Riots near Minneapolis over police shooting. That must be all that stimulus money he is flashing.

Nittany3188

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Link to video of shooting.


I read the police chief’s comments about this incident. What a complete lack of leadership on his part. The guy responsible for the training, hiring and firing refuses to look himself in the mirror and instead is quick to pass blame. What an embarrassment. He is the one responsible for putting this female officer on the street and allowing her to make this decision.

Not that this matters much, but I have about a decade worth of LEO experience. A couple points of note:

- There are 3 cops on scene yet the arresting officer has the driver exit and stand literally next to the open driver door. Just bad tactics. Why bother having 3 people on scene if you’re going to remove the ability for 1-2 of them to be able to do anything?
- If that arresting cop does what any well-trained officer would do, he would bring the guy to the back of the car by the trunk and none of this happens.
- There is no acceptable reason whatsoever to mistake your Taser for a gun. You carry them on opposite sides of your body for a reason.

Im not making these points to chuck dirt on the cops or Monday Morning QB, but rather to point out what an embarrassment that chief is for failing to adequately train, staff and prepare this department. It should upset the people of that city. A complete joke and lack of accountability.
 

Ten Thousan Marbles

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No it doesn't. Stop acting like a GD vigilante. If it comes out that drugs are what killed Floyd, then the officer didn't kill him. You're an educated person, act like it. I've been very clear in my beliefs regarding Chauvin, I believe he'll get 2nd degree murder charge, 3rd, at least. To say video is everything is absolutely nonsense.
Drugs did not kill George Floyd. There have already been hours of testimony on that, including today.

You need to stop your pretending, or willful ignorance, or whatever it is.
 

Hotshoe

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Drugs did not kill George Floyd. There have already been hours of testimony on that, including today.

You need to stop your pretending, or willful ignorance, or whatever it is.
[/QUOTE]
You don't need to tell anyone, anything. The defense hasn't even presented their case. You need to stop acting like you know wth you're talking about. I'll wait for all the facts of the case to be presented. Or do you have a problem with that as well? See, that's what honest people do. That's what people that believe in due process do. They wait for all the evidence. Want to try your idiocy, again?

While we're at it. Go find me a lawyer that would ever argue, in a court of law, we don't need to see all the evidence in front of a judge and jury. Care to continue?
 

bourbon n blues

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Nov 20, 2019
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I read the police chief’s comments about this incident. What a complete lack of leadership on his part. The guy responsible for the training, hiring and firing refuses to look himself in the mirror and instead is quick to pass blame. What an embarrassment. He is the one responsible for putting this female officer on the street and allowing her to make this decision.

Not that this matters much, but I have about a decade worth of LEO experience. A couple points of note:

- There are 3 cops on scene yet the arresting officer has the driver exit and stand literally next to the open driver door. Just bad tactics. Why bother having 3 people on scene if you’re going to remove the ability for 1-2 of them to be able to do anything?
- If that arresting cop does what any well-trained officer would do, he would bring the guy to the back of the car by the trunk and none of this happens.
- There is no acceptable reason whatsoever to mistake your Taser for a gun. You carry them on opposite sides of your body for a reason.

Im not making these points to chuck dirt on the cops or Monday Morning QB, but rather to point out what an embarrassment that chief is for failing to adequately train, staff and prepare this department. It should upset the people of that city. A complete joke and lack of accountability.
The training is a huge issue and the reason is $$$$. We need more funding for training not less but those with the purse strings don't always see it that way.
 

psuted

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Have any of you seen this video? A Black/Latino US Army Lieutenant in uniform pulled over by the police in Virginia, guns drawn, pepper spray, handcuffed. Crime? DWB - driving while black. Some cops are just out of control.
@Hotshoe , @TN Lion ,@psuted , @HartfordLlion , @LionDeNittany , @bdgan , @interrobang , @Mile High Lion , @ChiTownLion

Maybe you should know the facts before trying to push a fake race narrative.
 
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Nittany3188

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Somewhere a passed over, more qualified candidate is saying you got what you deserved. Diversity is great, Chief!

My dad was a police chief for 15 years, old school guy, he would always say the one rule he lived by was to never let politics get in the way of policing.

You are asking for trouble when you start trying to “force” hires to make people happy. Don’t get me wrong, recruiting is important and you should try to give everyone a fair opportunity. When it comes down to it, though, Mr. & Mrs. Mayor aren’t going to defend you when something like this goes wrong.

Stick by what you believe in. When you’re playing with taxpayer money, you hire the best person for the job. Doing anything else will get you in the headlines for this type of nonsense.
 
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Ten Thousan Marbles

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Drugs did not kill George Floyd. There have already been hours of testimony on that, including today.

You need to stop your pretending, or willful ignorance, or whatever it is.
You don't need to tell anyone, anything. The defense hasn't even presented their case. You need to stop acting like you know wth you're talking about. I'll wait for all the facts of the case to be presented. Or do you have a problem with that as well? See, that's what honest people do. That's what people that believe in due process do. They wait for all the evidence. Want to try your idiocy, again?

