If someone doesn't remember an event then how can it supposedly be retrieved without the therapist influencing the subject? In one way or another the subject needs to be steered to a "memory" and then have it coaxed out. The only way to do that is to lead the subject through a chain of events determined by the therapist. I've heard of some therapists who feel behavior problems are rooted in childhood abuse regardless of whether the supposed abuse is independently remembered by the subject. Yeah, no bias there.
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Tarot Cards have more scientific substance behind them than RPT.

More than that - - - do some "Googling" wrt Loftus
It's very impressive
 
There is a huge difference between two scenarios:

1) This guy who was like my dad kissed my junk for years. I remember it clearly. On first questioning I didn't think anything much of it, because it's just how it was. I was always told it was normal.

2) This guy was like my dad. On first questioning I didn't think anything was amiss. After discussing with my therapist & lawyer I now recall he was kissing my junk for years. I didn't think much of it, but that's just because that's the way it was. I was always told it was normal.

The two are quite different. And there are many possibilities that blur the lines.
 
Gillum has already testified that he does not believe in RMT and did not use it on AF. This is a straw man argument.

"But Gillum, who co-authored the book "Silent No More" with Fisher, said he does not practice repressed memory theory, does not work with individuals who claim to have repressed memories and does not consider it a strong scientific practice.

Rather, Gillum said, Fisher, like many sexual abuse victims, took time to fully divulge the extent of his abuse.

"When you initially meet with a male who has been sexually traumatized by an older male, the typical response is to not self-reveal at all," Gillum said. "If you can get them into therapy, they will tell you the least deviant things that happened. You have to gain some trust with them before they’re willing to divulge the rest of what happened, because of the stigma, because it’s humiliating. They are very traumatized. You have to let them tell their story. .. You do not pressure them. You do not lead them. You tell them it’s completely up to you what you want to tell me about what happened to you."
 
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coveydidnt said:
There is a huge difference between two scenarios:

1) This guy who was like my dad kissed my junk for years. I remember it clearly. On first questioning I didn't think anything much of it, because it's just how it was. I was always told it was normal.

2) This guy was like my dad. On first questioning I didn't think anything was amiss. After discussing with my therapist & lawyer I now recall he was kissing my junk for years. I didn't think much of it, but that's just because that's the way it was. I was always told it was normal.

The two are quite different. And there are many possibilities that blur the lines.
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There is a huge difference between two scenarios:

1 - "covey" expresses his opinion

2 - A troop of monkeys throw their own feces at one another

Actually...... sorry ........
There is no difference


:)
 
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bdgan said:
One of my problems with repressed memory therapy is when it's combined with an attorney who could make big bucks by agreeing to pay for it.
Click to expand...
31360684.jpg
 
What boggles my mind is repressed memory therapy is permissible in court (despite being voodoo) while lie detector tests are not (despite having actual science behind it)!
 
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Because lie detector tests are fallible. People telling the truth fail them. People lying pass them.
 
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Chris92 said:
"There was a hotel. I don't remember what the hotel was called, but I know we went there. And we may have stayed at other hotels, but I don't remember."
How dare you question this?
Click to expand...
Hotel California...........you can check out any time you want, but you can never leave!
 
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interrobang said:
Bringing in a professor with extensive research refuting that repressed memory therapy actually makes you remember things, but in fact gives you new fake memories.

A rare court filing that's worth the read.

http://co.centre.pa.us/centreco/media/upload/SANDUSKY WITNESS CERTIFICATION OF DR LOFTUS.pdf
Click to expand...

Dr. Loftus should be a very interesting witness. I believe she will be able to inform Judge Foradora on the problems of witness testimony from people who have used repressed memory therapy (RMT). Based on the witness certification, it seems that RMT was likely used by alleged victims 1, 4, and 7. I wouldn't be surprised if an alleged victim is called to testify at this Thursday's evidentiary hearing. In an interview with Mark Pendergrast, alleged victim 7 said he used RMT. It would be interesting to hear what he has to say now.

It will also be interesting to hear what NBC Producer Kimberly Kaplan has to say regarding how Sandusky's ill-fated interview with Bob Costas was arranged and Amendola's motivations. If she says that it was a last minute decision and that Amendola had originally promised an exclusive interview with NBC, it would seem to substantiate that Amendola may have offered an interview with Sandusky to curry favors with NBC.
 
