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RBY vs Spencer Lee

I didn’t compare there careers, I compared the admiration they received from fans.

Context is king. The sentence right before I compared them I stated David Taylor can still be your favorite wrestler even though he doesn’t necessarily have the accolades that other wrestlers in your school have.

I’m not saying anything bad about Taylor. And I don’t care. how credible I am to you.
I don't care that you don't care. And I don't think you said anything bad about Taylor. I just think that you're underestimating his dominance compared to the PSU 3 timers. Btw, Taylor scored more points for his team than Dake did for Cornell in the tourney that Dake won.

Btw, just imagine a PSU fan saying anything perceived as being negative about Lee on HR, lol.
 
I don't care that you don't care. And I don't think you said anything bad about Taylor. I just think that you're underestimating his dominance compared to the PSU 3 timers. Btw, Taylor scored more points for his team than Dake did for Cornell in the tourney that Dake won.
That’s not at all surprising. Taylor scored points. His main fault in my argument is Penn States historic run of incredible wrestlers.

Anyway, good talking wrestling.
 
I’ll give you the majority of guys you listed. I know you all loved Taylor, he was awesome, but he’s only a two time champ. He was dominant but I think that leaves him out of this discussion.

Zane, Bo, Nolf, and Ruth. They are all great. Nolf was a personal favorite of mine.
Generational is such a strong standard. Cael Sanderson was generational. I'd go Dan Gable and even he only had 2 titles.
 
Gable wrestled varsity for three years, and only has 1 loss. I think we can agree those are different scenarios. We all know Gables story, he represented more than just victories on the mat.

David Taylor was great, I said so before. This is just my opinion, you don’t have to agree with it. I think the other four Mcpat mentioned were better collegiate wrestlers, based on dominance and winning.

When ranking PSU all timers March Success has to play into it. Taylor can still be your favorite wrestler without everyone thinking he’s the best to ever lace them up at PSU. See Mark Ironside for an Iowa comparison. He’s beloved, and he was great, but he comes in near the bottom of any top ten list imo.
I don't think the point was to rank PSU wrestlers. The point (I think) was to show that even generational wrestlers lose matches. So saying one guy is generational and one guy isn't in a hypothetical matchup doesn't really mean much. Myles Martin was a very good, but not quite generational wrestler. And he beat Bo Nickal twice.
 
I listed Dan Gable and then the list got confusing, so I left it at Cael, LOL. Looking forward to 22/23 season. Ready for another run to a title.
 
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I thought I saw it somewhere but can't find it. Is there an updated list of top NCAA tourney scorers? This only goes thru 2018 <link>

Edit: ok, I ran some #s out of curiosity. Penn State's top NCAA points scorers:
1) Taylor 99
2) Nolf 98
3) Nickal 95.5
4) Ruth 94.5
5) Zain 93.5

Also, with Spencer currently at 76, if he wins the tourney and gets the same range of points as his first 3 wins, he'll finish somewhere from 100.5 (4th overall) to 103 (3rd overall).
 
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If this happens I have a 100 saying you’re wrong. Rby is a damn good wrestler, Spencer is generational. He’s improved his cardio a lot since his freshman year, we all know about his top game, he’s a great scrambler, but most of the time he doesn’t have to scramble because his offense is to diverse and his hand fighting and position are top level.

I’ve seen RBY throw up some sluggish performances in the past where he struggles to get offense going, I’ve never seen Spencer not get more than one takedown, (aside from his 40 seconds techs) outside of his true freshamn year against Nathan Tomasello. I see a 7-2 or 7-3 win for Spence, and that’s me being modest in the rivals backyard.

I know we’re going to sing our own guys praises but this is Spencer Freaking Lee we’re talking about.
If the match happens I will match your 100. With such certainty of the level of dominance are you giving me those 4 or 5 points (4.5?), or odds (4:1?) or are we wagering straight up?
 
Could it possibly be the best 125lber ever against probably the best 133lber ever? Would love to see it in a dual. Won’t happen tho. Id like to see how much bigger RBY really is. Id give Lee 6 wins out of 10 matchups at the same weight. In one matchup it’s a toss up and def no tech happening lol.
This is all assuming Lee is healthy

when Yianni was 141 I think RBY could of went up and gave him a lot of trouble.
 
Spencer Lee is a great wrestler. No doubt. But if he’s “generational” then so are all the following PSU wrestlers with more wins and fewer losses:

David Taylor
Ed Ruth
Zain Retherford
Bo Nickal
Jason Nolf

And watch out for Aaron Brooks and Carter Starocci.