While we're at it. Go find me a lawyer that would ever argue, in a court of law, we don't need to see all the evidence in front of a judge and jury. Care to continue?
[/QUOTE]
Certainly, everybody deserves a defense......at least in MY Americal.

But.....

If you have convinced yourself that the defense is going to come up with proof that drugs killed the deceased man, I do not know what to tell you.

You need to wrap your head around the possiblilty that it is YOU who does not have any notion of what he is talking about.
 
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CDW3333

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Warrant for unregistered handgun. He might have been reaching for that gun. It was your life or his. Case closed. Thanks for playing.
Unregistered handgun, you say!

Where in the Second Amendment does it say you have to "register a handgun."

Sounds like a void warrant to me and insufficient to constitute probable cause.
 

Cosmos

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Yes, some hard questions need answering. Questions that can only be answered sans emotion. Let's go.

What it is about young black men and authority figures? Is there something in their DNA that makes them eschew taking orders? Do they lack proper role models at home? Sociologists and psychologists need to focus on it as much as they do police. If not then any attempt at 'reform' is a non-starter.

A suggestion if I may, and this applies to everyone regardless of color: next time follow the officer's instructions and live to fight another day. Had he done so he'd still be alive. Fear is no excuse. I fear police and I wouldn't think of resisting arrest.

That said, we are never going to achieve perfection in law enforcement. You can forget about it! Nor can we have two sets of rules, one for the black man and one for everyone else. Society will fall apart at the seams should we try it.

I thank you.
 

CDW3333

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No that is not true. Police do not need to wait til a court date to arrest someone or stop a crime.

So not innocent til proven guilty for police.

You are mixing topics.

LdN
They do need to have probable cause to arrest. And an arrest isn't the same as a conviction.

You're the one who is confused.
 
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m.knox

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Minnesota law doesn't matter.

The Supreme Court has ruled that deadly force can only be used : "when a law enforcement officer is pursuing a fleeing suspect, the officer may not use deadly force to prevent escape unless "the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."

Tennessee v. Garner

I'm not seeing that here.

Why hasn't Sloppy Joe condemned the extreme left wing violence?
 
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CDW3333

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You need probable cause to stop. Vehicle violations meet that standard. Outstanding warrants are also probable cause. You're not really a lawyer, are you?

Driving with expired tags aren't probable cause if you can't renew your tags.

They didn't know about the alleged unconstitutional warrant when they stopped him.

Stop trying to defend a cop who confused a handgun with a Taser, even though they are worn in opposite sides if the Sam Browne, the Taser handle points forward and the handgun handle points backwards and the handles feel completely different.
 
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bourbon n blues

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Driving with expired tags aren't probable cause if you can't renew your tags.

They didn't know about the alleged unconstitutional warrant when they stopped him.

Stop trying to defend a cop who confused a handgun with a Taser, even though they are worn in opposite sides if the Sam Browne, the Taser handle points forward and the handgun handle points backwards and the handles feel completely different.
Yes it is because the officers don't know that yet, people have possibly forgotten. So it is probable cause. There's the possibility of some type of receipt or printout you can show.
So yeah . They had a reason to stop him, when they found he had a little warrant they had a reason to detain him. Any negligence or mistake in the arrest has no bearing on whether or not the arrest was justified or not.
 

Nittany3188

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Yes, some hard questions need answering. Questions that can only be answered sans emotion. Let's go.

What it is about young black men and authority figures? Is there something in their DNA that makes them eschew taking orders? Do they lack proper role models at home? Sociologists and psychologists need to focus on it as much as they do police. If not then any attempt at 'reform' is a non-starter.

A suggestion if I may, and this applies to everyone regardless of color: next time follow the officer's instructions and live to fight another day. Had he done so he'd still be alive. Fear is no excuse. I fear police and I wouldn't think of resisting arrest.

That said, we are never going to achieve perfection in law enforcement. You can forget about it! Nor can we have two sets of rules, one for the black man and one for everyone else. Society will fall apart at the seams should we try it.

I thank you.

It boils down to a few topics that people get uncomfortable talking about. Gangs, the welfare state, fatherless homes, shitty public schools controlled by teachers unions in low income areas. Basically, a general lack of responsibility brought on by shitty political policy. There’s been enough studies to explain the effects of these factors. It will put anyone in a bad spot, regardless of race (See Appalachia). Spineless “journalists” are just afraid to talk about them. They’ll get more clicks, views and likes with a race war they can’t prove exists than uncomfortable facts that will hurt peoples’ feelings.
 
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Cosmos

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It boils down to a few topics that people get uncomfortable talking about. Gangs, the welfare state, fatherless homes, shitty public schools controlled by teachers unions in low income areas. There’s been enough studies to explain the effects of these factors. It will put anyone in a bad spot, regardless of race. Spineless “journalists” are just afraid to talk about them. They’ll get more clicks, views and likes with a race war they can’t prove exists than uncomfortable facts that will hurt peoples’ feelings.

I would only add spineless politicians.

One thing we now for sure. Biden's gun EO wouldn't have saved this young man's life. It's about "savings lives" is it not? I thought I heard that somewhere.
 