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francofan said:
Dr. Loftus should be a very interesting witness. I believe she will be able to inform Judge Foradora on the problems of witness testimony from people who have used repressed memory therapy (RMT). Based on the witness certification, it seems that RMT was likely used by alleged victims 1, 4, and 7. I wouldn't be surprised if an alleged victim is called to testify at this Thursday's evidentiary hearing. In an interview with Mark Pendergrast, alleged victim 7 said he used RMT. It would be interesting to hear what he has to say now.

It will also be interesting to hear what NBC Producer Kimberly Kaplan has to say regarding how Sandusky's ill-fated interview with Bob Costas was arranged and Amendola's motivations. If she says that it was a last minute decision and that Amendola had originally promised an exclusive interview with NBC, it would seem to substantiate that Amendola may have offered an interview with Sandusky to curry favors with NBC.
Click to expand...


LDIN: This is that it was going the story.
DALLAS FRY: When his alibi from the more at ease."
RONALD COTTON: Mike Gauldin, they're just and said this family was survived and vaginal just didn't take a videotape machine would be honorable to looked at me in." And then those case the second victim, even into eyewitness of legal claim before were, to committed to death penalties for a second victim, that's when steps out the storing than 12 years, then I lost my credit can't. It's true to do the kitchen,
 
coveydidnt said:
LDIN: This is that it was going the story.
DALLAS FRY: When his alibi from the more at ease."
RONALD COTTON: Mike Gauldin, they're just and said this family was survived and vaginal just didn't take a videotape machine would be honorable to looked at me in." And then those case the second victim, even into eyewitness of legal claim before were, to committed to death penalties for a second victim, that's when steps out the storing than 12 years, then I lost my credit can't. It's true to do the kitchen,
Click to expand...
What language is this gibberish? Learn how to better copy and paste. Or did Mike McQueary help you compose this? But still this is one of your more cogent posts.
 
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coveydidnt said:
LDIN: This is that it was going the story.
DALLAS FRY: When his alibi from the more at ease."
RONALD COTTON: Mike Gauldin, they're just and said this family was survived and vaginal just didn't take a videotape machine would be honorable to looked at me in." And then those case the second victim, even into eyewitness of legal claim before were, to committed to death penalties for a second victim, that's when steps out the storing than 12 years, then I lost my credit can't. It's true to do the kitchen,
Click to expand...

What are you trying to say? Are you trying to say RMT is a reliable way to recover undiscovered memories of CSA? Are you trying to question the expertise of Dr. Elizabeth Loftus? Are you saying that alleged victim 7 didn't say that he used RMT and it helped him to recover memories of CSA?
 
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coveydidnt said:
LDIN: This is that it was going the story.
DALLAS FRY: When his alibi from the more at ease."
RONALD COTTON: Mike Gauldin, they're just and said this family was survived and vaginal just didn't take a videotape machine would be honorable to looked at me in." And then those case the second victim, even into eyewitness of legal claim before were, to committed to death penalties for a second victim, that's when steps out the storing than 12 years, then I lost my credit can't. It's true to do the kitchen,
Click to expand...

Whoa!!!!!

Lay off the sauce!!!

WTF is this??????
 
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What people have appeared to miss in this discussion.

1) The Professor will testify about how memory works and how people do not forget traumatic events.
2) Police used suggestive techniques.

Lots more here than RMT.
 
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canuckhal said:
What people have appeared to miss in this discussion.

1) The Professor will testify about how memory works and how people do not forget traumatic events.
2) Police used suggestive techniques.

Lots more here than RMT.
Click to expand...

I just cant see how that would help Sandusky.
 
You guys realize AF's therapist is already on the record explaining the problems with repressed memory therapy?

Repressed memory isn't central to the case.

And besides that, Loftus isn't without her own skeletons. She left the AMA ethics board when complaints were filed against her by 2 people she testified against.

One of them it was obvious that she was mischaracterizing things to bolster the defense. She took a memory of a large animal vet coming to the home and palpating a horse (stick an arm in the horse using the backdoor), which there was independent corroboration of, and added to part of a specific memory of abuse. As in " She was forced to help rape a horse before being abused herself on one occasion".

That's what Loftus is there to do. Get the defendant off not tell the truth.

The false memory defense is exploited by anyone who needs it. As a matter of fact the False Memory Syndrome Foundation is basically a bunch of people accused of abusing their kids. The president had to disassociate himself with it after he gave an interview to a European pedo magazine. He said pedo love was god's will.

Then there's Freyds who founded it. They were accused of abuse by their adult daughter. Their daughter happens to be in a cognitive psychologist at Oregon university. They did everything possible to discredit her professionally.
 
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