I’m not dissing Lee. He’s great. Like a number of other greats, though.
Generation at PSU = 2 years
Generation at Iowa = 20 years (scratch that...25 years)
 
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All 3 losses to National champions and 2 of them to a 4 timer..
Beloved has nothing to do with it.
A valid argument is National Titles are worth more than losses.
Keep in the spirit that this is a wrestling board and we are supposed to discuss wrestling.
Notice you aren't being run out on a rail, the worst comment is questioning your credibility in a not so shitty way.
 
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Spencer Lee is a great wrestler. No doubt. But if he’s “generational” then so are all the following PSU wrestlers with more wins and fewer losses:

David Taylor
Ed Ruth
Zain Retherford
Bo Nickal
Jason Nolf

And watch out for Aaron Brooks and Carter Starocci.

I’m not dissing Lee. He’s great. Like a number of other greats, though.

Olympic Gold Medalist Gable Stevenson was from the same recruiting year so was Lee even the best wrestler of his graduating class?
 
Olympic Gold Medalist Gable Stevenson was from the same recruiting year so was Lee even the best wrestler of his graduating class?
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I'm curious as to why you are ignoring a FFT for RBY when if you watch that match RBY absolutely destroyed and thoroughly humiliated Desanto. Here is the match and after you watch please explain your logic.

It is hard to watch that and not cringe with embarrassment for DeSanto. Kid knew he was getting pinned and faked injury. It would have helped his career so much more to get pinned and use that for motivation rather than perpetrate that farce.
 
It is hard to watch that and not cringe with embarrassment for DeSanto. Kid knew he was getting pinned and faked injury. It would have helped his career so much more to get pinned and use that for motivation rather than perpetrate that farce.
I honestly don't think he was faking an injury to avoid getting pinned. I think he just had a little mental moment there and panicked. The result was the same as faking, but I don't think his head was even in a place to plan that out.
 
Again - no one is trying to put Spencer Lee down. He is great. It’s the part where Iowa fans call him “generational” that illicits these responses.

When I think of “generational” wrestlers, they usually have more than one conference championship.
 
I didn’t compare there careers, I compared the admiration they received from fans.

Context is king. The sentence right before I compared them I stated David Taylor can still be your favorite wrestler even though he doesn’t necessarily have the accolades that other wrestlers in your school have.

I’m not saying anything bad about Taylor. And I don’t care. how credible I am to you.
the-face-you-make-don-t-care-meme.jpg
 
I honestly don't think he was faking an injury to avoid getting pinned. I think he just had a little mental moment there and panicked. The result was the same as faking, but I don't think his head was even in a place to plan that out.
For me it’s kind of a distinction without a difference. You are right that he was not mentally prepared to handle adversity and panicked. It is kind of like the concept of premeditation. It never made sense to me that we punish someone who plans to commit a murder more harshly than someone who loses their shit and kills someone else. Dead is dead.

Somewhat related to this, it is interesting to speculate what DeSanto’s career would have looked like had he gone to PSU instead of Iowa. In a lot of ways the Brands were the worst possible thing for a kid like DeSanto. The kid needed to be taught discipline and self-control, not to be more of a caveman.
 
If the match happens I will match your 100. With such certainty of the level of dominance are you giving me those 4 or 5 points (4.5?), or odds (4:1?) or are we wagering straight up?
Im with you Nit, Little Spencer has never met someone as fast as RBY, let alone on fake knees.I’d go strait up CONFIDENTLY.

#banthebrace
 
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As I said over at HR, my new favorite cesspool take is now “X is a better wrestler, Y is only better at doing all of the things a wrestler has to do to win a wrestling match.”
 
If this happens I have a 100 saying you’re wrong. Rby is a damn good wrestler, Spencer is generational. He’s improved his cardio a lot since his freshman year, we all know about his top game, he’s a great scrambler, but most of the time he doesn’t have to scramble because his offense is to diverse and his hand fighting and position are top level.

I’ve seen RBY throw up some sluggish performances in the past where he struggles to get offense going, I’ve never seen Spencer not get more than one takedown, (aside from his 40 seconds techs) outside of his true freshamn year against Nathan Tomasello. I see a 7-2 or 7-3 win for Spence, and that’s me being modest in the rivals backyard.