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CDW3333

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Yes it is because the officers don't know that yet, people have possibly forgotten. So it is probable cause. There's the possibility of some type of receipt or printout you can show.
So yeah . They had a reason to stop him, when they found he had a little warrant they had a reason to detain him. Any negligence or mistake in the arrest has no bearing on whether or not the arrest was justified or not.
You're not paying attention.

There was a large backlog in the state taking care of expired tags. Therefore, an expired tag is evidence of nothing.

Further, the police do not have the right to stop at random. Delaware v. Prouse, 440 U.S. 648 (1979).
 
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Jason1743

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No it doesn't. Stop acting like a GD vigilante. If it comes out that drugs are what killed Floyd, then the officer didn't kill him. You're an educated person, act like it. I've been very clear in my beliefs regarding Chauvin, I believe he'll get 2nd degree murder charge, 3rd, at least. To say video is everything is absolutely nonsense.
I am far from a vigilante. Everything about the George Floyd murder video has been reinforced by sworn testimony. Multiple members of the Minneapolis PD have testified that Chauvin acted against standard practices. Multiple physicians have testified it wasn't drugs that killed Floyd, but hypoxia caused by a knee to the neck for over 9 minutes. Dereck Chauvin isn't just guilty. He is unbelievably guilty. The only question is whether he gets convicted of manslaughter, murder two or some other charge.
 

interrobang

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And all sworn testimony has been from the prosecution witnesses. Of course they're going to say drugs didn't kill him.
 

Jason1743

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Drugs did not kill George Floyd. There have already been hours of testimony on that, including today.

You need to stop your pretending, or willful ignorance, or whatever it is.
You don't need to tell anyone, anything. The defense hasn't even presented their case. You need to stop acting like you know wth you're talking about. I'll wait for all the facts of the case to be presented. Or do you have a problem with that as well? See, that's what honest people do. That's what people that believe in due process do. They wait for all the evidence. Want to try your idiocy, again?

While we're at it. Go find me a lawyer that would ever argue, in a court of law, we don't need to see all the evidence in front of a judge and jury. Care to continue?
[/QUOTE]
I can wait for the defense. It ain't gonna change the facts.
 

Jason1743

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It is not my intention to get into a long back and forth on this thread. I posted a comment but since you specifically tagged me I will respond.

There are some obvious times when the police screw up. The Elijah McClain case here in Aurora is an obvious one. There is no way he should have died. He was just walking down the street and died by the hands of the police and paramedics who I believe administered the lethal dose of Ketamine.

That said most of these cases talked about in the public are not like that. While the police are held to standard of perfection, and I agree the should not make mistakes, the victim has no accountability regarding their behavior. The person being arrested can be committing a crime. They can be passing counterfeit bills. They can have a warrant out for their arrest. They can steal a car and drive it down the road at a high rate of speed and crash it. They can carjack another car sitting at a stoplight. They can fight with the police office trying to arrest him, throw punches, try to grab his gun, spit on him. It doesn't matter. When it comes to the person engaging with the officer anything goes. There is no personal accountability involved. I have to wonder at what point does the person who was shot or injured and the public defending him think there needs to be some accountability regarding their behavior? On that there is nothing but silence from the Wokesters.

But that's not even my issue and wasn't what my original post was about. It was about the reaction, riots or whatever you want to call them, to these shootings. Regarding that I have no sympathy. There is no reason to threaten and injury people and destroy property in these cases. But now there is a new normal. Every time there is a shooting of a black person the word is out. Hit the streets. Break into the shoe store. Loot CVS and set it on fire. Block traffic in the streets and freeways. Stop some random car driving down the road and start jumping up and down on the hood, etc. I have no sympathy for people participating in this activity and none for the enablers who defend them. My hope is next time this happens and someone gets their car stopped by a mob and all the windows broken it will be owned by someone who thinks like you. Will they or you learn anything? Doubtful.
I do not condone rioting for any reason. I Looting the CVS and setting it on fire is not acceptable. Police, like everyone else are entitled to make honest mistakes. Unfortunately there are far too many mistakes being made and there are far too many unqualified police officers on the streets.
 

Jason1743

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You see Jason this is where people like you, clowns, lose people like me.

There is no evidence he was pulled over for being black.

He was pepper sprayed and handcuffed for failure to comply.

Your feelings do not change facts. It probably feels good to you to think of yourself as some woke individual, but you do not have facts to support your feelings.

Police departments keep statistics on who and why they pull people over. Go do the research and prove his color had anything to do with his stop.

LdN
Awe, I thought we were friends.
The cop was so correct in his actions that he was fired by his local police department for this incident.
 

BicyclePete

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The guy was fleeing the scene. The cops shot at him while he was driving away. Not justifiable, In fact the cops created a more dangerous situation by shooting the guy while he was driving and his car plowed into an uninvolved motorist.
You don't really know anything about what was going on except what the democrats and the media, but I repeat myself, are telling you. So why don't you just close the pie hole for a few minutes and see what's really happening? Isn't that a novel idea?