I know we’re going to sing our own guys praises but this is Spencer Freaking Lee we’re talking about.
Your right about RBY being sluggish some matches. RBY will acknowledge that too. He will also acknowledge that some matches he really “isn’t into it”, those matches against a middling wrestler where PSU is winning in a runaway. I think if RBY and Lee wrestled, no doubt RBY is into it. Plus RBY would have the PSU coaching staff implementing a strategy to negate Lee’s strength.

We are still waiting for the Brands boys developing a strategy to defeat RBY.
 
Again - no one is trying to put Spencer Lee down. He is great. It’s the part where Iowa fans call him “generational” that illicits these responses.

When I think of “generational” wrestlers, they usually have more than one conference championship.
When Warnerov takes the mat you will finally see generational
 
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We all win if this happens. Let’s be honest, Iowa getting smoked like a joint in the dual. Spencer and RBY are both humble champions who love to compete. I wouldn’t be surprised if it happened. And my money is on our boy in a FUN bout.
I seriously doubt it will happen at all, but if it does, it will be in the dual. Lee won't move up for the season to try to beat RBY to win the NCAA's. That would be foolish, but depending on how the season is looking, there may be motivation to do it for the dual. I think Ayala can wrestle a dual or two now and still keep his shirt in tact, right? If Iowa thinks they need a hail mary to beat PSU and having Ayala-Lee try to sweep Robbie-RBY instead of a guaranteed split of the weights with Lee at 125 and RBY at 133, then they may just do it.

That would easily be the match of the year to watch. My heart wants RBY but my brain says Lee would have a small advantage. It would depend on whether Lee could get a quick takedown and build a little lead early. If the first ends 0-0, the advantage swings back to RBY later in the match, but Lee's first minute is probably the best I've ever seen.
 
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Random4598375 said:
but Lee's first minute is probably the best I've ever seen.
My wife says the same about me.

I wasn’t suggesting Spencer would go 133 for NCAA. Rather, the dual is out of reach either way, so Iowa not risking a win there by bumping Spencer up.
 
All 3 losses to National champions and 2 of them to a 4 timer..
Beloved has nothing to do with it.
A valid argument is National Titles are worth more than losses.
Keep in the spirit that this is a wrestling board and we are supposed to discuss wrestling.
Notice you aren't being run out on a rail, the worst comment is questioning your credibility in a not so shitty way.

I should've added "on this issue" after "credibility" in that statement. Because @HawkFan1986 is a good poster. He just doesn't know what he's talking about where David Taylor is concerned. 🙂
 
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Again - no one is trying to put Spencer Lee down. He is great. It’s the part where Iowa fans call him “generational” that illicits these responses.

When I think of “generational” wrestlers, they usually have more than one conference championship.
Lee? He has two already and should add a third this year.

Lee is definitely a generational talent. Taylor is too, though. His gold medal sealed the deal on that.
 
I seriously doubt it will happen at all, but if it does, it will be in the dual. Lee won't move up for the season to try to beat RBY to win the NCAA's. That would be foolish, but depending on how the season is looking, there may be motivation to do it for the dual. I think Ayala can wrestle a dual or two now and still keep his shirt in tact, right? If Iowa thinks they need a hail mary to beat PSU and having Ayala-Lee try to sweep Robbie-RBY instead of a guaranteed split of the weights with Lee at 125 and RBY at 133, then they may just do it.

That would easily be the match of the year to watch. My heart wants RBY but my brain says Lee would have a small advantage. It would depend on whether Lee could get a quick takedown and build a little lead early. If the first ends 0-0, the advantage swings back to RBY later in the match, but Lee's first minute is probably the best I've ever seen.
I have trouble with projecting how Spencer will do against elite competition because I don't think we've seen him against elite competition in a while.

Spencer takes down and turns virtually everyone he gets his hands on, but he hasn't had to face anyone on the RBY/Daton Fix (or even Desanto) level in a few years.
 
Lee had the good fortune of the bracket breaking the right way and missing Rivera at nationals. No doubt he might have won anyway, but Rivera seemed to have the gameplan down pat. Maintain distance in neutral and push the match to the third where I think everyone can agree Spencer is simply not the same guy as the first two periods, by significant margin.

Cael & RBY are the best at gameplanning. RBY is one of the most dynamic wrestlers in the nation, but can completely shut things down and have us all scratching or heads when he needs to. One thing is for certain, neither wrestler has ever gone toe to toe with anyone with a similar skill set.
 
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